View Full Version : How to transfer a firearm into a trust
I own a pistol that I bought as an individual on a 4473 at a gunshop. I now want to SBR this pistol. I have a trust with myself and my wife listed as responsible parties. What if any background check etc. needs to be completed in order to transfer this into a trust? When does this occur? (before or after getting an approved form 1)?
Wouldn't you just do another transfer to trust with yourself as trustee?
Great-Kazoo
12-13-2018, 19:27
File a Form 1 using the Trust as the entity doing it, that's it. There's no transfer of a non-NFA item as guns are not registered in CO, for now. Nothing really special or difficult to fill the F1 out. Here's one of the many links on line to walk you through the process. Technically you as trustee are still the same person who purchased it as a pistol. Legally in CO you will probably want to find a friendly FFL who will transfer the individual item to the trust on 4473's. There is no BGC they have to do, but will probably charge you x $$ to do the paperwork.
https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/form1/
“Legally in CO you will probably want to find a friendly FFL who will transfer the individual item to the trust on 4473's.”
Before or after Form 1 is approved? If after, does above process have to be done before converting firearm to a SBR?
“Legally in CO you will probably want to find a friendly FFL who will transfer the individual item to the trust on 4473's.”
Before or after Form 1 is approved? If after, does above process have to be done before converting firearm to a SBR?
Before you create the SBR. Filing of form doesn't matter
File a Form 1 using the Trust as the entity doing it, that's it. There's no transfer of a non-NFA item as guns are not registered in CO, for now. Nothign really special or difficult to fill the F1 out. Here's one of the many links on line to walk you through the process. Technically you as trustee are still the same person who purchased it as a pistol. Legally in CO you will probably want to find a friendly FFL who will transfer the individual item to the trust on 4473's. There is no BGC they have to do, but will probably charge you x $$ to do the paperwork.
https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/form1/
But isn't the trust a separate legal entity, and in a role as a trustee isn't said person then, somehow, legally different in that context?
If so, wouldn't this necessitate a transfer?
Moving outside of the OP and speaking generally:
If others exist on the trust who do not meet the onus of "gifting" or otherwise sharing possession of a firearm (non-family), would their presence on the trust necessitate a BGC since possession over the specified legal period for borrowing (10 days?) is legally a transfer... or something?
If it's as easy as writing in the serials in the trust paperwork, I know what I'm doing tonight. lol.
Great-Kazoo
12-13-2018, 21:57
Before you create the SBR. Filing of form doesn't matter
No you have to wait to do the BGC (again legally) because the gun is under an individuals name. Once the F1 is approved the gun now becomes property / owned by the trust. If your spouse is on the trust, you as well as her must do a BGC because................Individual transferred to a Trust. Remember the names are now different. Original 4473 said RTR. New owners are RTR Trust. Kind of confusing. .
But isn't the trust a separate legal entity, and in a role as a trustee isn't said person then, somehow, legally different in that context?
If so, wouldn't this necessitate a transfer? Yes
Moving outside of the OP and speaking generally:
If others exist on the trust who do not meet the onus of "gifting" or otherwise sharing possession of a firearm (non-family), would their presence on the trust necessitate a BGC since possession over the specified legal period for borrowing (10 days?) is legally a transfer... or something?
If it's as easy as writing in the serials in the trust paperwork, I know what I'm doing tonight. lol.
Yes everyone on the trust has to do 2 things.
1: Complete a F1 in their name, listed as a CO-TRUSTEE
2: Once approval is received. do a 4473 BGC.
Why would you do a 4473 with a BC when NFA branch has just done a BC on the trustees?
Great-Kazoo
12-14-2018, 23:44
Why would you do a 4473 with a BC when NFA branch has just done a BC on the trustees?
That's for the F1 or F4 approval, from the feds. The FFL BGC is done as a formality (for a Form 4) before the item is taken from the FFL, since it was in their books. No one calls it in, you fill it out and go home.
You asked What if any background check etc. needs to be completed in order to transfer this into a trust? When does this occur?
You have questions better answered by a competent firearms attorney, since there seems to be some misunderstanding what's needed when going from 1 name/ party to another, as per CO law.
I've done this a few times. I'm also not a lawyer. You should consult the lawyer that drew up your trust for a definitive opinion.
1. Submit the Form 1 and wait for the stamp.
2. Transfer the handgun to the trust via a 4473. This is the complex part. The transfer is NOT from you to you, or from you to you and your wife or whatever. It is from you to the trust. This is NOT an exception as stated in CRS 18-12-112 (6) (b) (the spouse/children/sibling/etc. exceptions), so this requires a background check (BGC) for EVERY responsible party (RP) in the trust. In your case, you and your wife.
Assuming you're the main contact, your BGC information (NICS and Colorado transaction numbers) is entered on the 4473. Have the FFL print out copies of all BGCs that come back showing clearance for you and your wife and hold onto those with the same level of diligence as your stamp.
In addition, you need to give the FFL a written statement saying you're acting on behalf of the trust and the property is being acquired for the trust. See the very top left of page "4 of 6" on the October 2016 form 4473 for this requirement. I actually have every RP of my trust fill out this form and again, I keep copies of them with my stamps. The FFL keeps the original(s). I'll stick a redacted version of my form at the end of this post. Note that almost no FFLs and very few lawyers know about this statement being required.
If you bought the item as a "handgun", it transfers as a handgun into the trust. "Other firearm", then other firearm. "Long gun", then long gun. THE EXCEPTION IS IF YOU BOUGHT IT AS AN "OTHER FIREARM", BUILT IT UP AS A HANDGUN **AND THEN** DOCUMENTED THE FACT THAT NOW IT'S A HANDGUN, SUCH AS POSTING THAT IT'S A HANDGUN IN AN INTERNET FORUM (hint, hint), in which case it should transfer as a handgun. If you transfer more than one handgun into the trust all at once, the multiple handgun crap comes into play. All my SBRs-to-be were originally purchased as an "Other firearm" and I did several at once as "Other firearm" into the trust on one set of BGCs for all RPs and without multiple handgun reporting required. If you CAN transfer multiple NFA items into your trust all at once, I suggest you do so to minimize work for everyone.
Note that some people promote removing everyone from the trust but yourself, doing the transfer requiring only a BGC for you, then adding everyone back in. This is beyond my comfort level in that I think it's a great way to get an all-expenses paid trip to Club Fed if you appear on anyone's radar. But people ARE doing just this and they're comfortable with doing it -- I'll let them defend their position.
3. Once the trust owns the firearm you can then, and only then, convert it to an SBR.
4. Get a warm and fuzzy that all this crap is stopping the gang bangers and terrorists from getting NFA items.
Note I didn't say at a Holiday Inn last night.
O2
My redacted acquisition statement, assuming your trust name is "IN GOD WE":
FORM 4473
ACQUISITION STATEMENT
This statement is provided pursuant to the Notices, Instructions and Definitions section of ATF Form 4473. It is specifically offered to satisfy the instructions given for Section A, Question 1.
I am an authorized representative of the IN GOD WE TRUST in that I am presently serving as Trustee for IN GOD WE TRUST.
The item(s) described in Section D of the aforementioned Form 4473 is being acquired for the use of and will be the property of IN GOD WE TRUST.
The name and address of the Trust is as follows:
IN GOD WE TRUST
1776 My Street
My Town, CO 00000
I execute this statement under penalties of perjury.
Dated: ___________________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________
My Name, Trustee
IN GOD WE TRUST
Yes everyone on the trust has to do 2 things.
1: Complete a F1 in their name, listed as a CO-TRUSTEE
2: Once approval is received. do a 4473 BGC.
Only one F1 is submitted, so no, everyone does not have to do a Form 1. Only one Form 1. Box 7 is signed "My Name, Trustee" and box 8 has the same, printed. Only one repsonsible party for the trust need appear in Box 7 and 8. "Authorized official" (instructions within box 8) is singular.
O2
Great-Kazoo
12-16-2018, 00:54
Only one F1 is submitted, so no, everyone does not have to do a Form 1. Only one Form 1. Box 7 is signed "My Name, Trustee" and box 8 has the same, printed. Only one repsonsible party for the trust need appear in Box 7 and 8. "Authorized official" (instructions within box 8) is singular.
O2
I think we agree on some, possibly disagree or interpreting it differently. However we both agree the OP should consult his attorney. Which he should do, if not already in touch with them.
https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/form1/
At the bottom of page 2 You should sign the document as a trustee “Your name / Trustee” or “Your Name as Trustee” and the date you signed.
15 Is the number of Responsible Persons in the Trust, Generally this is the number of trustees.
16 List up to 8 responsible persons, additional responsible persons can be attached on a separate sheet.
I think we agree on some, possibly disagree or interpreting it differently. However we both agree the OP should consult his attorney. Which he should do, if not already in touch with them.
Well I'll be dipped. All my Form 1s are the September, 2007 version, so my information when it comes to the Form 1 is not current. So thank you Great-Kazoo, I'm now aware of that change!
I do still stand behind my response to the OP on how the transfer to the trust happens in Colorado, though. (BGCs, etc.)
Note that though the Gun Trust Lawer blog is a good resource, he's from Florida, so he doesn't cover Colorado-specific issues.
O2
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