Saiga 12 Pistol?

[bellavite1]

http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q358/bellavite1/SANY0631.jpg
So, this is my new toy, a Draco AK pistol.
Which makes me wonder...
Does anybody know about a Saiga 12 based pistol?
With a shallow rifling in the barrel (not unlike the Taurus Judge), it would be a very compact,magazine feed,semi-auto,non-AOW stamp requiring 12 gauge shotgun http://www.primalrights.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif .
I cannot believe nobody came out with it.
And, just in case some manufacturer is reading this, how many of you would buy it?
P.S.
I am going to post this on several boards.
Maybe somebody out there has an answer ...

[Batteriesnare]

I thought that if it didn't have rifling, it had to be registered, which is probably why it hasn't been pursued.

[micah360]

post it here... you'll get an answer in less then a minute I bet.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showforum=2

[DeusExMachina]

If you'd be converting a former full size shotgun, I think it would be an AOW like a Serbu.

If you could get Saiga or someone else to produce pistol-only, 12ga receivers it would probably be legal. I don't think there's much of a market for a semi-auto tiny shotgun, though..

Shooting 7.62x39 in that small package must be "interesting". :)

[MichiganMilitia]

So does a SBS just require a NFA tax stamp? A 12-inch saiga 12 might be very effective for home defense... [Coffee]

[Batteriesnare]

So does a SBS just require a NFA tax stamp? A 12-inch saiga 12 might be very effective for home defense... [Coffee]

Yes.

[Irving]

1) Why would anyone want a rifled barrel shotgun? That's silly.
2) You have one choice, and that is to cut the barrel and make it an SBS. In order for it to be an AOW, it would have to have been built as a pistol. While I don't think that is illegal, I doubt anyone makes a semi-auto shotgun in pistol configuration from the factory.
3) I think I know what foxtrot is talking about now. There are limits to the size of round that can go in a rifled barrel, which is .5" I think. So you'd never be able to have a gun with a rifled barrel large enough to fit a 12 gauge. Not that you'd want one anyway.

[Irving]

If you'd be converting a former full size shotgun, I think it would be an AOW like a Serbu.

If you could get Saiga or someone else to produce pistol-only, 12ga receivers it would probably be legal. I don't think there's much of a market for a semi-auto tiny shotgun, though..



In order to be an AOW, it has to be produced on a pistol only receiver like you said, and you can never attach a butt stock. Also, if Saiga produced those receivers, they'd have to be registered as AOW, and there is not much of a market for that.


You know all those Mossberg pistol shotguns with all the retarded things attached to the barrels? Like the stupid huge flash hiders that are only for mall ninjas? That is because they made a bunch of AOWs, but there was no market so they attached all that junk to the barrel to sell to the regular mall ninjas instead.

[MichiganMilitia]

I like your new avatar Sturtle! [Tooth]

[Irving]

It seemed....fitting.

[ryanek9freak]

1) Why would anyone want a rifled barrel shotgun? That's silly.
2) You have one choice, and that is to cut the barrel and make it an SBS. In order for it to be an AOW, it would have to have been built as a pistol. While I don't think that is illegal, I doubt anyone makes a semi-auto shotgun in pistol configuration from the factory.
3) I think I know what foxtrot is talking about now. There are limits to the size of round that can go in a rifled barrel, which is .5" I think. So you'd never be able to have a gun with a rifled barrel large enough to fit a 12 gauge. Not that you'd want one anyway.

I have a rifled slug barrel for my 870 for deer hunting.

[Irving]

You and I both know that he wasn't talking about shooting Sabot slugs.

[ryanek9freak]

Of course, but still, I bet a deer slug would F someone up real good, if you had to use one.

[DeusExMachina]

In order to be an AOW, it has to be produced on a pistol only receiver like you said, and you can never attach a butt stock. Also, if Saiga produced those receivers, they'd have to be registered as AOW, and there is not much of a market for that.


You know all those Mossberg pistol shotguns with all the retarded things attached to the barrels? Like the stupid huge flash hiders that are only for mall ninjas? That is because they made a bunch of AOWs, but there was no market so they attached all that junk to the barrel to sell to the regular mall ninjas instead.

So Serbu makes those Mossberg Maverick/500/Rem 870 receivers for the Super Shorty?

[GreenScoutII]

1) Why would anyone want a rifled barrel shotgun? That's silly.
There are limits to the size of round that can go in a rifled barrel, which is .5" I think. So you'd never be able to have a gun with a rifled barrel large enough to fit a 12

Not necessarily.

12 gauge rifled barrels are quite popular for deer hunting back east where they have restrictions on rifle calibers due to population density.

[ryanek9freak]

I grew up in Ohio hunting white tails. I'm all too familiar with having to kill them with a 12 gauge slug. We have it too easy here with the rifles and such.

[bellavite1]

So, let me sum it up:
1) it is possible to have a legal rifled 12ga barrel (Mossberg Slugsters).
2)in order to avoid the whole AOW bullshit it would have to be produced from scratch as a pistol,not as an assembled weapon (I take from your answers that nobody did it).
What makes a shotgun a shotgun?
Is it the rifling or like you guys mentioned it is the kind of ammunition it is chambered for (Judge chambered for 45C and "accepting" .410 shells)?
3)Does getting an AOW stamp imply getting on some sort of "government list"?
Is it a one time $200 thing or is it to be payed each year?
Who can assist in the paperwork process should I decide to cut down the barrel of a Saiga?
Would it affect cycling?
Why do the Tromix Saigas cost that much?
And finally,for those who wander why would I want this,remember when you would do something just for the fun of it?[Ban3]

[Irving]

None of what you said matters at all, as long as the barrel is over 18".
If you have a barrel length of less than 18" the gun is going to be either a SBS ($200 tax stamp) or an AOW ($200 tax stamp). There is no way around that.

Either way it is a one time $200 for the stamp.

Yes it will effect cycling because it will effect your gas tubes, as far as I know.
Tromix are expensive because they change some parts and install a setting switch for the gas tube so you can instantly switch between settings for different loads.

I can see why you'd want a short barreled deer rifle shotgun, BUT, in my opinion, the whole point of a shotgun is for the spread (even as small as it is at close range). It sounds like if you wanted a short barreled shotgun with a rifled barrel, you just kind of want to do like a poor man's shorty .50 cal.

There are some differences between AOW and SBS, like being able to take the AOW out of state without notice, and after the intial $200, the AOW is only a $5 stamp each time it is transfered after the initial creation. AOW are kind of rare though.

I tried to answer all your questions, let me know if anything is unclear.

[micah360]

I had a Tromix S-12 a few years ago... it was worth every penny.