View Full Version : AR-15 round better than a .30-.30
ChillerDr
12-27-2018, 19:57
So apparently the 300 Blackout has been upstaged by the Wilson Combat's 300 HAM'R cartridge. Anyone seen the new WC "Ranch Rifle" yet? How awesome is it?
Eh. My 6.5 Grendel would kick a 30-30's ass.
ChillerDr
12-27-2018, 20:23
Just wondering if the 300 HAM'R is all that?
Just wondering if the 300 HAM'R is all that?
Sorry, I haven't actually heard of it yet. I'll definitely Google it. I'm all about keeping up with technology.
beast556
12-27-2018, 20:25
I'll stick with my 5$ a box 5.56mm.
Haven't heard of it yet. There can only be so much case capacity and so much bullet weight, so I can't imagine much of a difference compared to anything else with similar bullet weights. Have any specs?
ChillerDr
12-27-2018, 21:32
The 300 HAM'R was developed from the .223 Rem. The neck has been expanded to .30 caliber. There are bullets from 110 to 150 grains. The case is 1.603" with a 30 degree neck angle.
ChillerDr
12-27-2018, 21:36
https://www.wilsoncombat.com/300-hamr/
Interesting. Sounds like a longer case than .300 blk and a little bit lighter bullet.
It's kind of crazy how often the gun industry relates things to hog hunting currently.
theGinsue
12-27-2018, 21:53
The 300 HAM'R was developed from the .223 Rem. The neck has been expanded to .30 caliber. There are bullets from 110 to 150 grains. The case is 1.603" with a 30 degree neck angle.
Interesting cartridge. My problem is that there have been so many new cartridges created over the last 15 years that I'm starting to wonder "why" and what niche the new round covers that wasn't adequately covered by an existing round. It's hard to afford enough rounds in my existing caliber needs to consider digging myself into a deeper hole.
It's kind of crazy how often the gun industry relates things to hog hunting currently.
Right? I keep hearing reports about how Texas is just getting overrun by feral hogs yet I can't find anyone who'll let me come hunt the hogs on their land without charging me for the pleasure.
They're charging cus they are trying to meet the bill for their property taxes :D
I went a few weeks ago looking for hogs at a friends place, didnt see any.
I'm going to try to find a good deal on an automatic feeder to bait them in.
And as far as oddball calibers, go 45 raptor and get it over with.
Texas doesn't actually have a feral hog problem. Those places that charge to hunt stock those ranches with pigs.
Comparing modern rounds to a .30-30 isn't all that impressive, nor is the ability to kill farm animals. That said, I have a .300blk and am looking very strongly at 6.5 Grendel. I'd probably hunt coyote to antelope with either just for fun, but wouldn't run around telling everyone it was some great hunting round.
I went a few weeks ago looking for hogs at a friends place, didnt see any.
I'm going to try to find a good deal on an automatic feeder to bait them in.
And as far as oddball calibers, go 45 raptor and get it over with.
He needs to bring them in on the back of a truck like all the other ranches with hogs do.
He needs to bring them in on the back of a truck like all the other ranches with hogs do.
His are actually wild. They keep draining his gravity deer feeders, and since we works on the oil rigs out in west TX, he cant keep them full to pull in deer with his schedule.
My wife's brother in law has access to properties via his employer that have wild pigs as well. In the areas I have been, they are there, but not quite as numerous as they appear on youtube.
If he's interested in actually getting rid of them, trapping is the only answer since you can't kill them fast enough by shooting them.
Great-Kazoo
12-27-2018, 23:45
Texas doesn't actually have a feral hog problem. Those places that charge to hunt stock those ranches with pigs.
Comparing modern rounds to a .30-30 isn't all that impressive, nor is the ability to kill farm animals. That said, I have a .300blk and am looking very strongly at 6.5 Grendel. I'd probably hunt coyote to antelope with either just for fun, but wouldn't run around telling everyone it was some great hunting round.
Having shot (a lot) one of the locals 6.5 with a 16? or 18" bbl, i am impressed. If i didn't have a few bolt action 30 cal's and the 6.5C i'd be all over the 6.5G. The AR's recoil was next to nothing, impressive accuracy, with easy 2nd & 3rd round follow up. Ammo's not cheap, yet
Having shot (a lot) one of the locals 6.5 with a 16? or 18" bbl, i am impressed. If i didn't have a few bolt action 30 cal's and the 6.5C i'd be all over the 6.5G. The AR's recoil was next to nothing, impressive accuracy, with easy 2nd & 3rd round follow up. Ammo's not cheap, yet
Meh. Twenty-six cents a round isn?t horribly expensive.
https://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=AW65FMJ100&name=WPA+(WOLF+Performance+Arms)+6.5+Grendel+100gr n+FMJ+20rd+Box&groupid=247
Great-Kazoo
12-28-2018, 09:45
Meh. Twenty-six cents a round isn?t horribly expensive.
https://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=AW65FMJ100&name=WPA+(WOLF+Performance+Arms)+6.5+Grendel+100gr n+FMJ+20rd+Box&groupid=247
was shooting the hornady
was shooting the hornady
That's mostly all I've used so far as well. I'm curious to try the cheap stuff though.
What I need to do is quit being lazy and buy a set of dies.
1-15” twist rate. No thanks WC. I’ll stick to my 1-8” Satern barrels and shoot 200gr subs. I don’t get it. This trend of “new” calibers is getting pretty stupid.
kidicarus13
12-28-2018, 13:12
1-15? twist rate. No thanks WC. I?ll stick to my 1-8? Satern barrels and shoot 200gr subs. I don?t get it. This trend of ?new? calibers is getting pretty stupid.It's more about hype and $$$ and less about practical uses. "Hey, look at this awesome new cartridge I created."
How does the HAMR vary from their 7.62x40 WT (which has all but disappeared from the general scene)?
Looks like the HAM'R case is ~5mm longer than .300BLK, while HAM'R is ~1mm longer than 7.62 WT
https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/wilson-combat-300-hamr/29605
The following is a write-up from White Oak Armament (probably from 4-6 years ago) concerning their choice to build 7.62x40WT over .300BLK:
Why the 7.62x40 WT rather than the .300 BLK?
Why did we choose to chamber for the 7.62x40 WT (wt) rather than the .300 Blackout (blk)? First
because we think it is a better cartridge for supersonic loads, and secondly, and more importantly,
the blk presents some issues for AR-15 gun builders due to the dual role that it is used in which the
wt does not present.
The blackout, or .30 whisper as it was originally labeled was designed to shoot very heavy for caliber
bullets at sub sonic levels for suppressed application in bolt action rifles. This was all well and good,
but when put into an AR-15 platform, the low pressure combined with the fast burning powders
used require a very short gas system to get the energy needed to cycle the action. This presents a
problem when using barrels longer than about 18” due to the long dwell time between the bullet
passing the gas port, and the bullet leaving the muzzle and pressure dropping. These issues can all
be addressed, but when you do, it makes rifle less than ideal for hi pressure light bullets loads that
most hunters are going to want to use. This presents a problem for the barrel maker as without
knowing what kind of loads the customer wants to shoot, we cannot properly tune the rifle. And
even at that, if the customer sells the rifle we never know what kind of load the future owner will
want to use and he may have a rifle with our name on it that does not function. Not good.
What Wilson basically did with the WT was to try to insure some level of uniformity in the ammo
used by not selling the cartridge as a heavy bullet sub sonic round. They designed the cartridge to
have as much case capacity as they could within the limitations of the 5.56 head size and to stay
under the 2.250 magazine limitation with light 110-125 gr bullets with no regard for the long heavy
bullets used for sub sonic loads. This allows the barrel and rifle to be tuned for one type load which
makes it a lot easier to ensure proper function.
The added case capacity is another overlooked advantage. While it does not gain a whole lot of
velocity, generally less than 100 FPS for a given bullet weight, it does give some other advantages.
The added capacity allows slightly slower powders to be used which increases gas port pressure and
allows a reasonable length gas system to be used. This in turn allows a longer barrel to be used
which will add a little velocity, and these little cartridges need all they can get for hunting bigger
predators and medium sized game.
Do we think the BLK is a bad cartridge, not at all. It is great for what it was designed to do. If a
suppressed .30 cal rifle suits your application, it is a great cartridge and there are many fine
gunbuilders who will build a rifle that suits your needs. Here at White Oak we are glad our military
and law enforcement community is there protecting us and thankful for the gun builders that
specialize in building them the tools they need to perform their jobs day in and day out, and
sometimes that tool is a .300 blk. The freedom they provide allows us and the hunters and target
shooters that we serve to do what we love to do. And for that, I feel the WT is the better cartridge.
Great-Kazoo
12-28-2018, 16:14
try the cheap stuff though.
.
Want cheap, and lots of fun to shoot and still hit the target. Try my x39 with a binary trigger oh yeah...................
Bah, we only need three cartridges - the .22lr, the .45acp, and the .30-06! Well, four - the 12 gauge too.
I made the first several thousand pieces of 7.62x40 for Bill Wilson many years ago. He was using a 300 Whisper to hunt pigs on his ranch in Texas and wanted something with more oomph.
I mentioned to him that the appeal of the 300 Whisper was that it was painfully easy to create from 223 brass where the 7.62x40 was not. It is not a huge pain in the ass to make like some wildcats that need specialized tools, but it just isn't as easy as the 300 Whisper was/is. It was not a shock to see that his version never took off.
So far this new caliber looks to be just a new version of the 7.62x40 that will be all but dead 10 years from now.
Another answer to a question that nobody remembers asking. 7.62x39, anyone?
The ever increasing number of chamberings for the AR-15 platform is baffling to me. My perspective on a few of them...
1. 223/556 - Everyone should own - Cheap, plentiful ammo. Great for varmints, but ammo components(bullets) not useful for hunting.
2. 300blk - Versatile in bullet weights. Cases easily made from 223/556 brass. Good shorter range hunting. Cheap plinking. Bullets easily used in .30 cal hunting rifles.
3. Big Bore (450 BM, 458 S, 50 BW) Not cheap, but sometimes you just need to be able to knock down any animal in North America. (458 S my favorite with some crossover to .45-70 in bullet)
Anything in between these are relatively expensive to run and are "boutique" in purpose with limited long term viability.
The 3 I listed let me as a reloader stock only 2 cases, 2 primers, and 2 powders to run in an AR-15 platform.
Of course for longer range hunting(deer/elk) I would pick a good bolt gun over an AR15, but the 300blk .30 cal bullets allow for that.
Just my couple of cents.
These different options certainly broaden the use of the AR-15 platform, but still can't make it do everything. For example, I'd rather take a .308 or larger for elk and larger hunting, and obtaining an inexpensive bolt gun is pretty easy. For those who don't hunt anything larger than white tail, it probably could be an everything platform.
The ever increasing number of chamberings for the AR-15 platform is baffling to me. My perspective on a few of them...
1. 223/556 - Everyone should own - Cheap, plentiful ammo. Great for varmints, but ammo components(bullets) not useful for hunting.
Not sure I agree with the "not good for hunting" part. I'm sure that applies to elk, but the axis deer I murdered 2 weeks ago didnt go far. (170-180 yards, 55gr Tula hollow point).
Not sure I agree with the "not good for hunting" part. I'm sure that applies to elk, but the axis deer I murdered 2 weeks ago didnt go far. (170-180 yards, 55gr Tula hollow point).
That statement was made on the basis that not all states allow .22 caliber for game animals. No offense to those that hunt in states that allow them.:):):)
That statement was made on the basis that not all states allow .22 caliber for game animals. No offense to those that hunt in states that allow them.:):):)
True. Didnt think of it that way. I was using one of my super scary 30 round mags too...
FYI..you might want to check section #203 if you are hunting in Colorado...
https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/RulesRegs/Regulations/Ch02.pdf
FYI..you might want to check section #203 if you are hunting in Colorado...
https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/RulesRegs/Regulations/Ch02.pdf
Yeah, I know CO requires bigger projectiles, just wasn't thinking that way when I posted. No fun magazines here either.
I was in a different state, with no mag caps on deer or exotic species. I went down there with the intent to shoot feral pigs, so I just left the bigger guns at home. When that didn't pan out, 3 of us went out and got 3 deer.
If he's hunting Axis deer, it's either on the island of Leni in Hawaii (which might not even allow rifles, but I don't remember), or in Texas. Since he's got a bunch of family in Texas, I'm going to say the latter.
Sweet... are Axis deer tasty?
Sweet... are Axis deer tasty?
I can barely tell the difference between them and lean beef.
No set season either, which is nice.
I hear Axis deer are the TASTIEST of them all.
If he's hunting Axis deer, it's either on the island of Leni in Hawaii (which might not even allow rifles, but I don't remember), or in Texas. Since he's got a bunch of family in Texas, I'm going to say the latter.
Lana’i
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.