View Full Version : USPSA RIFLE CRC BYERS 2019............???
Destro Yakisoba
01-18-2019, 20:04
So how is this going to be different than the practical rifle matches from the past?
Will there be Minor and Major scoring ?
Are suppressors and arm braces now not allowed?
I found USPSA Rifle rules that seem to be in draft form at the moment...... https://uspsa.org/viewer/2019_USPSA_Rifle_Shotgun_Multigun_Rules_201901_(Dr aft-02).pdf
So what's going on this year?
Thanks.
Truth be told, very little information has been made public about the new format. Matthew and I were told that the Practical Rifle match "was not bringing as many shooters as the USPSA Rifle will" and asked to step aside in favor of a new Match Director.
There is a CRC BOD meeting tomorrow and I have been told that they intend to discuss this topic further. We will have to wait for a decision from the Board.
Destro Yakisoba
01-18-2019, 20:32
Thanks for the info Cy , we all loved shooting the Practical Rifle match .
Most of us hope it's not gone.
Fellas, what's the actual difference between the two matches? BTW, Cy, that was my favourite match of all. Thank you, Brad, and Mathew for all that fun!
rustycrusty
01-20-2019, 20:28
Anxiously awaiting.
This was my favorite match as well.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Won't be much different at all, just a consistent recognized ruleset. It is on the calendar and has already been approved. Cy was never asked to step aside at all. Matt was given the choice to run the match with the USPSA rules and declined to do so. I agreed to run the match so that it could continue. But like all matches at CRC, it will take others stepping up to help set-up and tear down. I'd also like folks to design stages and we also need someone to handle stats.
It will be run under the USPSA rifle rules with HF scoring: https://uspsa.org/documents/rules/2019_USPSA_RIfle_Shotgun_Multigun_Rulebook.pdf
Cy was never asked to step aside at all.[/url]
Had you assisted to the CRC BOD General MD meeting on Saturday, you would know that your statement is incorrect. Both Matthew and I were told, point blank, by Steve Fowler, that we needed to step aside since and that you were now going to run this event and that we were to have no say on this decision.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
rustycrusty
01-21-2019, 12:11
It IS a big change. This sucks. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190121/feda5cc43ae6db907c046f5ed7339bc5.jpg
As seen in the USPSA rulebook,
ANY PISTOL MUST BE RUN FROM A HOLSTER AND CONFORM TO CALIBER /SIZE SPECS FOR A USPSA DIVISION.
So, no more AR pistols... not even PCC AR9 pistols...
Also, no more suppressors.
Also managed to shit on two of the nicest guys I?ve shot with.
This is the wrong call.
Practical Rifle was not dying, it was growing, and it was the only place where one could run actual sensical defensive ARs and other new category ?long pistols?.
I know I?m not alone in thinking this^
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RobertJordan
01-21-2019, 12:24
Bummed that there is this kind of drama at CRC. Why not have both matches?
Bummed that there is this kind of drama at CRC. Why not have both matches?Because both Matthew and I were treated with a HIGH degree of disrespect by the CRC BOD and neither of us are willing to run or endorse events at this range.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Because both Matthew and I were treated with a HIGH degree of disrespect by the CRC BOD and neither of us are willing to run or endorse events at this range.
That sucks Cy. I have known and shot with you both for close to 20 years. You both are top shelf guys in anyones book.
Destro Yakisoba
01-26-2019, 05:36
APPENDIX C2 – Chronograph
Match Chronograph and Equipment Set-up
Are chronograph stations going to be set up to verify Minor/Major rifle powerfactor?
Delfuego
01-26-2019, 11:09
This stinks big time. Sorry Cy.
Not_A_Llama
01-26-2019, 12:11
I really enjoyed the Practical rifle match, and am very disappointed to hear that Cy and Matt were mistreated.
The new match rules appear to be in a format less fun and less practical than the previous match. The format of the change in administration guarantees it.
Bigger thought: Between this and the CRC BOD?s catering to regressive range use policies, I?m wondering what we need to do in order to advance the sport and the club. I?m willing to keep my membership for the next couple years to identify and improve areas of improvement on the BOD. Offhand, I know at least two dozen guys who feel the same way.
Good news: I think meeting attendance will be up.
What was the reason for the change? As far as I can tell, things were going great and everyone was happy. Matthew and Cy did a great job running the match. What happened to precipitate this?
FireMoth
01-27-2019, 17:42
The reason seems to be nothing short of Stuffing USPSA fees down the throat of shooters who had participated in a fun match, to appease a BOD that at once "promotes competition shooting", and yet is desperately out of touch with the current state of competition.
And most importantly, the appeal for such changes must have come from an office of such intent as to gather influence and control for personal gain in some form.
The energy it took to drum up a ferver in the Elderly BOD to demand a change must have been nearly as much labor as the suggested changes, which so far as i can tell were desired by no one involved in the match, and based on no substantiated problem with the match.
The continued alienation of shooters through bureaucratic ligation will eventually be the down fall of our outdoor membership ranges, as it is the competitors who care about the range, the state of the facilities, and the sport enough to continue to fund it.
When the senior most members who some are desperate to appease step down from the board, or simply can no longer afford membership dues, the financial strain may cripple such clubs.
For it is not just paying members that are needed, but responsible and enthusiastic shooters, who encourage both passion and safety in enjoyment of the sport, to make sure the range is safe and successful.
To believe that a single person who has the free time to inflict their influence can commandeer control of what is deemed "safe", and thus constrain reasonable practice for, and implementation of competition on a facility "designed to promote competition shooting" is sickening.
That such control is done for profit on a paid membership range is abusive.
And that the shooting credentials of the person executing this manufactured office are as laughable as they are, is simply insulting.
It is my sincere hope that the insidious little bureaucrat behind these unfortunate changes is reading this, and shrinking a bit. I hope that said person knows that their private endeavor threatens not just a competition, or a club, but the solvency of the shooting sports that has long ridden on the fellowship of shooters.
What's with Colorado ranges shitting all over the most popular matches recently?
Delfuego
01-27-2019, 20:00
You guys may want to look at what happened at the Whittington Center and their BOD recently. It might be a good idea to start a campaign to correct what you can. I think the loud few are making decisions for the quiet many. It's your club too. Show the BOD and others how out of touch the are. Show the usurper(s) that they are not what is wanted, and do not speak for the shooting sports community.
I wise man told me once that our matches are not considered a gentleman's game. Show them they are wrong. Don't roll over for these assholes.
Good luck gentlemen. Give em hell.
I tend to boycott matches by just not attending. If enough people do the same and the turnout for the match is so low that they eventually just quit having them then I win. Conversely, if a match is popular and attendance is high it will likely thrive and grow.
I imagine if a club is putting on matches nobody wants then eventually they won't be putting on the matches. Also, if popular matches are pushed out of a club or discontinued for whatever reason, those matches will likely resurface elsewhere taking their enthusiastic shooters with them to greener pastures.
Eventually, everything will sort itself out.
The worst thing is if shooters continue to shoot poorly run, half ass matches because they feel that is their only option. People will continue to show up and the matches will carry on as they are and nothing will change.
Would probably help to join the clubs, but who wants to join a club if they are going to look down on you for the very reason you joined?
Seems most of the clubs that "support competition" are run by people our grandparents age. While they do probably feel they support competitive shooting sports, they are talking about things like IHMSA, NRA highpower, and whatever else they grew up with. Not that there's a darn thing wrong with any of those mind you but they are old and set in their ways and to them competing is more about slow, laid back, and precise. Anything outside of what they like or are familiar with is ignored or even shunned. I remember when me and a couple of friends started showing up to some DCM rifle matches with our AR-15's in the early 90's. We got lots of disapproving looks from all of the geezers with their Garands and M1A's. Probably didn't help that the three of us would typically finish in the top five out of about twenty-five shooters.
Maybe if you sucked more you would be treated better.
Trying to get a range built in the Watkins area, the struggle is real man. Zoning, Insurance, Contracts, Lease agreements, Fees, and Regulations. It?s nuts.
Hopefully Byers can get their stuff together.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
1 Timothy 2:5
Trying to get a range built in the Watkins area, the struggle is real man. Zoning, Insurance, Contracts, Lease agreements, Fees, and Regulations. It?s nuts.
Hopefully Byers can get their stuff together.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
1 Timothy 2:5
Keep us informed on that one. I'm down the road and would consider joining even though I have land and access to a personal range.
buffalobo
01-28-2019, 07:20
Annual meeting is next month. Show up and make voice heard.
Really disgusting how many are willing to believe, and perpetuate things which are not true.
FireMoth
01-28-2019, 09:50
Oh, so people dont need approval via paid appointment to practice action shooting on the action shooting berms?...
Really disgusting how many are willing to believe, and perpetuate things which are not true.Really?!?! Do tell. What is "your version" of the events. I am sure the match participants are eager to hear your side of the story.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
My "side" Cy, as you know and has been the case for the 7 prior years, has been to do what needs to be done to keep matches running. If I had not offered to keep the match running, it would have ceased to exist entirely.
Oh, so people dont need approval via paid appointment to practice action shooting on the action shooting berms?... Paid? Does not even cover the expenses for doing so. Again, if I had not stepped up to do this, there would be NO practice allowed. Attack me for trying to keep the shooting sports growing...and folks wonder why there are not more matches...because too many want to sit on the sidelines and bitch about not getting their way.
If I had not offered to keep the match running, it would have ceased to exist entirely.
Oh, I see. You "offered" to run this event... How very kind of you to step up to the plate when clearly Matthew was doing such a piss-poor job at it.
Well thank you for "offering" to take over the match. Maybe now you'll come shoot it once in while instead of bitching from the sidelines as you have done for the past couple of years.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Stop saying things that are not true Cy, it is not you, and you are better than that.
This is like watching a soap opera. I like it.
Thank you all for being mostly civilized during the debate.
Stop saying things that are not true Cy, it is not you, and you are better than that.Up until today I had remained very civil about what transpired here but I will not remain silent while you claim to be the hero in this situation. You can spin it any way that you deem necessary to feel better about your actions but, do inside you know that what you did was wrong and you know it.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
This is like watching a soap opera. I like it.
It is really pretty sad.
Up until today I had remained very civil about what transpired here but I will not remain silent while you claim to be the hero in this situation. You can spin it any way that you deem necessary to feel better about your actions but, do inside you know that what you did was wrong and you know it.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Someone sold you a load of crap then, but you still bought it and now appear to be spreading it far and wide. When you are willing to talk about it like a mature person, you have my phone number. I still think you are better than what you are displaying.
rustycrusty
01-28-2019, 11:11
Anyone who shot the match regularly can vouch for Cy here.
-it was growing rather rapidly
-it was popular in its ruleset
-it was run efficiently
What we want to see from an elected board member is as follows:
-More effort to PUSH BACK against bullshit Fudd mentality and NY style rule making
-Support for those who invest their time and effort in keeping events alive
-An effort to bring actual democratic control to the damn club. Maybe a push to get away from physical mail communication FOR EVERYTHING. Maybe a forum on the website?
Maybe having board members that will actually respond to a damn email (Denis)!?
What we DON?T need:
-A politician hellbent on framing everything as a compromise.
If the club wants to ?certify movement and draw work? DO IT IN THE DAMN 5HR WALKTHROUGH INSTEAD OF SENILE BABBLING ABOUT TURKEYS
And for Chrissake?- include the ?cost? in the damn membership fees.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sounds like reasonable approaches rustycrusty. Exactly what I have done with the BOD ever since I joined CRC. So tell me why, as the person who has started every action shooting sport on the East range, lobbied the BOD for these matches (including the starting the subject match) got the practice protocol through with the board, added steel on three ranges...all so folks could shoot in a manner they wanted, spent thousands of my own dollars getting steel and targets to the range, am I the person being attacked? BTW, there are other MDs that can do the range clearance, but none of them wanted to be bothered with it.
I am done with this thread as the drama and untruths are piling up. If you want to talk to me directly, feel free to call me or send me a PM. If you like to shoot the matches, show up and help set them up, tear them down, contribute stages and make them better.
SA Friday
01-28-2019, 17:31
How is it that the CRC BoD was even talking to Mark about this match in the first place? Matt was the MD, Cy was the previous MD. Mark had nothing to do with it. I've never even seen him shoot it. Now all of a sudden out of the blue, the BoD is talking to Mark about what Matt should do to make it better?
GTFOH...
CRC has a BoD problem and they continue to encroach on the dynamic shooting games and its members use at CRC. We had this issue at Ben Lomand. WE FIRED THEM and got BoD that understood shooting in place. I don't know how many times Mark is going to insert himself into 'saving' CRC matches before everyone gets tired of this shit.
What I do know is I promoted the hell out of this match and Hoser's tactical rifle match at work over the last couple years. Hoser's match has gotten so popular there is a monthly waiting list and you better be on the ball signing up for it when sigh-up opens on Pactiscore or you aren't shooting it. It's so popular Hoser is looking at a possible 4th stage (HELL YA!). I see people driving from north of Denver to shoot the match. I was watching the same thing for the CRC match beginning to happen. It takes years, but it was happening. But now with USPSA rules, rigid gun specs, no silencers, set rules on stage designs... Done.
USPSA rules will kill this match. Mark being the MD will kill this match. I will not promote it or shoot it. What a fucking waste.
rustycrusty
01-28-2019, 17:57
Currently filling out my paper mail-in RSVP... to attend an OPEN MEETING just to talk about this shit.
The format of every admin task at CRC is outdated by 1990s standards.
It?s no surprise that no real modern shooter presence is at the meetings. Club is run like the New Jersey DMV.
50% chance they screw up the completely unnecessary paperwork allowing my entrance.
Hope to see you guys there.
This club needs to hear from those of us who are further than 20years from death.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Delfuego
01-28-2019, 19:06
Mark seem to have a habit of sticking his face where it doesn't belong. He tried that shit with precision rifle too. His POS LR rifle match lasted one match because he tried to MD. He also pretends to shoot PRS and give his knowledge on the internet about it too. He sounds like the average board member at most gun clubs. Perhaps he could tell the High Power guys how to shoot also...
Lets keep this civil guys.
ChickNorris
01-28-2019, 21:17
Um....
Great-Kazoo
01-28-2019, 21:45
Wow, this sounds like the stuff that got the range 20 minutes from here, shut down.
Once again, for what ever reason. Gun Owners are our own worst enemies
Once again, for what ever reason. Gun Owners are our own worst enemies
Gun owners are like any other group of people- a few winners and a whole bunch of losers.
I would just like to say that I'd planned on doing some rifle matches this year. From the descriptions provided, Practical Rifle sounds exactly like what I'd have wanted to do. USPSA Rifle, not so much.
FireMoth
01-29-2019, 01:37
My "side" Cy, as you know and has been the case for the 7 prior years, has been to do what needs to be done to keep matches running. If I had not offered to keep the match running, it would have ceased to exist entirely.
Paid? Does not even cover the expenses for doing so. Again, if I had not stepped up to do this, there would be NO practice allowed. Attack me for trying to keep the shooting sports growing...and folks wonder why there are not more matches...because too many want to sit on the sidelines and bitch about not getting their way.
I wonder who gave them the idea that it was suddenly dangerous compared to all other shooting activities and matches at the club, and needed monitoring and approval.
And so remarkable that after interviewing myriad candidates they chose you ALONE to shoulder this burden, based on your extensive credentials and regular availability to the club members to make this a reasonable consideration.
Have you considered working for the ATF NFA section? I hear they can use people like you.
Youre a black guard martyring yourself for having to handle problems you more or less created.
Safety concerns have always existed about all shooting activities, but we agree to certain conduct as club members.
And most of us have seen more safety violations on the static ranges then the action shooting berms, yet the need for your centralized conteol did not manifest until you presented it.
As for your comment about people believing things because of what they read, perhaps that should be an alert to you.
Cy and Matt both have a very good repuatation as stand up members of the shooting community, so most of us are willing to believe them.
What do you suppose that says about your repuatation in the community, and how it was earned, that you are not given the benefit of doubt?
FireMoth
01-29-2019, 01:45
I just noticed that Mark has claimed in this thread to have started "Every action shooting match on the east range".
Gee, Mark... i wonder why the action shooting berms were there before you were a member, with not matches and not practice before you blessed us with your presence.
...
Did you invent the internet too, so we could discuss it here?
...
Thanks again for setting up all the cowboy action matches. Mighty white of ya.
(Todays message brought to you by the letter D. 'D' is for Delusional)
Delfuego
01-29-2019, 09:55
Now I want a "Like" button...
Is it me or are gun clubs more like HOA's than sporting centers?
colorider
01-29-2019, 14:17
I don?t know Mark, so I can?t comment on that issue, however, I can comment on my experience as a member of CRC. last year was my 1st year as a member. The hours long orientation was a full on waste of hours. The doof that did the speaking was so inept, the members were getting restless. Constant babble about turtles and turkeys. The rest was simply reading off of the handouts. When a specific question was asked, the answer provided only left most the group scratching their heads in confusion. It was a total waste of time. If you can read the handout, than you learned more than what he was clamoring on about. The whole ? needing to be verified by member Xxxxx in order to use a holster or shoot and move was not received well either. I understand the need for this with some shooters, but NOT a uspsa card holder or other prior approved verified competition shooter.
Finally, usps mail for communication is absurd. Emails go unanswered.
I elected to skip membership this year.
Honest question: Why no suppressors in the rules? I figured people would WANT others to use them in matches to hear, etc...
FireMoth
01-29-2019, 16:02
IThe whole ? needing to be verified by member Xxxxx in order to use a holster or shoot and move was not received well either. I understand the need for this with some shooters, but NOT a uspsa card holder or other prior approved verified competition shooter.
This is part of the problem. The thread is about an Outlaw match that is being forced into USPSA Rules, and its killing the match.
NRA Basic safety rules are simple. Either they are shooting with appropriate muzzle and trigger discipline, and are safe, or they arent.
USPSA is common, but not difinitive. IPSC is still separate, then there is IDPA, SASS and others. All started as outlaw maches, and all maintained safety well enough to become governing bodies.
Many 3 gun matches are still outlaw.
Ive seen plenty of competitors from various organisations violate safety rules, and many outlaw shoiters who remain vigilant about safety.
So, the need to make anyone join another club while already paying to be a member of one is as onerous as paying for some individuals approvsl.
Honest question: Why no suppressors in the rules? I figured people would WANT others to use them in matches to hear, etc...
In general it has to do with shot timers not picking up the shots and thus creating reshoots. I have never seen a prize table match allow them but I also see them run without problem at many local matches. It takes more attention and focus from the RO for sure.
Some sick and vile things have been said about Mark here, based on nothing more than conjecture. He deserves better. I've known Mark since the mid-90s, when we shot FRIDPA matches up at Clear Creek and I've seen him do a lot of work to establish and grow shooting sports around here. He has also put forth a herculean effort to get CRC to host some modern matches and to finally allow move-and-shoot practice for their members. I know lots of new shooters and competitors who got help, instruction, and encouragement from Mark. He even helped many of us get CCWs long before state law made it easy to have one. The guy has been an asset to the shooting community since I met him.
I have seen no evidence nor read testimony from anyone who actually knows the facts surrounding this development that would lead me to suspect Mark of backstabbing Cy and Matthew (who are seriously great guys). I also don't see any upside for Mark in taking on the new match, considering the time and work requirement and a venomous welcome he got from the small sliver of our shooting community represented here.
None of the parties involved in these matches, including Mark, did themselves any favors by withholding the actual reason for the change in match format. The glaring absence of this critically important information lead a surprising number of people to immediately presume that he's guilty of some sort of evil conspiracy to screw over Cy, Matthew, and the rest of us who participated in the Carbine match.
I'll reserve judgment until the real backstory is known. I'll also gratefully shoot the new match on Saturday and I'll remain forever grateful to Cy, Matthew, and Brad, who made it possible for us to shoot such a fun carbine match at CRC these past few years.
ChickNorris
01-30-2019, 00:05
I've heard tales of turkeys & more turkey talk .. seems not so much rumored now as substantive fact, but I wouldn't know firsthand...
What I may be is uniquely qualified to comment on a couple of points touched upon in this thread & so I've got this bitty opinion to share:
New to shooting & shooting sport, I spent 5 months researching & visiting outdoor ranges to make one my own. CRC did not get my business for many reasons including those listed here from snail mail to schismatic drama. FWIW my newly acquired range membership is paid electronically, ehem.
My experience with competitive shooting is Hoser's outlaw tactical rifle. I'm fortunate to have happened upon such a fine group of people doing something worthwhile & so well run by all involved. I'm part of why there is a waiting list & the match is in need of a 4th stage to accommodate all who wish to participate. I hope it does grow & even more so now as I expect there will be more demand as comparable choice dwindles.
FWIW to those who run things: I am the very demographic ya'll should be courting for business, membership & events. Ask anyone who has trained with me, done business with me or seen me shoot & they'll tell you I'm all in & for the long haul. Perhaps a bit self important but not unreasonable, you'd be lucky to have me.
Unfortunately, I can not offer a grand solution to a bigger picture because I don't know the scope of issue(s) here. Sounds like there's more loss than gain for all & is the cost worth the price?
Delfuego
01-30-2019, 07:03
None of the parties involved in these matches, including Mark, did themselves any favors by withholding the actual reason for the change in match format. The glaring absence of this critically important information lead a surprising number of people to immediately presume that he's guilty of some sort of evil conspiracy to screw over Cy, Matthew, and the rest of us who participated in the Carbine match.
I'll reserve judgment until the real backstory is known. Lets hear it. This is not exactly classified gov't material. No reason for cloak and dagger. If it's better we hear what really happened, we should hear it here.
I am currently basing my opinion on my experience with the parties involved as well as those that that vouch for them.
FireMoth
01-30-2019, 08:42
None of the parties involved in these matches, including Mark, did themselves any favors by withholding the actual reason for the change in match format.
I think youve missed that there was NO reason for the change, hence the complaint. The original match directors were running a great match, with no negative commentary from participants, members, or BOD, and then your buddy decides he needs to rub the thighs of some geriatrics, and all of the sudden there are "problems" that require this sweeping change.
Im glad you had previous good experiences with Mark, and im sure he is lucky to have you as a friend. But dont presume to posture that the rest of us are making shit up. These testimonies are from people who have interacted directly with Mark, or suffered the consequences of his actions pertaining to matches or clubs.
He has, in this very thread, confirmed his involvement in onerous changes, such as having to petition and pay him exclusively to practice competion skills at CRC.
What has been done is a matter of public record. Why it was done is something we would all like to know, because so far as any of us can tell, the supposed "problems" were intriduced by Mark so that he could "Fix" them.
IBTL.
This is better than the Nextdoor thread.
All we need is a picture of that burnt down Chili's.
In general it has to do with shot timers not picking up the shots and thus creating reshoots. I have never seen a prize table match allow them but I also see them run without problem at many local matches. It takes more attention and focus from the RO for sure.
Ah, thank you for the reply. I did not know that the shot timers had trouble picking it up. Thank you.
Not_A_Llama
01-31-2019, 00:08
When I was a kid, I had this neighbor lady who got divorced one day and then had a boyfriend move in the next day and I always thought that was kinda weird.
But on topic, I just would be so cautious about so readily and willingly picking up a match where the previous directors were made to feel so shitty.
funkymonkey1111
01-31-2019, 15:45
What is the actual problem with using the USPSA rules? What is it that you cannot do or are forced to do under the USPSA rulebook that you do not like (as compared to the previous match?)
liftmorebitchless
01-31-2019, 17:07
This doesn't make any sense to me or anyone in my group who came to shoot - it was well organized, attended, and people importantly had fun.
It was one of the real fun matches for a new shooter as well and gave me a confidence with my AR I'd never have got from static range time. Would like to particularly commend Matt and Cy on the last match we had with the Zoot Shooters there who managed to still give us 5/6 fun stages to shoot - we set up with what we could find, the old wooden target stands etc.
"What is the actual problem with using the USPSA rules?"
I see two main issues
- No "pistols" - the SBR rules are stupid in this country, nice to have a match.
- No Silencers - people buy these cool silencers and this was one of the few matches they could shoot them in.
Counter question If you want to shoot a rifle under USPSA rules - what's stopping you from buying a 9mm and joining the vast ranger of regular USPSA matches that allow PCC division?
rustycrusty
01-31-2019, 17:18
ARs/AKs must be registered SBR (no pistols, no braces. You may think that?s a small deal, but it?s not. Basically says, you want to run what?s the most logical? Cough up $200 to Uncle Sam and ask for a fucking permission slip when you travel. I expect that shit from liberal d-bags. Not from my fellow shooters.
No suppressors. That is a very common accessory on a ?practical rifle?. It makes things SAFER, and we can?t use them? Derp.
Caters to gamer rigs that are the exact opposite of ?practical? for anything BUT that game.
Takes the whole spirit of innovation out of the match. Progress in the shooting sports has come largely from outlaw matches.
USPSA is for dudes to measure heir dicks. That?s fine. No problem. Only a complete loser asshole would NEED the USPSA rules to measure dicks by. Shoot the match... compare your scores to EVERYONE. If you aren?t slit 1, yours wasn?t biggest.
This was the ONLY match within denver metro area that you could run ?outside of the box? builds. The only match where you could run a typical home defense AR and be OK.
So where do you go now to pressure test those things in a fun and safe environment? YOU DON?T.
USPSA? Fine. No problem with it.
Killing an outlaw match that was unique, for a USPSA match that is NOT special? Bullshit.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As a previously active member of this match (almost 100% attendance, 100% setup, and almost 100% teardown), I will not be attending this match anymore.
The reason I enjoyed this match so immensely was that it was something different. I quite enjoy throwing on the game belt and my game pistol and shooting USPSA pistol matches. It's great that there are so many opportunities for the shooting sports in the Front Range. However, this match was one of a kind. It was great to be able to run a tactical or home defense gun and go fast. Hell, there's a guy who regularly places top 5 with an ironsight ak. It was great for me that I had an opportunity to run my can on the clock, as well as test out gear like an above poster said.
Unfortunately, this has been thrown aside. I was not present for any of the conversations about this, so I'm not going to make any assumptions about what was or was not said. Here are the facts as I see them:
-Cy and Matt were running a terrific match, with growing numbers
-The rules were virtually identical to USPSA rules, minus some equipment rules. Safety rules are exactly the same
-For whatever reason, they are not running the match anymore
-Mark is now running the match
-The rules have been changed to disallow several popular configurations of rifles and equipment to facilitate a "gamier" match
I don't really care about how this came to be. All I see is a new person proposing very unpopular changes to a previously successful match.
I'll be spending my rifle time at Hoser's tactical rifle, and I will be there for setup.
SA Friday
02-01-2019, 17:25
Ah, thank you for the reply. I did not know that the shot timers had trouble picking it up. Thank you.
They don't on 556. 300 and 9mm subs, yep.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.