View Full Version : HB19-1177 Red Flag Emergency Risk Protection Order is here
avandelay
02-16-2019, 18:22
Filed Feb 14 with a hearing on Feb 21.
Rally For Our Rights is asking people to be there -
Thursday, February 21st
1:30pm (please arrive early)
Colorado State Capitol
House Judiciary Committee RM HCR 0112
Denver, CO
Here is their take on the bill - http://www.rallyforourrights.com/colorados-red-flag-erpo-worse-than-you-think/
Given the makeup of the house/senate I'm not holding my breath that any logic or actual respect for due process will prevail.
Bailey Guns
02-16-2019, 18:38
Done deal. Might as well just cut out the middle man and send it to Gov Polis.
Aardvark
02-16-2019, 19:02
I wonder how many of those traitorous politicians have firearms...
avandelay
02-16-2019, 19:30
They don't care. They made this a civil matter so you have no right to face your accuser. This law has the potential to take swatting to an entirely new level and there is no downside to the petitioner making false claims. We all know there is no court in the state that will not issue the order even with the weakest of evidence.
Surely this won't be abused when it passes.
Douglas County Sheriff Tony Spurlock, a Republican, spoke in favor of this. What The literal Fuck?
Do you suppose if I voiced my opposition to this, he'd revoke my CCW and come take my guns for being a "crackpot"?
DavieD55
02-17-2019, 03:31
This thoroughly unconstitutional act will be used for all sorts of nefarious activities.
BladesNBarrels
02-17-2019, 10:39
The Republican's did not learn anything from the 2013 legislation.
How to get unity in the party?
They don't care. They made this a civil matter so you have no right to face your accuser. This law has the potential to take swatting to an entirely new level and there is no downside to the petitioner making false claims. We all know there is no court in the state that will not issue the order even with the weakest of evidence.
Unless the bill provides civil immunity there are substantial downsides to making a false claim. I'm not saying that will stand in the way of violating rights.
I have no doubt we'll see some interesting abuses and court cases come out of this. And maybe not in CO but any of the other red flag states.
Douglas County Sheriff Tony Spurlock, a Republican, spoke in favor of this. What The literal Fuck?
Do you suppose if I voiced my opposition to this, he'd revoke my CCW and come take my guns for being a "crackpot"?
Doesn't surprise me. He's one of the ones who said they didn't have the tools to deal with the last nutter. Well, they've had the tools, his family had the tools, and no one did anything.
In an odd way, they've moved this from standard that eliminated LE's liability with due process (involuntary confinement) from one that will put them front and center. And when the first nutter has his guns taken and uses a different method of murder the optics will be bad. Why didn't you protect us? You knew he was crazy!
eddiememphis
02-20-2019, 11:18
Dave Kopel breaks down the many, many problems.
https://pagetwo.completecolorado.com/2019/02/19/kopel-and-greenlee-plenty-of-red-flags-in-colorados-extreme-risk-protection-order-bill/
Dave Kopel breaks down the many, many problems.
https://pagetwo.completecolorado.com/2019/02/19/kopel-and-greenlee-plenty-of-red-flags-in-colorados-extreme-risk-protection-order-bill/
Which DEMS in the CO General Assembly (House or Senate) care one bit about what David Kopel brings up?
I will write each of the letters if people can identify which one might actually care.
Zundfolge
02-21-2019, 19:47
Virtually every "problem" Kopel points out is in reality a feature ... not a bug.
Unless the bill provides civil immunity there are substantial downsides to making a false claim.p
The bill doesn't have to provide civil immunity when you won't ever be allowed to even know who reported you.
Rucker61
02-22-2019, 08:26
Which DEMS in the CO General Assembly (House or Senate) care one bit about what David Kopel brings up?
I will write each of the letters if people can identify which one might actually care.
If it saves even one life, the Democrats are willing to trample every gun right, and any other right you have.
Aardvark
02-22-2019, 08:34
If it saves even one Leftist life, the democrats are willing to trample, imprison and murder every gun owner and every other right of The Right.
avandelay
02-22-2019, 08:58
If it saves even one Leftist life, the democrats are willing to trample, imprison and murder every gun owner and every other right of The Right.
Except abortion. They'll only expand your right to kill a baby (now to include born alive babies) because they're so progressive.
Oh, and the e-mail from Pudley said Red Flag passed out of committee yesterday 7-4
Bitter Clinger
02-22-2019, 09:18
Let’s get the recalls started
http://www.rallyforourrights.com/petition/
The bill doesn't have to provide civil immunity when you won't ever be allowed to even know who reported you.
You aren't allowed to question that person but I don't know how the court meets the standards in the bill without discovery of the reporting person. Even then, if you don't necessarily know at the hearing, I don't understand how the courts could keep a lawyer from finding out. Particularly in the event of a false claim.
Again, my faith is minimal but I know if I found myself in this situation it wouldn't just go away in a year. I would use every legal remedy I could to own that person.
avandelay
02-22-2019, 22:52
Not that it will change the party-line vote, but the Colorado sheriffs are reconsidering their support - https://kdvr.com/2019/02/22/colorado-sheriffs-consider-pulling-support-for-red-flag-bill/
BushMasterBoy
02-22-2019, 23:42
All politicians are Benedict Arnold. Democrats are even worse. Maybe the SCOTUS will stricken this too.
avandelay
02-22-2019, 23:46
Much like the magazine ban lawsuits that never went anywhere in the state I doubt a lawsuit on this thing will get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time. We don't have Judges in our pocket like they do in the 9th and Hawaii.
Shooter45
02-23-2019, 00:34
Nothing will help. The state has changed for the worst. Not too late to perform an emergency evacuation from the state.
DavieD55
02-23-2019, 09:01
Let's get those recall petitions signed before they tamper with that too.
Not that it will change the party-line vote, but the Colorado sheriffs are reconsidering their support - https://kdvr.com/2019/02/22/colorado-sheriffs-consider-pulling-support-for-red-flag-bill/
Like I said on page #1... They are playing checkers against a child if they support this.
[snip]
In an odd way, they've moved this from standard that eliminated LE's liability with due process (involuntary confinement) from one that will put them front and center. And when the first nutter has his guns taken and uses a different method of murder the optics will be bad. Why didn't you protect us? You knew he was crazy!
I'm seldom the reasonable [social program] advocate but if people were serious about solving this problem they would fund state mental health facilities for "dangerous" individuals and use the involuntary commitment standard in the courts. Yeah, that's more tax money down the drain but could be cheaper for the state depending on how this shakes out and would actually address the Holmes scenario.
And rather than giving "civilians" the green light to lie, hoax, and abuse, LE would have the say-so in who gets taken through the process after an investigation. Nutter gets a lawyer with full discovery. Judge makes the ruling which absolves LE either way. Nutter is confined until he is determined to be safe (not perfect but far better than this).
DavieD55
02-23-2019, 12:33
Like I said on page #1... They are playing checkers against a child if they support this.
I'm seldom the reasonable [social program] advocate but if people were serious about solving this problem they would fund state mental health facilities for "dangerous" individuals and use the involuntary commitment standard in the courts. Yeah, that's more tax money down the drain but could be cheaper for the state depending on how this shakes out and would actually address the Holmes scenario.
And rather than giving "civilians" the green light to lie, hoax, and abuse, LE would have the say-so in who gets taken through the process after an investigation. Nutter gets a lawyer with full discovery. Judge makes the ruling which absolves LE either way. Nutter is confined until he is determined to be safe (not perfect but far better than this).
I think you're looking at it as if they are honestly seeking real solutions as most honest well meaning people do. If they were to act on real solutions then they would start running out of fuel to feed their gun control agenda and propaganda campaigns against the American public.
They are selling it off as safety and security, but in reality it will be ripe with abuse and used as a tool to harras law abiding citizens at the whims of people who were never intended to have that ammount of authority. It is dangerously unconstitutional.
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Great-Kazoo
02-24-2019, 13:31
https://guntalk.com/news/politics/tipping-their-hand?fbclid=IwAR1B1l9qmVDuZqg5KlZi87DuVweElylKPwWV ocl4-VMwVnM18U78lGwG_rk
BPTactical
02-24-2019, 13:54
https://guntalk.com/news/politics/tipping-their-hand?fbclid=IwAR1B1l9qmVDuZqg5KlZi87DuVweElylKPwWV ocl4-VMwVnM18U78lGwG_rk
Good read and a very realistic scenario IMO.
Bitter Clinger
02-26-2019, 16:20
Link at bottom
Red Flag bill lays federal trap for gun owners
February 25, 2019 By Scott Weiser
DENVER–The “Red Flag” bill moving through the Colorado Legislature has been the subject of plenty of debate, but as it stands now, for persons against whom even a temporary Extreme Risk Protection Order (ERPO) has been issued, there is a risk they could be trapped into inadvertently violating federal gun control laws.
House Bill 19-1177 requires that at the initial ex parte hearing (where the subject is excluded), and based on a judge finding by a preponderance of the evidence that the person meets the “danger to self or others” standard, a ruling issuing a temporary ERPO and search and seizure warrant to confiscate guns is required.
According to federal regulations provided to Complete Colorado by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) someone is “adjudicated as a mental defective” if found by a “court, board, commission or other lawful authority” to be, among other things, “a risk to himself or others.”
A strict reading of the federal law suggests that a person under any ERPO has been “adjudicated as a mental defective” by a judge and is barred from all gun ownership from the federal perspective.
The potential threat to gun owners is that even if the judge declines to issue the year-long order, there is still an adjudication and a temporary ERPO on record that arguably prohibits people from getting their guns back until another court proceeding required by federal law to relieve that disability is held.
As well, an ERPO that expires without further court action at the end of the statutory time period of 364 days doesn’t meet the standard for relief from the federal gun-ownership disability.
Prior to 2008, a judicial finding that a person was a danger to himself or others permanently revoked a person’s right to keep and bear arms. This disqualified many people suffering from temporary mental health issues from gun ownership for life.
The federal NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007 provides, among other things, a pathway for people who were barred from gun ownership due to temporary mental illness to regain their rights once they are no longer in crisis.
The 2007 federal law says that a state can provide relief from the federal ban by creating a program for granting relief in state law. The law must provide that a “state court, board, commission or other lawful authority” grant the relief.
Colorado passed just such a statute in 2013 that is found at C.R.S. 13-5-142.5
When petitioned, the court may grant relief if it finds the person is “not likely to act in a manner that is dangerous to the public safety” and that the relief is not “contrary to the public interest.”
The catch is that only persons who have been “found to be incapacitated,” “committed by order of the court” to the custody of the state, or for whom the court has entered an order for short term treatment or for long-term care of a mental health disorder are eligible to petition for relief.
The bill does not address this situation, meaning that the subject of either a temporary or year-long ERPO might not be eligible to petition for relief under existing Colorado law.
Both federal and Colorado statutes say that persons taken in for observation on a 72-hour mental health hold or those who voluntarily admit themselves to a psychiatric facility do not qualify as being “committed to a mental institution,” which is another event that disqualifies gun ownership. But the Colorado ERPO bill doesn’t require a person adjudicated as dangerous to get any mental health treatment at all.
This potentially puts people who are issued temporary ERPOs pending a full hearing, those who are not issued an ERPO at the full hearing and those for whom an ERPO expired without further court action in the position of having to go back to court to relieve the federal prohibition, if they even know they must do so, only to find that they are not eligible to petition for relief under state law.
Denver Field Division BATFE Public Information Officer Mary Markos, declined to provide any official interpretation of the federal statute. When asked about this potential problem, she responded in an email saying, “Please reach back out with your questions after the bill has passed with its final language.”
https://pagetwo.completecolorado.com/2019/02/25/red-flag-bill-lays-federal-trap-for-gun-owners/
avandelay
02-26-2019, 17:38
I doubt that the Dems will lose a moment of sleep from putting innocent firearm owners into a catch-22 between state and federal law. They'll pass the bill, sign it into law and promptly start defending in court with any attempt at an injunction denied. Spend years in the court system to have the suits thrown out much like the magazine ban suits.
Rucker61
02-26-2019, 18:56
I doubt that the Dems will lose a moment of sleep from putting innocent firearm owners into a catch-22 between state and federal law. They'll pass the bill, sign it into law and promptly start defending in court with any attempt at an injunction denied. Spend years in the court system to have the suits thrown out much like the magazine ban suits.
Yeah, to them, that's a feature not a bug. Part of every gun control law passed is the intent to make gun ownership onerous enough to reduce lawful gun ownership.
I think you're looking at it as if they are honestly seeking real solutions as most honest well meaning people do. If they were to act on real solutions then they would start running out of fuel to feed their gun control agenda and propaganda campaigns against the American public.
They are selling it off as safety and security, but in reality it will be ripe with abuse and used as a tool to harras law abiding citizens at the whims of people who were never intended to have that ammount of authority. It is dangerously unconstitutional.
That's why I said "if" they were serious. They clearly aren't. They are leaving the dangerous person in society to have his way with whomever after LE identifies him as a problem.
Taken at face value, this isn't a solution.
I doubt that the Dems will lose a moment of sleep from putting innocent firearm owners into a catch-22 between state and federal law. They'll pass the bill, sign it into law and promptly start defending in court with any attempt at an injunction denied. Spend years in the court system to have the suits thrown out much like the magazine ban suits.
Unlike the mag bans that exist in the gray areas, this is an absolute prohibition on RTKBA. It goes directly against Heller that recognized DC's patchwork of gun laws were unconstitutional. It's unconceivable when applied to any other right and the only override to that is public interest ("the Constitution doesn't matter because this is good policy").
avandelay
02-28-2019, 00:04
I like my county and Sheriff. Weld County may become a second amendment sanctuary county (https://pagetwo.completecolorado.com/2019/02/27/weld-county-may-join-fremont-as-second-amendment-sanctuary-county/?fbclid=IwAR3IjJ7PGfHqb0Gx4_HIhBkkMLwXt-ZiHEugkI9iISHDAL0ynwP-5RzI98s)
eddiememphis
02-28-2019, 09:35
I like my county and Sheriff. Weld County may become a second amendment sanctuary county (https://pagetwo.completecolorado.com/2019/02/27/weld-county-may-join-fremont-as-second-amendment-sanctuary-county/?fbclid=IwAR3IjJ7PGfHqb0Gx4_HIhBkkMLwXt-ZiHEugkI9iISHDAL0ynwP-5RzI98s)
Montezuma and Teller counties are proposing similar resolutions.
Zundfolge
02-28-2019, 18:57
I think you're looking at it as if they are honestly seeking real solutions as most honest well meaning people do...
If they were honest about real solutions they'd have no problem with using real due process and they'd have no problem with stiff penalties for false flagging.
The fact that Dems in DC just voted down a proposal to inform ICE when illegals tried to buy guns from an FFL proves that they don't really care about disarming criminals, only vexing the law abiding citizen.
DavieD55
03-04-2019, 04:54
This is right out of the communist playbook. Some of the worlds most notorious mass murderers implemented similar decrees before they killed millions of people. Just give it a few more years and we'll look back and see a long list of people who we're needlessly murdered by the order of communists, cultural marxists and useful idiots in "our" government with this unconstitutional illegal decree.
Summary of Red Flag by CO state representative Kevin Van Winkle:
A few House Democrats joined all House Republicans yesterday from 9am to about 10:30pm trying to stop or amend the dangerous 'Red Flag' gun confiscation bill.
Why?
First, understand how Red Flag gun confiscations will work under this bill:
1. A long list of people such as family members, ex?s, former roommates, etc. - or law enforcement acting on its own - can petition a court to issue a red flag warrant.
2. A hearing -- kept secret from the accused (6th Amendment rights!) is held and a judge must decide based on a ?preponderance of evidence? (50%+1) to issue a gun confiscation order. This is almost a certainty because only one side is even aware of the hearing and able to present evidence.
**I ran an amendment to this section, which received bipartisan support, to prevent the evidence from being all 'hearsay' (2nd hand accounts), but it failed.
3. At this point, law enforcement and the accused (or anyone with them like kids, pets, etc.) are forced into a VERY dangerous situation. Sheriff deputies or police officers must assume you are unstable/armed and they have been ordered by a court to enter your home to search it (4th Amendment!). Keep in mind that you: 1. have no idea you've even been accused of anything; 2. don?t know police are coming to search your home; and 3. may not even own a firearm.
-- we ran an amendment to prohibit dangerous 'no-knock' raids, but it was rejected.
4. Hoping all went well with the search of your home (unlike other states, where that step has resulted in deaths), police take your firearms, revoke any conceal carry permit, and then leave you alone -- no effort to provide or offer mental healthcare is made. After all, this bill has absolutely nothing to do with mental healthcare.
5. Two weeks later, you finally get the chance to defend yourself and face your accuser - but at this point you have already essentially been found guilty and the burden of proof is on YOU to prove beyond a reasonable doubt - a much higher legal standard than the secretive first hearing - that you are sane enough to have your 2nd Amendment rights restored. Not sure how a person proves beyond reasonable doubt that they?re not depressed and 100% sane, but good luck.
6. Once this hearing concludes, your next chance to prove your sanity will be in 364 days.
Keep in mind, this bill does not address any underlying mental health issues. If a person poses a significant danger to themselves or others, it?s naive and dangerous to surprise them with a SWAT team at that moment in order to remove firearms - while completely ignoring the fact that a person might need to seek help, counseling, or other assistance.
Counties are already approving resolutions declaring themselves ?Second Amendment Sanctuary? counties and refusing to comply with this bill. Sheriff after Sheriff continues to come forward with objections.
The final vote in the House will be Monday, and then the Senate will take up the matter.
If you care strongly about this bill, innocent until proven guilty, or the rule of law, please let your voice be heard. Contact your Representative or Senator today.?
Bailey Guns
03-04-2019, 08:11
Where did you find that ^^?
avandelay
03-06-2019, 10:28
For those interested Rally for our Rights is live streaming the Weld county commission discussing the ERPO on Facebookhttps://www.facebook.com/rallyforourrights/videos/1618504521626950/
ETA - Weld county is now a 2nd amendment sanctuary county. More of a message than anything because ERPOs would be carried out by the town police and the likes of Erie would gladly execute the ERPO given that we're mostly ex Boulder and ex Cali residents.
ETA2 - The vote was to mane Weld County a 'constitutional rights sanctuary' and was unanimous. They expect more counties to follow suit.
mahabali
03-06-2019, 11:49
This is truly insane.
Bitter Clinger
03-06-2019, 13:08
https://www.coloradocitizenpress.com/recalls-have-officially-started/
https://www.coloradocitizenpress.com/recalls-have-officially-started/
I donated.
Bitter Clinger
03-06-2019, 16:51
I donated.
Awesome! I will on payday. But now I have a less demanding job and can help with gathering signatures.
buffalobo
03-06-2019, 18:41
Link to recall web site.
https://join.recallcolorado.org
avandelay
03-06-2019, 19:05
I wish the recall efforts would join forces. I find several different groups that are calling for/planning petitions and they would definitely be better served if there was a combined effort.
avandelay
03-06-2019, 20:22
Link to recall web site.
https://join.recallcolorado.org
I'd be careful with that site. It seems to only allow you to donate, but doesn't say to what you're donating. I've also read that it is a site set up by the opposition.
spittoon
03-11-2019, 10:36
Ok so what do we do ? how many people will take a day off or two to protest? how many will call there sheriff and ask why do we not get our rights. Where is the state Wpatrol ? Why are they not stopping in protest it to protect our rights. there should be enough protesters to stop traffic in denver and pack the capital . When will it stop ? make a stand now call in sick make a stand or this........YOU ARE COMPLACENT !! DO YOU VOTE ? MAKE CALLS ? WRITE LETTERS ? OR DO YOU JUST HIDE AND TAKE IT ? THEN YOU WANT TO BE A PATHETIC COMPLAINER AFTER THE FACT! HIDE IN THE SHADOWS TURN AWAY AND SOON THE GIFT WILL BE ....TYRANNY!!!
Ok so what do we do ? how many people will take a day off or two to protest? how many will call there sheriff and ask why do we not get our rights. Where is the state Wpatrol ? Why are they not stopping in protest it to protect our rights. there should be enough protesters to stop traffic in denver and pack the capital . When will it stop ? make a stand now call in sick make a stand or this........YOU ARE COMPLACENT !! DO YOU VOTE ? MAKE CALLS ? WRITE LETTERS ? OR DO YOU JUST HIDE AND TAKE IT ? THEN YOU WANT TO BE A PATHETIC COMPLAINER AFTER THE FACT! HIDE IN THE SHADOWS TURN AWAY AND SOON THE GIFT WILL BE ....TYRANNY!!!
You can say this all you want. That is not reality at the State Capital.
You need to look at how fast bills are being pushed through that are controversial. They are being dropped on Friday afternoons and votes on Tuesday or Wednesday. That occurred with oil and gas bill and occurred last week on the family leave bill.
A week ago I was at an industry day at the capital. The DEMs do not care. I directly told them I put in place a hiring freeze until the the end of the legislative session to see how much damage their policies are putting on business. When they dont care that industry is telling them we have a hiring freeze and they do not care their policies are preventing employment, why do you think this is anything but a done deal? One of the representatives asked to tell us about all the reasons why Colorado is a great place to have a business. My statement was "it's not, if my house wasnt here the business would be moved to Cheyenne where they want business." They did not really care.
That said the one office that was interested in keeping business in Colorado was Sen Gardner. His representatives are setting up meetings with us because we have unique insight into some federal taxation issues and overseas business.
To put it bluntly, the State of Colorado right now doesnt give a damn about business and employment.
callerys
03-11-2019, 11:00
I wrote to Douglas County Commission, and it sounds like they are voting on a resolution Tuesday at 1:30pm in Castle Rock (open to public) to not follow any unconstitutional red flag laws.
Bailey Guns
03-11-2019, 12:43
Ok so what do we do ? how many people will take a day off or two to protest? how many will call there sheriff and ask why do we not get our rights. Where is the state Wpatrol ? Why are they not stopping in protest it to protect our rights. there should be enough protesters to stop traffic in denver and pack the capital . When will it stop ? make a stand now call in sick make a stand or this........YOU ARE COMPLACENT !! DO YOU VOTE ? MAKE CALLS ? WRITE LETTERS ? OR DO YOU JUST HIDE AND TAKE IT ? THEN YOU WANT TO BE A PATHETIC COMPLAINER AFTER THE FACT! HIDE IN THE SHADOWS TURN AWAY AND SOON THE GIFT WILL BE ....TYRANNY!!!
That all sounds great...like you're a true patriot and a go-getter. Good for you.
The reality is, some people have a choice of taking days off work and going to protests or not taking days off work and providing for their families. I do agree with the calls/letters/voting part of your statement. Just a thought...you're probably not gonna get a lot of support for your protests and such by calling those you want to support your cause "pathetic complainers". Trust me...I get the passion. But there's a better way to go about it.
But, tyranny? Really? Is it really tyranny when you have a duly elected state house, senate and governor that ran on these policies and are now following up with them? Remember...a majority of the voting population voted for the democrats that are now running things. It probably doesn't look like tyranny to them.
Don't get me wrong. I don't like the ERPO nonsense any more than you and I don't even live there any longer. I truly believe that, as written, the bill is unconstitutional. But that's not up to you or me to decide.
Maybe you should take your own advice and run for the state house or senate in your district.
avandelay
03-26-2019, 18:05
Apparently the Senate president, Leroy Garcia, is going to vote NO (https://coloradosun.com/2019/03/26/leroy-garcia-red-flag-bill-vote-colorado/) on the red flag bill
Apparently the Senate president, Leroy Garcia, is going to vote NO (https://coloradosun.com/2019/03/26/leroy-garcia-red-flag-bill-vote-colorado/) on the red flag bill
Won't matter . . . will still pass by one vote and Polis will sign it as soon as he can. Bastages.
avandelay
03-26-2019, 20:41
Won't matter . . . will still pass by one vote and Polis will sign it as soon as he can. Bastages.
We'll see soon enough. There are enough Ds on the fence that they've held over on the vote and with the Senate president voting no then some others may feel free to vote no. There are three active recalls for Senate and House seats going on now.
We'll see soon enough. There are enough Ds on the fence that they've held over on the vote and with the Senate president voting no then some others may feel free to vote no. There are three active recalls for Senate and House seats going on now.
Hope that's true . . . this law is a steaming pile of crap.
Zundfolge
03-26-2019, 21:02
Won't matter . . . will still pass by one vote and Polis will sign it as soon as he can. Bastages.
That's my initial reaction. But there is some evidence that the recalls last time have spooked some Democrats who see the recall organizations warming up again. The D's that aren't idiots (so about half of them) realize that if there are recalls that they'll lose their stranglehold on power.
BPTactical
03-27-2019, 07:48
I'll just leave this here:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/colorado-sheriffs-who-wont-enforce-anti-gun-red-flag-law-should-resign-state-ag-says
Great-Kazoo
03-27-2019, 09:12
I'll just leave this here:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/colorado-sheriffs-who-wont-enforce-anti-gun-red-flag-law-should-resign-state-ag-says
And that east coast, triggered liberal, "Bud" wiser should be tarred & feathered.
avandelay
03-27-2019, 10:50
Key Colorado Democrat won't support 'red flag' gun control bill (https://www.watchdog.org/colorado/key-colorado-democrat-won-t-support-red-flag-gun-control/article_deb35916-509a-11e9-83ee-f38cf92a672b.html)
The bill was held over again today. They're discussing the miserable budget that give less than 1% of the $30+ BBBBillion proposed budget to road/bridge repairs, but gives $200+ million to fund all day kindergarten.
beast556
03-27-2019, 15:01
If this year wasn't a senate election year this would be passed and done already. None of them want to loose there cushy job's.
I'll just leave this here:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/colorado-sheriffs-who-wont-enforce-anti-gun-red-flag-law-should-resign-state-ag-says
That guy can go f@ck himself with a rusty rake...
Rucker61
03-27-2019, 17:33
I didn't see this coming:
https://kdvr.com/2019/03/27/denver-police-union-joins-opposition-to-red-flag-bill/
I didn't see this coming:
https://kdvr.com/2019/03/27/denver-police-union-joins-opposition-to-red-flag-bill/
Maybe Spurlock will finaly start thinking with the Constitution and his head and not with his emotions?
ChickNorris
03-27-2019, 18:51
I didn't see this coming:
https://kdvr.com/2019/03/27/denver-police-union-joins-opposition-to-red-flag-bill/
Agreed
BPTactical
03-27-2019, 20:44
Ooohhh, dis gonna get good.
avandelay
03-27-2019, 22:06
Yeah, Denver police union not backing it is big. The 3rd reading was supposed to be Monday and held over for three straight days. I'm hoping it was because they didn't have the votes. The union not supporting it is just more reason to vote NO unless you're just a party hack.
Yeah, Denver police union not backing it is big. The 3rd reading was supposed to be Monday and held over for three straight days. I'm hoping it was because they didn't have the votes. The union not supporting it is just more reason to vote NO unless you're just a party hack.
Denver PD supports every liberal dream that comes around. Pretty surprised they came out against this . . . but it's a horribly misguided bill, so maybe they just felt their collective consicence couldn't stand for it? Would love to see this go down and Spurlock get recalled.
Rucker61
03-28-2019, 08:44
Denver PD supports every liberal dream that comes around. Pretty surprised they came out against this . . . but it's a horribly misguided bill, so maybe they just felt their collective consicence couldn't stand for it? Would love to see this go down and Spurlock get recalled.
I think they understand who would be at the loud end of the gun for confiscations. Maybe the bill should be amended that every ERPO needs to have a Democratic state legislator accompany them to actually hand them the notice.
ChickNorris
03-28-2019, 08:47
I think they understand who would be at the loud end of the gun for confiscations. Maybe the bill should be amended that every ERPO needs to have a Democratic state legislator accompany them to actually hand them the notice.
This again ^^^^^
Now get out of my head. ; )
buffalobo
03-28-2019, 09:18
President of Senate is also being disingenuous, he could have stopped that Bill already.
It will pass and he can say he voted against it for re-election points.
I didn't see this coming:
https://kdvr.com/2019/03/27/denver-police-union-joins-opposition-to-red-flag-bill/
Do I have to post my observation again?
This is really bad for LE. They know it doesn't solve the problem while putting them at risk and creates all sorts of perception issues. They have to go on the record saying someone is dangerous crazy, stack up at 0300, take his guns, and then leave him to do as he pleases?!?
This never made any sense according to its stated purpose (which I don't believe is the actual purpose because I'm not stupid).
avandelay
03-28-2019, 11:11
The third reading that was supposed to be this morning has been pushed to this afternoon. If they had the votes then it would be law already.
avandelay
03-28-2019, 11:46
And new this morning, the Aurora Police Association joined the Denver Police union in opposition to the ERPO bill - LINK (https://www.sentinelcolorado.com/0trending/aurora-police-union-joins-denver-in-condemning-states-proposed-red-flag-bill/)
https://www.sentinelcolorado.com/0trending/aurora-police-union-joins-denver-in-condemning-states-proposed-red-flag-bill/
AURORA | Flying in the face of Aurora Police Department brass, the Aurora police union on Thursday announced it is formally opposing the so-called “red flag” bill currently weaving through the state Legislature.
In a Facebook post published around 9 a.m. on Thursday, the Aurora Police Association wrote it is joining the Denver police union in condemning HB19-1177, which would allow family members and law enforcement officials to petition courts to strip weapons from people deemed to be a threat to themselves or others.
“Our members have clearly expressed to us their concerns about the constitutionality of such legislation and are deeply concerned about the lack of due process in the current bill,” the Aurora union wrote on Facebook. “Police officers understand the value in addressing the real problem, the mental health of individuals in crisis. The problem cannot be successfully addressed by restricting access to tools while ignoring the mental health considerations.”
The Democrats in the Senate don't have the votes without putting a few senators in jeopardy. I think the 11th hour DPD, Aurora, etc. are last minute negotiations to help the Democrats save face and not take a vote on it. I think it is a good possibility that it will be postponed indefinitely.
The Democrats in the Senate don't have the votes without putting a few senators in jeopardy. I think the 11th hour DPD, Aurora, etc. are last minute negotiations to help the Democrats save face and not take a vote on it. I think it is a good possibility that it will be postponed indefinitely.
Our only potential saving grace this time around is how much worse this rendition was than the last one. Both are bad, but this one is potato x 100. Hopefully this gets killed off, but even if that happens they'll be back with something that still sucks.
OneGuy67
03-28-2019, 14:58
Passed on a 18-17 vote....
Either vote out or recall the traitors in swing districts who voted for this abomination.
I just don't see how this garbage can pass muster constitutionally. The complete lack of due process is scary.
Either vote out or recall the traitors in swing districts who voted for this abomination.
I just don't see how this garbage can pass muster constitutionally. The complete lack of due process is scary.
And hopefully some do a recall of Senate President Leroy Garcia (Pueblo).
He "voted against it" after he knew it would pass. He was trying to act like he didnt support it so people dont initiate a recall, but he could have at any time as Senate President stopped the bill if he was worried about it in a number of ways. He could have simply not scheduled it.
Hopefully he pays the price with a recall for being scum.
AKA-Spook
03-28-2019, 17:15
Either vote out or recall the traitors in swing districts who voted for this abomination.
I just don't see how this garbage can pass muster constitutionally. The complete lack of due process is scary.
...and where is the NRA ?
BPTactical
03-28-2019, 17:21
With passage, Amendments 2, 4 and 6 are now null and void in this state.
Let that sink in.
...and where is the NRA ?
Dudley has probably chased them off.
MileHighShooting
03-28-2019, 17:34
With passage, Amendments 2, 4 and 6 are now null and void in this state.
Let that sink in.
Bert, that's silly. They threw out the thought of following the Constitution years ago.....
BPTactical
03-28-2019, 17:58
Bert, that's silly. They threw out the thought of following the Constitution years ago.....
Well there is that.......
I think anyone that voted for this is demonstrating extreme risks towards public safety and may be a danger to themselves. If only the government could step in and do something about people like that without notice or opportunity for a hearing! Oh.. wait...
AKA-Spook
03-28-2019, 18:36
you have to wonder...what would happen if everybody called and turned in someone, every day, that didnt own guns and said they thought they were a danger to themselves or society.
and the police had to get warrants and search say the principal of a grades schools house...and find nothing
and then a cops house, and then a rabbi's house, and then the manager of king soopers house...
think the system is crashable?
remember you'd have to know there were no guns in the house and i know lots of people who are against keeping weapons.
do you think after a million or so false flags and Democrat doors being kicked in we could turn this around ?
I'm making a list.
a million calls the day our semen friendly governor signs it into law!!!
Grant H.
03-28-2019, 18:49
you have to wonder...what would happen if everybody called and turned in someone, every day, that didnt own guns and said they thought they were a danger to themselves or society.
and the police had to get warrants and search say the principal of a grades schools house...and find nothing
and then a cops house, and then a rabbi's house, and then the manager of king soopers house...
think the system is crashable?
remember you'd have to know there were no guns in the house and i know lots of people who are against keeping weapons.
do you think after a million or so false flags and Democrat doors being kicked in we could turn this around ?
I'm making a list.
a million calls the day our semen friendly governor signs it into law!!!
What's this "warrants" stuff that you speak of?
They don't need no stinking warrants with this...
Zundfolge
03-28-2019, 19:16
...and where is the NRA ?
Wayne LaPierre could have personally lead protests and camped on the lawn of the capital building and it wouldn't have made a damn bit of difference. The D's hate gun rights and will vote against them every chance they get.
With passage, Amendments 2, 4 and 6 are now null and void in this state.
Let that sink in.
And the 5th because it's a matter of time before someone uses this to murder someone after disarming.
you have to wonder...what would happen if everybody called and turned in someone, every day, that didnt own guns and said they thought they were a danger to themselves or society.
and the police had to get warrants and search say the principal of a grades schools house...and find nothing
and then a cops house, and then a rabbi's house, and then the manager of king soopers house...
think the system is crashable?
remember you'd have to know there were no guns in the house and i know lots of people who are against keeping weapons.
do you think after a million or so false flags and Democrat doors being kicked in we could turn this around ?
I'm making a list.
a million calls the day our semen friendly governor signs it into law!!!
Not defending it by any means, but you know you just can't call and report someone right?
It does have to go before a judge, though that liberal fcuk judge does wield a lot of power in this case.
Bert, that's silly. They threw out the thought of following the Constitution years ago.....
What, that old thing? They put it on a roll in the capitol men's room years ago.
you have to wonder...what would happen if everybody called and turned in someone, every day, that didnt own guns and said they thought they were a danger to themselves or society.
and the police had to get warrants and search say the principal of a grades schools house...and find nothing
and then a cops house, and then a rabbi's house, and then the manager of king soopers house...
think the system is crashable?
remember you'd have to know there were no guns in the house and i know lots of people who are against keeping weapons.
do you think after a million or so false flags and Democrat doors being kicked in we could turn this around ?
I'm making a list.
a million calls the day our semen friendly governor signs it into law!!!
This, there's no recourse for filing false claims so ..
It does have to go before a judge, though that liberal fcuk judge does wield a lot of power in this case.
Liberal, conserative, they'll sign off on Every. Single. One.
No judge wants to be "that guy" that doesn't sign off on a red flag case where the accused ends up murdering soneone or, gawd forbid, goes off on a shooting spree.
So it's safer for the judge's career to sign off on every one that hits their desk.
In liberal circles, that's called a feature.
O2
Liberal, conserative, they'll sign off on Every. Single. One.
No judge wants to be "that guy" that doesn't sign off on a red flag case where the accused ends up murdering soneone or, gawd forbid, goes off on a shooting spree.
So it's safer for the judge's career to sign off on every one that hits their desk.
In liberal circles, that's called a feature.
O2
This. There is really no downside for a judge.
And hopefully some do a recall of Senate President Leroy Garcia (Pueblo).
He "voted against it" after he knew it would pass. He was trying to act like he didnt support it so people dont initiate a recall, but he could have at any time as Senate President stopped the bill if he was worried about it in a number of ways. He could have simply not scheduled it.
Hopefully he pays the price with a recall for being scum.
Unsurprising that he pulled something like that.
He's already in hot water with his constituents in Pueblo for voting in favor of the law that would outlaw drilling for oil and gas. The steel mill in Pueblo provides a lot of jobs, and one of their main sources of income is selling pipes and related materials to the oil and gas industry.
He probably knew he had to come out against the EPRO bill or else he'd be serious toast, but yeah, that was super weasely.
Pinkerton
03-30-2019, 22:48
After disenfranchising Colorado voters from the Presidental election disarming them makes them irrelevant serfs...
DavieD55
03-30-2019, 23:18
Once this is enacted and in place I predict they're going to use it pretty heavy at first. They'll probably kill a few on purpose and say they resisted in order to invoke a lot of fear into the rest of general public. Or else we wont know anything about it as they're going around attacking and initiating pre-dawn raids confiscating firearms from gun owners without any due process of law.
Either way it will be passed off by the fake MSM, the crooks, and useful idiots who support it as being successful in keeping the "commun-ity" safe.
Nothing this blatantly unconstitutional and illegal could ever be about public safety.
Anyone who supports this, willfully acts on it, upholds it, defends it, and enforces it are not our fellow Americans.
Grant H.
03-30-2019, 23:25
The existing Red Flag law in Maryland has already killed at least one...
It'll happen here too...
The dem's don't care...
kidicarus13
03-31-2019, 06:28
The existing Red Flag law in Maryland has already killed at least one...
It'll happen here too...
The dem's don't care...114 requests in the first month.
https://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2018/11/16/first-month-of-red-flag-law-draws-114-requests-for-removing-guns/
Bailey Guns
03-31-2019, 07:31
You can't just blame democrats for this nonsense. Republicans are in on this as well, especially at the federal level. Lindsey Graham has sponsored new legislation in the senate.
Both parties are screwing us. One uses a left-hand threaded screw, the other uses a right-hand threaded screw. Whatever it takes for them to gain power at our expense.
AKA-Spook
03-31-2019, 17:34
http://www.firearmownersunited.com/2019/03/22/nz-police-shut-down-gun-confiscation-website-in-less-than-24-hours-due-to-trolling/
https://thefederalist.com/2019/03/29/colorado-counties-declare-second-amendment-sanctuaries-face-gun-grabbing-bill/
This Is an Insane Idea Ripe for Abuse
There’s a lot wrong with this idea. First, the Red Flag bill makes it easy for anyone to file a petition, including angry former lovers from many moons ago. A petitioner can file on the phone or in person, doesn’t have to provide his address, and doesn’t have to reside in Colorado. A petitioner doesn’t have to appear in person at any hearing, and there is no cost to file a petition.
callerys
04-12-2019, 13:01
its the law now. just signed today by the gov
Goes into effect on January 1st, 2020.
If it's so damn important, why the delay?
Already expecting a court challenge I guess?
StagLefty
04-12-2019, 13:52
If it's so damn important, why the delay?
Already expecting a court challenge I guess?
LE doesn't have a supply of red flags yet. Each served house will display one until firearms are returned.
Boating season is coming up. I predict an enormous number of accidents, but a surprisingly low injury rate.
Zundfolge
04-12-2019, 17:33
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqspSyHGeYc
Meh... just dont tattle on me
kidicarus13
04-12-2019, 21:37
Serious question... how is LE to know if they've confiscated all firearms? Do they expect the subject of the order to tell them? Seems pretty naive to me.
buffalobo
04-12-2019, 23:06
Not much of a stretch to some sort of "list".
Serious question... how is LE to know if they've confiscated all firearms? Do they expect the subject of the order to tell them? Seems pretty naive to me.
Of course they expect that, the whole bill has no regard for the fifth amendment.
I predict that a number of guns in this state will be leaving the relative safety of their gun safes for more discrete hiding places.
Serious question... how is LE to know if they've confiscated all firearms? Do they expect the subject of the order to tell them? Seems pretty naive to me.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/3OaF-j8x5Vc/hqdefault.jpg
It's time to start saving and be ready to fund the first challenge. Will be easier to overturn one like this in CO with no standards and no due process since it's not just a 2A issue.
JohnnyDrama
04-14-2019, 16:43
I had an interesting conversation with someone who works for the court system. She's done a pretty good job of keeping me entertained with stories involving A said - B said, in all sorts of circumstances. It seems to happen a lot where restraining orders are involved.... Anyway, she saw this as being another law that will be similarly abused. From her perspective, it looked like a lot of headaches for her down the road.
Be careful out there....
Zundfolge
04-14-2019, 18:37
Serious question... how is LE to know if they've confiscated all firearms? Do they expect the subject of the order to tell them? Seems pretty naive to me.
They don't care since this isn't about actually getting guns out of the hands of "dangerous" people, this is about making all law abiding gun owners afraid.
I imagine you'll also have a few confiscation teams that will go above and beyond ... and the home's they confiscate from will be unlivable once they're done.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.