View Full Version : "Electric Vehicles are Actually Worse for the Environment than Internal Combustion Cars"
OtterbatHellcat
02-28-2019, 22:59
Hey Jer…..Joe K electric vehicles much?
Great-Kazoo
02-28-2019, 23:17
Hey Jer…..Joe K electric vehicles much?
Only Tier 1.
And these 2 post should be 1 more reason to close this thread. It's become another circle jerk of can too, can not.
Now here's something the daughter told me. CA is paying up to 75% of the sticker price on the new polaris EV utv's WITH you trading in a ICE off road unit. Do the search yourself as i'm not gonna make it that easy.
Hint: under some CA clean air site.
Dumpster Fire [ROFL1]
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-01/analysts-slam-teslas-anticlimactic-surprise-dump-secretive-conference-call-details
clodhopper
03-01-2019, 10:12
77456
But wait, there's more [ROFL1]
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-01/elon-musk-end-road
...
In the past week, we have learned that;
yet another Tesla has lost a wheel due to ?Whompy Wheel? (google it). ?Whompy Wheel? is a well-documented fatal Tesla flaw with dozens of occurrences, caused by poorly engineered suspensions (they?ve paid hush money to victims so they?re complicit) where wheels fall off Teslas during normal driving, leading to multiple fatal crashes. After the car crashed, the driver was burned alive due to faulty door handles that wouldn?t open once power was down (friends really shouldn?t let friends drive these deathmobiles)
The SEC is holding Elon Musk in contempt for blatant disregard of the prior settlement agreement. I suspect Musk is ultimately pushed out of the company as a result. At the very least, they cannot raise capital until this is settled. The longer the standoff lasts; the more likely it is that the market realizes that vehicle demand has died and the business is imploding?not exactly a good thing when your valuation is as stretched as Tesla?s is
Tesla is closing most stores and service centers to save money, yet severance and lease termination will likely be larger than Tesla?s current liquidity balance. Such a move should be done in bankruptcy and in all my years, I have not seen a bankruptcy/non-bankruptcy announcement such as this (without any DIP even secured!!)
Tesla is dramatically reducing vehicle prices to push faulty legacy inventory on consumers in a last ditch cash grab. Tesla?s cash needs are so extreme that they?re doing this despite trying to simultaneously sell a higher priced version into Europe where many buyers will simply return the car (under EU law) and accept a cheaper version, which will likely lead to negative margins on most vehicles sold this year
Tesla is functionally bankrupt and the Q1 ending cash balance (not adjusted for quarter-end lipstick) will likely be less than $2 billion and possibly as low as $1 billion
Tesla?s GC has looked at some piece of information and left the company, despite coming from a firm that specializes in white collar criminal defense. We don?t yet know what was so repugnant that he left, but it had to be rather awful as they?ve also lost their entire accounting team twice in the past year.
That all happened this week!!!
...
Whompy Wheel: https://www.flickr.com/photos/136377865@N05/sets/72157658490111523/
Someone has to pay for the lowered model 3 price...
https://electrek.co/2019/03/02/tesla-cut-employee-compensation-layoff/amp/
Great-Kazoo
03-03-2019, 08:57
They may not be worse. However they are showing they may not be viable.
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/teslas-store-shuttering-strategy-may-pull-rug-solar-012539456--finance.html
End of article
"They'd tell us the focus of the company is the Model 3," said one former seller, who left the company in January. "The Model 3 has to be successful or there's no company.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-03/kupperman-cant-spell-felon-without-elon
https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/tsla-osha.png?itok=ii_dB7UI
Going back to the shark analogy, when revenue inflects negatively, these accruals will catch up with Tesla quite rapidly. Watch monthly vehicle sales. January was awful. February was worse. They just fired all the sales people?how can March be any better? Tesla is imploding. It?s over and it will soon become obvious to everyone. Before, as a short, you had to use logic against a well-orchestrated stock promote complete with highly manipulated numbers. They can?t fake the numbers as revenue declines and they can?t promote the stock with only bad news coming. I added even more puts and put spreads this Friday.
The Gigafraud is about to detonate!!!
BushMasterBoy
03-03-2019, 15:39
245,162+ Tesla cars produced so far. Is it possible to put a small diesel in it and make it a diesel electric? If they fold, I see a big problem in the battery procurement process.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-03/kupperman-cant-spell-felon-without-elon
https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/tsla-osha.png?itok=ii_dB7UI
Not defending per se, but nothing to do with the fact they're in CA?
Not defending per se, but nothing to do with the fact they're in CA?
... in a tent.
... in a tent.
Tesla is probably #1 car manufacturer inside the tent.
Honey Badger282.8
05-04-2019, 21:04
Bump.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiDWgh7jhTE
Yeah. Just that some Japanes car may have more US parts than certain Ford vehicle
Or
Some Korean Car may have less US parts but assembled 100% in US relative one GM car assembled in Mexico.
Or
One German car may have more US made parts than domestic cars AND assembled in US.
I remember one Mitsubishi Montero driver said that the BMW made fighter planes for Nazis. Their planes killed lots of Americans.
So I told em that Mitsubishi use to make Zeros which attacked Pearl Harbor and killed lots of American CIVILIANS.
ChickNorris
05-04-2019, 22:05
Saw this rarity yesterday. Anyone remember the Fisker Karma?
I saw this rarity yesterday. Anyone remember the Fisker Karma?
Nice find. That is pretty rare.
My goal is to find GM EV1 on the road. I think I will have a better luck finding a unicorn.
Yeah GM took them all back and crushed them. Like the Beech Starship :(
ChickNorris
05-05-2019, 06:52
<-------
.... I think I will have a better luck finding a unicorn.
My wifes car is falling apart pretty good and it's time to start looking for another one. She wants a Tesla, but they are more than I'm willing to pay. I was just browsing Craigslist to what cars are even on the market. The best looking so far were a Focus and a Kia Sol. Seems that as far as range goes though, it's either well over 100 with a Tesla, or under 100 with everything else. Under 100 is tough for me to commit to. For my wife going to work and back that is no big deal, but any side trip would put her at risk of running out of charge. I need to do some more research to see what is available because obviously I'm not getting a ton of info from for sale ads. Miles seem to be relatively low on these vehicles though.
EDIT: This Focus says only 76 miles per charge, ouch. I wonder if those tests are conducted without using many of the features like the headlights and heated seats and what not. https://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/d/boulder-2013-ford-focus-electric-sales/6880943389.html
EV battery capacity: 23 kWh
Electric Motor HP: 123
Electric Motor Power Output (Kilowatts): 107
Electric Motor Torque: 181
Electric charge cord: 120 volt
Electric motor battery type: lithium ion
Electric motor charging time (240V): 4 hours
Electric motor miles per charge: 76
Nissan Leaf says 100 miles per charge. Slightly better, but 8 hours to charge on 240V?. https://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/d/denver-2012-nissan-leaf-sl-just-in/6875696131.html
Battery saver:
Electric Motor HP: 107
Electric Motor Power Output (Kilowatts): 80
Electric Motor Torque: 207
Electric charge cord: 120 volt
Electric motor battery type: lithium ion
Electric motor charging time (240V): 8 hours
Electric motor miles per charge: 100
Kia Soul says over 90 miles per charge. https://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/d/englewood-2015-kia-soul-ev-electric/6873629559.html
Bump.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiDWgh7jhTE
This is a very good video that accurately and succinctly echoes what I've been trying to say to a community that should be behind Tesla 100% but isn't. It's puzzling. If the Tesla haters had it their way Tesla would fail and some Chinese car company would fill that void because they're the only other nation that is as focused on this (AI, EV, etc.) as Tesla. If Tesla fails it's a very bad sign for us on the world stage long-term.
Yeah. Just that some Japanes car may have more US parts than certain Ford vehicle
Or
Some Korean Car may have less US parts but assembled 100% in US relative one GM car assembled in Mexico.
Or
One German car may have more US made parts than domestic cars AND assembled in US.
I remember one Mitsubishi Montero driver said that the BMW made fighter planes for Nazis. Their planes killed lots of Americans.
So I told em that Mitsubishi use to make Zeros which attacked Pearl Harbor and killed lots of American CIVILIANS.
That's all you took from the video? This was one of the few places where Tesla varies little from the other car manufacturers largely because they have to source foreign parts to compete. The video was largely about the differences though and these differences are why we should all support Tesla if we consider ourselves American Patriots. Hell with politics. I want what's best for this country and it's people, right now anyway, that's Tesla.
Methinks you put way too much importance into Tesla being successful. If Tesla went belly-up tomorrow, the sun will still rise in the East and set in the West. We will carry on.
...and some of us really don't give a damn about how this would make us look "on the world stage". Some countries should respect us and the rest should fear us. That's what governments are for, not propping up businesses that can't profitably sustain themselves.
Methinks you put way too much importance into Tesla being successful. If Tesla went belly-up tomorrow, the sun will still rise in the East and set in the West. We will carry on.
...and some of us really don't give a damn about how this would make us look "on the world stage". Some countries should respect us and the rest should fear us. That's what governments are for, not propping up businesses that can't profitably sustain themselves.
What you seem to keep missing is that they've already been successful. Their mission from day 1 was to accelerate our adoption of domestic renewable energy and getting off of dependence of foreign oil. One of those avenues is the acceptance and subsequent adoption of electric vehicles which too many people assume is all Tesla does & profits are all they care about.
You seriously think that how we "look" on the world stage is a concern? Do you think that allowing China (or anyone for that matter) to leap ahead of us in AI and renewable energy technology isn't a security threat that is much larger than passenger cars?
SouthPaw
05-06-2019, 12:09
Damn it Jer! Quit stirring the pot [Coffee]. Honestly. I have not read a single post in this thread but see it has lots of activity (7 pages worth). A friend of mine just bought one and I have never even sat in one so I am excited to check it out.
https://www.bizjournals.com/boston/news/2019/05/06/why-reducing-carbon-emissions-from-cars-and-trucks.html
The term AI is mis-used too often and it's a long way from actually existing. We're still toying with machine learning and AI Toolkits.
China is more concerned about fueling their economy, which is why they continue to build coal fired power plants. Their continued pollution output means it makes no sense to curtail our economic growth in the goal of "saving the planet". There is no net benefit at great expense to us for the hope of a fractional change in global temperature (yet we should be good stewards of the world we live in). Scientists are also unable to effectively model our climate (and have the predictive failures to prove it). It's believed that man has some influence, but science is still unable to quantify it.
I see more risk to throwing a ton of money at a "problem" rather than spending far less to adapt to change (that pre-dates history). I also am disgusted by the enviros that stifle third world countries attempting to improve themselves with the resources that they have (like coal) by pushing 'green' solutions that they don't have. Yeah let's show how much we care by making them use solar power in their one room medical clinic where they can either run the fridge to keep their medicine from going bad -or- turn on the lights.
I'd rather see us spending our money strengthening this country and making sure we don't end up speaking Chinese with all of our beloved businesses being under Chicom control. Throwing money at businesses that don't have self-sustaining business models is definitely not the answer.
https://www.bizjournals.com/boston/news/2019/05/06/why-reducing-carbon-emissions-from-cars-and-trucks.html
The term AI is mis-used too often and it's a long way from actually existing. We're still toying with machine learning and AI Toolkits.
China is more concerned about fueling their economy, which is why they continue to build coal fired power plants. Their continued pollution output means it makes no sense to curtail our economic growth in the goal of "saving the planet". There is no net benefit at great expense to us for the hope of a fractional change in global temperature (yet we should be good stewards of the world we live in). Scientists are also unable to effectively model our climate (and have the predictive failures to prove it). It's believed that man has some influence, but science is still unable to quantify it.
I see more risk to throwing a ton of money at a "problem" rather than spending far less to adapt to change (that pre-dates history). I also am disgusted by the enviros that stifle third world countries attempting to improve themselves with the resources that they have (like coal) by pushing 'green' solutions that they don't have. Yeah let's show how much we care by making them use solar power in their one room medical clinic where they can either run the fridge to keep their medicine from going bad -or- turn on the lights.
I'd rather see us spending our money strengthening this country and making sure we don't end up speaking Chinese with all of our beloved businesses being under Chicom control. Throwing money at businesses that don't have self-sustaining business models is definitely not the answer.
That's why China has nearly 2x more EVs right now than us.
Oh, so the numbers of EVs is what makes a country better. Or are you suggesting that communism is working? ;-)
China has 1.1 billion more people than we do, so it's not a reach that they have "more".
Why Is China Placing A Global Bet On Coal?
https://www.npr.org/2019/04/29/716347646/why-is-china-placing-a-global-bet-on-coal
Because they have an economy and population large enough to control a market share large enough to keep it alive? Because they don't care as much about moving to the next technology, and they think that if they are the only ones, then they can have all the coal for way cheaper?
Those are of course just guesses.
They're building new coal plants all over the world. It's probably because they're good at it since 70% of their power comes from coal.
The more countries that swear off coal, the more available and cheaper coal will be for China. It's not a bad plan economically. It's not like they'll have to be behind on the technology curve just because they use coal.
Oh, so the numbers of EVs is what makes a country better. Or are you suggesting that communism is working? ;-)
China has 1.1 billion more people than we do, so it's not a reach that they have "more".
Did I say China was better? I said they're embracing EV and this adoption will accelerate the advancement as well as related technologies while we grunt and marvel at how useful fire is.
You ever see the air quality in China? Eesh. The average lifespan will be 35 before long.
IF Global Warming was real, and IF CO2 was a pollutant, and IF high capacity batteries were safe, and IF EVs could go 500 miles on a 15 minute charge, and IF oil was in short supply, and IF EV sales were not subsidized by taxpayers, I just might consider the switch.
Never gonna happen without a Govt boot to mandate it.
Just say no to the PC hype and enjoy your patriotic American muscle car as you roar down the open road, frightening small animals and children, and Kool-Aid drinking, Elon caressing, soft headed, bed wetting, pinco commie princesses who blew their cash on a failing company who bilked millions from the moron masses.
IF Global Warming was real, and IF CO2 was a pollutant, and IF high capacity batteries were safe, and IF EVs could go 500 miles on a 15 minute charge, and IF oil was in short supply, and IF EV sales were not subsidized by taxpayers, I just might consider the switch.
Never gonna happen without a Govt boot to mandate it.
Just say no to the PC hype and enjoy your patriotic American muscle car as you roar down the open road, frightening small animals and children, and Kool-Aid drinking, Elon caressing, soft headed, bed wetting, pinco commie princesses who blew their cash on a failing company who bilked millions from the moron masses.
If CO2 was a pollutant? You should test that theory by letting your vehicle run in a confined space to trap the exhaust. Maybe... I dunno.. your garage? Be sure to live stream the "research" and let us know when to tune in. I'll be sure to catch how it unfolds.
If high capacity batteries were safe? If that's a requirement then I guess cars as we know the today would be out of the running too.
Insulting people who don't believe with your outdated opinion doesn't make you any more right.
I don?t think carbon dioxide will kill you. You should be more worried about CO than CO2.
Also, killing yourselves by breathing exhaust is way more difficult these days. Catalytic converters pretty much cut about 98% of the bad shit out. You?d want to try it with an older vehicle that doesn?t use a catalyst.
If CO2 was a pollutant? You should test that theory by letting your vehicle run in a confined space to trap the exhaust. Maybe... I dunno.. your garage? Be sure to live stream the "research" and let us know when to tune in. I'll be sure to catch how it unfolds.
If high capacity batteries were safe? If that's a requirement then I guess cars as we know the today would be out of the running too.
Insulting people who don't believe with your outdated opinion doesn't make you any more right.
Um, I'm pretty certain CO2 is what plants crave. Obama's EPA and the UN designated it as a pollutant for global political purposes - doesn't make it so.
Gas cars do not use the same batteries as electric cars - thought you'd know this. I have yet to read about a gas car's battery spontaneously combusting and remain burning for a period of days. Plenty of articles related to EV battery safety issues.
"outdated opinion" is a term often used by high-minded progressives, and nope, facts make me "more right" whatever that means.
I don?t think carbon dioxide will kill you. You should be more worried about CO than CO2.
Both.
Monoxide will most likely kill first than dioxide.
Probably it may happen inside the pressured places like submarine, airplanes or spaceships or such.
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/124389.html
Um, I'm pretty certain CO2 is what plants crave. Obama's EPA and the UN designated it as a pollutant for global political purposes - doesn't make it so.
Gas cars do not use the same batteries as electric cars - thought you'd know this. I have yet to read about a gas car's battery spontaneously combusting and remain burning for a period of days. Plenty of articles related to EV battery safety issues.
"outdated opinion" is a term often used by high-minded progressives, and nope, facts make me "more right" whatever that means.
No, electrolytes are what plants crave. Duh!
https://static.fjcdn.com/large/pictures/df/5c/df5cc5_887063.jpg
I'm not talking about a 12v battery in a gas powered car. I'm talking about the gigantic liquid bomb underneath that people said would kill everyone if we used it to power our vehicles.
Why do I feel like i'm having the same damn conversation with the same damn people?
Zundfolge
05-06-2019, 17:24
I honestly don't know who is more annoying. The EV haters or the EV evangelists.
Its like watching people argue with Vegans, Apple users or CrossFitters.
hurley842002
05-06-2019, 17:32
I honestly don't know who is more annoying. The EV haters or the EV evangelists.
Its like watching people argue with Vegans, Apple users or CrossFitters.What if you are a crossfitter AND an EV evangelist......
What if you are a crossfitter AND an EV evangelist......
Mind. Blown.
I listened to the Joe Rogan with the guy who has a YouTube channel around him rebuilding Teslas from salvage and that guy was like, "Tesla owners are like Apple but worse because there is a green element, and you live inside the product as well." I was going to post the link here, but they only talked about Tesla for like 20 minutes out of 3 hours. Basically the guy bought a few from salvage and made one working car. Even completely totaled Teslas go for at least $15,000 in salvage. He sold a non-working motor that was full of salt water on ebay for $5,000.
Why do I feel like i'm having the same damn conversation with the same damn people?
That can happen when you talk religion with non-believers.
hurley842002
05-06-2019, 18:08
Mind. Blown..https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190507/72b2b86f676d9fee30889732bd2f3bfe.gif
I listened to the Joe Rogan with the guy who has a YouTube channel around him rebuilding Teslas from salvage and that guy was like, "Tesla owners are like Apple but worse because there is a green element, and you live inside the product as well." I was going to post the link here, but they only talked about Tesla for like 20 minutes out of 3 hours. Basically the guy bought a few from salvage and made one working car. Even completely totaled Teslas go for at least $15,000 in salvage. He sold a non-working motor that was full of salt water on ebay for $5,000.
Except it assumes I'm gung-ho about the planet saving element which I'm not. I've made that clear numerous times. I'm not trying to convert anyone I'm trying to correct misinformation. I don't care if EVs aren't for you or anyone else but people should at least be allowed to make a decision based on actual facts and not FUD and made up bullshit that gets parroted as if it were fact.
Rich Benoit is the guy that was on the Joe Rogan podcast. He's the same one that has the popular YouTube channel called RichRebuilds that most anti-Tesla people assume I've never seen and use as proof that you can't buy parts for Teslas. They don't realize how old those videos were and how much has changed since he started that process. I tend to agree with him on most things though as he's not a Tesla fanboi nor am I. The problem is when I get into a room of Tesla haters the optic is that I am a Tesla fanboi just trying to defend the FUD, misinformation & hate.
That can happen when you talk religion with non-believers.
It's actually a lot like trying to convince an anti-gun person that guns can't kill people themselves and require bad people with bad intentions to kill innocent people. They dig their feet in based on a movie they saw once and there's no convincing them no matter how much fact & proof you beat them over the head with.
What if you are a crossfitter AND an EV evangelist......
Naval aviator into crossfit, but also a vegan and EV.
Naval aviator into crossfit, but also a vegan and EV.
What if he has a standing desk, too?
Then he will write about it all with good posture and no neck issues.
Back to EV...
I asked in a topic, but no replies.
Anyone have any experience with the Oset electric dirtbikes for kids?
My non-Tesla questions were also not addressed.
My non-Tesla questions were also not addressed.
Be patient. Not everyone has an ICE keyboard.
Be patient. Not everyone has an ICE keyboard.
How sweet would an ICE keyboard be with a nice two stroke?
Back to EV...
I asked in a topic, but no replies.
Anyone have any experience with the Oset electric dirtbikes for kids?
I've heard good things. Battery life is a little iffy with aggressive throttle use, kids hate waiting for them to recharge no matter how fast it is...
I've heard good things. Battery life is a little iffy with aggressive throttle use, kids hate waiting for them to recharge no matter how fast it is...
He's only 4, so I'd have it on the low setting. Once he got bigger, if the bike still fit, I'd probably grab a spare battery set (depending on cost?) to keep on hand for longer sessions.
buffalobo
05-07-2019, 13:19
How sweet would an ICE keyboard be with a nice two stroke?Diesel, rolling coal from my keyboard.
I'll get that loudmouth in the next cubicle.
SouthPaw
05-07-2019, 13:38
Diesel, rolling coal from my keyboard.
I'll get that loudmouth in the next cubicle.
https://i.postimg.cc/gkjC7hgT/vw.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
I know a lady who made $$$$ on TSLA. She got in at high $70s.
I mean wealth managers at lone tree (or highlands ranch) and Boulder Schwab will greet her at the lobby with management level VIP treatment.
I told her may be she should get a Tesla S since she made good $$.
She replied "I am not buying that thing. I am buying grand cherokee."
Whatever will save you $$. I dont care it is Nissan Leaf, Tesla S or Ferrari 488 for all I care.
One of Only vehicle I can save $$ is if i buy those 12+ yr old cheap Ford ranger.
Idiot keys Tesla, caught on built-in cameras.
https://denver.cbslocal.com/2019/10/01/tesla-vandalized-broomfield-police-caught-on-camera/
The fact that Teslas are all wired for sound and video has given rise to an entirely new form of clickbait linking to videos of recorded accidents, vandalism, and people doing stupid things.
I know a lady who made $$$$ on TSLA. She got in at high $70s.
I mean wealth managers at lone tree (or highlands ranch) and Boulder Schwab will greet her at the lobby with management level VIP treatment.
I told her may be she should get a Tesla S since she made good $$.
She replied "I am not buying that thing. I am buying grand cherokee."
Whatever will save you $$. I dont care it is Nissan Leaf, Tesla S or Ferrari 488 for all I care.
One of Only vehicle I can save $$ is if i buy those 12+ yr old cheap Ford ranger.
Multiple studies have shown that Total Cost of Ownership of a Tesla is lower over the long term than comparable ICE-powered vehicles.
Idiot keys Tesla, caught on built-in cameras.
https://denver.cbslocal.com/2019/10/01/tesla-vandalized-broomfield-police-caught-on-camera/
Good. 'Bout time vandals have met their match and maybe stupid incidents of pointless vandalism will decrease or, at minimum, those who do such stupid things are caught & punished properly for their cowardliness.
hurley842002
10-02-2019, 08:48
Must have taken ?her? parking spot, I?ve had people try and fight me over parking spots they feel entitled to.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Multiple studies have shown that Total Cost of Ownership of a Tesla is lower over the long term than comparable ICE-powered vehicles.
I read this kind of statement and have to wonder how long is "long term"? The model S only started shipping in late 2012.
The additional cost of electric vs. ICE often takes many years (sometimes around 10) to ever recover the purchase price difference. Now that the US is a net exporter of oil, gas prices are remaining reasonable. A Nissan Leaf avg. sale price is $28,683 and an ICE Versa is $13,932. At $2.50/gallon, that's about 5,900 gallons (546 fill-ups) worth of cost difference.
Oil changes/filters are not what they used to be with modern synthetic oils (often annual/10K miles).
The other thing I have to wonder is what is the comparative mileage on the Teslas vs. ICE vehicles? I could see the mileage limitations and charge times of EV keeping average mileage lower. There's also likely much more down time for repeated recharging vs. annual ICE servicing.
EVs are often heavier than ICE due to the batteries. The electric motors also have quite a bit of torque. What is the delta on tire wear between EVs and ICE?
Would love to see some real statistics that aren't coming from the Church of Tesla.
I read this kind of statement and have to wonder how long is "long term"? The model S only started shipping in late 2012.
The additional cost of electric vs. ICE often takes many years (sometimes around 10) to ever recover the purchase price difference. Now that the US is a net exporter of oil, gas prices are remaining reasonable. A Nissan Leaf avg. sale price is $28,683 and an ICE Versa is $13,932. At $2.50/gallon, that's about 5,900 gallons (546 fill-ups) worth of cost difference.
Oil changes/filters are not what they used to be with modern synthetic oils (often annual/10K miles).
The other thing I have to wonder is what is the comparative mileage on the Teslas vs. ICE vehicles? I could see the mileage limitations and charge times of EV keeping average mileage lower. There's also likely much more down time for repeated recharging vs. annual ICE servicing.
EVs are often heavier than ICE due to the batteries. The electric motors also have quite a bit of torque. What is the delta on tire wear between EVs and ICE?
Would love to see some real statistics that aren't coming from the Church of Tesla.
The problem is when people who are anti-EV see "real statistics" supporting the pro-EV movement that is inevitably coming they just chalk it up to "Church of Tesla" and don't put in their own research to qualify or disqualify these findings themselves. That's too hard in this day of instant info where information is spewed at light speed regardless of if it's fact-based or not.
The amount if ignorance out there being parroted by people as fact by people who don't know the first thing about what they're talking about is nearly impossible to combat at this point. When I pull up places and am met by people who don't know what the hell an EV is the types of questions I get are laughable. Actually, it's often not presented as questions but more as facts and I have to try to inform them in a polite manner how wrong their "facts" really are. Often times, before I even finish my statement I'm hit with yet another "fact" in some sort of machine gun like fashion which is nearly impossible to even pace. It's exhausting and at this point, quite honestly, I don't even care.
Simply put, I'm driving the most amazing car I've ever driven every day of my life. It's like driving the future and it has improved my quality of life in countless ways that are difficult to even quantify to someone who hasn't experienced one for themselves. Early on I felt compelled to bring this revelation to people who didn't even know it was out there but now... I just don't give a hobo's crap what other people do. If they're hell-bent on keeping their horse-drawn carriage and convincing everyone (and mostly themselves) all of the ways it's better... go right on ahead. At this point, I codln't care less what you drive and only wish anti-Tesla people just took the same approach.
I love cars & trucks. Always have. It's been a passion for the better part of my life. I've prided myself in working on and modifying (heavily) most everything I've owned from cheap beaters to high-end sports cars and toys. I feel as though I'm a qualified person to give proper reviews on such things and the cars are just amazing. Full stop. No qualifiers or things like "best EV" or "best sedan" are needed. It's easily the best vehicle I've ever owned in every single category and makes no compromises to do so. Some will say a range of "only" 300-400 miles is a compromise but I never once exceeded that distance in any ICE vehicle I ever own so to all but 0.001% this is irrelevant. The real interesting data point though is how much my wife loves it and how much it's improved her quality of life. She's admittedly NOT a car person. Now, after about a year of driving her Model S she's 100% in love with her car and gushes about it regularly.
But hey, people can just stick their heads in the sand because change is scary.
Early on I felt compelled to bring this revelation to people who didn't even know it was out there but now... I just don't give a hobo's crap what other people do.
Seven month long thread says otherwise.
Really glad you like your car but the evangelizing is likely turning more people off than on.
The problem is when people who are anti-EV see "real statistics" supporting the pro-EV movement that is inevitably coming they just chalk it up to "Church of Tesla" and don't put in their own research to qualify or disqualify these findings themselves. That's too hard in this day of instant info where information is spewed at light speed regardless of if it's fact-based or not.
The amount if ignorance out there being parroted by people as fact by people who don't know the first thing about what they're talking about is nearly impossible to combat at this point. When I pull up places and am met by people who don't know what the hell an EV is the types of questions I get are laughable. Actually, it's often not presented as questions but more as facts and I have to try to inform them in a polite manner how wrong their "facts" really are. Often times, before I even finish my statement I'm hit with yet another "fact" in some sort of machine gun like fashion which is nearly impossible to even pace. It's exhausting and at this point, quite honestly, I don't even care.
Simply put, I'm driving the most amazing car I've ever driven every day of my life. It's like driving the future and it has improved my quality of life in countless ways that are difficult to even quantify to someone who hasn't experienced one for themselves. Early on I felt compelled to bring this revelation to people who didn't even know it was out there but now... I just don't give a hobo's crap what other people do. If they're hell-bent on keeping their horse-drawn carriage and convincing everyone (and mostly themselves) all of the ways it's better... go right on ahead. At this point, I codln't care less what you drive and only wish anti-Tesla people just took the same approach.
I love cars & trucks. Always have. It's been a passion for the better part of my life. I've prided myself in working on and modifying (heavily) most everything I've owned from cheap beaters to high-end sports cars and toys. I feel as though I'm a qualified person to give proper reviews on such things and the cars are just amazing. Full stop. No qualifiers or things like "best EV" or "best sedan" are needed. It's easily the best vehicle I've ever owned in every single category and makes no compromises to do so. Some will say a range of "only" 300-400 miles is a compromise but I never once exceeded that distance in any ICE vehicle I ever own so to all but 0.001% this is irrelevant. The real interesting data point though is how much my wife loves it and how much it's improved her quality of life. She's admittedly NOT a car person. Now, after about a year of driving her Model S she's 100% in love with her car and gushes about it regularly.
But hey, people can just stick their heads in the sand because change is scary.
Meh. Your statements are just as biased as theirs. One might say if their head is in the sand, yours is in the clouds.
The statements that "Multiple studies have shown that Total Cost of Ownership of a Tesla is lower over the long term than comparable ICE-powered vehicles." Is completely open to interpretation so much so it sounds like propaganda to me.
Ev technology is really neat. I personally hope it continues to evolve, especially the application of semis. However it's not anywhere near where it needs to be for me to consider putting my money into it.
I read this kind of statement and have to wonder how long is "long term"? The model S only started shipping in late 2012.
The additional cost of electric vs. ICE often takes many years (sometimes around 10) to ever recover the purchase price difference. Now that the US is a net exporter of oil, gas prices are remaining reasonable. A Nissan Leaf avg. sale price is $28,683 and an ICE Versa is $13,932. At $2.50/gallon, that's about 5,900 gallons (546 fill-ups) worth of cost difference.
Oil changes/filters are not what they used to be with modern synthetic oils (often annual/10K miles).
Cost per mile with electric is still cheaper than gas, even at $2.50, assuming you aren't super charging, which you won't do for 95% of the time. I'm not sure where you're getting 10,000 miles between oil changes. I can tell you that my car is supposed to get them every 3,000, and the idiot light on the dash comes on promptly at 5,000.
On top of that, with an EV there's no need for all of the regular maintance that shows up at 60k, 120k, etc. miles. There's no valves or spark plugs or any of that other stuff. Brake jobs are much fewer and far between due to the fact that the brakes see much less wear due to regenerative braking.
The other thing I have to wonder is what is the comparative mileage on the Teslas vs. ICE vehicles? I could see the mileage limitations and charge times of EV keeping average mileage lower. There's also likely much more down time for repeated recharging vs. annual ICE servicing.
Charge times aren't an issue for any situation outside of a long-range trip. Most EV owners have a charging station installed at home and they just plug in the car when they get home from work and it charges overnight, so it's not like the average EV owner is standing around waiting on their vehicle to charge. I would expect that most EV owners spend way less time waiting around at a super charger than an ICE owner spends standing around at gas stations in a given year for this very reason.
EVs are often heavier than ICE due to the batteries. The electric motors also have quite a bit of torque. What is the delta on tire wear between EVs and ICE?
Would love to see some real statistics that aren't coming from the Church of Tesla.
I've seen no indication that EVs have faster tire wear than ICE vehicles. I would expect that as long as you aren't launching from every red light in Ludicrous mode that tire wear between EVs and ICE cars is probably comparable.
Seven month long thread says otherwise.
Really glad you like your car but the evangelizing is likely turning more people off than on.
Seems more like a religion than anything, including the "revelation". There's a lot of supposition, but no data.
My comparison in breaking even on the increased cost of going EV vs. ICE didn't even question the cost of charging. Any cost to charging extends the time from initial purchase difference to break-even.
If you're not aware of newer vehicles with 10K/1-year service cycles, that's not my fault.
Justin, if you buy good oil, and your before doesn't leak or burn oil, 10,000 miles is very do-able. I think we were discussing it in the PWT, where you don't hang out, but I was on a 5,000 mile schedule for oil changes in my van. I got behind and changed at 7,200. Before I did I checked the dipstick to see if I was leaking or burning. To my surprise, not only was the level fine, but the oil was still half golden. I've changed the oil in my Amigo at only 2,000 miles and it was completely black. Once I saw that, I switched to a 10,000 mile schedule. I took a picture of the dipstick. My van had 230,000 miles at the time.
I'll let Gman tell you about the factory vehicles that call for a 10k schedule.
Meh. Your statements are just as biased as theirs. One might say if their head is in the sand, yours is in the clouds.
The statements that "Multiple studies have shown that Total Cost of Ownership of a Tesla is lower over the long term than comparable ICE-powered vehicles." Is completely open to interpretation so much so it sounds like propaganda to me.
Ev technology is really neat. I personally hope it continues to evolve, especially the application of semis. However it's not anywhere near where it needs to be for me to consider putting my money into it.
I fail to see how the TCO for a Tesla being less than a comparable ICE-powered car could be anything but fact. Cost per mile driven for electricity is less than gasoline, and EVs don't have a ton of moving parts or the required regular maintenance to keep them going.
But whatever, for reference, here's the maintenance Tesla recommends for their vehicles:
https://www.tesla.com/support/car-maintenance
Car Maintenance
Tesla engineers continuously review maintenance recommendations to optimize the performance, reliability, durability, safety and resell value of your Tesla.
Unlike gasoline cars, Tesla cars require no traditional oil changes, fuel filters, spark plug replacements or emission checks. As electric cars, even brake pad replacements are rare because regenerative braking returns energy to the battery, significantly reducing wear on brakes.
Please check your Owner’s Manual for latest maintenance recommendations for your Tesla.
Recommended Maintenance Service
Cabin Air Filter
Your Tesla is equipped with an air filter that prevents pollen, industrial fallout, road dust and other particles from entering through the vents. Tesla recommends replacing your cabin air filter every 2 years.
High Efficiency Particulate Air (HEPA) Filter
If your Tesla is equipped with a HEPA filter, Tesla recommends replacing it every 3 years.
Tire Rotation, Balance and Wheel Alignment
Tesla recommends checking your tires every 10,000-12,000 miles for rotating, balancing and aligning needs. Aggressive driving can lead to premature tire wear and may require more frequent tire service. Unbalanced and misaligned wheels affect handling, tire life and steering components. Refer to tire manufacturer's owner manuals and warranty documentation for additional details.
Brake Fluid Test
Tesla recommends testing brake fluid for contamination every 2 years and replacing as needed.
Air Conditioning Service
An air conditioning service replaces the desiccant to help the longevity and efficiency of the air conditioning system. Tesla recommends an air conditioning service every 2 years for Model S, every 4 years for Model X and every 6 years for Model 3.
Winter Care
Tesla recommends cleaning and lubricating all brake calipers every 12 months or 12,500 mi for cars in cold weather regions.
Schedule Maintenance Service
Schedule a maintenance service appointment in the Tesla app.
Seems more like a religion than anything, including the "revelation". There's a lot of supposition, but no data.
My comparison in breaking even on the increased cost of going EV vs. ICE didn't even question the cost of charging. Any cost to charging extends the time from initial purchase difference to break-even.
If you're not aware of newer vehicles with 10K/1-year service cycles, that's not my fault.
Not sure what you mean by no data. Tesla vehicles have had a ton of data compiled on them by multiple parties ranging from studies and metastudies to user-reported information down to individual vehicles.
Here's an article about the highest-mileage Tesla on the roads:
https://insideevs.com/news/339110/highest-mileage-tesla-now-has-over-420000-miles/
Here's a link to a leaderboard for highest mileage Tesla vehicles:
https://sites.google.com/view/teslamiles
Here's a website where you can punch in costs of electricity, gas, and how far you drive and get an idea of the cost delta:
https://teslanomics.co/tesla-monthly-charging-cost-calculator/
There's other sources of data as well, if you're willing to look.
Seems more like a religion than anything, including the "revelation". There's a lot of supposition, but no data.
My comparison in breaking even on the increased cost of going EV vs. ICE didn't even question the cost of charging. Any cost to charging extends the time from initial purchase difference to break-even.
If you're not aware of newer vehicles with 10K/1-year service cycles, that's not my fault.
You'll have to forgive me, I'm not the sort of person who enjoys assidiously studying the oil change requirements for vehicles that I don't own.
You'll have to forgive me, I'm not the sort of person who enjoys assidiously studying the oil change requirements for vehicles that I don't own.
Oh...the irony.
Bailey Guns
10-02-2019, 13:16
Both my diesels go to between 7k and 8k on oil changes. The oil changes, at least for what I own (an F250 and a Cruze), are determined by an idiot msg in the driver information system. Both GM and Ford say to just schedule the oil change when the car tells you it's around 10% left.
Are good USED Tesla w/reliable battery under 15k yet?
If they do free super charging station thing, I will be interested after i get the llc set up near future.
Zundfolge
10-02-2019, 14:17
The oil changes, at least for what I own (an F250 and a Cruze), are determined by an idiot msg in the driver information system. Both GM and Ford say to just schedule the oil change when the car tells you it's around 10% left.
Keep in mind that if you have any GDI engine you should really be changing the oil every 5000 miles regardless of what the idiot msg in the driver info system says. At least until may of next year when the new GF-6A oil hits the market.
Are good USED Tesla w/reliable battery under 15k yet?
If they do free super charging station thing, I will be interested after i get the llc set up near future.
They aren't. Tesla vehicles tend to hold their value quite well. Last time I looked used Model S's were still in the $40-$50k range.
Keep in mind that if you have any GDI engine you should really be changing the oil every 5000 miles regardless of what the idiot msg in the driver info system says. At least until may of next year when the new GF-6A oil hits the market.
You can always do oil analysis and let that drive your intervals.
Zundfolge
10-02-2019, 18:50
They aren't. Tesla vehicles tend to hold their value quite well. Last time I looked used Model S's were still in the $40-$50k range.
Or you could do like Rich (http://richrebuilds.com/) and rebuild a salvage Tesla for pennies on the dollar ... just don't weld in flip-flops like he does.
I made the mistake of welding in Crocs early on.
I knew solar energy was a zero factor in energy production, and that has been proven out. Solar Energy is absolutely worthless for energy production.
So, now they have these big huge windmills...
-John {it's better than solar}
I knew solar energy was a zero factor in energy production, and that has been proven out. Solar Energy is absolutely worthless for energy production.
So, now they have these big huge windmills...
-John {it's better than solar}
It's been proven out? ROFL
1.6% is good?
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3
-John
Just think of all the money and resources being wasted in "renewable energy" by your Government, which is 22 Trillion Dollars in debt.
-John
fright88
10-02-2019, 22:25
Or you could do like Rich (http://richrebuilds.com/) and rebuild a salvage Tesla for pennies on the dollar ... just don't weld in flip-flops like he does.
Except that people like Rich and Samcrac and others have popularized this idea and the price of those cars has risen drastically on the salvage market at least from what Ive seen. Rich even mentioned it a while back. Still not a terrible idea if you have the money up front for the project. Also worth mentioning for Rich to do his 6k Model S (I think that is the right number) he had to buy 2 cars combine them and sell the remains.
And yes I am a Rich fanboy :)
Or you could do like Rich (http://richrebuilds.com/) and rebuild a salvage Tesla for pennies on the dollar ... just don't weld in flip-flops like he does.
That would require an entire category of tools, time, and skills that I don't have. :(
That said, his videos are fascinating to watch.
Zundfolge
10-03-2019, 09:51
That would require an entire category of tools, time, and skills that I don't have. :(
Yeah and as far as I remember you don't even have a single pair of flip-flops.
That said, a Tesla that just needs a battery rebuild is something you could easily do.
But that said, if you had the tools, time and skills it would still be wise to stay away from one that had been in a flood ... that flooded Tesla Rich rebuilt is going to have problems down the road. And they're going to be weird electrical problems that would cause him to pull out his hair if he wasn't already bald.
Assuming sandals count, I actually do own two pairs of flip flops, and I wear them about as often as I wear shorts.
Or you could do like Rich (http://richrebuilds.com/) and rebuild a salvage Tesla for pennies on the dollar ... just don't weld in flip-flops like he does.
One thing I've wondered...would it be possible to use Tesla battery packs to power a rail gun that fits precision rifle specs?
After all, if that battery can move a car from 0-60 in 5 seconds, how fast can it push a 175 grain match king?
Good luck on carrying that around. [Coffee]
The system that I have envisioned for an initial prototype likely wouldn't be man portable, but would be more akin to a bench rest setup with an external power source.
Of course, one of the use cases that's been floated for EVs is that they could be used to power external devices, so it would be cool to just be able to plug the rifle setup into your car and go to town.
The system that I have envisioned for an initial prototype likely wouldn't be man portable, but would be more akin to a bench rest setup with an external power source.
Of course, one of the use cases that's been floated for EVs is that they could be used to power external devices, so it would be cool to just be able to plug the rifle setup into your car and go to town.
Sounds like a whole new kind of 'drive-by'.
They are testing hybrid airplanes to island hop in Hawaii. Makes a lot of sense for short flights.
https://mauinow.com/2020/12/09/hybrid-electric-aircraft-conducts-first-flight-trials-on-maui/
Great-Kazoo
12-10-2020, 18:01
They are testing hybrid airplanes to island hop in Hawaii. Makes a lot of sense for short flights.
https://mauinow.com/2020/12/09/hybrid-electric-aircraft-conducts-first-flight-trials-on-maui/
Only short hops as most extension cords kind of fall short, on longer trips.
How much fuel is consumed to generate the electricity to fly?
Aloha_Shooter
12-10-2020, 19:05
Power generation at normal power plants is generally much more efficient than internal combustion or even turbine engines used for transportation. "Hybrid" means it's a combination of stored and generated power, generally to be more efficient. For airframes, you're trading weight of the batteries needed for the flight versus the weight of conventional fuels and the respective weights of the engines necessary for thrust. I could see electric or hybrid engines plus energy storage being more efficient than traditional engines for short hops. For longer flights, they're going to have to overcome the energy density and weight problems.
How much fuel is consumed to generate the electricity to fly?
The article makes a point of stating that it's cheaper to charge the batteries than to purchase fuel, so it doesn't matter.
Getting a full charge without increasing the weight is an intresting thing I hadn't thought of though.
Edit. Ignore me. I'm not thinking clearly.
Of course this will work on those regular ICE with propeller. In order jet to work from electrical energy to chemical energy, convert to kerosene would need alien technology. (Or push of gods hand from heaven).
So. Yes shorter regional type with propellers would work.
As aloha said, biggest factor would be mass of x gal gas weight vs battery mass.
https://knisleyexhaust.com/blog/how-much-aircraft-fuel-does-a-propeller-airplane-consume/
Change in total
Only short hops as most extension cords kind of fall short, on longer trips.
That reminds me of Halo's space elevator.
https://halo.fandom.com/wiki/Space_elevator
Great-Kazoo
12-10-2020, 21:39
Edit. Ignore me. I'm not thinking clearly.
Today ?
https://youtu.be/UskzfQJt2Bc
So I keep seeing these ads for EASTER made by California company Alphawolf, and they really remind me of 1970's Datsuns in styling.
https://youtu.be/k6JMoMQHvNA
https://youtu.be/BQNW-eiXRR4
Pretty cool.
I had one of these bad boys back in the mid 80's. Used it as our 2nd car when I couldn't ride the MC.
https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/1976_datsun_b210_1549315429a29fe547dfd32IMG_201901 29_164637.jpg?fit=940%2C705
I want the CUV in a diesel with a lift and El Camino style mini-bed.
Great styling. If those things don't suck, they will sell like hot cakes.
Pretty cool.
I had one of these bad boys back in the mid 80's. Used it as our 2nd car when I couldn't ride the MC.
https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/1976_datsun_b210_1549315429a29fe547dfd32IMG_201901 29_164637.jpg?fit=940%2C705
Man. That almost looks identical to the 1977 Datsun B210 that I learned to drive on. Same yellow ish color and everything. Brings back memories of youth and debauchery.
Great-Kazoo
04-01-2021, 21:28
Man. That almost looks identical to the 1977 Datsun B210 that I learned to drive on. Same yellow ish color and everything. Brings back memories of youth and debauchery.
Ah it's all clear now. The datsun's color morphed in to a cheeto's fixation.
Man. That almost looks identical to the 1977 Datsun B210 that I learned to drive on. Same yellow ish color and everything. Brings back memories of youth and debauchery.
I learned to drive tractor and pickup around 12 or so, but I bought my first car from my parents and took my test in a 1970 (or was it a 71?) Duster with a slant 6 and 3-speed on the floor. Installed a 4-bbl setup and a few other go fast parts (lol @slant 6) but it would eat stock small blocks until it finally seized up. Later upgraded to a built 340TA motor and 4-speed stick. Then I stupidly sold it and bought a 65 Mustang Notchback 289HO. Then went in the Army and had brother sell the Mustang in 1981 while I was in Germany.
Same color, wheels. Not actual car.
https://i.imgur.com/8ED9n8c.png
I feel like the days of kids learning to drive early are nearing an end. I mean not me. I let my daughter drive the Amigo on the highway when she was 10. It's not what you're thinking though. Then when I got a manual I taught her to drive that when she was 12. It's amazing how quick kids pick things up. She was starting in 2nd and pulling a trailer (empty) by her second time. She did tow the trailer behind the Amigo for 13 miles on dirt roads one year on a hunting trip.
Some ev without transmission, many would not know what manual transmission or gearbox is.
I feel like the days of kids learning to drive early are nearing an end. I mean not me. I let my daughter drive the Amigo on the highway when she was 10. It's not what you're thinking though. Then when I got a manual I taught her to drive that when she was 12. It's amazing how quick kids pick things up. She was starting in 2nd and pulling a trailer (empty) by her second time. She did tow the trailer behind the Amigo for 13 miles on dirt roads one year on a hunting trip.
Not just that, there is a surprising and growing number of teenagers that have no intent to learn how to drive at all.
And once the tech any regulation advances a few more years (4-5 years, I am guessing) they probably will never have to.
Aloha_Shooter
04-02-2021, 12:12
Not just that, there is a surprising and growing number of teenagers that have no intent to learn how to drive at all.
And once the tech any regulation advances a few more years (4-5 years, I am guessing) they probably will never have to.
My youngest nephew is one of those. 19 years old and he would still rather be the passenger than drive. He let his learners permit expire (I think on purpose) and hasn't bothered to renew it in order to get a license. He just sees no need for it -- he has a passport if he needs a photo ID and I think he'd rather play games on his iPhone than drive.
.455_Hunter
04-02-2021, 12:24
My 15 year old son is progressing through his drivers training on-line class and anxious to get to real training.
I know of a woman in her 30's, with two children, that just never bothered to learn to drive. Seems pretty irresponsible to me.
Surprisingly many NYC adults do not have driver's license.
Surprisingly many NYC adults do not have driver's license.
Yep, I used to work with a lady who spent 18 years in NYC so when she eventually moved to CO she had to buy a car and get over her fear after not driving herself anywhere for nearly 2 decades. She literally chose where to live based on how many turns it was from her new job.... not mileage, turns....
That's not surprising for New York. Parking spaces are something like $700+ a month.
Well, i am going to bring the "POST A PICTURE OF YOUR LATEST PURCHASE" to here.
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/42773-Post-a-picture-of-your-latest-purchase?p=2358911&viewfull=1#post2358911
It wasn't the environmental or quietness that got me into this vehicle. It was financial decision. I still have one gas guzzler that I am definitely keeping, but I am now saving $ on gas, and time to wait on Costco gas station.
I only charged at a free level 2 public charging station once for about 1 hour while eating dinner. That as equivalent to about ~1 gal of gas for FREE. :D
One thing people do not mention is also the brake. It has Regenerative braking paddle shifter from level 0 to 3, and I can try to brake by doing that. It will convert KE to electrical energy, instead of conventional KE to heat energy (rotor and pad friction). That being said, less wear on pad and rotor for longer replacement interval.
Well, i am going to bring the "POST A PICTURE OF YOUR LATEST PURCHASE" to here.
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/42773-Post-a-picture-of-your-latest-purchase?p=2358911&viewfull=1#post2358911
It wasn't the environmental or quietness that got me into this vehicle. It was financial decision. I still have one gas guzzler that I am definitely keeping, but I am now saving $ on gas, and time to wait on Costco gas station.
I only charged at a free level 2 public charging station once for about 1 hour while eating dinner. That as equivalent to about ~1 gal of gas for FREE. :D
One thing people do not mention is also the brake. It has Regenerative braking paddle shifter from level 0 to 3, and I can try to brake by doing that. It will convert KE to electrical energy, instead of conventional KE to heat energy (rotor and pad friction). That being said, less wear on pad and rotor for longer replacement interval.
I like the hybrid f150. They come with the regen braking. Coming down a hill with a trailer would probably net quite a bit of charge
I like the hybrid f150. They come with the regen braking. Coming down a hill with a trailer would probably net quite a bit of charge
That's what I would have thought, but it certainly didn't work out that way for the new Rivian.
http://youtu.be/Zce-wC__kkU
BushMasterBoy
02-12-2022, 17:52
Pueblo is building a steel mill that is solar powered. The mill produces rails for trains. They say it will require 750,000 solar panels to power the mill. I wouldn't be surprised if this power is also used for an electric train servicing the front range. I also wouldn't be surprised if a grid was made for EV's using this source. What do you do with all that power when you are not making steel rail?
https://www.cpr.org/2022/02/02/pueblo-solar-powered-steel-mill-evraz/
That's what I would have thought, but it certainly didn't work out that way for the new Rivian.
http://youtu.be/Zce-wC__kkU
That isn't the result I was expecting.... hmmmm
What do you do with all that power when you are not making steel rail?
Pumped storage. (https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703960004575427092861731122)
O2
Not sure why everyone hates dinosaurs.
They sacrificed themselves so that we could enjoy internal combustion engines so I plan to honor their sacrifice as long as possible.
Not sure why everyone hates dinosaurs.
They sacrificed themselves so that we could enjoy internal combustion engines so I plan to honor their sacrifice as long as possible.
Yeah and we need to pump more like we did few years ago. It was -28/barrel contract?
I also do not like OpEC and Russia trying to play around with nat gas and oil supply.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/gs-waymarking-images/20762198-9c2e-4e08-a96d-afd7f2e8bf20_l.JPG
BPTactical
02-12-2022, 23:20
Fuck EV
You will NEVER get this from EV.
https://youtu.be/ZSPtWqjj7Ig
I like the hybrid f150. They come with the regen braking. Coming down a hill with a trailer would probably net quite a bit of charge
I decide to do some reading. We probably see Chemical to Mechaincal+heat (work and heat) efficiencies og engine/work, but KE to electrical on regen brake is still kinda new.
Regenerative braking allows the range of the EV to be extended; however, the efficiency of capturing this energy is reported to vary from 16% to 70% (Boretti, 2013). The reason for this significant difference in efficiency will depend on the driver's style of driving whether they brake gradually or severely. Furthermore, temperature of the system and outside ambient temperature affect the efficiency greatly. The driving technique of the driver is a considerable factor when calculating the efficiency of the regenerative braking system. Friction brake pads are installed in the EV to allow for more rapid braking as opposed to slow braking with the regenerative braking system. The utilization of the friction brakes results in the efficiency of the regenerative system to vary.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/regenerative-braking#:~:text=Regenerative%20braking%20allows%20 the%20range,they%20brake%20gradually%20or%20severe ly.
Chemical energy ->Kinetic Energy -> electrical energy from regeneration would be substantially lower.
BPTactical
02-13-2022, 08:16
Or this:
https://youtu.be/PyvodTwy2Ek
I like the hybrid f150. They come with the regen braking. Coming down a hill with a trailer would probably net quite a bit of charge
Having owned a Hybrid I will say that they are probably not the best of both worlds but the worst. Sure, you save a few bucks on gas but keep in mind that you are getting all of the potential failure points of an ICE vehicle as well as all of the potential failure points of an EV. IMO they were a decent bridge until battery tech could replace ICE for most applications but it won't be around for long. One of the best parts of having an EV is the sheer simplicity of it all. It's a glorified gold cart: batteries, drive motor(s) and the wires and computers to make it all work. Add in suspension, brakes and seats and you have an EV. Once we start seeing more and more on the road with hundreds of thousands of miles chugging along with a slightly diminished range and zero other performance hits I think people who doubt their reliability will see the light.
That's what I would have thought, but it certainly didn't work out that way for the new Rivian.
http://youtu.be/Zce-wC__kkU
This is a super cool truck. I would have one in my garage already if it wasn't for the question mark concerning service centers in this region. EVs don't need maintenance and rarely need service (especially after they've been established for a bit, moved some units and made some improvements based on feedback) but I still feel more comfortable knowing I can go someplace within an hour or so should I need to. These trucks are really cool though and I'm loving all of the new EVs finally coming to market. Their lack of nationwide service centers and charge infrastructure is the only thing keeping me from owning one currently. They'll get there though.
Not sure why everyone hates dinosaurs.
They sacrificed themselves so that we could enjoy internal combustion engines so I plan to honor their sacrifice as long as possible.
Not sure anyone here said anything about hating anything. I'm reasonable enough to realize that it's a finite resource (I think we can all agree on that... some want to run the fools errands of arguing just how finite that is) and whatever we can do to help preserve it isn't a bad thing. I want there to be more of it available for things that make less sense for EV technology like planes, cargo ships, trains and (at least for now) semi tractor trailers. I just think that for most of the population who drives passenger vehicles it's not only viable but likely a significant step forward in day-to-day experience. Most don't even know it though since the clear leader in the technology (Tesla) has a $0 advertising budget. That's also why you never hear anything counteract the FUD surrounding EVs other than owners like me who did the research, took a chance and are now reaping the rewards of being open minded.
Yeah and we need to pump more like we did few years ago. It was -28/barrel contract?
I also do not like OpEC and Russia trying to play around with nat gas and oil supply.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/gs-waymarking-images/20762198-9c2e-4e08-a96d-afd7f2e8bf20_l.JPG
Bingo. I hear people complaining about gas prices and I'm 100% oblivious to it. I literally haven't owned anything that consumes gasoline in years. Zero. People often want to argue the environmental impact of EVs because it's a hot debate but most lose sight of is the fact that electricity is made domestically. This means that my ENTIRE household's energy needs have been met domestically for years now. I haven't sent a thin dime to foreign interests in the Middle East or Russia. Say what you will, but these cars are engineered and made in the USA (California) and my energy to power them is all met domestically. This means domestic jobs and not supporting foreign interests. That's a big deal to me. So is putting a smoke detector in my garage never worrying about leaks on my garage floor ever again. [LOL]
Fuck EV
You will NEVER get this from EV.
https://youtu.be/ZSPtWqjj7Ig
F16's are pretty cool too. I can't afford to maintain them and surely will never be able to reach the limits of it's performance benefits on a regular basis. Not to mention the noise and vibrations are headache-inducing. Besides, my glorified golf cart beats them both from 0-60 which is more useful day-to-day anyway.
In all seriousness, why is this the debate? Like I'm threatening to take your alcohol dragsters or something? Hell, horses back riding is still a thing and we've been using vehicles as transportation for over a century now. I just see ICE cars falling into this category where it's more of a hobby and someone can own both for different reasons. I'm fully in support of that and nobody is trying to take anything for you so you're not "defending" anything when you shit on EVs. I don't really understand this mindset of negativity.
Or this:
https://youtu.be/PyvodTwy2Ek
Or this. :)
This is what I use to drive around until August 2019.
4.0 V8 8400rpm redline. It is 2nd or 3rd highest revving v8 road car besides Ferrari.
I needed haul more stuff, so I got a tacoma.
Taco did a good job hauling my stuffs over 2.5 years.
I disliked the mpg on taco relative to hp and really disliked their transmission.
BMW M3
https://youtu.be/SbT0IqFIfnc
M3 VS Ferrari 458
https://youtu.be/Ysg1D2JgIb8
OtterbatHellcat
02-13-2022, 22:50
I refuse to own an electric vehicle, and will fight against it as long as possible.
No problem and thank you.
Form 8936 only applies to 200,000 vehicles from manufacturer. So If I decide to get an ev again, i have potential to get an another 7500 (manuf puts 7500 towards cap reduction). I hope vw, hyundai sells less than 200k ev or phev around 2025, so that I can purchase or lease again with 7500 credit.
Thanks to those, I got it lower than mid end corolla lease.
Since mine was a lease, I can get 7500 on purchase or a lease after lease expires.
Environment is less of a concern for me. I am not rich enough to think about environment. I need to worry about efficiency in terms of revenue and cost. Leasing an ev wad the most cost efficient for my self employment in terms of accounting. :)
https://www.investopedia.com/electric-vehicle-ev-tax-credit-definition-5200911
I refuse to own an electric vehicle, and will fight against it as long as possible.
This is the mindset I don't understand. Do you actively fight against people who choose whole milk because you drink skim or vice versa? Why not just choose what you want/need and not feel the need to fight against items you don't?
Just like I don't feel the need to force EVs on you just because it was my choice. I do feel compelled to at least counter misinformation and offer up that they're FAR better then most people realize. They're also more viable for most people even though they don't realize it as well and likely think they they're vehicles made for someone else.
clodhopper
02-14-2022, 11:43
I dont care if you want to drive an EV if it works for you. Not a practical option where I am. The issue I have is the amount of taxpayer money being spent to subsidize EV purchases, tilt the economics of the industry and pick winners/losers. If EVs are truly a practical option, then EVs would become viable in an organic manner.
I dont care if you want to drive an EV if it works for you. Not a practical option where I am. The issue I have is the amount of taxpayer money being spent to subsidize EV purchases, tilt the economics of the industry and pick winners/losers. If EVs are truly a practical option, then EVs would become viable in an organic manner.
It not only works for me but is the best vehicle I've ever owned in a long list of pretty nice vehicles if I do say so myself. I've been a car guy whole life and have always done my own work as well as modifications so I tend to think my experience is worthy of bringing up compared to the average driver who doesn't even know how many cylinders their car has. As to it not being an option where you are... I don't have enough details to say if that's the case. I assume you have electricity so, at least from a fundamental standpoint, I would say it is. It seems more details would be needed to see why you determined flatly that it isn't an option. My good friend lives North of Scottsbluff Nebraska outside of Minatare on a farm loves his Tesla Model S. He's a lot further from a large city or whatever it is you think you need access to to own an EV.
Preaching to the choir on that last statement. If you ever pop into the EV/Tesla forums/groups to tell them how not interested you are in EVs ( ;) ) you'll find me attempting to champion the cause of how stupid most all subsidies are. Lots of pro-EV people often cite just how heavily subsidized the gas/oil industry is and how how long that's been going on. Tough to argue with that when discussing a "fair" playing field but I'd rather see them eliminate ALL subsidies and stop trying to pick winners but... this is the political climate we live in currently as much as I don't approve. Also a totally different conversation.
Honestly, I kinda wish we would have started a new thread to discuss EVs openly and honestly rather than in this thread. From the start, I despised that it features a click-bait title that already gets people in entirely the wrong headspace before they even read the content within. I think a lot of people on this forum in particular aren't open to new concepts or anything that goes against what they've held to be true forever. They also tend to have some incredibly outdated information as it pertains to this topic with which they base their decision. I think it would be far more beneficial to everyone here if we had a neutral titled thread where people could just have a nice respectful back and forth to hopefully get new info (positive & negative) to add to their list to consider during their next buying decision. If EVs still aren't for you, cool. Just make that decision from a strong point of knowledge rather than something you heard once from someone a while back.
Cant be half pregnant. Either get rid of ALL or not complaint about subsidies.
To even a playing field, we need to get rid of ALL Agricultural subsidies.
Here comes $8/dozen egg and $10 gal milk!
Good bye to $10 lbs streak. It will be $35 lbs without subsidies.
Here comes cheap central American agricultural foods to US!
Eta: some really take Ricardian, Heckscher?Ohlin, and Stolper?Samuelson theory to beyond feasible limitation.
It might be best for entire 300mil population making semi conductors and software developing @optimum level of output (assuming there are demand for all), but someone has to clean toilet. Someone has to farm and butcher meat. Someone had to make automobile.
Yes those models work but not everyone can do same shit. This is very reason some jobs like fast food and markets wages are increasing.
If all 10/10 wanna be president and no wh toilet cleaner, toilet cleaning wage will increase to fill the labor demand with tax payers $. This why idiots only complaints about their 400k wage job, and cry about fast working making $20/hr is unfair.
Same goes with agriculture and other subs.
Need to diversify. What if all eu adopt solar and we are still nat gassing?
We just lost market share to potentially export many of our solar stuff to eu.
Martinjmpr
02-14-2022, 13:57
Subsidies aren't necessarily a bad thing. Anything you get a tax break on is in reality a subsidy. Home ownership, child care, charitable donations, education - I could go on.
There's also nothing new about government offering subsidies to benefit specific industries or to incentivize specific behavior. You think the West would have been settled if not for the 160 free acres of land offered to settlers through the Homestead Act? Or that mining would have flourished if not for the "subsidies" (in the form of royalty-free minerals) in the General Mining Law of 1872? Or that the Transcontinental Railroad would have been built if the builders hadn't been granted big chunks of land in exchange for building track?
Depending on how you characterize it, the oil and gas industry is very heavily "subsidized" by the US taxpayer. From 1872 until the Mineral Leasing Act of 1920, oil companies pumped tens of millions of dollars of oil out of public land and didn't pay so much as a single cent for it. Even the current scheme of oil and gas leasing has producers paying less in royalties than they would pay to private land owners, so that's a "subsidy" too.
And what are import duties on imported products if not a "subsidy" to the domestic producers of the same product (by giving a price break to the buyer of a domestic product?)
So I really don't have an issue with EV subsidies. I'm skeptical about the practicalities of EVs for all purpose use and I'm skeptical about the capacity of our current electrical grid to support widespread adoption of EVs. The other issue is that the current crop of EVs are suited for suburban-dwellers who have a garage and a place to plug in. Those who live in older neighborhoods, big cities, etc, where they have no garage, driveway or parking lot and might have to park 2 blocks away from their apartment - where do they plug in?
clodhopper
02-14-2022, 14:03
As to it not being an option where you are... I don't have enough details to say if that's the case. I assume you have electricity so, at least from a fundamental standpoint, I would say it is. It seems more details would be needed to see why you determined flatly that it isn't an option. My good friend lives North of Scottsbluff Nebraska outside of Minatare on a farm loves his Tesla Model S. He's a lot further from a large city or whatever it is you think you need access to to own an EV.
You know how it goes when you "assume"? I didnt say an EV could work but I dont like them. I said it doesnt work for where I live. I am glad for your Tesla friend in Nebraska. I dunno his situation and you dont know mine.
To each his own. The technology isnt quite to the point that it would work for me. I am sure that time is coming. We will see.
clodhopper
02-14-2022, 14:17
Subsidies aren't necessarily a bad thing. Anything you get a tax break on is in reality a subsidy. Home ownership, child care, charitable donations, education - I could go on.
There's also nothing new about government offering subsidies to benefit specific industries or to incentivize specific behavior. You think the West would have been settled if not for the 160 free acres of land offered to settlers through the Homestead Act? Or that mining would have flourished if not for the "subsidies" (in the form of royalty-free minerals) in the General Mining Law of 1872? Or that the Transcontinental Railroad would have been built if the builders hadn't been granted big chunks of land in exchange for building track?
Depending on how you characterize it, the oil and gas industry is very heavily "subsidized" by the US taxpayer. From 1872 until the Mineral Leasing Act of 1920, oil companies pumped tens of millions of dollars of oil out of public land and didn't pay so much as a single cent for it. Even the current scheme of oil and gas leasing has producers paying less in royalties than they would pay to private land owners, so that's a "subsidy" too.
And what are import duties on imported products if not a "subsidy" to the domestic producers of the same product (by giving a price break to the buyer of a domestic product?)
I dont disagree with you. I am not saying that subsidies are always wrong. However, many do not. We subsidize everything anymore. When/how does the invisible hand of the free market work to everyone's favor when the govt is prespending your taxes on goods/services you didnt want in the first place? For example, mandated ethanol in our gas. EV cars are just one of a million things that are not essential, have their own environmental issues, yet the govt is spending our tax money to support EV makers directly and subsidizing buyers as well. If all that money is being spent, then either the product is not that good, or the people dont really want it. My suspicion is the technology has not reached the point where the product is cheaper than the alternatives, or equivalent anyway. That time is coming and when it does, people will be clamoring for the things and the govt wont need to push it.
We dont need the federal government twiddling every aspect of our lives and making decisions for us. Or maybe it is just the way I look at things.
Again, to each his own. If an EV fits your life, great. An no, I have no issues with people taking advantage of EV purchase subsidies. The program was voted in and you would be stupid to not use it. I also advocate that people take advantage of every tax deduction possible. I would rather see our political environment moving away from caretaker status.
I think the "not practical" is a valid argument when.
1. Weather is very cold (lithium batteries are stored cold when they want to put batteries into "hibernation")
2. Long distance driving involved
3. Trailer towing or heavy loads (especially with long distances).
Gasoline / Diesel definitely has the advantage over batteries with 1) amount of energy that can be carried on a vehicle and 2) speed at which the energy can be replaced.
What I envision in my future (not immediate) is there will probably be mix of electric and hydrocarbon fueled vehicles. I could see keeping my pickup for the reasons listed above, but for a "city car" or "daily driver" electric would probably be really good.
I have heard that batteries typically last about 10 years before requiring replacement and the cost to replace can run you about $4k. A big negative for me as I tend to hold onto my vehicles for 15-20 years. My Toyotas/Hondas have easily done that with little or no repairs required.
If battery life is an issue, I also wonder the impact to the used EV car market. I would expect technology to make improvements in the areas of battery life/replacement cost, range and charge time.
You know how it goes when you "assume"? I didnt say an EV could work but I dont like them. I said it doesnt work for where I live. I am glad for your Tesla friend in Nebraska. I dunno his situation and you dont know mine.
To each his own. The technology isnt quite to the point that it would work for me. I am sure that time is coming. We will see.
Right, because you didn't bother to share your situation so I'm forced to make ASSumptions in order to further the conversation.
You make a blanket statement like "EVs don't work for me" without offering a single hint of a reason as to why. Then, when someone engages with you in an effort to have a friendly 2-way conversation about it because they're genuinely interested in what that reason is, you offer nothing other than ridicule and more inflammatory words.
Good talk. Super constructive.
If I had a nickel for every person who told me "EVs don't work for me" over the years and now owns one (with the only regret being not doing it sooner) I'd probably have enough to buy a nice cold beer to drink by now. Not a Coors either. One of those fancy brewery beers that they're so proud of and price accordingly. But I guess you're just "the one" huh Neo? No sense even discussing it respectfully.
colorider
02-14-2022, 16:50
I have heard that batteries typically last about 10 years before requiring replacement and the cost to replace can run you about $4k. A big negative for me as I tend to hold onto my vehicles for 15-20 years. My Toyotas/Hondas have easily done that with little or no repairs required.
If battery life is an issue, I also wonder the impact to the used EV car market. I would expect technology to make improvements in the areas of battery life/replacement cost, range and charge time.
Try more like $20k or more to replace an EV battery pack. Electric motorcycle battery packs are running 4-5g right now.
I have heard that batteries typically last about 10 years before requiring replacement and the cost to replace can run you about $4k. A big negative for me as I tend to hold onto my vehicles for 15-20 years. My Toyotas/Hondas have easily done that with little or no repairs required.
If battery life is an issue, I also wonder the impact to the used EV car market. I would expect technology to make improvements in the areas of battery life/replacement cost, range and charge time.
Lithium Ion batteries lose capacity each time they are discharged / recharged.
A VERY VERY good battery will have 60-70% battery life after 3000 cycles of CAREFUL charge-discharge. Fast depletion / fast charge hurts that cycle life (i.e. C/2 is much better then 2C charging). Getting them hot (think above 60C) will damage them quickly. Draining them down and fully charging them hurts them. Optimal (for cycle life) is keep battery 40-80% capacity. But then you only have 40% of design capacity that can be used.
Batteries have limits that one must learn to live with them to use them.
I actually started a new thread as this thread to discuss this since this thread was created for different reasons. It's become this weird amalgamation of heated debates sprinkled with useful info here and there. I wanted to create a new thread where people can discuss the topic more openly and respectfully rather than having to wade through this thread that jumped the shark years ago.
For anyone who wants to respectfully discuss EVs as a whole and post up any questions they may have, try here....
New thread: Open Discussion of all Things Electric Vehicle (aka EV) for Those Pro or Con, BE RESPECTFUL! (https://www.ar-15.co/threads/186767-Open-Discussion-of-all-Things-Electric-Vehicle-(aka-EV)-for-Those-Pro-or-Con-BE-RESPECTFUL!?p=2359251#post2359251)
I doubt I'll be following this one much longer.
I think the "not practical" is a valid argument when.
1. Weather is very cold (lithium batteries are stored cold when they want to put batteries into "hibernation")
2. Long distance driving involved
3. Trailer towing or heavy loads (especially with long distances).
Gasoline / Diesel definitely has the advantage over batteries with 1) amount of energy that can be carried on a vehicle and 2) speed at which the energy can be replaced.
What I envision in my future (not immediate) is there will probably be mix of electric and hydrocarbon fueled vehicles. I could see keeping my pickup for the reasons listed above, but for a "city car" or "daily driver" electric would probably be really good.
I "borrowed" this post to kick the conversation off over there. Hopefully you don't mind. [Beer] When (read: if) the commission check comes in for starting the thread I'll split it with you [LOL]
clodhopper
02-14-2022, 18:21
Right, because you didn't bother to share your situation so I'm forced to make ASSumptions in order to further the conversation.
You make a blanket statement like "EVs don't work for me" without offering a single hint of a reason as to why. Then, when someone engages with you in an effort to have a friendly 2-way conversation about it because they're genuinely interested in what that reason is, you offer nothing other than ridicule and more inflammatory words.
Good talk. Super constructive.
If I had a nickel for every person who told me "EVs don't work for me" over the years and now owns one (with the only regret being not doing it sooner) I'd probably have enough to buy a nice cold beer to drink by now. Not a Coors either. One of those fancy brewery beers that they're so proud of and price accordingly. But I guess you're just "the one" huh Neo? No sense even discussing it respectfully.
Wow. Thin skin much? What evil voice did you have turned on in your head when you read my post? I was just responding to your long winded challenge that there is no reason an EV wouldnt work for me cause *electrics*. I didnt realize I was expected to blather on about my life over a web forum to justify my stance that an EV is not the optimal vehicle for my life. I am glad it works for you, as I have said. To each his own.
Sheesh.
I will take both sides of the argument for 500 Alex.
Where I want to move to; EV would not work for me because the closest town is well over 75 miles...and that is just a township of about 500. A round
trip to the close CostCo would be over 500 miles. Now an EV for farm use might work to travel to the barn, move stuff around.
Now if I lived back on my folks old farm, an EV would work, esp if I tossed in a pole garage with Solar Panels on the roof. Why? Because free power.
I would only need to get to town once a week, driving distance round trip would be under 25 miles. Now if I wanted to shop at the super Walmart, then
that round trip would be close to 200 miles.
A guy at work had an EV that worked quite well...travel distance was under 40 miles round trip. For him it was perfect...mostly EVs can be useful if the
round trip distance falls well within 1/2 max travel distance of the EV. His house was wired for 220 in the garage so charging up the car was not an issue.
Now the smallest car that I ever owned was a SMART for 2 car which was about perfect city car that I will ever own. Good mpg, every easy to park and
drive around town. I had the vehicle for over 5 years and it was good for what it could do. However, it was a royal pain to get serviced because the
dealership was in the big city above 75 miles away. That Smart car however, did not like traveling above 65 mph - so long distance travel in it was not
worth the effort. Another major down fall of the Smart car was it required high test fuel. And boy did I hate having to pony up around $1.00 more per
gallon of gas.
When the Smart car was no longer a reliable form of transportation, I replaced it with truck... I still miss not having a small commuter car, but my truck
does not get high centered on 6" of snow.
Smart cars were a novelty for European cities. They were easy to park.
Even in Europe their impracticality was noticed and they are no longer popular.
Smaller cars like a VW Polo are the “small city cars”
And FWIW a Smart fortwo will do about 145kmh (90mph) flat out.
When I was over in Europe (before I bought my Smart Car) - I saw more than a few. They did have one cool version of the smart car that was never imported to the US of A.
At the time it was the best small car I could find...a few years after getting one there were more than a few much better small cars that would have been a better choice.
At high altitude, I don't think I ever got close to 85 mph in my Smart Car...I do remember once during a very high wind day that it was a big effort to maintain speed to about 50 mph.
Now back to the tangent on the subject, once Smart Car indicated that they would stop ICE imports to the US of A, I decided to dump the Smart Car. For me in Colorado Springs area with no local dealership - not worth my effort to upgrade to the current generation.
Now if I wanted a car that would slam my butt into my car seat; a full electric car I would be happy to consider the Lotus Evija.
The cool smart car that never made it to the US of A.
89477
Speaking of Electrical bike, reminds me of this.
One of my coworker E.L. use to work under Lee and he went back to rejoin Lee's new startup.
This was 1997 if I recall my memory.
https://www.electricbike.com/lee-iacocca-and-the-ev-global-electric-bike/
clodhopper
03-16-2022, 08:51
https://irate4x4.com/attachments/lcm5044anqn81-png.511343/
BushMasterBoy
03-16-2022, 13:18
Why can't we just stay home and have everything delivered to us?
kidicarus13
03-16-2022, 13:48
Why can't we just stay home and have everything delivered to us?We can. We do. NOM NOM NOM
89840
Anyone own/test drove a Kia EV6 yet?
Kinda like the look of that one, and the price point is nice...
Anyone own/test drove a Kia EV6 yet?
Kinda like the look of that one, and the price point is nice...
I think MrPrena bought some sort of Kia EV recently. Not sure if its the one you?re asking about.
clodhopper
05-23-2022, 17:04
Cumulative Emissions of CO2 for Electric and Combustion Cars: A Case Study on Specific Models
https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/15/7/2703/pdf#:~:text=For%20a%20combustion%20car%2C%20the,va riants%20W1%20to%20W5%2C%20respectively.
BPTactical
05-24-2022, 07:58
Cumulative Emissions of CO2 for Electric and Combustion Cars: A Case Study on Specific Models
https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/15/7/2703/pdf#:~:text=For%20a%20combustion%20car%2C%20the,va riants%20W1%20to%20W5%2C%20respectively.
Only important part of the above noted document:
In the case of electricity generation ?from coal?, in practice, the replacement of a
combustion car with an electric car will not improve global CO2 emissions in any of the
scenarios.
Even in the case of electricity production from wind and PV, in the case of low annual
mileage (scenario 3000 km), replacing a combustion car with an electric one will result
in greater total CO2 emissions than using the old combustion car throughout the entire
planned period/mileage. In the case of the Polish electricity production mix (case W5),
with higher annual mileage, the replacement of a combustion car with an electric one
(15,000 km/year scenario) will ?pay back? after 9 years from the point of view of CO2
emissions. However, in the remaining scenarios (7500 km and 3000 km/year), it will not be
ecologically beneficial. In the case of the average European mix, replacing a combustion
car with an electric car will pay for itself in the 15,000 km/year scenario after 5.5 years
and in the 7500 km/year scenario after 12 years. In the low-mileage case (up to about
4000 km/year), the total CO2 emissions associated with replacing a combustion car with a
new electric one will be higher over the entire assumed simulation period.
The greenies, are not so green?
DOH!
I found it interesting that at lower yearly mileage electric sucks. This is exactly what I would use one for, grocery shopping in town.
To be fair 15,000km is ~9,000mi, so most Americans will blow past that and so it might be beneficial to be eclectic.
But overall you can?t cheat physics.
BladesNBarrels
06-16-2022, 08:05
Just got my Smart meter installed this week.
Let the fun begin!
https://i.imgur.com/Fl5MGTV.jpg
BladesNBarrels
07-27-2022, 16:29
A bit of a Public Relations Problem??
https://i.imgur.com/p94adiO.jpg
there was a Tesla for sale on Craigslist recently that was a '13 model S with 74,000 miles. In the add the seller stated that the battery had just been changed at a cost of $22,000. Now in my mind, a 9 yr. old vehicle with only 74,000 miles shouldn't be needing a battery already and if that's an indication on how long the batteries last before needing swapped, well, that's not a very good selling point.
there was a Tesla for sale on Craigslist recently that was a '13 model S with 74,000 miles. In the add the seller stated that the battery had just been changed at a cost of $22,000. Now in my mind, a 9 yr. old vehicle with only 74,000 miles shouldn't be needing a battery already and if that's an indication on how long the batteries last before needing swapped, well, that's not a very good selling point.
Could have been from accident damage. I saw a video on one that hit some debris and broke a coolant fitting off the battery. Tesla wouldn't fix it and wanted to replace the whole pack. Another shop tapped the hole and used a brass fitting.
A bit of a Public Relations Problem??
https://i.imgur.com/p94adiO.jpg
well that?s just cartoonish.
For every "smokeless" electricity, there is a Power Plant.
-John
BladesNBarrels
07-29-2022, 11:59
Interesting observation
https://i.imgur.com/9ieNGfk.jpg https://i.imgur.com/5XPX0Xp.jpg
hollohas
08-01-2022, 18:39
The WEF says EVs are the shit, but there isn't enough resources to make EV batteries for everyone so you all need to forget your expectation of personal vehicle ownership.
They'll get their private jets. You'll get to share a car with your neighbor.
asystejs
09-06-2022, 17:32
China’s Coming EV Battery Waste Problem (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-38O6jSyiQ)
How Tesla’s Battery Mastermind Is Tackling EV's Biggest Problem (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLr0GStrnwQ)
The WEF says EVs are the shit, but there isn't enough resources to make EV batteries for everyone so you all need to forget your expectation of personal vehicle ownership.
They'll get their private jets. You'll get to share a car with your neighbor.
And you'll both have to take the bus or ride a bike because the infrastructure can't support charging the EVs.
BushMasterBoy
09-06-2022, 21:48
California rolling blackouts have begun. I predict violence.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/09/06/california-heat-wave-power-outages-possible/7999417001/
California rolling blackouts have begun. I predict violence.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/09/06/california-heat-wave-power-outages-possible/7999417001/
Uhm, rolling blackouts in California have been a thing for quite a while now. Surprised this even made the news.
Long video, but well thought out. Just the basic calculations of how much energy we use and what it will take to provide that in the future.
http://youtu.be/MBVmnKuBocc
BushMasterBoy
09-19-2022, 11:30
Somebody is gonna get rich when they find their "tainted" well water is lithium laced brine. The semiconductor industry destroyed the vacuum tube business.
It's really a pretty simple answer.
The most powerful, least generating, power production, power house is, Nuclear Energy.
When some girl comes up to you in her flower dress, and asks you what you did about Global Warming, tell her you advocated Nuclear Energy.
-John
BushMasterBoy
09-19-2022, 21:32
Fissionable material is OK until you are exposed to it. I keep two high tech geiger counters at the house because I know this is what killed my father. Nuclear weapons accident in the Pacific. DOD eventually abandoned the island. I'd love to say just stuff the waste on a rocket and shoot it into the sun. But we can't even begin to get to the moon reliably. Make a mistake with a big nuclear reactor and you can effectively destroy an area the size of Colorado. Even Pueblo voted no to nuclear power. When you close the nuclear power plant, you can't just bulldoze it down. You have to bury the waste underground in a special way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnston_Atoll
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2mtwvY5Wv0
BladesNBarrels
10-02-2022, 10:59
Long, but interesting review of a 3-month trial of Tesla.
This was from a FB Group I belong to
So the Tesla experiment 🔬 has come to an end.
Heather and I each had one for the past 3 months and here are some things from our experience. When gas prices were $5 per gallon it seemed like a good thing to try.
Here are some Pro?s & Cons?s!
Pro?s:
1. Watching netflix on the huge screen looked and sounded like a movie 🎥 theater!! Amazing actually ! Using the internet to listen to radio stations on line was so cool.
2. These cars are really quick and very fast! Felt almost as fast 💨 as the corvette !
3. high end speed was also fast. Easy to go over 100 mph. I always got to places quickly.
4. All kids were in awe of the Tesla!!!!
5. I had some warranty issues. I scheduled through the app and tesla came to my house. This was cool other then I had to leave it there during that window of time. They fixed my issues at no charge and texted me what they did. Pretty cool!
Con?s
1. My car said it would get 303 miles per charge. It really only get?s 200 miles in my opinion!!! These cars drain so fast! But when it gets to 80 miles left you need to be concerned. So it really only gets 160-170 true miles. This is not good !
2. Range anxiety is a real thing. This past weekend we took the car to new jersey. Made it there with 60 miles left. Plenty to get us to charging station. Went to the charging station I found In my phone and it was a mall!!! No charging station. Put the next one in my phone!!! Go to this station and had 6 miles left. Im glad it was not another mall. So yes this creates unwanted anxiety 😦. So I would not want to go below 100 miles ever again. So really this is a 120-140 mile car when its not winter.
3. I heard when winter comes the anxiety is worse. Imagine running electric heat. I heard the numbers go way down from normal usage from other tesla owners. I cant imagine what this will do?!?!
4. The tires on this car can easily get damaged. My wife had two flat tires In her 3
months. And flat tires are a pain in the ass. She had to schedule through the tesla app. Only tesla could fix the tire. She needed a new one ☝️ the first time $412. The next time it was a hole and it was $150. They will only fix a tire one time so the next time on that tire it needs a new one. Only tesla can fix tires. Not cool 😎 These tires cut like butter. Dont drive off road at all and dont nick a curb at all!! This tire situation was a deal breaker for heather for sure because she hits curbs every day!!!
5. The car is too fast 💨. I was bound to get a speeding ticket or an accident. Heather said I drove way too fast everywhere! Driving a 100 mph in this car is not a
Good thing.
6. I charged this car on sunday and it was $43 to charge it at a tesla super station. This price to drive 170 mph is insane. The charging was free for me because of the rental program I was in. But I would never pay $72k for this car then pay that amount to charge it on trips!
7. My electric has gone so sky high at my house these past two months so its hard to actually know how much it is to charge a tesla at home. My guess is its between $75-$100 for one car for a month. I had thought it would be closer to $50 month. I can only see this cost rising.
8. Running electric to my garage was not cheap. My brother did it for $1,000 in materials but it would have been much more if we hired it out. This prob would have been a $3,500 job.
9. Winter was coming and we show/look at alot of houses. We could not risk driving a tesla based on charge or bad tires in this situation.
10. When going to a tesla super charging station it will charge the tesla to 80% in 25 min. But it takes another 25 min to get to 100%. 50-55 min is too long for a full charge. They also dont like you to fully charge the car all the time. What the heck!
Overall I think 🤔 electric cars are not ready for us. They really lack what you need if you really have to drive somewhere. And its risky getting a flat tire on any road.
So we turned in our leases and bought 2 - 2021 dodge limited trucks with 30k miles on them. They were $54k each and with 100% bonus depreciation still in effect the real cost was $36k each. These trucks now are $78k brand new which is why buying used made sense. These just came off monthly rental programs. These will be safer, more reliable and more durable especially going into winter.
Peace ☮️ out tesla for now!
hollohas
10-07-2022, 08:21
Sounds like EVs in Florida aren't happy.
15ft storm swells + lithium batteries = FIRE
Person with an Electric Car:
Do you accept Batteries?
Landfill:
A perspective from Down Under.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=SiRzpKWshwU
A perspective from Down Under.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=SiRzpKWshwU
"Wealthy, self-righteous, nauseating, green evangelizing, insufferable twat" ...this pretty much covers American politics too.
Just to revive an old thread...
I currently am driving an EV so see if I like them. This is the second on I have had.
My impressions.
1) Damn they are fast. 50mph to 100mph is really fast. The ability to accelerate to pass someone is amazing. 75mph h to 140 is awesome; it doesnt stop pulling (other than the speed limiter for winter tires).
2) Handling is nice. Weight is really low.
3) I was driving hard (every chance i got it was full on) and it STILL got good consumption. I was getting 80mpg equivalent (26kwh/100km). At cruising between 90 and 140mph, that is pretty damm low.
4) They work better in slower speeds and city. I was getting 20.X kwh/100km (104mpge). On highways, I only have about 220miles of battery. But recharge time was 15 minutes (so long enough for a coffee)
Something I didnt expect on a 5 hour drive through the Black Forest. I charged twice, (never was below 1/3 charge) but just topped off because. What was enjoyable was just stopping in small village, plugging into a 150kW charger, having a cappuccino in the cafe and continuing on. I could drive really fast, but also could relax. I just had a nice day out.
What WOULD suck is if you were in a hurry to get someplace far away. 220 miles.. then needing 45 minutes to charge for another 200 miles would not be fun.
Right now I have it plugged into a slow charger overnight. I want to experience just letting it charge while I sleep.
I think if someone is using the vehicle and can basically use no more than a nightly charge "every day" (and keep the vehicle between 20 and 80%) they are really convenient and fast. Quiet too.
That has been my experience so far.
clodhopper
11-19-2024, 14:28
What was wrong with the first one you had?
Scanker19
11-19-2024, 14:30
What was wrong with the first one you had?
It was an EV.
BushMasterBoy
11-19-2024, 14:41
Just curious, what brand and model? I love the idea of a big solar panel in my back yard and no fuel costs. An armored CYBERTRUCK would be great for Pueblo.
What was wrong with the first one you had?
Was a base mustang mach e.
It was acceptable. But not that powerful.
Just curious, what brand and model? I love the idea of a big solar panel in my back yard and no fuel costs. An armored CYBERTRUCK would be great for Pueblo.
Taycan 4S. Rented it for two weeks to see if I could live with EV.
It has a speed limiter (due to winter tires) set at 149mph. It does get to that speed quickly.
It was an EV.
I like cars, jeeps, motorcycle. I used to say the same thing.
A well sorted, fast EV would change your mind in all aspects of driving except duration of “fill up time”
Aloha_Shooter
11-20-2024, 19:49
Taycan 4S. Rented it for two weeks to see if I could live with EV.
It has a speed limiter (due to winter tires) set at 149mph. It does get to that speed quickly.
I liked driving the Taycan when I had one as a loaner. I didn't like having to figure out recharging when I didn't have a household charger. Range anxiety was very real for my driving that weekend but I took it on a side trip to Canon City. Range anxiety would probably be a non-issue for daily driving, especially if I had a high wattage charger at home.
I might get an EV when I move back to Hawaii since long range road trips aren't a thing there but I think Plug-In Hybrids are more practical for most people, especially on the mainland.
BushMasterBoy
11-20-2024, 20:23
Saw this today at wally world. It made me do a double take. Very intimidating look. I want one.97731
Wolfshoon
11-21-2024, 00:48
Just don’t take your cybertruck to the carwash. :eek::eek:
I had a 2021 Model 3 Performance for 14 months and put 22k miles on it with a range of 325 miles that had deteriorated to 310 when I sold it. I was never so happy to get rid of a vehicle and barely got rid of it just in time, the used market on them was at the beginning of the value collapse. I sold it for $700 more than I owed on the loan, so basically “take over payment plus a little cash”.
Between depreciation, the spare set of snow tires with aftermarket wheels, window tint and accessories, insurance, the extra set of tires because I popped two on our wonderful potholed roads, and payments on a $60k car wound up costing me 21k for 14 months of ownership.
For a 60k car I expected luxury performance along the lines of bmw or mercedes. The performance was definitely there, it was the fastest car I have owned for acceleration. that car just flat out got on it. Build quality was very lacking and disappointing. Materials felt cheap and the floor carpets were wearing out at 14 months. Lots of plastic and pleather that just did not live up to hype. Body gaps no where even close to being uniform anywhere on the exterior. Tesla customer service was absolute rubbish the one time I had to use them.
Software gremlins and mandatory “updates” were a constant headache. Stupid things like layout and menu changes I didn’t want or need were done during updates and I had no choice about it. But the absolute killer for me about that car were the PHANTOM BRAKING events where the car would apply maximum braking for no reason. This is really exciting at highway speeds and I was almost rear ended three times. People probably thought I was brake checking them. When I first got the car it would do the phantom braking about one out of four trips. This was so bad the wife refused to ride in it after six months. Software updates finally got the phantom braking events down to about one in ten trips but did not eliminate them completely.
These issues really made me appehensive about driving the tesla. That’s probably the best word I would describe the car with, apprehension. I have been very happy getting back to a gas engine AWD SUV for an everyday driver. I step on the gas and it goes forward. Step on the brake, it stops. Using the cruise control it has not once done a phantom brake event in two years of ownership. I put the tesla ownership down as a very expensive learning lesson. That was a lot of ammo I could have got instead by staying in a gas car.
I have a couple of Jeeps and a couple of diesel dually trucks that I'll never get rid of or replaced, but I thought it would be pretty cool to have an EV that I lease as my daily driver when I get my next off grid house with my own power generation. Just watching what comes out and what develops a good reputation; the Rivians seem pretty cool. I'll probably get one when I grow tired of driving my manual Jeep JL
Today I had the ?bad experience? with not enough battery power and being on a time line.
I had a flight to make and the full charge would have gotten me to the airport with 5% battery. But that would have required driving slow.
So I had the choice? drive faster to make distance and recharge along the way or drive slower and make it with just a little juice.
I chose recharging and driving faster. I drove a lot of the way at around 125mph (no traffic, good roads).
With charging it was 3 hours 20 minutes.
With a decent gasoline (or diesel) car and that level of traffic, making the airport on a tank of fuel is no worry. And driving fast is normally just under 3 hours.
So learned that anything more than one battery full, it starts taking much longer with an EV.
Also where at slow speeds the car was getting 88 to 99 mpge going fast I was down to 64mpge. It seems like still very good efficiency, but 50more energy use really depletes a battery.
So much lesson was? if you need to cover longer distances quickly.. an EV is not the way to go.
The car would go fast (I wasn?t passed), but consumption suffers.
Physics of 125mph is quite bad on wind drag and everything else, efficiency on an ICE vehicle would also be horrendous.
Not to be a debby downer, but please slow down a bit, if nothing else for your own sake. That risks revocation, and even if roads are clear, human reaction times @ 125mph presents an increase risk if something does happen (You're moving 183FPS), and the physics involved make the accident much more of a risk, both in kinetics and the stronger potential of a lithium fire, etc, even from something relatively dumb like road debris or an animal impact.
We want to continue to see you happy, driving, and safe.
BushMasterBoy
11-24-2024, 14:42
Marketwise the EV is not going to be acceptable until batteries are standardized and you can swap them like a propane tank. I envision a pallet jack type swap, trade in a battery for a fresh charged one at a EV station.
Physics of 125mph is quite bad on wind drag and everything else, efficiency on an ICE vehicle would also be horrendous.
Not to be a debby downer, but please slow down a bit, if nothing else for your own sake. That risks revocation, and even if roads are clear, human reaction times @ 125mph presents an increase risk if something does happen (You're moving 183FPS), and the physics involved make the accident much more of a risk, both in kinetics and the stronger potential of a lithium fire, etc, even from something relatively dumb like road debris or an animal impact.
We want to continue to see you happy, driving, and safe.
It was safe where I was driving that fast.
97758
News flash the environmental crisis does not exist. But, these guys are closer to the truth than many.
Our next car will be a rechargeable hybrid. Our daughter purchased a 2009 Honda hybrid (low miles and garage kept) and it gets 30 mpg on the original battery, could get 50 if we replaced the battery. I always want the ICE option but being able to commute to work or short errands on battery power sounds like a win.
At the same time we have no plans to give up the manual VW or the Ford Expy. :)
Trying out a different EV.
Have a Macan 4 at the moment. It is rated at 402hp.
What this has taught me: the weight of an EV, and only making 400hp = not too fast. (they are rated 0-60 in 4.9 seconds).
I am not sure I could live long term with a car like this. It is too slow to make up for not having distance. With the Taycan 4S I had to stop and charge one time from FRA to BSL, with the Macan i had to stop once to charge. The difference is the Taycan lit up the dashboard at 152mph like a christmas tree warning me I was exceeding tire speed rating, the Macan 4 is pretty much done at 130mph.
The Macan is a nice car dont get me wrong, just not fast enough that I would trade gas for electric.
All of this is a little ironic.
DOes anyone remember cars from the 80s? A 200hp car was blazing fast and some italian **tard would be out cruising in a 200hp car looking for a foxy body to get embarrassed by...
Trying out a different EV.
Have a Macan 4 at the moment. It is rated at 402hp.
What this has taught me: the weight of an EV, and only making 400hp = not too fast. (they are rated 0-60 in 4.9 seconds).
I am not sure I could live long term with a car like this. It is too slow to make up for not having distance. With the Taycan 4S I had to stop and charge one time from FRA to BSL, with the Macan i had to stop once to charge. The difference is the Taycan lit up the dashboard at 152mph like a christmas tree warning me I was exceeding tire speed rating, the Macan 4 is pretty much done at 130mph.
The Macan is a nice car dont get me wrong, just not fast enough that I would trade gas for electric.
It seems to me that you just drive like a bat out of hell everywhere/far too frequently so if you're concerned with performance above 130mph+, your opinion is truly an "edge case" and not what a usual driver will be hung up on... Care to explain why you're such a big speeder?
All of this is a little ironic.
DOes anyone remember cars from the 80s? A 200hp car was blazing fast and some italian **tard would be out cruising in a 200hp car looking for a foxy body to get embarrassed by...
Mine and my brother's first trucks were like 100hp... Remember the old S10 or Gen1 nissan pickups? I'm pretty sure my Nissan was 134hp and his S10 was 94hp... but they were anything but fast.
Linkless
12-09-2024, 17:03
Marketwise the EV is not going to be acceptable until batteries are standardized and you can swap them like a propane tank. I envision a pallet jack type swap, trade in a battery for a fresh charged one at a EV station.
I agree with you, but then you go from a known mileage/age/condition battery to an unknown. If my opinion, for this to work cars would need a primary fixed battery that you own and a location to put a rental pack that is used on long trips and turned in completely when done.
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