View Full Version : BOHICA... Oil and Gas Ban, despite the voters saying no in Nov...
Grant H.
03-03-2019, 23:29
https://kdvr.com/2019/03/01/colorado-democrats-unveil-plan-for-big-change-in-oil-and-gas-drilling/
Even though it won't do any good, CO is a blue state and that won't be changing, make sure to write your reps/senators about this...
They tried to do this last year on the ballot with 112, the voters said NO.
But as has been expected in the O/G circles, they are going to cram it down our throats via legislation since they have the majorities and the governor...
DavieD55
03-04-2019, 04:51
Sure is going to be interesting someday when most manufacturing, farm equipment, and the food delivery trucks are halted. [cigar]
GeorgeandSugar
03-04-2019, 05:54
Blue today. But holding out.[emoji51] Cutting their nose off, despite their face. Stupid! Good jobs and tax revenue will dry-up.
I just shake my head why in the world anyone would vote for these people. Look around and you can see the stupidity and the irrational thought process and eventually the unintended consequences.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
DavieD55
03-04-2019, 06:27
http://i68.tinypic.com/24wvw40.jpg
GeorgeandSugar
03-04-2019, 06:49
http://i68.tinypic.com/24wvw40.jpg
No kidding![emoji3525]
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avandelay
03-04-2019, 09:21
If, and that is a big IF, the conservatives/republicans ever take control back I certainly hope they take the same scorched earth policy. I'm tired of the 'keep voting until we get our way and then it is settled law' bull flop.
"Industry and environmental groups were reviewing the 27-page bill and had no immediate comment."
Could that be because it's so well written like most of the other "virtue signalling" legislation coming out lately?
I'm no fan of either side but the owners of the mineral rights usurp the top side owners. There are state agencies in place to regulate the extraction.
Another way the urban mecca projects it's power against the "dirt people." Democracy doesn't matter, so they're going to increase the cost of living in this state no matter what.
I think the O&G industry should cut anyone off who uses government to stomp on our throats. Like CA suing companies... Gov has been the biggest user and will continue to use.
avandelay
03-04-2019, 11:43
The will of the people be damned. If they can't do it with a ballot initiative then they'll do it via party line vote. Just keep narrowing the voting pool until you get the result you want and scream 'THE LAW IS SETTLED'. I hope that if the conservatives ever regain power that we take the same scorched earth policy towards negotiation we see with UBC, mag bans, O&G, ERPO, etc.
Grant H.
03-04-2019, 12:18
I'm no fan of either side but the owners of the mineral rights usurp the top side owners. There are state agencies in place to regulate the extraction.
I have to ask...
Can you explain your comment about mineral rights owners usurping surface owners? The connotation of what you wrote is extremely misleading, and I figure I better ask what you mean before I ramble on about how that whole relationship actually works.
I have to ask...
Can you explain your comment about mineral rights owners usurping surface owners? The connotation of what you wrote is extremely misleading, and I figure I better ask what you mean before I ramble on about how that whole relationship actually works.
Mineral owners can come onto a property and exercise their rights to extract minerals. I am no expert on this and do not know the details or procedures. Look at the oil/gas exploration in Weld and Larimer counties. It is common for land to be sold without the mineral rights intact.
Grant H.
03-04-2019, 13:24
Mineral owners can come onto a property and exercise their rights to extract minerals. I am no expert on this and do not know the details or procedures. Look at the oil/gas exploration in Weld and Larimer counties. It is common for land to be sold without the mineral rights intact.
Okay, so you don't understand what is happening, and by assumption used the word "usurp" which puts an incorrect connotation of "illegal" or "by force" on the concept.
That was what I figured...
Surface owners are made ABUNDANTLY clear what rights they are buying before purchase. Those rights may be limited to surface only, surface and water, or surface/water/mineral. If someone buys a parcel of land without mineral rights, they have to understand that someone else owns the mineral rights. If they don't, that's just a "head in the sand" attitude that will only harm them.
Once the owner of the mineral rights decides to pursue producing them, they must work with the surface owner to come to a mutually acceptable agreement concerning the use of the surface for well heads, production assets, etc... Most often, this is handled in the form of a land lease for enough space to create an access road and a production pad. This will be a fairly small amount of space, but they are paid (monthly/annually/lump sum) for the use of that land. These agreements include details of all sorts, to include how the land will be returned to existing condition when the wells are P&A'd and the pad is removed (future).
The surface owners have the right to refuse leasing their land to the production group, which often results in the production company making a deal with their neighbors to place the pad there, and then use directional drilling to develop their assets... This leads to a LOT of pissed off idiots who scream about how the O/G companies are "cheating them" and "not paying what they should be" etc... I call them idiots because they had their chance, said no, and then get pissed when their neighbor is getting paid for the land use. (I am friends with a family that did exactly this, and they are still bitter against the company despite having been offered the chance to make the money themselves.)
ETA: I will throw this in there...
Property buyers are made abundantly aware of what they are buying, whether they read the details or not. One of the current issues has some dumb broad who claims "she didn't know she owned mineral rights". This means that she didn't pay attention when purchasing her home however many years ago. It was all handled in the contract.
ETA2: Buying and selling of mineral rights has been going on for a LONG time in the US, one of the last places on the earth where private individuals are allowed to own mineral rights. In the case of my friends family, their family bought a large piece of land several generations ago, and the forebear sold off the mineral rights for liquid capital to build a new shop and start a business out of it. There was a lot of anti-O/G whining from them when they found out they weren't going to be getting any royalties from the production, but they have no legal claim to it. Just because whoever sold them off doesn't own the property anymore doesn't negate the deal that was made for the mineral rights.
Mineral owners can come onto a property and exercise their rights to extract minerals. I am no expert on this and do not know the details or procedures. Look at the oil/gas exploration in Weld and Larimer counties. It is common for land to be sold without the mineral rights intact.
True.
My boss was looking at a property that had a rig on it, the owner wanted to sell the house but retain the mineral rights and oil lease royalties.
Okay, so you don't understand what is happening, and by assumption used the word "usurp" which puts an incorrect connotation of "illegal" or "by force" on the concept.
That was what I figured...
Surface owners are made ABUNDANTLY clear what rights they are buying before purchase. Those rights may be limited to surface only, surface and water, or surface/water/mineral. If someone buys a parcel of land without mineral rights, they have to understand that someone else owns the mineral rights. If they don't, that's just a "head in the sand" attitude that will only harm them.
Once the owner of the mineral rights decides to pursue producing them, they must work with the surface owner to come to a mutually acceptable agreement concerning the use of the surface for well heads, production assets, etc... Most often, this is handled in the form of a land lease for enough space to create an access road and a production pad. This will be a fairly small amount of space, but they are paid (monthly/annually/lump sum) for the use of that land. These agreements include details of all sorts, to include how the land will be returned to existing condition when the wells are P&A'd and the pad is removed (future).
The surface owners have the right to refuse leasing their land to the production group, which often results in the production company making a deal with their neighbors to place the pad there, and then use directional drilling to develop their assets... This leads to a LOT of pissed off idiots who scream about how the O/G companies are "cheating them" and "not paying what they should be" etc... I call them idiots because they had their chance, said no, and then get pissed when their neighbor is getting paid for the land use. (I am friends with a family that did exactly this, and they are still bitter against the company despite having been offered the chance to make the money themselves.)
ETA: I will throw this in there...
Property buyers are made abundantly aware of what they are buying, whether they read the details or not. One of the current issues has some dumb broad who claims "she didn't know she owned mineral rights". This means that she didn't pay attention when purchasing her home however many years ago. It was all handled in the contract.
ETA2: Buying and selling of mineral rights has been going on for a LONG time in the US, one of the last places on the earth where private individuals are allowed to own mineral rights. In the case of my friends family, their family bought a large piece of land several generations ago, and the forebear sold off the mineral rights for liquid capital to build a new shop and start a business out of it. There was a lot of anti-O/G whining from them when they found out they weren't going to be getting any royalties from the production, but they have no legal claim to it. Just because whoever sold them off doesn't own the property anymore doesn't negate the deal that was made for the mineral rights.
Thank you Grant H.
Okay, so you don't understand what is happening, and by assumption used the word "usurp" which puts an incorrect connotation of "illegal" or "by force" on the concept.
That was what I figured...
Surface owners are made ABUNDANTLY clear what rights they are buying before purchase. Those rights may be limited to surface only, surface and water, or surface/water/mineral. If someone buys a parcel of land without mineral rights, they have to understand that someone else owns the mineral rights. If they don't, that's just a "head in the sand" attitude that will only harm them.
Once the owner of the mineral rights decides to pursue producing them, they must work with the surface owner to come to a mutually acceptable agreement concerning the use of the surface for well heads, production assets, etc... Most often, this is handled in the form of a land lease for enough space to create an access road and a production pad. This will be a fairly small amount of space, but they are paid (monthly/annually/lump sum) for the use of that land. These agreements include details of all sorts, to include how the land will be returned to existing condition when the wells are P&A'd and the pad is removed (future).
The surface owners have the right to refuse leasing their land to the production group, which often results in the production company making a deal with their neighbors to place the pad there, and then use directional drilling to develop their assets... This leads to a LOT of pissed off idiots who scream about how the O/G companies are "cheating them" and "not paying what they should be" etc... I call them idiots because they had their chance, said no, and then get pissed when their neighbor is getting paid for the land use. (I am friends with a family that did exactly this, and they are still bitter against the company despite having been offered the chance to make the money themselves.)
Slant drilling... Rumaila oil fields... HW stating, "If Iraq invades Kuwait, the US would consider that an Arab issue."... Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait... PR firm lying about Iraqi soldiers bayoneting babies in incubators in Kuwait City (who could it be now?)... The inspiration of UBL's hatred for the KSA and USA solidified... ... 9/11... perfect excuse to go into Iraq... med board... VA mortgage loan... paranoid refusal of oil/gas exploration w/ lease fee... slant drilling... MFW:
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/096/564/2f7.jpg
Grant H.
03-04-2019, 13:34
Thank you Grant H.
Sure.
I am all for property rights, which are rapidly being eroded in this country, but I hate seeing misinformation used to vilify the industry.
Sure.
I am all for property rights, which are rapidly being eroded in this country, but I hate seeing misinformation used to vilify the industry.
Private property rights trump almost all others. I'm trying to think what private property doesn't trump, can you help me?
Consider this board, it is private property, there is freedom of speech here but there is a line too. Just like my home, if someone in my house exercises his first amendment rights in a manner I disagree with I can boot him out of my house.
I can tell people visiting my home they can't their gun inside my doors, I can search anything I want within the confines of my own home. My house, my rules.
If I go into someone else's house they can tell me no guns, I have a choice to make, go into their house w/o my gun or go someplace else.
Grant H.
03-04-2019, 14:05
Private property rights trump almost all others. I'm trying to think what private property doesn't trump, can you help me?
Consider this board, it is private property, there is freedom of speech here but there is a line too. Just like my home, if someone in my house exercises his first amendment rights in a manner I disagree with I can boot him out of my house.
I can tell people visiting my home they can't their gun inside my doors, I can search anything I want within the confines of my own home. My house, my rules.
If I go into someone else's house they can tell me no guns, I have a choice to make, go into their house w/o my gun or go someplace else.
Some levels of property rights are protected, like the ones you are suggesting.
However, eminent domain is becoming widely used to the detriment of property rights, especially by for-profit companies.
Some levels of property rights are protected, like the ones you are suggesting.
However, eminent domain is becoming widely used to the detriment of property rights, especially by for-profit companies.
Eminent domain is theft.
The SC earned my eternal animosity (unless they reverse it) after Kelo v. The thieving fucking assholes of New London.
avandelay
03-04-2019, 16:11
Some developers (builders) are retaining the mineral rights when they develop an area knowing that they can double dip on the property and are not very forthcoming with that information when the homes are sold. Anthem Ranch in Broomfield comes to mind. Huge developments are going up faster than drilling permits can be approved and the wells scheduled for drilling. That said, residents up in the Weld/Broomfield/Boulder county area were up in arms with the number of individual wells. The O&G companies said okay, we'll directional drill more wells from fewer locations which spun the people up even more because of the MEGA PADs. These are the same people that look at a rig and say 'they're fracking'. They refuse to educate themselves beyond reading MotherJones or accept that the developments are encroaching on an actively developing gas field faster than the wells can be finished. Nor do they want to accept the fact that O&G development companies commit a lot of money into the communities. Erie, Lafayette and surrounding areas have some pretty swanky community centers that were greatly helped by O&G.
I was at the capital today.
We were informed it will be pushed through tomorrow or Wednesday.
Grant H.
03-04-2019, 17:28
Unfortunately, not surprised...
As I mentioned, all of the producers that I work with have been expecting something along these lines since the outcome of the election. None of us thought it would take very long, and sure enough... Here we go...
Great-Kazoo
03-04-2019, 17:37
Unfortunately, not surprised...
As I mentioned, all of the producers that I work with have been expecting something along these lines since the outcome of the election. None of us thought it would take very long, and sure enough... Here we go...
Be curious how this plays out against already defined limits by the CO State Supreme Court.
If anyone forgets how some of this got rolling.
Look no further than the .guv him (or)herself . Polis Never had an issue with O&G, till..................they erected a rig in view of his home.
THEN...............it was the evil O&G corps who were destroying the environment. Up till then, not an issue with that guy/gal.
Be curious how this plays out against already defined limits by the CO State Supreme Court.
If anyone forgets how some of this got rolling.
Look no further than the .guv him (or)herself . Polis Never had an issue with O&G, till..................they erected a rig in view of his home.
THEN...............it was the evil O&G corps who were destroying the environment. Up till then, not an issue with that guy/gal.
Part of the issue why this (and gun control) are now a winning argument for DEMs is that the parties right now are more split on Urban / Rural lines than anything else. The DEMs have become an urban party.
They have the votes Denver/Boulder/Burbs to get this done. Basically, the burbs don't want drilling in near them. Having drilling near the burbs is not a winning position for oil and gas. NIMBY is at play.
I give a lot of credit to Oil and Gas for their current predicament. When the burbs didnt want them there, o&G fought to be near the burbs. And when O&G forcibly brings a rural industry to the door steps of the burbs, it is clear O&G wont have the votes to stop new laws.
NIMBY is a strong motivator. Right or wrong NIMBY is how many people react.
If liberals don't like oil & gas, then stop using it.
Stop using it in any shape form or fashion. Don't use it to charge your electric car. Don't use it to power or heat your home. Don't use any of the plastics or synthetic fibers. Don't live in a home that uses any of it for materials. Don't use any agricultural products where O&G had any part in making it available for consumption. Don't use any of its products or byproducts used in your healthcare. Don't buy anything where O&G had any part of the process for obtaining materials, fabrication, or delivery to you.
After all, if there was no demand or viable alternatives, there would be no need for it.
In the meantime, let's see if you die first from exposure or starvation.
ChickNorris
03-04-2019, 18:24
If liberals don't like oil & gas, then stop using it.
Stop using it in any shape form or fashion. Don't use it to charge your electric car. Don't use it to power or heat your home. Don't use any of the plastics or synthetic fibers. Don't live in a home that uses any of it for materials. Don't use any agricultural products where O&G had any part in making it available for consumption. Don't use any of its products or byproducts used in your healthcare. Don't buy anything where O&G had any part of the process for obtaining materials, fabrication, or delivery to you.
After all, if there was no demand or viable alternatives, there would be no need for it.
In the meantime, let's see if you die first from exposure or starvation.
...or boredom?
Hard to be bored when you're foraging for food.
ChickNorris
03-04-2019, 18:33
Um, throwing a temper tantrum isnt 'foraging'
& I digress.
If liberals don't like oil & gas, then stop using it.
Stop using it in any shape form or fashion. Don't use it to charge your electric car. Don't use it to power or heat your home. Don't use any of the plastics or synthetic fibers. Don't live in a home that uses any of it for materials. Don't use any agricultural products where O&G had any part in making it available for consumption. Don't use any of its products or byproducts used in your healthcare. Don't buy anything where O&G had any part of the process for obtaining materials, fabrication, or delivery to you.
After all, if there was no demand or viable alternatives, there would be no need for it.
In the meantime, let's see if you die first from exposure or starvation.
I've made these points before.
We make the HUGE assumption that the typical liberal is even aware that everything they use is related in some way to fossil fuels. They aren't aware, they have no concept of the future, all they know is how they feel at this point in time.
Great-Kazoo
03-05-2019, 07:50
If liberals don't like oil & gas, then stop using it.
Stop using it in any shape form or fashion. Don't use it to charge your electric car. Don't use it to power or heat your home. Don't use any of the plastics or synthetic fibers. Don't live in a home that uses any of it for materials. Don't use any agricultural products where O&G had any part in making it available for consumption. Don't use any of its products or byproducts used in your healthcare. Don't buy anything where O&G had any part of the process for obtaining materials, fabrication, or delivery to you.
After all, if there was no demand or viable alternatives, there would be no need for it.
In the meantime, let's see if you die first from exposure or starvation.
I've made these points before.
We make the HUGE assumption that the typical liberal is even aware that everything they use is related in some way to fossil fuels. They aren't aware, they have no concept of the future, all they know is how they feel at this point in time.
Likewise. When you point this out, the playbook response is. You're a denier and ignorant of the facts.
The vegans are as bad. Umm you do realize those sandals (leather) are made from an animals hide? [panic]
But they're cruelty free. Really? lets kill your friend and skin them. Tell me how cruelty free that is. .................... crickets
whitewalrus
03-05-2019, 11:16
Polis mentioned this during his speech after the election. It?s the typical the voters are too stupid for their own good, so we are going to put it in place anyway.
Okay, so you don't understand what is happening, and by assumption used the word "usurp" which puts an incorrect connotation of "illegal" or "by force" on the concept.
That was what I figured...
Surface owners are made ABUNDANTLY clear what rights they are buying before purchase. Those rights may be limited to surface only, surface and water, or surface/water/mineral. If someone buys a parcel of land without mineral rights, they have to understand that someone else owns the mineral rights. If they don't, that's just a "head in the sand" attitude that will only harm them.
Once the owner of the mineral rights decides to pursue producing them, they must work with the surface owner to come to a mutually acceptable agreement concerning the use of the surface for well heads, production assets, etc... Most often, this is handled in the form of a land lease for enough space to create an access road and a production pad. This will be a fairly small amount of space, but they are paid (monthly/annually/lump sum) for the use of that land. These agreements include details of all sorts, to include how the land will be returned to existing condition when the wells are P&A'd and the pad is removed (future).
The surface owners have the right to refuse leasing their land to the production group, which often results in the production company making a deal with their neighbors to place the pad there, and then use directional drilling to develop their assets... This leads to a LOT of pissed off idiots who scream about how the O/G companies are "cheating them" and "not paying what they should be" etc... I call them idiots because they had their chance, said no, and then get pissed when their neighbor is getting paid for the land use. (I am friends with a family that did exactly this, and they are still bitter against the company despite having been offered the chance to make the money themselves.)
ETA: I will throw this in there...
Property buyers are made abundantly aware of what they are buying, whether they read the details or not. One of the current issues has some dumb broad who claims "she didn't know she owned mineral rights". This means that she didn't pay attention when purchasing her home however many years ago. It was all handled in the contract.
ETA2: Buying and selling of mineral rights has been going on for a LONG time in the US, one of the last places on the earth where private individuals are allowed to own mineral rights. In the case of my friends family, their family bought a large piece of land several generations ago, and the forebear sold off the mineral rights for liquid capital to build a new shop and start a business out of it. There was a lot of anti-O/G whining from them when they found out they weren't going to be getting any royalties from the production, but they have no legal claim to it. Just because whoever sold them off doesn't own the property anymore doesn't negate the deal that was made for the mineral rights.
Thank you for the clarification.
Did this bill just get canned? I am sitting at the bar at the Rio in Boulder enjoying a margarita and the lady next to me is looking at her phone and gets all huffy and is gesturing and saying things out loud about a bill being shut down in committee and how horrible it is as if she wants me to respond, I don't.
She eventually calls someone and leaves a voicemail asking what's going on.. she then gets on the phone with someone and she starts talking to the person on the other end saying that she thought the idea was to get the bill out there fast and get it passed before oil and gas could get enough people rallied to make a difference.. the conversation trails off as she gets up to leave while still gabbing on the phone
Fucking bitch
It appeared before Senate Transportation and Energy committee today:
https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/sb19-181
No updated status officially that I could find.
Did this bill just get canned? I am sitting at the bar at the Rio in Boulder enjoying a margarita and the lady next to me is looking at her phone and gets all huffy and is gesturing and saying things out loud about a bill being shut down in committee and how horrible it is as if she wants me to respond, I don't.
She eventually calls someone and leaves a voicemail asking what's going on.. she then gets on the phone with someone and she starts talking to the person on the other end saying that she thought the idea was to get the bill out there fast and get it passed before oil and gas could get enough people rallied to make a difference.. the conversation trails off as she gets up to leave while still gabbing on the phone
Fucking bitch
It will go through. It was introduced Friday at 4:30pm. The hearing was today. That doesnt happen in a normal time. See my my comments above what we were told at the capital yesterday. It will be pushed through.
Right now the only question is how much damage can the minority party mitigate.
Gotta love the people that represent us.
It will go through. It was introduced Friday at 4:30pm. The hearing was today. That doesnt happen in a normal time. See my my comments above what we were told at the capital yesterday. It will be pushed through.
Right now the only question is how much damage can the minority party mitigate.
Grant H.
03-06-2019, 15:12
It passed it's first committee vote... On precisely party lines.
On to it's next vote, which I believe is one more committee.
It's sad to see CO get fawked over like this.
Great-Kazoo
03-06-2019, 16:12
Did this bill just get canned? I am sitting at the bar at the Rio in Boulder enjoying a margarita and the lady next to me is looking at her phone and gets all huffy and is gesturing and saying things out loud about a bill being shut down in committee and how horrible it is as if she wants me to respond, I don't.
She eventually calls someone and leaves a voicemail asking what's going on.. she then gets on the phone with someone and she starts talking to the person on the other end saying that she thought the idea was to get the bill out there fast and get it passed before oil and gas could get enough people rallied to make a difference.. the conversation trails off as she gets up to leave while still gabbing on the phone
Fucking bitch
So you lost the opportunity for a quickie barroom rub n tug.
I think this will accelerate the housing market crash in Colorado.
Great-Kazoo
03-06-2019, 16:39
I think this will accelerate the housing market crash in Colorado.
Not really. It will lure "green" minded people here, even more. However this will have to be settled in court.
I don't think it will. People mostly move for jobs. Less oil jobs, less demand for housing in rural areas to keep metro area pricing high.
Also, this is not likely to make national news or anything so it's unlikely to catch the attention of any greenies.
There are other factors that will determine the housing market as it's already leveling off, but this won't help.
theGinsue
03-06-2019, 21:28
It passed it's first committee vote... On precisely party lines.
On to it's next vote, which I believe is one more committee.
It's sad to see CO get fawked over like this.
There are a lot of people either directly or indirectly employed in CO due to the presence of the Oil & Gas Industry. One possible upshot is that we may see a population decrease in CO. Of course, I suspect many in the O/G industry are likely not "progressives" so we'd probably be losing more conservatives than libs which isn't good for our future.
Grant H.
03-07-2019, 00:00
There are a lot of people either directly or indirectly employed in CO due to the presence of the Oil & Gas Industry. One possible upshot is that we may see a population decrease in CO. Of course, I suspect many in the O/G industry are likely not "progressives" so we'd probably be losing more conservatives than libs which isn't good for our future.
Correct. They are mostly conservative, and them leaving for other fields will be bad politically.
A friend of mine is a real estate investor and he was telling me that we have seen a consistent 50k/yr moving into CO for the last 5 years (since the collosally stupid MJ law passing) and yet we have only built 30k homes in the past 5 years. Lots of rentable apartments and town homes, but limited single family homes.
The front range has a very strong job market with tech, .mil contractors, etc (basically even if O/G slows way down, ie this bill passing) and that coupled with the influx of people tells me the RE market might cool marginally, but only a little.
In all honesty, most of the O/G folks I know are buying more NE or E than the front range anyway. So, them moving/slowing will be less detrimental to the front range than other areas.
Additionally, it's not like O/G is going to fold up shop and just wholesale move if this passes. All the existing production will still exist, and where the Granola People don't control will still allow production, albeit at much higher costs...
It will be interesting to see where this goes...
Bailey Guns
03-07-2019, 08:13
A friend of mine is a real estate investor and he was telling me that we have seen a consistent 50k/yr moving into CO for the last 5 years...
Not sure about how many moved there but the average population increase since 2013 was about 85,000 per year. The population is 5.8 million now!
When I got out of the AF and moved back to CO in 1989 the population was about 3.2 million. It almost doubled in 25 years.
Correct. They are mostly conservative, and them leaving for other fields will be bad politically.
[snip]
Which is why the industry is fair game.
The power Dems use against us isn't just to advance a nonsense agenda but to attack/destroy their political opponents. Anyone else find it funny they hate US production of fossil fuels done under full state/EPA regulation and want to promote foreign production with no regulation and benefitting questionable countries/regimes?
Think about the insanity of this... Colorado O&G creates jobs, pays taxes, and obeys the laws = BAD! Buying barrels from Saudi = GOOD!
Dems would be plenty happy shutting down all industry outside the urban corridor and consolidating economic power in Denver/Boulder.
Hey, Polis was in the Rio tonight.. must be turning in to the local lefty hangout.
Hey, Polis was in the Rio tonight.. must be turning in to the local lefty hangout.
Perfect place for a statist with their three marg limit! [LOL]
avandelay
03-11-2019, 22:30
For those of you who have facebook accounts, here is a live stream from Owen Hill showing how they're 'reading' the 2000 page O&G bill. While it is questionable whether they're even following the letter of the rule, they are so far off on the intent of the rule that it is almost laughable.
Laughable reading of the bill from Owen Hill (https://www.facebook.com/owenjhill/videos/10155841630295458/UzpfSTU3MTEyNjY3MToxMDE1NzIxNTI5NTk5MTY3Mg/)
DavieD55
03-12-2019, 03:05
There is no way anyone could understand a bill being read that fast. That is not legitimate.
There is no way anyone could understand a bill being read that fast. That is not legitimate.
I suspect that O&G companies will immediately file a lawsuit to try and hold this up saying that unintelligible high speed computer reading was not legal and the law was not legally implemented.
Or they will give a big "screw you" to the state and walk away from doing business in the state.
Now what would be interesting is if the O&G just didnt send the tax money and made the state take them to court to get it. The State has it spent before they have it. Delays in getting the money would hurt.
avandelay
03-12-2019, 09:30
There is no way anyone could understand a bill being read that fast. That is not legitimate.
Multiple computers speed reading separate parts of the bill simultaneously? No. The intent is not to understand. The intent is to meet the letter of the rule. This is how our government is governing us. By cutting corners. And the Dems are tweeting about how this is such a waste of money wanting to hear a 2000 page bill read at length on the floor. The whole process is disgusting. This isn't how the sausage is made, this is a bunch of children making laws that impact everyone whether they like it or not.
[snip]
Or they will give a big "screw you" to the state and walk away from doing business in the state.
[snip]
Doing to CO what AOC did to NYC (Amazon).
Here's the other twist... There are operators and non-ops who are HQ'd in Denver. Like I keep saying; in a service economy the Lib shitties is where the revenue is booked, not created.
I happen to know a small private equity outfit (op) that runs some wells in another state and has leased office space for their folks in Denver. Everyone was WFH prior. Why would they/should they stay?
ETA: And the trickle down....
Energy legislation threatens jobs, economy in Pueblo region
https://www.chieftain.com/opinion/20190311/energy-legislation-threatens-jobs-economy-in-pueblo-region
Great-Kazoo
03-12-2019, 12:44
Energy legislation threatens jobs, economy in Pueblo region[/B][/SIZE]
https://www.chieftain.com/opinion/20190311/energy-legislation-threatens-jobs-economy-in-pueblo-region
A democratic stronghold, that (IIRC) went for other than HRC in 16.
avandelay
03-12-2019, 17:46
At least the Ds got called out in court for their simultaneous computer speed reading stunt. - A Denver judge gave Republicans in the Colorado legislature a victory Tuesday, ordering that Democrats in the state Senate and the chamber’s clerk be barred from reading legislation in an unintelligible way (https://coloradosun.com/2019/03/12/judge-sides-with-republicans-orders-colorado-democrats-clerk-not-to-use-computers-to-read-bills-in-full/)
I happen to know a small private equity outfit (op) that runs some wells in another state and has leased office space for their folks in Denver. Everyone was WFH prior. Why would they/should they stay?
I have the privilege to work for one of those private equity backed operators. We operate in West Texas but are headquartered in Denver. Our CEO was pretty candid about what we as a company would do had 112 passed. He was prepared to move the company out of Colorado even though we don't operate here. If the state doesn't support the industry, then they shouldn't get our taxes. I'd be fine with moving north. A little less fine moving to West Texas....
avandelay
03-12-2019, 19:22
I have the privilege to work for one of those private equity backed operators. We operate in West Texas but are headquartered in Denver. Our CEO was pretty candid about what we as a company would do had 112 passed. He was prepared to move the company out of Colorado even though we don't operate here. If the state doesn't support the industry, then they shouldn't get our taxes. I'd be fine with moving north. A little less fine moving to West Texas....
Ahhh, West Texas. You can see your dog run away for three days there. Did some work in Pampa for a few weeks and man is it flat there.
You can stand on a tuna can in Midland and see Dallas.
You can stand on a tuna can in Midland and see Dallas.
Hahahahahhaaaaaa... I lived in Lubbock for an eternity (2 years). The above statement absolutely represents W.Texas. The only cool thing about W. Texas was watching the dust storms roll in from miles away.
DavieD55
03-13-2019, 22:35
I suspect that O&G companies will immediately file a lawsuit to try and hold this up saying that unintelligible high speed computer reading was not legal and the law was not legally implemented.
Or they will give a big "screw you" to the state and walk away from doing business in the state.
Now what would be interesting is if the O&G just didnt send the tax money and made the state take them to court to get it. The State has it spent before they have it. Delays in getting the money would hurt.
Which is a win win on their road to socialist utopia.
I have the privilege to work for one of those private equity backed operators. We operate in West Texas but are headquartered in Denver. Our CEO was pretty candid about what we as a company would do had 112 passed. He was prepared to move the company out of Colorado even though we don't operate here. If the state doesn't support the industry, then they shouldn't get our taxes. I'd be fine with moving north. A little less fine moving to West Texas....
I hear the same thing!
Any decrease in revenue will justify a tax increase on the rest of the state to cover it. They are virtue signaling at our expense.
Meanwhile...
JARED POLIS HOPED TO STYMIE COLORADO OIL AND GAS WHILE PROFITING OFF OF HIS CANADIAN ENERGY INVESTMENTS
https://www.compasscolorado.org/jared-polis-hoped-to-stymie-colorado-oil-and-gas-while-profiting-off-of-his-canadian-energy-investments/
According to his own financial disclosure statements, Polis is an investor in two Denver-based Bow River Capital funds that invest heavily in the Canadian oil and gas industry – a market with a much looser regulatory framework than that of Colorado or the United States. Polis personally has more than $250,000 invested in these funds. If Polis scuttles oil and natural gas development in Colorado, the value of his personal investment holdings in Canada could increase as domestic supply contracts as a result.
Grant H.
04-04-2019, 09:49
https://www.denverpost.com/2019/04/03/colorado-oil-gas-bill-senate-approves-amendments/
It's passed everything but having PoleSmoker sign it...
Screw the voting people's voice, right?
Silence peasant!
We're further along the path of ruining our great state.
"Polis “is thrilled to see” the bill pass,"
IOW, he's thrilled to send Colorado down the shitter.
DenverGP
04-04-2019, 14:05
The Colorado Secretary of State?s Office has approved a recall petition for Greeley dem state Rep. Rochelle Galindo, allowing her critics to begin collecting signatures as they try to remove her from office.
https://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/elections/recallPetitions.html
Hopefully the first of many.
Grant H.
04-04-2019, 14:37
I sincerely hope they recall her, but I'm worried it won't happen.
During the Weld County "2A Sanctuary" stuff, it came out that Greeley is behaving as a "Illegal Immigration Sanctuary City" but refuses to label themselves as such, since there would be significant negative repercussions....
Great-Kazoo
04-04-2019, 16:50
I sincerely hope they recall her, but I'm worried it won't happen.
During the Weld County "2A Sanctuary" stuff, it came out that Greeley is behaving as a "Illegal Immigration Sanctuary City" but refuses to label themselves as such, since there would be significant negative repercussions....
Greality is a completely different city than all of weld cty. You could tell when they not only elected Dave Young, but decided to keep him in office for a 2nd term.
Grant H.
04-05-2019, 14:27
Greality is a completely different city than all of weld cty. You could tell when they not only elected Dave Young, but decided to keep him in office for a 2nd term.
Oh, I know.
Just saying that that was when it actually came out as public that they are acting as a Sanctuary City, but refuse to label themselves as such in fear of loosing federal money.
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