Post-Ban Lower Receivers

[Rucker61]

Were lower receivers available for sale during the 1994 AWB?

[Zundfolge]

Yes they were, in fact it was during the AWB that people started buying lowers and building ARs en masse.

[beast556]

Almost every shop I went in to had at least a few in the case. Back then Bushmaster was king, if you wanted to go cheap it was Olympic arms.

[Rucker61]

Thanks, all.

[Colorado Osprey]

Almost every shop I went in to had at least a few in the case. Back then Bushmaster was king, if you wanted to go cheap it was Olympic arms.
Bushy retailed for $99, back then I was buying a no name called "Stag" for $49. Now they are worth more than the Bushy.

[KevDen2005]

My dad bough four SKS rifles for $89 each when we lived in southwestern Kansas about six months before the ban, "on a gut feeling" he said. I was a kid and the ban expired when I was in the Army and I was too poor to buy anything cool.

[DenverGP]

Yes they were, in fact it was during the AWB that people started buying lowers and building ARs en masse.

I missed all the fun.... So if lowers were available during the AWB, what wasn't available? Not much of a ban if you can still by the actual firearm part...

[ray1970]

About the only difference between a pre-ban AR and a post-ban was the post ban lacked a bayonet lug and a flash hider.

When I was assembling AR?s during the ban I would usually take a standard barrel and grind off the lug and then permanently attach a muzzle break.

[DenverGP]

so basically an earlier version of california and a couple other states "features" ban?

[Bailey Guns]

It really wasn't a rifle ban. It was a "features" on a rifle ban. And mags were limited to 10 rounds for everything.

All it did was make a "pre-ban" 17 round mag, like a G17 mag, that sold for $20 before the ban, sell for $150 or more during the ban.

[ray1970]

Sort of. The ban pretty much limited you to a certain number of cosmetic features. Technically you could have kept the threaded barrel and bayonet lug if you gave up other features like the pistol grip or whatever.

[ray1970]

It really wasn't a rifle ban. It was a "features" on a rifle ban. And mags were limited to 10 rounds for everything.

All it did was make a "pre-ban" 17 round mag, like a G17 mag, that sold for $20 before the ban, sell for $150 or more during the ban.

Even the ten round magazines really only applied to new production magazines since all of the standard capacity magazines were still perfectly legal to buy, sell, or own. Although at the astronomical prices you mentioned.

[Zundfolge]

Even the ten round magazines really only applied to new production magazines since all of the standard capacity magazines were still perfectly legal to buy, sell, or own. Although at the astronomical prices you mentioned.

Yeah, if the D's are successfull in passing another AWB you can bet there will be two things that won't make it into this one that were part of the 94 ban 1) grandfathering and 2) a sunset provision.

[Gman]

It really wasn't a rifle ban. It was a "features" on a rifle ban. And mags were limited to 10 rounds for everything.

All it did was make a "pre-ban" 17 round mag, like a G17 mag, that sold for $20 before the ban, sell for $150 or more during the ban.

This. The ban was about cosmetics. One of the pain points was collapsible stocks.

The reduction in bayonet crime was amazing during the ban.

[WETWRKS]

The officers made out like thieves buying mags for their guns then reselling their "old mags" to the stores for an astronomical price that was then passed on to the public.

[Rucker61]

Yeah, if the D's are successfull in passing another AWB you can bet there will be two things that won't make it into this one that were part of the 94 ban 1) grandfathering and 2) a sunset provision.

Every AWB bill since 2013 (2013, 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019) has included grandfathering.

[ray1970]

The officers made out like thieves buying mags for their guns then reselling their "old mags" to the stores for an astronomical price that was then passed on to the public.

I purchased some magazines directly from several LEO?s for normal prices. I would offer them cash for their ?old magazines? and they would take the money and buy their new magazines at normal prices. In other words I?d give the guy $40 for a couple of his Glock mags and he would just buy himself two brand new LE-only magazines.

[Great-Kazoo]

Sort of. The ban pretty much limited you to a certain number of cosmetic features. Technically you could have kept the threaded barrel and bayonet lug if you gave up other features like the pistol grip or whatever.

You forgot sec 922r. Requiring foreign guns to have no more than 10 foreign parts. Which is still in effect.. AK's had H/T/S, hand guards, pistol grip, butt stock , gas piston, magazine base plate & follower.

FN's were using charging handles, furniture, gas piston , H/T/S , mag floor plate and follower.


922 parts mfg did very well back then. Of course those were the days of $100 FN - Herstal Belgium parts kits from FAC, Federal Arms Corp Now morphed / absorbed in to Tapco

Damn, the AWB was good for American Ingenuity. Pass a law we'll work around it, legally .

[Great-Kazoo]

Bushy retailed for $99, back then I was buying a no name called "Stag" for $49. Now they are worth more than the Bushy.

Rock River as well.

[Circuits]

Every AWB bill since 2013 (2013, 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019) has included grandfathering.
Depends upon the state, actually.

[Wolfshoon]

Six features of an 1994 "Assault weapon":

Detachable magazine plus two or more of the following features-
pistol grip
bayonet mount
flash hider (but not compensator)
folding or extending butt stock
grenade launcher or barrel shroud (cant remember which at the moment)

Colt was also doing the "big front pin receiver" and filled Rdias area and ar15 vs m16 f/a machined bolt bullshit as they didn't like doing civilian sales at the time either. Other fun crap at the time was a "machine gun in a bag or envelope" where just having a shoe string with a ring for recoil impulse bump fired M1A was a ruled a "go to jail" offense by the courts. Just having some parts of an M16 in an AR was verboten (bolt carrier, various trigger parts regardless of weather or not it was capable of f/a) but you could literally buy just about every component off the shelf except the RDIAS itself, and I saw several of those for sale as well--legality unknown at the time, probably bogus as the MG registry was closed in 1986.

Bushmaster was selling lowers at that time, but several local FFL's didn't want to sell bare lowers because of ubiquitous "legal reasons" that they would never explain. Remember going to Dragon Man's to get a Bushy lower at the low low price of $150 and I thought it was a good deal at the time. Prices were through the roof and magazines started at a dollar per round of capacity and several were double that, even for the crappy clones that didn't work for shit.

[Will1776]

New AWB would ban a lot more than cosmetic features due to the definitions (pistol grip defined as anything that can function as a grip) and a one feature test. Also bans anything that has similar capabilities to "assault rifles" so basically all semi auto rifles unless exempted in the text of the bill like the mini 14.

[Great-Kazoo]

New AWB would ban a lot more than cosmetic features due to the definitions (pistol grip defined as anything that can function as a grip) and a one feature test. Also bans anything that has similar capabilities to "assault rifles" so basically all semi auto rifles unless exempted in the text of the bill like the mini 14.

The next one if and when it happens will IMO ban and semi auto black rifles that holds a detachable magazine. Which will raise the company value of SCR and who knows how many other soon to mfg copies

https://fightlite.com/scr-lwr-mc

[Bailey Guns]

The officers made out like thieves buying mags for their guns then reselling their "old mags" to the stores for an astronomical price that was then passed on to the public.

Huh...I must've missed that part. LEOs couldn't just walk into a gun shop and buy standard mags. You had to have a letter from your department, on dept letterhead, stating exactly what the mags were for and who would use them. It was generally a PITA. The letter was to be filed with the 4473 in cases where a gun (like an AR-15) was purchased or kept on file with the FFL if it was just mags.

[Bailey Guns]

Sort of. The ban pretty much limited you to a certain number of cosmetic features. Technically you could have kept the threaded barrel and bayonet lug if you gave up other features like the pistol grip or whatever.

Technically that's true. But then you would have to give up the ability to accept normal mags.

There were 5 evil features that defined an Assault Weapon:

1) ability to accept "hi-cap" mags
2) pistol grip
3) threaded muzzle
4) bayo lug
5) suppressor

To be legal the gun could have no more than two of those features. The ability to accept standard mags was a given. That left you with one feature...usually the pistol grip. By far the most common configuration was a rifle that would accept standard mags, pistol grip, plain muzzle (later the "muzzle brake" that was permanently pinned or welded came along...that eliminated the threaded barrel feature and still resembled the military style flash suppressor) and fixed or permanently pinned, non-collapsible, collapsible stock (pinned fully open).

It was also illegal to convert a newly made assault rifle (made after the ban) into a "pre-ban" configured rifle.

So the ban did nothing to change, or "ban", the firearm. In reality it banned flash suppressors, bayonet lugs, collapsible stocks and mags over 10 rounds for civilian sales.

DiFi had a litter of kittens when she (and other democrats) figured out nothing really changed for the gun makers. They just adapted to the new rules. Democrats accused the gun industry of finding loopholes and circumventing the law. No, dipshit, they followed the letter of the law just like you wrote it. Wasn't their fault you're an idiot.

ETA: Just noticed the post above by Wolfshoon. Could've saved a lot of time if I'd read that first because he pretty covered everything I just said.

Then 2004 came along and everything magically went back to normal in most places. A few states kept the ban in effect. Then the guns and mags marked "for LE/Mil use only" instantly became "rare" and "collector items". It was just stupidity.

[Justin]

Even the ten round magazines really only applied to new production magazines since all of the standard capacity magazines were still perfectly legal to buy, sell, or own. Although at the astronomical prices you mentioned.

USGI 30 rounders were going for around $25 each at the time, that's the equivalent of about $37.50 today.

I remember a friend buying a beta drum at the time and paying $400 for it.

[Justin]

You forgot sec 922r. Requiring foreign guns to have no more than 10 foreign parts. Which is still in effect.. AK's had H/T/S, hand guards, pistol grip, butt stock , gas piston, magazine base plate & follower.

FN's were using charging handles, furniture, gas piston , H/T/S , mag floor plate and follower.


922 parts mfg did very well back then. Of course those were the days of $100 FN - Herstal Belgium parts kits from FAC, Federal Arms Corp Now morphed / absorbed in to Tapco

Damn, the AWB was good for American Ingenuity. Pass a law we'll work around it, legally .

My understanding was that 922(r) was the result of the import ban that passed under Bush Senior and wasn't part of the 1994 ban on so-called "assault weapons."

[Justin]

DiFi had a litter of kittens when she (and other democrats) figured out nothing really changed for the gun makers. They just adapted to the new rules. Democrats accused the gun industry of finding loopholes and circumventing the law. No, dipshit, they followed the letter of the law just like you wrote it. Wasn't their fault you're an idiot.



Unfortunately, that's not a mistake they're planning to repeat. subsequent proposals from the dems have limited the number of allowable "evil features" to only one, so you'd basically be stuck with either something like a Mini 14 or Fightlight SCR or an AR with a permanently afixed magazine a la the California style ones that use a bullet button.

Also, some of the subsequent proposals have included provisions to require changing the definition of pre-existing rifles to make them NFA devices in an attempt to force everyone who owns them to either file the paperwork to register them (and you think tax stamp wait times suck now), or get rid of them.

[KevDen2005]

Huh...I must've missed that part. LEOs couldn't just walk into a gun shop and buy standard mags. You had to have a letter from your department, on dept letterhead, stating exactly what the mags were for and who would use them. It was generally a PITA. The letter was to be filed with the 4473 in cases where a gun (like an AR-15) was purchased or kept on file with the FFL if it was just mags.

A family friend recently retired as a commander from a metro agency and he was telling me the department wasn't sure how to handle acquiring the magazines from officers who bought them. They were forcing officers to give the PD their purchased magazines when they left the agency and not compensating them, unknown how long, until someone finally made a stink about it and said the agency had to compensate them for the property if they weren't going to let the officers keep the mags.

[colorider]

At the time I was sitting on about 50 of the Eagle branded banana mags for the ruger 10/22. Sold all but 4. Made enough money to buy a Honda Pilot. The mini dune buggy thing, not the car.

[Bailey Guns]

Unfortunately, that's not a mistake they're planning to repeat. subsequent proposals from the dems have limited the number of allowable "evil features" to only one, so you'd basically be stuck with either something like a Mini 14 or Fightlight SCR or an AR with a permanently afixed magazine a la the California style ones that use a bullet button.

Also, some of the subsequent proposals have included provisions to require changing the definition of pre-existing rifles to make them NFA devices in an attempt to force everyone who owns them to either file the paperwork to register them (and you think tax stamp wait times suck now), or get rid of them.

Yep...nothing would surprise me now. The democrats are rapidly losing their fear of talking about things close to DiFi's, "Mr and Mrs America...turn them all in" type of scheme.

[Gman]

Also, some of the subsequent proposals have included provisions to require changing the definition of pre-existing rifles to make them NFA devices in an attempt to force everyone who owns them to either file the paperwork to register them (and you think tax stamp wait times suck now), or get rid of them.

When they can classify a piece of plastic with no magazine, barrel, or fire control group as a "machine gun", all bets are off.

[Eric P]

When they can classify a piece of plastic with no magazine, barrel, or fire control group as a "machine gun", all bets are off.


That was Trump, the great Republican savior, 100% supporter of the 2nd...

[hurley842002]

Somewhat related.

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/09/gun-deals-psa-no-beto-ar15-stripped-lower-receiver-preorder/

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190917/f8b254a765b560ee9762f42bceb1e76d.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Justin]

That was Trump, the great Republican savior, 100% supporter of the 2nd...

It's worth pointing out what the other options were at the time.

If they had forced the legislature's hand, then a bill would have passed that not only would have banned bump stocks but would have explicitly banned "anything capable of increasing the rate of fire of a rifle."

Presumably this would have not only included bump stocks, but also binary triggers, after market target and competition triggers, tuned buffers and buffer springs, and even things like putting oil on the sear.

In the wake of the Vegas shooting, the press crucifying literally anyone who said anything even remotely pro-gun, and a supposed public outcry to "do something" it's a minor miracle that changing the regulations specifically on bump stocks is all that we ended up with. Frankly, given how shoddy the regulatory change was, and what's happening with the lawsuits as a result, there's probably a non-zero chance that the ban will get thrown out by the courts anyway.

[Eric P]

But after the lengthy comment section, ig had died down and the ATF could have quietky not implemented the rule.

[Great-Kazoo]

well if one was to force a fixed mag on AR's i know 50 & 100 round drums would probably start in the $4-500 range.

[FoxtArt]

Somewhat related.

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/09/gun-deals-psa-no-beto-ar15-stripped-lower-receiver-preorder/

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190917/f8b254a765b560ee9762f42bceb1e76d.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Does it really annoy anyone else when they do cutesy bullcrap with the fire and safe? If you hand that off to someone who doesn't have it absolutely memorized, how do they know without pulling the trigger? It's not even clear in the context which would be which. This is one rare category I wish was regulated. (clearly mark safe and fire positions on new mfg)

[whitewalrus]

Does it really annoy anyone else when they do cutesy bullcrap with the fire and safe? If you hand that off to someone who doesn't have it absolutely memorized, how do they know without pulling the trigger? It's not even clear in the context which would be which. This is one rare category I wish was regulated. (clearly mark safe and fire positions on new mfg)

I don?t really care myself, hardly use the safety on my ARs. Does it annoy you when it?s not marked at all like some surplus guns? m1, mosin, etc?

[Sawin]

The words are irrelevant. The selector switch is what makes it in safe or not... so as the owner, you better figure that out when it’s unloaded... Some pistols are safe when a lever is up (1911’s) and others are safe when it’s down (Walthers), and they don’t have words on them at all.

[Will1776]

The next one if and when it happens will IMO ban and semi auto black rifles that holds a detachable magazine. Which will raise the company value of SCR and who knows how many other soon to mfg copies

https://fightlite.com/scr-lwr-mc

SCR would be banned as well

[Eric P]

Does it really annoy anyone else when they do cutesy bullcrap with the fire and safe? If you hand that off to someone who doesn't have it absolutely memorized, how do they know without pulling the trigger? It's not even clear in the context which would be which. This is one rare category I wish was regulated. (clearly mark safe and fire positions on new mfg)
It annoys me more that the 3rd position is not allowed

[Great-Kazoo]

SCR would be banned as well

I doubt it as that lower is CADOJ compliant, even under the current restructuring CA did that went in to effect this year. But that list for a new, permenant ban would again cover every semi-auto they can think of. As well as leave the door open for "adjustments"

[Rucker61]

I doubt it as that lower is CADOJ compliant, even under the current restructuring CA did that went in to effect this year. But that list for a new, permenant ban would again cover every semi-auto they can think of. As well as leave the door open for "adjustments"

An "assault weapon" is anything that's on the bill when it gets signed. So Ohio Democrats submitted a bill that would make any firearm that could accept a "high capacity magazine" into an "assault weapon". Some Oregon Democrats introduced a bill that defined "large capacity magazine" as "greater than five rounds". Combine those two concepts and every single pistol is an "assault weapon".

[Justin]

I think we'd be better off discussing actual federal proposals instead of mixing and matching various state laws in order to create a worst case scenario.

[Rucker61]

I think we'd be better off discussing actual federal proposals instead of mixing and matching various state laws in order to create a worst case scenario.

Since the states seem to be ignoring Chicago v McDonald, and laws seemed to be leveraged across states, it's wise to consider what those worst case scenarios could be.

[Gman]

An "assault weapon" is anything that's on the bill when it gets signed. So Ohio Democrats submitted a bill that would make any firearm that could accept a "high capacity magazine" into an "assault weapon". Some Oregon Democrats introduced a bill that defined "large capacity magazine" as "greater than five rounds". Combine those two concepts and every single pistol is an "assault weapon".
Yeah, my 10-22 would be an "assault weapon". In Oregon is an M1 an "assault weapon" since it has an internal magazine greater than five rounds?

It seems we lost the battle of political language around the nonsensical term. My firearms are "defense weapons". They've never assaulted anyone. I now see further degradation of terminology with the use of "assault weapon" and "assault rifle" interchangeably by the MSM.

[Eric P]

My truck is an assault weapon. I can mow down people faster than my AR can, and I dont have to reload every 15 hits.

[Gman]

They'll eventually go after those too. That's "too much" vehicle and you really don't "need" a truck. You're killing the planet and putting at risk those that are trying to save it in their tiny eco-vehicles.

[Martinjmpr]

I don?t really care myself, hardly use the safety on my ARs.

Let me guess:

78964

I always thought it would be funny to have one where Safe was "Salaam" (Peace), Semi was "Harb" (war) and full auto was "JIHAD!" :D

[BushMasterBoy]

This is the main reason we need our rifles. 3 masked thugs attempt to rob homeowner. They fire the first shots, the victim prevails with his firearm. The comments following this article are precious.

https://news.yahoo.com/georgia-homeowner-uses-semi-automatic-125200862.html

[KevDen2005]

This is the main reason we need our rifles. 3 masked thugs attempt to rob homeowner. They fire the first shots, the victim prevails with his firearm. The comments following this article are precious.

https://news.yahoo.com/georgia-homeowner-uses-semi-automatic-125200862.html

I wonder why it's written as 'Semi-Automatic' Rifle?

[Gman]

Because the author doesn't know shit about firearms? They think it's some new menace, but it's actually 19th century technology.

[ray1970]

Because the author doesn't know shit about firearms?

Not sure why but this reminded me of the article where the guy wrote about shooting an AR for the first time. I?ll see if I can find it. It?s pretty funny.

[ray1970]

Found a link. It?s funny.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/firing-ar-15-horrifying-dangerous-loud-article-1.2673201

I believe there were follow up articles about the PTSD he got from his one range trip.

[Gman]

Yeah, haven't forgotten about that douchebag. He should stay home with his cats.

[ChickNorris]

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/firing-ar-15-horrifying-dangerous-loud-article-1.2673201

I believe there were follow up articles about the PTSD he got from his one range trip.

What a nancy

[Gman]

What a nancy
I think there are some nancys (nancies?) that might be offended by that.

[ChickNorris]

I think there are some nancys (nancies?) that might be offended by that.

Its a family website

[scratchy]

He makes Nancys look masculine

[jreifsch80]

Yeah, haven't forgotten about that douchebag. He should stay home with his cats.

Hey dont bash cats man, I'm a cat guy myself. Cant stand when people bring their non service dogs to stores so im thinking I'll get a cat harness and leash for my big orange cat

[crays]

My Nancy has her own rifle, and she's not afraid to shoulder it.

Depending on her mood, she's either annoyed or amused by the term used above.

On some rare occassions she's indifferent, but not often.

YMMV

Sent from somewhere...

[ChickNorris]

Im not usually a name caller & it was the best I had to keep it pg13.


If I ever get to take the kid gloves off & speak my mind, I'll probably make you all blush.

Giggle.

[Circuits]

I got kicked off a jury once for not agreeing that the report and recoil of a 9mm handgun was harsh, deafening and scary during voir dire. "Excused with thanks," rather.

[FoxtArt]

I got kicked off a jury once for not agreeing that the report and recoil of a 9mm handgun was harsh, deafening and scary during voir dire. "Excused with thanks," rather.

But I thought jurors were free to have opinions that diverged from the Court's official control.... Except in the USA since the 18th century, of course.

[jreifsch80]

By the way why does everyone freak out and get excited about a firearm being "preban" items that existed before the 94-04 awb. Do some people out there think "preban" mags and stuff is worth more that identical "postban" stuff? A fool and his money are soon parted

[Colorado Osprey]

By the way why does everyone freak out and get excited about a firearm being "preban" items that existed before the 94-04 awb. Do some people out there think "preban" mags and stuff is worth more that identical "postban" stuff? A fool and his money are soon parted

Because in some states the '94 ban became permanent. In those states you can only purchase pre ban items if you want one. So to those poor souls in those pre-ban states that stuff is worth more as they cant buy new.

[jreifsch80]

Because in some states the '94 ban became permanent. In those states you can only purchase pre ban items if you want one. So to those poor souls in those pre-ban states that stuff is worth more as they cant buy new.

Ah it all makes sense now thanks

[ChickNorris]

I dislike admitting my ignorance but none of this was really part if my daily until a year & a half ago. Im enjoying the information & context...

[Aloha_Shooter]

Yeah, my 10-22 would be an "assault weapon". In Oregon is an M1 an "assault weapon" since it has an internal magazine greater than five rounds?

It seems we lost the battle of political language around the nonsensical term. My firearms are "defense weapons". They've never assaulted anyone. I now see further degradation of terminology with the use of "assault weapon" and "assault rifle" interchangeably by the MSM.

But an M-1 WAS an assault weapon .... 75-80 years ago. The soldiers assaulting Omaha and Juno Beaches utterly depended on it (well, it and the naval fire from 16-inch guns and aerial bombardments and ...).

[Justin]

Hey dont bash cats man, I'm a cat guy myself. Cant stand when people bring their non service dogs to stores so im thinking I'll get a cat harness and leash for my big orange cat

I love cats!

Want to exchange recipes?

[Gman]

But an M-1 WAS an assault weapon .... 75-80 years ago. The soldiers assaulting Omaha and Juno Beaches utterly depended on it (well, it and the naval fire from 16-inch guns and aerial bombardments and ...).

It was a weapon of war built for the battlefield, but doesn't fit the criteria of either an "assault weapon" or "assault rifle".

...but I think you knew that.

[Will1776]

I doubt it as that lower is CADOJ compliant, even under the current restructuring CA did that went in to effect this year. But that list for a new, permenant ban would again cover every semi-auto they can think of. As well as leave the door open for "adjustments"

The new federal ban bill uses a one feature test and one feature is a pistol grip. They define a pistol grip as anything that can function as a grip. The textured portion of the SCR stock can function as a grip. Basically every semi auto unless specifically exempted like the Mini 14 would be banned due to this definition. Not enough people are talking about that small piece.