Cold weather camping

[Irving]

I'm not the most experienced camper, and would like some knowledge on how to have a more comfortable time camping in cold weather. Last year I tent camped for forth rifle, and after I think 2.5 days, I bailed and went home. When you dread going back to camp, and then dread getting up before the sun is up, it makes for a pretty miserable experience. This year I've got second rifle, so it might be a little warmer, but I'm really not counting on it.

Here is my camp from last winter.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/bnaBYH7dQsZpXzo9Q76vGRu1_J77fPEQOWDxxDcizsGYyJFDCR Yg5bm7n2EzfVo_yCaO15CtSBGYsWt1UgbrcTz3LInnJ3e5wfpn Legh7-CsUAF0VB3-tT8T-VJ39mwJure4i3JCbWv6_9taHTB7IGiI2YtAMmKZ5NHRe0UEKEl rutd7VlPwidpEM2NDxhf77ddQVEC2ZvM5XMP9w3iMNmEcbgcOk LdVm8vN7NWUdw0TVbqgZwgxGWPOq7qFXdRAVRBmzWCUk3k4t8M CIAZWXn7Zk-fJ3s2DIvojSQ7YDtFwG7F4f5le5LI-DY4OMk83elkiEALCcPuYxnTNeSo4pdkb0nQRCtK6h3Wa_mxkyX Hu3bFgi-XEzOGFgbyr3xs1Y4WD_FJ06MMURJfp8EAjUhgrHDJ52qg5bpLh EqCRy-Q1L2tyeDnyPxFx27xsJkvt4JaKiD7YIvuJj7qtPH7ovwOStd4P W7lXrNBvZ6tNTkngQr940cJj99nEXgnbed7bbpTt_WvwPTzzP0 axD0OPIcXAIYFnZbyC7v0i5ghsh6B6d-QQNn5k4sPpmWe6wY6ps7O3AqXa-jQcZBaPOd-9oEi1FRq8-VN5m4WgDsNc0jxYVtWCanL70RHAf0IiMo9d5eDc1Cog2JbzCSb CJt1VFwreYP2ijG-YMGZngHYID4Ne4mokJsh4IYhaOf8qPm0UupF-tZ1nRRKU_kXJbxGa7OLGIcEnQSqMgW51-3fA_zHpRx-l=w889-h500-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UCmaPMNZNnPVj_ar_CzS45ik6OfPLvDbaPcVBj4q4ucLOnyulh 3ytldGfxTn2taEJVgOUE02MICYzQTcJWZEJm9a86TwBzgQuaUj _GJDGJdFo9KzXSoYqvukJljQI-r1qezHmpz-TI_K6c-aLOh9sJzyJubK94k4-jnHMKQaDJ_wv0PkhkUukamBUtChdGuqKWcJ0JOitqWpSHD7I28 vrm0d1qTvCTKIIa3n3Vz8p9z00L_He6C5SwLzmXarklRCjMsTv bc3IO02KEzoOOlub_qFbc3wodUFCBIZSNZSjK1xntqWyV14bx9 RDElTL-fAuYs5h0dSMAufyjGKlTN3bQP5Q4e1lQXXh3wR2FJNPUsqTlcl MSfIyh2egYLPUdarabJ_FFkEq17GDGK5rgV7QaZUFNNXE3qHp_ DwR4oWoAi0CZxEy1OXpnZDRZ-btx9gxvPSKw96Aebz-LzMUgJ8buXF8UDbSgEODexsWf15Ju82qDpeggZ7TxzM3fOScrd Nu8eEzphDnMR-V8vAhW00jAqz_WoKoSilMxZu8SgYLFw6egYvr75H2MxGExuvZG LZ4DxsI-UE9SoYAyFia4VBoyZ6IrGpsX0WDihltNlXsapISttywWnxB8PM ubrSWpVvxiprYlEeMDUF5SKSKaSji1f3qs3zJ4PdPT4mcVEqCH wQtRDGCSUBEpevso5w1UsGDzVitC3yx_5HSm6NlcQydyAGIL-5SjLHxXPRPy1pD9J9u2er=w1112-h625-no

I have just your average 4-person dome tent with a rain fly. I used a cheapy 2-man pup-tent for extra dry storage. I have a GoLite 3 season down bag that has treated me very well in many camps. I brought a Nebo Zero degree bag that is so big it takes up the entire rear seat in my Amigo when rolled up. No joke, this thing is huge. I opened it all the way (only opens down one side, so it's not a full blanket) and laid that over my GoLite, and that kept me warm enough to sleep comfortably (enough). My neighbor let me borrow his Mr.Buddy propane heater and that thing was a life saver. I could turn it on right before bed to get changed, and first thing in the morning to change in a pretty comfortable climate. As anyone who has tent camped knows, you have about 45-60 seconds after that heater turns off before all your heat is gone, and you'd better be in your bag. It was about 20 degrees at night, and after the first day, the tent heater would shut off on me. I thought it had run out of propane, but I think it wasn't getting enough oxygen and auto shut off.

I had a very difficult time keeping a fire lit for some reason, so except for one or two hot meals, I ended up eating sandwiches. On morning two, when the ham in my ham sandwich was frozen, that's when I decided I was going home early.

This year I'm going to try and bring my trailer since my Amigo is so small. If I want to bring a meat cooler, and a food cooler, the trailer is mandatory.

I'm very interested in helping mitigate the cold with lighter, smaller things than that huge zero degree bag (though I'm still bringing it). Wulf202 gave me a lot of tips about what clothes to sleep in and that kind of thing. Now I'm more interested in bag liners and bivy sacks. How helpful are they? I'll take ANY general cold weather tips please.

Go!

[Irving]

As far as sleeping, I've got two Z-lite foam pads with the silver on one side. I have two inflatables as well. I generally roll with both Z-lites and my smaller inflatable, mostly inflated on top. I have an small inflatable pillow and some camp pillows. Those have been comfortable enough. This last camping trip, I slept with my under garments for the next day in the bag with me, and that went a long way in having everything a comfortable temperature the next morning. Kind of takes away from the idea of sleeping in the pajamas to keep your bag clean, but whatever. In the very cold weather with the two bags, I would put my clothes between the two bags, so my sleeping bag was still clean, and the clothes weren't frozen.

I have a 15 gallon barrel that I like to fill with water and take on the trailer. I haven't done that in the cold though, and am not sure how well that will work if everything freezes at night. I have a feeling that since it will likely be well above freezing during the day, that it will mostly stay liquid, but I just don't know.

Last year I just had the fire grate and a bunch of piles of beetle kill pilled up at each camp site. This year I'll bring my little single burner propane stove since it heats water/soup very quickly, so I know I'll at least be able to have hot food, which goes a long way toward mood.

ETA: I'd like to point out, that last year, during the day and out moving around in the sun, everything was fine and comfortable. I actually preferred being out on the mountain to camp. I hunted in my cheap, foam, Wal-mart boots and it was very comfortable, and even warm walking around in the snow with those. I have better boots this year, so hopefully I won't get wet feet at all. I'll bring those Wal-mart boots just in case though.

[ray1970]

You need an upgrade. Last time I was up elk hunting it was in the teens and snowing and I was on top of my sleeping bag in my underwear sweating it was so hot in the tent. The guy in charge of keeping the stove running through the night got an ass chewing from the rest of us.

[JohnnyEgo]

Current production Buddy Heaters state they should not be used over 7500' because of the low O2. My experience has been hit and miss with mine. It runs longer on the small bottle than hooked to my canister, but it's still 10 to 20 minutes tops.

I find my biggest issues relate to radiant heat loss. I have stepped better since sticking a closed cell foam pad under my moderately insulated Big Agnes inflatable. I use a bag liner, and it helps a bit, but it's not magic. I have heard the Thermarest Reactor liner is a good bit warmer. It's also $70. My biggest thing is to make sure I go to bed dry and empty, by which I mean clean thermals I won't sweat through, and an empty bladder. No point in making my body try to keep a bunch of waste liquid warm. I have also started eating a high carb snack about 20 minutes before I go to bed, at the advice of other cold weather campers. Seems to work pretty good in terms of ramping up the body heat before going to bed. Remember that the bag isn't going to generate heat; it can only work with what you bring in to it.

[SouthPaw]

Keeping the sunroofs closed would probably help..

All seriousness, I am barely a nice weather camper. My brother goes quite a bit and swears by his buddy heater.

[Irving]

I considered buying a small pop-up, in-bed camper to put onto my trailer (a friend is trying to sell it to me). I have to imagine that would be way more comfortable, but my 5'x8' trailer just isn't long enough. The part of the camper that would usually go over the cab, would run into the back of my SUV. It'd work with a pick-up though.

[ray1970]

There?s definitely no substitute for having a warm, comfy place to go at the end of the day.

I honestly wouldn?t even consider camping in the winter in anything less than a nice sized outfitters tent with a good wood burning stove.

I?m becoming quite the princess in my old age I guess.

[Irving]

That'd be nice if I had that stuff, but I don't. For the price of a good outfitters tent, I'd be a significant way to a nice, light and small, hard side, tow-behind.

[ray1970]

I hear you. I?ve been fortunate that I always go with other people and they already have the expensive stuff.

My brother in law has some sort of military tent. I think it?s about a 20x20 or maybe even bigger than that. I think it?s a mess hall tent. There?s plenty of room for five cots, all of the gear, the stove, and we even set up a kitchen area in one corner. If it weren?t for the actual hunting and an occasional trip to the latrine I?d never be cold.

[Hummer]

While I grew up camping 12 months a year out of a Boy Scout pup tent, it's a tough way to go for hunting in the cold seasons. To hunt efficiently you want to wake to a warm, comfortable and well organized space so you can go hunt at top performance. And you want to come back to a camp where you can clean up, eat well, recuperate, prepare and re energize for the next days hunt.

Some hunters do that in larger groups with big heated tents. I enjoy the camaraderie in visiting those camps but I prefer to hunt solo and I think I'm more successful because of it. My base camp is a small camper trailer, one that I first used for my 3rd elk hunt in 1968. It has everything I need; a heater, kitchen sink, stove, oven, refrig, dining table, a warm comfy bed, shower stall and plenty of handy storage. I keep a quiet camp with interior lighting from storage batteries that last the season. (I have a gen set but don't take it).

Probably too late for this season, Irving, but I suggest looking for a good used late model camp trailer 15-18 ft., maybe with a reversible (high lift) axle, and prepare it for cold weather use. You might get one for a few $K and make it last a lifetime.


79108

[Irving]

My Amigo isn't real powerful, but I think it ought to be able to tow something up to 2,000lbs okay. It's especially nice with the manual locking front hubs so I can go into 2WD low if I just need the extra power but not need 4WD. If I get desperate and want another huge project, I could probably get a 4'x8' enclosed trailer and turn that into a camper for cold weather. My real issue is that I don't have any space at my tiny house, on my tiny property, to store anything.

Maybe I should finish this project. https://cosprings.craigslist.org/for/d/tear-drop-trailer/6978490714.html

Thanks to henpecked that talked to me on the phone for a good while just now with some cold weather and general hunting info. Good conversation.

[Little Dutch]

My advice is to winter camp when you are in your twenties. I used to winter camp a LOT and had some nice gear for the time. I went out about 5 years ago with the same gear I'd always used and figured it would be my last season roughing it in the winter; My joints actually hurt in the mornings.

Helpful advice time:
A catalytic heater suffers the same low O2 issues as a little buddy, but not to the same extent. I can generally run my little black-cat all night.
A cot with a wool blanket under you is superior to a pad or air mattress. Getting off the ground helps tremendously.
A winter tent is superior to any multi season tent, but they are expensive and you need at least a 3 man to fit both you and a heater and still avoid a conflagration. Based on price, I rank the tent as last priority for me. I didn't replace my nice winter tent when it finally got too ragged.
I often sleep in long johns and my Carhartt's, with wool or smart-wool socks, and sometimes a hoodie for the core.

Keep anything you don't want to freeze inside of your ice chest. It's not foolproof, but it certainly helps. I, too, have eaten frozen deli meat while camping and agree that it's terrible. I take a portable camping stove with me now, and a jet boil for hot coffee or tea in the morning is a must. The Jet Boil will do oatmeal, Ramen, and soup quickly too.

[Hummer]

Well, my guess is that your Amigo and your current home won't saddle you for much longer. You're a go-getter with a lot of life ahead of you.

My advice re converting an enclosed trailer for camping: don't waste your time and money (!). I've seen all kinds of conversions, some impressive, but none were as serviceable, economical, or as saleable as commercial camp trailer built for the purpose. Use your time and money to improve on the design for your cold season requirements.

[henpecked]

Here's a few tips for you guys to make your camping more enjoyable.
1. Most larger towns have rec centers with HOT showers for cheap.
2. Meat lockers want your business. Listen to what they say.
3. Its a vacation take pie and enjoy yourself, If your losing weight your doing it wrong.
4. Its OK to ask for help you might just get invited to tag along and learn.
5. on amazon look up Sink Twice camping shower they run 25.00 They work well for showering and rinsing off dirty meat.
Just put the water into a clean empty 5 gallon bucket. It will get the soap out of your wife's hair and make her camping experience much more enjoyable
6.You can run down a elk if you try.
This is the most important......
If you shoot a elk and its on the ground, if the head is up IT IS GOING TO GET UP. Don't let it

You need to post up lots of pictures for the people who didn't get to go

[Gman]

A former co-worker had an RV that was left to him by his father. He would take it up to their elk camp just prior to the season. Allowed them to stay warm, dry, and be prepared for several days of hunting.

[Grant H.]

My preferred method is wall tent with a wood stove.

A family in my church has the 12x12 alaknak from Cabelas with a stove, and they have been happy with it down to single digits.

[Irving]

tmckay was selling one earlier this year for a good price, but I wasn't in the market then, and don't have the funds now.

[Hummer]

I like all of your points but I end up losing weight on every hunt. Pie is good but candy or other junk food just slows me down. Hearty homemade soups and stews are my fuel of choice, and lots of liquids.



Here's a few tips for you guys to make your camping more enjoyable.
1. Most larger towns have rec centers with HOT showers for cheap.
2. Meat lockers want your business. Listen to what they say.
3. Its a vacation take pie and enjoy yourself, If your losing weight your doing it wrong.
4. Its OK to ask for help you might just get invited to tag along and learn.
5. on amazon look up Sink Twice camping shower they run 25.00 They work well for showering and rinsing off dirty meat.
Just put the water into a clean empty 5 gallon bucket. It will get the soap out of your wife's hair and make her camping experience much more enjoyable
6.You can run down a elk if you try.
This is the most important......
If you shoot a elk and its on the ground, if the head is up IT IS GOING TO GET UP. Don't let it

You need to post up lots of pictures for the people who didn't get to go

[Irving]

I'm at the Army Surplus store now. They have a military bivy for $59, and it's basically like a jacket shell. I'm wondering if I wouldn't be better off buying a large, square, 45 degree bag for half the price, or even a wool blanket to throw over the top of me. I'm not planning on hiking my camp in, so neither of those would be too large.

[ChickNorris]

I vote wool.

[Irving]

Well, if throwing my zero degree bag over me last time kept me comfortable enough to sleep, but only if I didn't move, I just can't imagine that a liner or thin wool blanket will do crap in comparison. I have to keep perspective before I run off and but more stuff.

On another note, I have plastic tent stakes and I hate them. I also have the thin steel ones that come with tents and those are just as bad. Steel triangle shaped, or twisted aluminum ones any better? I can pretty easily bend the aluminum ones in my hands, so I feel like those might be more fancy visual marketing than anything.

[ChickNorris]

I vote nothing.

[Irving]

I need to concentrate more on having hot food to keep my mood up I think.

[Irving]

It's going to be cold this week. Think I'll sleep outside and experiment a little.

[ChickNorris]

There you go.

[henpecked]

Murdochs has 12 inch steel bars in the electric fence area.
Sportsman guide has a -30 oversize canvas sleeping bag with flannel inside for 100 bucks. We even use them in the summer

[Irving]

I was looking hard at those cheaper below zero bags for sure.

Costco or Sam's has a bulk box of Mountain House stuff for $60 (iirc), and I can eat that stuff for every meal. With the single burner propane stove, that should make it easy. Might even treat myself to some coffee.

[whitewalrus]

I'm at the Army Surplus store now. They have a military bivy for $59, and it's basically like a jacket shell. I'm wondering if I wouldn't be better off buying a large, square, 45 degree bag for half the price, or even a wool blanket to throw over the top of me. I'm not planning on hiking my camp in, so neither of those would be too large.

The military bivy is just a gore-tex shell - it will help a little, but if you are already inside a tent, getting more layers like the extra sleeping bag you mention would keep you warmer.

I have the 3 bag system the military uses, its great if you are taller person, but if you don't need the modularity of the system, there are other choices. I got it because I typically archery hunt, be it early or late out in the plains.

My advice: keep your clothes for the next day inside the bag, it will act as additional insulation and then it will be warm when you wake up and get into them. As mentioned by Hummer, soups and hot liquids can really warm you up and raise your morale.

[whitewalrus]

I was looking hard at those cheaper below zero bags for sure.

Costco or Sam's has a bulk box of Mountain House stuff for $60 (iirc), and I can eat that stuff for every meal. With the single burner propane stove, that should make it easy. Might even treat myself to some coffee.

The MRE's are great for not having to deal with meal planning, throw a case in the truck and go.

[def90]

You don't need a below zero bag. Get a pair of puffy pants and a puffy jacket. Wear the pants and jacket inside the bag. It will bring the rating of the bag down another 20 degrees or more as well as you will already be dressed in nice and toasty outerwear for when you eventually get up in the morning. Don't wear a bunch of stuff underneath the puffy jacket and pants, let the down jacket and pants do the insulating work. Also you need to break the thermal connection between you and the ground, get a good pad or two or three. If you are car camping put a pad or two under you as well as a thick comforter.

Other things I do are.. get a nice beanie, one that is long enough that you can pull down over your face, it's amazing how much warmer you are when you have a beanie pulled down over your face. Get a pair of those down booties as well for your feet.

[MrAK]

I feel sorta bad as I picked up some almost new seeming Mountain Hardwear cold weather sleeping bags from another member here months ago. While out prospecting recently I slept on the roof rack of my SUV in one and was almost too hot while in boxers.

On a positive note, I used to use these liners when sleeping at hotels while working on the road. They won’t give much extra warmth but they’re easier to clean than your sleeping bag and give an extra layer of protection to your bag if you’re sleeping in regular clothes.

https://www.amazon.com/Cocoon-TravelSheet-Natural-86-Inch-35-Inch/dp/B001DXC600/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=cocoon+sleeping+bag+liners&qid=1570503970&sprefix=cocoon+sl&sr=8-5

A nice chocolate bar smothered with peanut butter is a good treat before bedtime.

[Irving]

I saw those liners as well, and with some of the cheap hotels I have to sleep in for work, I may pick one up anyway.

[JohnnyEgo]

If you want to swing up my way, you are welcome to borrow my JetBoil. It does exactly one thing; boil about 2 cups of water really, really fast. So if you are going to Mountain Home it, or need a quick French Press cup of coffee or a hearty oatmeal, it will get the job done quick. Otherwise, it's a bit of a one note wonder.

For hard-pack Colorado ground, I just buy the cheap nail-style stakes at pretty much anywhere, and pound them into the ground with an Engineer's hammer. My Kingdom is known to be a flight risk in high winds, I guy mine the hell down properly, and it has yet to go sailing. The nail style aren't great for loose-pack ground, though.

[Irving]

Thanks, but I should be alright with what I have.

Tent camping for muzzleloader a few weeks ago I got exactly ONE tent stake into the ground all the way. I had both the previously mentioned cheap steel that comes with every tent, and the big plastic ones Army Surplus sells. The only one I was able to pound is was the one I placed right on the center of a weed, because I knew there was probably not a rock there. Every other one hit a rock. Oh yeah, the plastic tent stakes just explode when you hit a rock.

[buffalobo]

Stay dry

Always have dry clothes to change into

Always put on dry sleeping clothes

Insulate yourself from ground

Ample room to dress without gymnastics.

Hot food, small campstoves are worth the weight/space/effort.

Be prepared to be cold at times. It's cold weather camping. The gear you need to be comfortable will change with your circumstances and experience.

Or

A compact size pop up camper mounted on your cargo trailer would be ideal.

[StagLefty]

Buffalobo gave the most important advice I was going to give "always put on dry sleeping clothes" I used to hold winter camping training in Scouts for Klondikes. I could always tell the kids who listened on the first morning by the ones who were okay in the morning and the ones who were miserable. If you wear pac boots like Sorels,take the liners out at night and put them in the bottom of your sleeping otherwise they'll freeze from the sweat in them and your feet will be miserable in a short time. I loved winter camping after learning how to do it properly.

[Gman]

Thanks, but I should be alright with what I have.

Tent camping for muzzleloader a few weeks ago I got exactly ONE tent stake into the ground all the way. I had both the previously mentioned cheap steel that comes with every tent, and the big plastic ones Army Surplus sells. The only one I was able to pound is was the one I placed right on the center of a weed, because I knew there was probably not a rock there. Every other one hit a rock. Oh yeah, the plastic tent stakes just explode when you hit a rock.
Amazon: IUME 4 Pack / 8 Pack / 10 Pack Black Heavy Duty High Strength Steel Camping Tent Stakes Peg Unbreakable and Inflexible (https://smile.amazon.com/IUME-Strength-Unbreakable-Inflexible-Gardening/dp/B07B3M6P5P/)

[Irving]

Those are at the Surplus store, I guess I'll pick some up.

[hatidua]

A good warm sleeping bag and appropriate warm clothes make a big difference. Crawling out of a bag that isn't warm enough to face a day in winter is daunting.

A large portion of my annual fishing is in the colder months and many days never make it above freezing, with many nights going below zero with waders and boots being frozen solid in the morning....not always amusing.

I use various sleeping bags and choose the bag based on it being rated for at least 20* colder than the forecast, 30* lower than the forecast doesn't hurt anything. My go-to winter bag is the MH Ghost, rated at -40* which has been ample for even winter 14'ers. For daytime activities, it's layering based on activity level. If you are active, it doesn't take much to stay warm, even at 10* but if you are sitting around, it can really take a lot of goose feathers to stay comfortable. For being active, I use a really light Patagonia down sweater under a shell. If I'm sitting around camp and it's cold, I'm wearing a Mountain Hardwear "Absolute Zero" parka.

The lower the volume of a tent (all else being equal), the warmer it's going to be when humans are in it. A really tall tent that allows for standing up contains a lot of air to warm up.

Be extremely careful if you intend to cook inside a tent. I've seen two tents essentially explode and disappear in a matter of less than 20 seconds as a result of either flames or ignited butane. In both instances the people were fairly messed up as a result.

A really warm sleeping bag is easy to unzip to cool off, but a sleeping bag that isn't rated for the conditions can only be zipped to the top and then it's just plain cold.

[Irving]

Definitely not planning on cooking in the tent. I find that once dressed and moving around, things are, generally, a lot more tolerable.

[JohnnyEgo]

One other thing I don't recall having seen in the myriad of good advice that has already been given is to be wary of compression with your down bag. Sometimes the weight of multiple layers in or on the bag will compromise the insulation of the loft. Select areas of compression can also cause cold spots. This occasionaly happens to me in the elbow areas in particular. I usually pull my bag out right when I get the tent out, and then fluff it again before I climb into it at night.

[Irving]

Yes, and not storing the bag compressed.

Everyone has given wonderful advice so far. Thanks everyone.

[Madeinhb]

I have a 4Runner and camp inside it. I have a comfy cot to sleep on. It works great. Looking into rooftop tents to attach to the top. It not sure I?d do that in the winter.


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[Duman]

My sleeping bag is a Wiggy's, it stores compressed just fine, it's tested for long term compressed storage.

The Cocoon, in silk, actually increases my warmth in the bag. YMMV

Getting out of a warm sleeping bag, in really cold temps, sucks.

[Irving]

Tossing around the idea of selling the Amigo and getting a Trooper, mostly for the size increase; but that won't happen for a while.

[rustycrusty]

Biggest band for buck is going to be a cheap cot.

Use the sleeping pads on top of the cot.

Sleeping on the ground amplifies misery more than anything else in cold weather.

Don?t bivvy unless you want to wake up in a puddle.

Make yourself a breath catch and tuck it under your chin and to the top of the tent. Cotton t-shirt works well. It will catch the majority of the moisture you exhale, and keep it off the inside of the tent.

Union suit. Live in one.


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[hatidua]

I have a 4Runner and camp inside it.

I do that. I have ZERO interest in RTT's as it would be suicidal at 2am when the bladder is screaming, I'd be seeing the ortho surgeon the next day if I tried a RTT.

Inside works just fine for me:

https://markpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/sMarkLewis-4788.jpg

[Irving]

So a friend offered to take me to his spot since his hunting buddies moved away and he doesn't really hunt. I put in and drew a tag and he didn't. He was going to go with me anyway, but now he'll be out of town for work. On top of that, we think he might have been hunting in the next unit over so he can't even show me on a map where their spot was since I can't hunt there.

Soooo, if this thread also turns into advice on GMU 33 with a buck tag and a cow tag, have it. Looking to camp where I can get my 5'x8' utility trailer, then hike away from the roads.

[Frac]

Good advice so far. I finally upgraded to a 10x10 Kodiak Canvas with buddy heater. Before that, I was using a two person tent. I hunt 2nd rifle and I can remember a couple years in the teens at night.

I wear a puffy coat inside the bag, as others have mentioned.

Honestly, my blanket is my favorite comfort item when car camping. I have a blue acrylic/wool fleece blanket in queen size. I fold it in half and lay it over my bag. Tuck it under my chin. It really helps hold in the warmth in my cheap 15 degree bag.

I second the Jetboil. I even take my Jetboil on hotel trips. A hot cup of coffee in the morning really helps me. I do take some Mountain House meals for hot dinners.

Coleman Fold N Go propane grill. Small and easy for car camping. Nothing like a good beef burger or bratwurst after a day hunting. Cost is about $50.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191009/56b80e33deeebd80b20ef8808d01c77a.jpg

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[def90]

Getting out of a warm sleeping bag, in really cold temps, sucks.

Hence a really nice puffy jacket and pants. Wake up and still be in your nice and warm bag while making coffee.

[JohnnyEgo]

My sleeping bag is a Wiggy's, it stores compressed just fine, it's tested for long term compressed storage.

The Cocoon, in silk, actually increases my warmth in the bag. YMMV

Getting out of a warm sleeping bag, in really cold temps, sucks.

You are the second person to mention the Wiggy's in a week. We went on an overnight in Wyoming about two weeks ago, and the nighttime temps dropped into the lower 20s. Lot of folks found out those temp ratings are about survival, not comfort. My cold weather bag has shrank a little over the years (my story and I am sticking to it). One of the other Dads in the pack mentioned that he bought a Wiggys as a deployment bag, and absolutely loves it. Tells me it is the best thing going by far. I'm willing to put out the cash, but it would make me feel a little better to have another testimonial, as I gather these are not exactly mainstream bags. Would love to know what you think of yours.

[Irving]

I'm interested as well. My brother worked for a GoLite retail store and got this, I think, "3 season" bag for Christmas one year. No actual temp wearing, but I think it's supposed to be to 20 degrees. From what I understand, GoLite is/was an expensive brand and I'm glad I didn't have to pay for it. I think I see more cold weather seasons in my future so I'm interested in other brands for additional gear.

[Mtneer]

Lots of good advice so far. Some random thoughts.

Take sleeping bag temperature ratings with a pound of salt. If it says 20?F, it will keep you warm to freezing for a male and 45?F for a female. Layering bags works if they don't compress one another (as noted previously). But starting with a 0?F bag that has room for warm clothing is better; this is much bigger inside than normal. For hunting/car camping, synthetic insulation makes more sense than down because it's cheaper, weight/bulk don't matter, more forgiving of condensation build up within the insulation over several days. Brands like North Face, Marmot, Mtn Hardwear, etc will cost more but are better values in the long run IMHO. Wiggy has a following but also makes a lot of bogus claims; nothing special but decent value. Never store sleeping bags compressed in a stuff sack if you want it to last.

It's hard to have too much foam insulation underneath you. A minimum R-value of 5 is essential for sleeping on snow, frozen ground, or a cot. You can stack pads to get there but putting an air mattress on top negates much of the value due to air circulation as you move.

A winter tent has a fly that goes all the way to the ground. The difference in warmth versus a partial fly on summer tents is dramatic. It also helps reduce condensation on the walls. But ones that can hold up to a snow load aren't cheap--you reeealy don't want to have tent collapse in a storm. A camper is probably your better investment. Be hyper careful about ventilation when using stove or heater inside a tent or camper. Carbon monoxide is deadly.

Much easier to keep warm than trying to warm up after you've gotten cold. Add layers before you get chilled. It's a myth that you lose more heat through your head but you still want to protect your head, ears, and neck. If you don't have a beard, a face mask can help when the wind and temps are brutal.

Stay hydrated and eat plenty of fat, all day and especially before bed--there are no bad calories in winter conditions. Be prepared for your water jug to freeze if you're out for several days. Even 15 gallons can turn to a block (burying it in snow can help if the air temp is below 0F). If you have to melt snow, make sure there is water in the pot before adding or you will "burn water". A big pot, hot stove that won't tip over, and shovel really helps.

When it's really cold, fill a water bottle with hot water and put in the foot of your sleeping bag. Just make damned sure the lid is on tight. A wide-mouth pee bottle is your friend (ladies use the funnel thingy). But make sure it's a different shape than your water bottle so there's no confusion in the dark!

[Irving]

I got some funny/interesting experience peeing in bottles from last year for sure.

[ray1970]

Trucker bombs.

[ChickNorris]

Trucker bombs.

?

[ray1970]

It?s when the truck drivers urinate in bottles and then toss them out the window while they?re going down the road.

[ChickNorris]

Thought that was only Comcast employees.




Ha

[JohnnyDrama]

I like wool clothing as a base layer. It's pricey but keeps me much more comfortable than synthetics.

[Irving]

Getting ready for the next two nights.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Wp5ZVxP18qBya4wMAqASY1zQe9HIjFGjGr-JNlPW8nHJYc9qcAc9hXSIHCYzPbINWig3muKNUNTOkVDWb6LXT zMz5Mvcr5wxVtDlcNq0djQIGV6EgeTLREhZXWD1LldjgOaxhV9 KMuKNoYyEqsGNw4l9nGaSJmc08WbswY1FsZ4wVjTcoM9SqvDtz tb5i5Wqog7ncywLvyGOIE6k7GQJ3vKbeUx8Jj71YkB6yOuIsRQ Kid3QDqRx_E5dsDXH-fSqZx3dgz10JqCzU4L7ZhS6b81RUI5ivIkVhL3FkXI10shTaMQ pejP0YpvUxpTd6tprloXtWMo-X5_y21gydrTcHgslcKv53qxn6B5loxqO8-VEAMctqJtkfR-0yu2c_uoe14ESEbjWnxGJAGySJZPGNrxkF7BoKn9AaPvbUpOzO maCURuQdVYHnPVUXM2u2VUCGTqdYJRZW3t9xnrYEAyZ8pARmb2 Peyv7KXSI_hoOTLgfzGKTLWe4_M8Q2zUfaE6zKl1bZEuJRg71B PbcR65QLy5ncsE1zdQNjkRkjRuKJHvu5LglH3obZB_Gx1O4YqC I4jFZFz0oA7U7GaQuVnWKPNScJRVc1riSmoa8J5b1o2aZAW28n PmSzzHqObHff2keGG_rorvFI9fvlF4H3TphPtDuS0y4-CmMLbfSh3X0PKkfhfJBqCW5-Osb2IBfZ203XQtoiAOP8w6_6UUlZ-GPYL0oGnPvgiSpOqYHQEZcRAguQAeI=w1112-h625-no

[Madeinhb]

I do that. I have ZERO interest in RTT's as it would be suicidal at 2am when the bladder is screaming, I'd be seeing the ortho surgeon the next day if I tried a RTT.

Inside works just fine for me:

https://markpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/sMarkLewis-4788.jpg

Yea. I like the idea of the RTT. I don?t get up in middle of night so wouldn?t be an issue. They are just too pricey, so I might just spruce up the interior. Like putting together ?blinds? so people can?t look in and what not.


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[def90]

I think you want a smaller tent with a fly that fully covers it. Basically the heta that escapes your bag will heat the tent, a bigger tent means more airspace to heat. The full fly also helps hold more heat in and cold air/wind out.

[Irving]

Oh for sure, that's just what I have.

I have a different 3 season, 3 person, but the entire tent is screen material, with a rain fly that goes to about 2" from the ground, but is twice as wide as the tent. That somehow seemed like it'd be cooler.

[Irving]

Okay, climbed in at 12:00am. I think the initial heat of being in my house carried a long way. It's lightly raining and is 24 degrees. I boiled some water and stick inside a tall water bottle to stick at my feet.

I have the zero degree, cloth, Nebo bag. Inside are two of the reflective Z-lite pads. On top of the pads, but still inside the zero degree bag, is my 3 season, down fill, GoLite bag. I'm wearing fleece bottom and top, with wool socks, and a fleece cap with a neck gator. I have gloves, but not wearing them while on phone.

Getting in initially was very warm. Now that it's been almost 15 minutes, any part of me outside the bag is cold (fingers and one forearm). Any cold parts will warm up once covered. Now that my face and hands have cooled down, I can really tell how much heat this water bottle is putting out. It's just about uncomfortable how hot my feet feel right now. Regular house pillow. I'll report later.

[Irving]

Woke up at 6am, slept through the night just fine without waking at all. Temp readings inside the tent on the wall/ceiling is 41, even though it's frozen. Temp in the grass is 32. Water bottle temp is 92. Pretty comfortable night. Re-entry to bag/s went okay and everything is comfortable right away, except the pillow moved and now a frozen part is right on the back of my neck. So far things went very well.

[MrAK]

Yea. I like the idea of the RTT. I don?t get up in middle of night so wouldn?t be an issue. They are just too pricey, so I might just spruce up the interior. Like putting together ?blinds? so people can?t look in and what not.


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I like the idea of a RTT as well and deals can definitely be found on lightly used ones, it’s just that my FJ Cruiser is my DD and is already a gas hog without a 200lb+ brick on top that I won’t want to repeatedly take off and put back on.

[MrAK]

Woke up at 6am, slept through the night just fine without waking at all. Temp readings inside the tent on the wall/ceiling is 41, even though it's frozen. Temp in the grass is 32. Water bottle temp is 92. Pretty comfortable night. Re-entry to bag/s went okay and everything is comfortable right away, except the pillow moved and now a frozen part is right on the back of my neck. So far things went very well.

Best of luck on the hunt today

[Irving]

Thanks, but the hunt doesn't start until Oct 19. I'm just tent camping in my backyard to work out the kinks and see what can be improved upon.

[MrAK]

I missed that part, good idea to get yourself used to the abuse by sleeping outside though. I find the cold to be much more tolerable after you repeatedly subject yourself to it.

[Firehaus]

I like the idea of a RTT as well and deals can definitely be found on lightly used ones, it?s just that my FJ Cruiser is my DD and is already a gas hog without a 200lb+ brick on top that I won?t want to repeatedly take off and put back on.

I thought the same thing on top of my jeep. A trailer with RTT is the way to go. Its nice to still be able to drive away from the tent.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191011/dcc5ff23c9caeaa41890168c08f61089.jpg



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[Irving]

I'm considering quickly turning my trailer into an insulated hut with tarp, pvc pipe for frame, and poly iso board for insulation. Shouldn't weigh much, or cost too much, and I have a feeling that 3" poly iso walls and ceiling and floor will make for a MUCH more cozy sleeping/dressing area.

[MrAK]

I thought the same thing on top of my jeep. A trailer with RTT is the way to go. Its nice to still be able to drive away from the tent.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191011/dcc5ff23c9caeaa41890168c08f61089.jpg



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I’d have a hard time getting the willpower to return home if I had a trailer setup like that with a RTT and a Foxwing style awning.

[Firehaus]

I?d have a hard time getting the willpower to return home if I had a trailer setup like that with a RTT and a Foxwing style awning.

7 days hunting weren?t too bad. Memory foam bed toppers make it much more comfortable. Kohls usually has some super cheap after they are returned. Help insulate your sleeping platform.


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[kidicarus13]

Thanks, but the hunt doesn't start until Oct 19. I'm just tent camping in my backyard to work out the kinks and see what can be improved upon.LOL [emoji1787]

[Irving]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rvY04bhOdmJYF0cX4WWzXZPXGDofabBc2yQnjZKEFx34bRbHHD m0MOgowoBfMIqf0tRkw5-u_9-inosPdE7e3q-yCdrP2WqR6raF21-fRAZigwVnyohEYisk0NcmkA7mwi_uMrTXQTl3R98FlhR9TWs5n F-pHBqkvytCy1Q3pSXh8Xb1INfxGLUf5rfLpT3EaKXNL2fvFF6rn 0-vs1iAHkw8b3ys1Imze81_HXm72BHvtCqaKAT1wyJ1KWdNf5b-0Y-5h9j8G0NBMRT1v8mQTWIpSRR6t8nqIj18HDGTwqLRnChqTSh1l vql8wjz8KqLNjnIbW4J3MFe_8h7V5tbUIwYlrPV2Sz9-3DG8QsELNxtZ8gH8raKpOx2wNRxoqaG5Jbhpd2BrkgucoxBkYu Y2eUVThVylA4ycGA65fZInPxFNo4sUubXzJjl-VqW_XyVgKvQ2KU_4EdGSuT9vI-u_EPBuRn0r3Uk13LaWYpfSzw890hIwEbFRyMoyq-6y4EwnwqrEtSjx81lpuuda1bW3IkWCLNQjyUk1ELZjAESU4REZ U843PyE_RY-WG9H0U19SgkvBhntYnqrZD9MU2-Zez0RjgBkqAzM5dT6fg3XY9odv1z01Kwk_Xe220UHRIF8oJ34W-e60_GC-NTAlvhKeGGl5VNAJ6rPdct9We3xFGMLkFskTcm94awby4DSeBl HTe66_ipHpQDowdMkNYpG3PrRFSZREEd6SxVIlTvnawm1U8le= w1112-h625-no

Thanks for all the advice given in this thread. I was VERY comfortable camping during 2nd rifle this year. One day I slept in and even slept about ten hours. After the temp dropped, there was a night where it warmed up a bit and I was actually too warm. I used this smaller tent with a full rain fly that I got from a member here last year. The set-up was my zero degree Nebo bag with two of the Z-lite pads inside the big bag. On top of the pads, I put my three season down bag. Everything was on top of an inflatable mattress. I used an inflatable pillow and a camp pillow. Everything worked out well and I only used the MrBuddy heater right before bed and first thing in the morning to warm the tent up enough to change.

[whitewalrus]

Glad you were able to stay warm and comfortable while camping. Were you able to fill your tag?

[Irving]

I filled zero of my three tags on this trip. I'm pretty sure early on I spooked a single cow out of my camp after I returned from hiking all over the damn mountain. I saw a spike so small I wouldn't even feel comfortable shooting on the Friday before the season opened, otherwise saw only does the entire time. There were bear tracks in the snow 19 yards from my tent, so I ran out and bought a bear tag and then never saw him again and bailed to avoid much heavier snow. I've had eight tags this year, and only filled one. It feels pretty bad.

[Frac]

Sounds like you stayed pretty warm. We?re you using two sleeping bags, one inside the other?

It turns out I?m not much of a hunter either. I have found some places where I can reliably find deer, but I haven?t figured out elk in 4 seasons of trying.

I was up around 10,500 feet next to a ridge and heard 50mph winds and 10? of snow was on the way. So, I picked up camp and moved to a hotel. Honestly, I hunted harder because my back didn?t hurt every morning.

This was the setup Friday night.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191028/034f41ea3dceb8057213d49877931577.jpg


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[Irving]

Yeah, two bags, one inside the other, with sleeping pads in the mix as well for my own comfort. I'm a side sleeper and have found I need a certain level of padding to avoid feeling like I'm balancing my entire weight on one hip or the other.

I was trying to power through an evening hunt where the snow really started to come down, and even though the breeze felt light, a tree came down into other trees, then about 30 seconds later they all feel into yet another group of trees. For a moment I was seriously concerned a truck had careened off a switch back at speed, until I remembered I want close to a road. This was the second time that trip that wind was talking out trees around me. That's about when I decided to pack it up. If I couldn't pass the test of nature, at least I could make progress on the test of marriage and come home a few days early.

[Frac]

It was definitely cold out. One thing I learned this trip: tarps and snow are not a good combo.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191028/b4958dd6ccace516b8c2058ae491eedc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191028/00175a8023810cfe7e36148d71e0f4d2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191028/1fd95308e206759db88cbab23092ad4b.jpg


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[Frac]

This was the second time that trip that wind was talking out trees around me. That's about when I decided to pack it up. If I couldn't pass the test of nature, at least I could make progress on the test of marriage and come home a few days early.

Yikes! Blowdowns are serious business. Three years ago was my first solo camp during second rifle. I was in a 2-man tent like what you have there. 50mph winds and 5 inches of snow came down the first night. I did NOT sleep well. Luckily I didn?t have trees coming down around me.



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[whitewalrus]

I filled zero of my three tags on this trip. I'm pretty sure early on I spooked a single cow out of my camp after I returned from hiking all over the damn mountain. I saw a spike so small I wouldn't even feel comfortable shooting on the Friday before the season opened, otherwise saw only does the entire time. There were bear tracks in the snow 19 yards from my tent, so I ran out and bought a bear tag and then never saw him again and bailed to avoid much heavier snow. I've had eight tags this year, and only filled one. It feels pretty bad.

Sorry to hear, I have also grown accustom to the taste of tag soup...however it still does have kind of a bitter taste :)

[Irving]

Yeah, I had a 15 gallon blue barrel full of water, and I would have to wait until mid day for the transfer pump to unfreeze. I'd refill water bottles and keep them in an empty cooler in the car. Then I had access to water in the morning and evening if I needed. I also completely forgot to put tape over my barrel. If I was really doing some bushwhacking, I'd take the bolt out and check when I got nervous.

[ChickNorris]

I have absolutely no idea what that last sentence meant.

Nervous about & check for what?

[BPTactical]

I have absolutely no idea what that last sentence meant.

Nervous about & check for what?

Making sure ice did not form in the barrel/chamber.
It can lead to undesired results.

My answer to cold weather when camping:79286

[ChickNorris]

Making sure ice did not form in the barrel/chamber.
It can lead to undesired results.



Oh right. I recently read about this.

Suppose that best illustrates the difference between knowledge and experience as I haven't been hunting since I was 10 & I was only tagging along with my father.

Learned to drive the jeep because I went though so there's that.

[Irving]

Yeah what Bert said, or even any debris at all from crawling around through stuff. I think the only reason my daughter ever agrees to go hunting with me is because she knows I'll let her drive. This year she drove 13 miles of dirt road pulling my little trailer.

[ChickNorris]

Yeah, I had a 15 gallon blue barrel full of water, and I would have to wait until mid day for the transfer pump to unfreeze. I'd refill water bottles and keep them in an empty cooler in the car. Then I had access to water in the morning and evening if I needed. I also completely forgot to put tape over my barrel. If I was really doing some bushwhacking, I'd take the bolt out and check when I got nervous.

That & the barrel to barrel non sequitur threw me off, briefly.

[Irving]

Haha, yeah reading again, that's awkward .

[Erni]

Yeah, I had a 15 gallon blue barrel full of water, and I would have to wait until mid day for the transfer pump to unfreeze. I'd refill water bottles and keep them in an empty cooler in the car. Then I had access to water in the morning and evening if I needed. I also completely forgot to put tape over my barrel. If I was really doing some bushwhacking, I'd take the bolt out and check when I got nervous.
Finger cots are your friend here.

[Frac]

I forgot the electrical tape also, but I always carry a well-stocked first aid kit. Especially so, since the daughter was with me. I improvised and used gauze tape from the kit.

It is amazing how even a little bit of snow down the muzzle will melt and refreeze. I?ve seen mud down a barrel when pheasant hunting a couple years ago. That one was a bear because the mud wasn?t frozen in the ground but it instantly froze in the barrel and cold air. Wow, what a pain to clean out! We pushed most of it out with a stick and then pulled a milo stalk through the barrel like a brush.


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[Frac]

Yeah what Bert said, or even any debris at all from crawling around through stuff. I think the only reason my daughter ever agrees to go hunting with me is because she knows I'll let her drive. This year she drove 13 miles of dirt road pulling my little trailer.

Nice! I need to take mine out with the old Xterra to learn some off-road driving. I didn?t want to drive my new truck through this kind of stuff, let alone ask her to try it.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191029/b9448264b472e00d2b52e4bebadedea4.jpg

Mine goes because she?s my hunting buddy! Here she is making a phone call home from a spot we call the overlook.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191029/7a375bb80bb2d8b900985e08c5e05cd9.jpg


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[Irving]

Chains became necessary once it snowed a few times. There were some scary slide marks going off the edge, then right back onto the road. The only thing I can think of was it might have been a trailer. I remember last year it seemed like it took me 30-40 minutes to put on the chains, so I was very reluctant to take them off or put them on. This year I tried a different way and as long as I wasn't in a hole, I could get a chain on a tire in under 60 seconds a tire. Total game changer.

[Frac]

Nice! What chains did you get? The Xterra goes through stuff like that no problem so I haven?t chained it up yet.

For the truck I bought Security Chain Co Super Z chains. Very quick to chain up.


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[Irving]

I have Super Z Chains also. I think I got them off of here years ago. It was more the packed ice on the switch backs that was the problem.

[Frac]

Oh yea, snowpack and ice is no fun. We ran into that thanksgiving week last year hunting Wyoming. I didn?t use the chains but probably should have.


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[BPTactical]

Finger cots are your friend here.

So, you do have a small gun[Flower]

[JohnnyEgo]

Seems like nearly everyone decided to sleep in the great outdoors this weekend. Glad to hear you stayed warm, Irving!

We had a Cub Scout camping event at the Delatour Scout Ranch over in Red Feather this weekend. Couple hundred Cub Scouts from all over the North Front Range. Saturday day hit nearly 70?. Wide shot of the Cub Scout side of the camp:
http://www.johnnyego.com/photography/vincent/2019/fallfest/fallfest08.JPG

About 5:00 PM when the sun started going down, the temp dropped quick and the winds picked up. Saw a couple dome tents go flying, and several folks had snapped fiberglass poles. I didn't want to pitch my tent into the wind, because I didn't want what little heat it might hold to be blown through the whole evening. So instead, I pitched broadside to the wind, but I staked the hell out of the windward side. It worked pretty good; tent was still there and standing fine as other large tents around us were collapsing. The guys in the smaller tents were mostly fine, and probably a lot warmer.
http://www.johnnyego.com/photography/vincent/2019/fallfest/fallfest06.JPG
http://www.johnnyego.com/photography/vincent/2019/fallfest/fallfest07.JPG

By 7:00 PM, weather panic appeared to have set in, and tents came down and families left in droves. I told my son I didn't haul a truckload of camping gear out there for kicks. So we stayed, with four other Dads and their kids from our pack. Curiously enough, all the women left, carpooling with one another where necessary, no doubt because the extra X chromosome confers better survival wisdom. My tent is definitely a three season tent, and that giant screen door did little to keep the heat in. However, the folks at REI sold me on two Exped Mega Mats when I came in to rent a 0? sleeping bag. Best air mattress I've ever slept on, and the insulation was fantastic. Didn't even need the closed cell foam pads. Also picked up a pair of $60 'Teton' branded cheap Chinese import bags at Sportsmans. I figured like Irving, we'd nest our mummy bags inside of them to boost up the rating. But they worked way, way better than I had anticipated, and I ended up not using my mummy bag at all. It dropped down to 17? overnight, but we both slept very warmly.
http://www.johnnyego.com/photography/vincent/2019/fallfest/fallfest11.JPG

On our last trip to Wyoming last month, I found my Coleman stove wasn't cutting it. It was in the low 20s and windy, and the stove couldn't run both burners at the same time and boil a stock-pot full of water. So I traded in some reward points at Cabelas and walked out with the entry level Camp Chef Explorer. This thing is absolutely magnificent. When we woke up, the burner heads had clogged with snow and ice. I had to warm up a few jets with a match to thaw enough for the gas to flow. But once a couple nozzles lit, the burners cleared themselves super quick. I had no problem at all running both burners to boil that stock-pot of water for hot chocolate, and the coffee percolator. High temp boiled the whole stock-pot super quick, faster than the coffee took to start perking on medium on the other burner. And when we were done, I turned the air-fuel valve way down and both burners produced a large yellow flame that several kids and adults huddled around to warm hands. For car camping, this thing is a beast, and I wish my father had one when I was a scout.

http://www.johnnyego.com/photography/vincent/2019/fallfest/fallfest12.JPG

The snow picked up in earnest over the course of the morning, and by the time we broke camp at 11:00, there was about five inches of accumulation. Coming up the the dirt road incline towards 287 had some nasty spots that had me reaching for 4-Low, until I remembered I drive a long-bed 2wd Florida truck, so I just grit my teeth, backed off a few gears, and took it steady and slow. I have snow tires, but it did make me ponder whether I should own chains if I am going to continue to make questionable life choices. Will have to give the Super Zs a look.

Edit: See the board turned all my alt-code degree symbols to question marks.

[Irving]

Chains are to off road conditions what traction control and snow tires are to on road conditions. It feels like cheating.

[whitewalrus]

Chains are to off road conditions what traction control and snow tires are to on road conditions. It feels like cheating.

better to cheat than to slide off a cliff

[SamuraiCO]

Making sure ice did not form in the barrel/chamber.
It can lead to undesired results.

My answer to cold weather when camping:79286

Same manufacture I am looking at

[Erni]

So, you do have a small gun[Flower]
I'd rather live with those jokes than explain to the wife why I bought a pack of rubbers prior to going "hunting".

[Irving]

I'd rather live with those jokes than explain to the wife why I bought a pack of rubbers prior to going "hunting".

No shit, my wife asked why I had a pink lighter the other day. I think that thing has been kicking around my camping vehicle for probably a few years now. How am I supposed to answer that? I was like, "Of all the things in the entire world that I care about, or even notice, what color a lighter is doesn't even make the list."

Anyway, anyone read this thread and get all jealous and sleep in their back yard these last few days?

[Gman]

"I have a pink lighter because I'm supporting the fight against breast cancer. Do you have a problem with that?"

[Rucker61]

You just have the have the right tarp.

79293