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RblDiver
10-08-2019, 12:32
Total armchair lawyer question I was pondering today. As we know, the left loves to use the words "well-regulated" in their interpretation of the Second Amendment. Well, that part is talking about the militia.

Given that 10 US Code Section 246 defines the militia as "able-bodied males at least 17 years of age" (and other various requirements/groups), I was armchair lawyer wondering, could a 17-year-old presumably go to buy a gun so as to fulfill their Constitutional duties, and, if refused for being under 18/21, sue to force a retailer to sell to them?

I know there is currently the fight about pistols versus rifles/etc selling age limits, and those are being fought, but I was just wondering about ANY firearms sale to a 17-year-old male in the first place. Something to ponder.

def90
10-08-2019, 13:52
Regardless of what the constitution and the personal writings of our forefathers that wrote the constitution and the bill of rights say the courts have decided that it doesn't matter.

Gman
10-08-2019, 14:30
17 is still not the age of majority (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_majority) (18, except Alabama, Nebraska, and Mississippi).

CS1983
10-08-2019, 15:19
Age of majority doesn’t apply. You’re thinking of age of license.

FoxtArt
10-08-2019, 15:30
Silly wabbit, rules are for citizens. Not governments.

Answer: No, you can't. Or at least, you can (much like you can sue the government for housing reptiles in people skin that ate your grandmother) but you're going to be as successful as the example I just gave.

Gman
10-08-2019, 15:38
Age of majority doesn’t apply. You’re thinking of age of license.

Nope.

If you're not able to legally sign a contract, how in the hell are you going to certify a 4473?

FoxtArt
10-08-2019, 15:45
The reality is, while you can pick and choose something from U.S.C. (250,000 pages) or F.C.R. (180,000 pages), they are covertly and entirely rewritten in contradictory precedence that spans millions upon millions of pages. The argument's already lost, you just don't see it looking at the clearly written law. We are a judicial oligarchy, not a republic.

Irving
10-08-2019, 15:49
Nope.

If you're not able to legally sign a contract, how in the hell are you going to certify a 4473?

Different things. A 4473 isn't a contact. If that were the case, no one could get a job and fill out tax forms before 18 either.

BushMasterBoy
10-08-2019, 15:59
DADT?

CS1983
10-08-2019, 17:06
Nope.

If you're not able to legally sign a contract, how in the hell are you going to certify a 4473?

4473 has nothing to do with buying a gun except in an ancillary manner; and, the concept still relates to license(!). Majority and license are closely entwined, but distinct concepts.

For example, in Alabama the age of majority is 19, but in Alabama, one can buy a rifle at 18 (which is the age of license for said action), 21 for a pistol, all considered via a gun store. That is the age of license. No idea what the difference is for private sales.

https://www.lawserver.com/law/articles/age-of-majority
https://gun.laws.com/state-gun-laws/alabama-gun-laws

Mississippi is even weirder! Their age of majority is 21, but their age of license for weapons purchases is 18. https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/ccw_reciprocity_map/ms-gun-laws/

spqrzilla
10-08-2019, 17:26
There have been several lawsuits over the different age limits in Federal and state laws. None have been successful yet.

CS1983
10-08-2019, 18:26
That’s because we have a legal system instead of a justice system.

Gman
10-08-2019, 18:46
Should be able to do anything 'adult' at 18 IMHO.

Gman
10-08-2019, 18:53
4473 has nothing to do with buying a gun except in an ancillary manner; and, the concept still relates to license(!). Majority and license are closely entwined, but distinct concepts.

For example, in Alabama the age of majority is 19, but in Alabama, one can buy a rifle at 18 (which is the age of license for said action), 21 for a pistol, all considered via a gun store. That is the age of license. No idea what the difference is for private sales.

https://www.lawserver.com/law/articles/age-of-majority
https://gun.laws.com/state-gun-laws/alabama-gun-laws

Mississippi is even weirder! Their age of majority is 21, but their age of license for weapons purchases is 18. https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/ccw_reciprocity_map/ms-gun-laws/
There is no license required to purchase a weapon, so I'm not sure why we're talking about "age of license" which is typically used for things like drivers licenses. In MS, open carry is allowed at 18 without a license or permit.

CS1983
10-08-2019, 20:41
License = permission, simply. A driver’s license = permission to drive.

A license is not related to a right. Hence, things that encroach upon rights by the envelopment of license are, in fact, a nullification of said right.

As I wrote on the Oklahoma shooter’s forum regarding the SCOTUS and the issue of the constitutionality of gun laws: I don’t need 9 dipshits to tell me if I can protect my family. The same goes for any schmuck who would deign to legislate in the same.

Gman
10-09-2019, 09:20
License = permission, simply. A driver’s license = permission to drive.

A license is not related to a right. Hence, things that encroach upon rights by the envelopment of license are, in fact, a nullification of said right.

As I wrote on the Oklahoma shooter’s forum regarding the SCOTUS and the issue of the constitutionality of gun laws: I don’t need 9 dipshits to tell me if I can protect my family. The same goes for any schmuck who would deign to legislate in the same.
In the case of protecting yourself and family, now you're talking about the natural right to self-preservation.

Martinjmpr
10-09-2019, 09:53
I think you're asking the wrong question. It is legal in CO for a 17 year old to own or possess a firearm but whether it is legal for an FFL to SELL a 17 year old a firearm is a different question, one that is regulated by the requirements imposed on the licensee (the FFL, not the buyer.)