View Full Version : Financial Institutions Involved in Gun Control
eddiememphis
11-16-2019, 12:02
A new bill would have financial institutions report on "suspicious or illegal financial activity related to firearms".
Link to bill
https://wexton.house.gov/sites/wexton.house.gov/files/Gun%20Violence%20Prevention%20Through%20Financial% 20Intelligence%20Act.pdf
Link to press release
https://wexton.house.gov/media/press-releases/rep-wexton-introduces-bill-bring-financial-intelligence-bear-fight-against-gun
Link to National Review detailing the bill
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/new-bill-would-get-financial-institutions-involved-in-gun-control/
This would allow a government database on firearm, ammunition and accessory purchases compiled by your bank and credit card companies.
Seems like a backdoor into starting a data base for sure. As written, it doesn't say much, but as the article implies, since there isn't a way for financial institutions to provide much info, it just opens a door to the government requiring more info sharing to get that info.
More ATMs at gun shops?
If you spend money at a gun store, for a gun, ammo, accessories, etc., how would the financial institution know anything other than the total charge? Since when does the credit card company get an itemized accounting of your total bill?
If someone were doing some kind of illegal activity, they're probably operating a cash business. They'd likely also not be buying firearms in any kind of volume through legal means.
= More leftist thinking that doesn't make logical sense.
Definitely none of this makes sense. The chances of this being used to actually prevent a crime, rather than filling in blanks after the fact are nill, in my opinion.
eddiememphis
11-16-2019, 16:51
Seems like a backdoor into starting a data base for sure. As written, it doesn't say much, but as the article implies, since they're isn't a way for financial institutions to provide much info, it just opens a door to the government requiring more info sharing to get that info.
Exactly.
"If FinCEN determines that the data collected is insufficient, they must submit a report to Congress detailing the process and identifying barriers to data collection. " From the press release.
When it shows there is not enough information available to define the red flags indicating whatever they are looking for, they will simply request a change in the information gathering. I can see a couple of changes. Either your credit card will have a receipt attached breaking down every charge, or the the stores will be required to submit information on sales of UPC or SKU numbers. Every sale of a box of CCI Stingers will be recorded, (which it likely already is for inventory purposes) and sent to the database along with the card used for the transaction.
If you buy 2500 rounds you can then be flagged as a terrorist or whatever. It is also a great indicator of who owns guns that are not registered.
But there is no Federal registration system, you say?
Just wait.
It is also a way to curb sales by putting pressure on banks and lenders to not allow their customers to buy guns and ammo. Either refuse to pay for the item or put an extra charge for handling the transaction due to whatever nonsense their lawyers can dream up. Consumers are not required to enter into an agreement with a bank, it's a voluntary arrangement.
Oh, one more thing. By sharing the information with your health, life and homeowner's insurance, your premiums will be adjusted accordingly.
eddiememphis
11-16-2019, 16:53
Definitely none of this makes sense. The chances of this being used to actually prevent a crime, rather than filling in blanks after the fact are nill, in my opinion.
It's only superficially about crime or safety. It's about control and eventually stopping all private firearm ownership in the country.
Just wait until they start trying to pressure people into not using cash too... which will happen, one way or the other, eventually.
5 years, 25? Who knows.
Things like the existing reporting requirements for depository institutions (Depositing $3,000 and $10,000 IIRC) but instead, imagine automated reporting for withdrawing > $19.99 in cash, from a bank, ATM, or debit.
In the field of government control, cash is a HUGE loophole, it's just a matter of time.....
Great-Kazoo
11-16-2019, 21:11
Seems like a backdoor into starting a data base for sure. As written, it doesn't say much, but as the article implies, since there isn't a way for financial institutions to provide much info, it just opens a door to the government requiring more info sharing to get that info.
More ATMs at gun shops?
No, More cash transactions. As in walk in with cash, walk out with products. Honestly, anyone who doesn't have pvc, waterproofed tubes buried somewhere is foolish.
Just wait until they start trying to pressure people into not using cash too... which will happen, one way or the other, eventually.
5 years, 25? Who knows.
Things like the existing reporting requirements for depository institutions (Depositing $3,000 and $10,000 IIRC) but instead, imagine automated reporting for withdrawing > $19.99 in cash, from a bank, ATM, or debit.
In the field of government control, cash is a HUGE loophole, it's just a matter of time.....
Some restaurants tried to not accept cash, until they got sued.
No, More cash transactions. As in walk in with cash, walk out with products. Honestly, anyone who doesn't have pvc, waterproofed tubes buried somewhere is foolish.
I'd probably forget where I buried them. [Coffee]
Great-Kazoo
11-17-2019, 09:30
I'd probably forget where I buried them. [Coffee]
That's why you put some of those green fence post over them. With a sign the says WARNING: ITEMS BURIED HERE |
v
Aloha_Shooter
11-17-2019, 10:20
If you spend money at a gun store, for a gun, ammo, accessories, etc., how would the financial institution know anything other than the total charge? Since when does the credit card company get an itemized accounting of your total bill?
They don't need to know exactly what you bought. For the Leftists, the mere fact you patronized a gun store is sufficient for them to compile a list of suspects and addresses. They can simply apologize after ther aid if they don't find anything and let you deal with the breakage yourself. If they DO find something they want, they trundle you off to jail and declare success.
Zundfolge
11-17-2019, 11:26
This is why the future will be anonymous, crypto currency based credit cards (because eventually this will go way beyond guns ... eventually buying at unapproved businesses like Chick-Fil-A will get you on blacklists).
Yes, there's still the 4473 to contend with, but its not like private companies have access to those records ... yet.
This is why the future will be anonymous, crypto currency based credit cards (because eventually this will go way beyond guns ... eventually buying at unapproved businesses like Chick-Fil-A will get you on blacklists).
Yes, there's still the 4473 to contend with, but its not like private companies have access to those records ... yet.
If anything, using crypto currency will be about extracting as much tax revenue as possible. No one will give a crap about anything else.
Zundfolge
11-17-2019, 12:18
If anything, using crypto currency will be about extracting as much tax revenue as possible.
The point at which you convert Crypto into Fiat is when you'll take the tax hit. As long as you leave it Crypto it'll be hidden from the tax thieves.
The point at which you convert Crypto into Fiat is when you'll take the tax hit. As long as you leave it Crypto it'll be hidden from the tax thieves.
Or the second you buy anything with Crypto. Many crimes are actually solved the moment someone pays for something in e.g. bitcoin, cause the pesky thing about crypto is unlike cash, it keeps a ledger of all the transactions going forward. If they are tracking the money, and you spend it on ANYTHING intangible, the door is open to unwind the transaction right back to you.
I'd reasonably suspect the government is secretly involved in the development of a lot of crypto and ledgers for that reason...
...much like they are behind the creation, operation, and development of the tor network.
(which will come as a shock to a lot of people here) Yup, folks, the gov't funded somewhere between 85-95% of the development of Tor, and held weekly meetings with it's prime developers. Yup, we do that.
Fiat or not doesn't matter. The point I'm making is that if crypto is adopted as the official currency, then EVERY transaction is stored and known (unlike cash), so now you're paying taxes on all your garage sale purchases/sales and everything off of Craigslist.
Same thought, different perspectives. Cool. Widespread adoption of crypto would be devastating.
.01 bitcoin found in the bank account of a shooter? Well, they'll unwind everywhere that .01 came from.
Just imagine the civil forfeiture possibilities....
Gov't drools at the thought, revenue, control, and possibilities. Much like TOR, ironically privacy advocates do their best work for the gov't. [Beer]
wctriumph
11-17-2019, 12:54
It is why I prefer to trade and / or buy used. There is still the FFL transfer, except for C&R, which is getting easier as many modern firearms are 50 years old or more.
Some 40 years or so ago, I watched a congressman state that they were working hard on eliminating the illicit economy in the USA. He meant cash transactions.
eddiememphis
11-17-2019, 17:57
...There is still the FFL transfer...
Well... yeah.
I'm sure no one that leans Libertarian ever decides to omit that step.
CobaltSkink
11-17-2019, 20:15
Well... yeah.
I'm sure no one that leans Libertarian ever decides to omit that step.
Because, of course, [taps mike on Alexa] that would be WRONNNGGG.
Or the second you buy anything with Crypto. Many crimes are actually solved the moment someone pays for something in e.g. bitcoin, cause the pesky thing about crypto is unlike cash, it keeps a ledger of all the transactions going forward. If they are tracking the money, and you spend it on ANYTHING intangible, the door is open to unwind the transaction right back to you.
I'd reasonably suspect the government is secretly involved in the development of a lot of crypto and ledgers for that reason...
...much like they are behind the creation, operation, and development of the tor network.
(which will come as a shock to a lot of people here) Yup, folks, the gov't funded somewhere between 85-95% of the development of Tor, and held weekly meetings with it's prime developers. Yup, we do that.
There are at least two mainstream cryptocurrencies designed to avoid the problem with tracking in the way that bitcoins can be tracked based on wallet numbers (oh, by the way, there are ways to deal with that, too.)
Off the top of my head, both Monero and ZCash are designed with that issue in mind.
sellersm
11-20-2019, 11:02
Who is John Galt?
Why are we cross posting the same news in multiple threads?
eddiememphis
11-20-2019, 17:19
Why are we cross posting the same news in multiple threads?
Operator error
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