View Full Version : When to call it quits on a vehicle..
So... I have a 2006 Dodge Dakota that I bought used, had been previously owned by a small town maintenance dept in Southern Colorado. Had clutch rebuilt a year ago November, paid somewhere around $1800. This past August the clutch went again, the repair shop said that the pilot bearing sleeve was shot and that a replacement part wasn't available so they had a machine shop make a new sleeve, repair was around $1800. End of November had a vibration in the front, thought it was a wheel bearing as I had one replaced before under similar circumstances about a year and a half ago, at that time they notified me that my front suspension was shot and needed ball joints, tie rod ends, bushings and so on, I skipped on those repairs for the time being, well the shop this time says that the suspension parts are the source of the vibration so I rebuild the front end, another $2800. Now this week my clutch goes again, this time it's the slave cylinder. They get it in the shop and confirm the slave cylinder in their words destroyed itself and let shards of plastic and metal go in the transmission housing, guy says he fished most of it out via a magnet but recommended pulling the transmission to get the rest of the pieces. Well they pull the transmission and are telling my that the pilot bearing sleeve is shot as well as I need the clutch rebuilt again as well as u-joints.. price right now is $1300 just to get it put back together with a new slave cylinder with no other work just to get it on the road.
Problem is my payoff balance is $3100..
At what point do you walk away?
I have $4600 in it from the last 4 months, need to put another $1300 in to it just to get it back to driving condition for who knows how long, I'm guessing the shop wants another $2800 to do everything they say it needs.
Do I just say fuck it, pay off the $3100 which puts me at $7700 in to the thing and just walk away and get a new truck? Or suck it up, spend the additional $2800 or whatever and hope I get another 6 months out of it?
Martinjmpr
12-19-2019, 15:24
That's a tough call but I'd vote for "stop throwing good money after bad." Pay off the loan and see if you can sell what's left for parts. From its history it seems that this thing is only going to cost you more money the longer you keep it.
In the past when I've had to finance an older vehicle, I've always tried to pay them off as quickly as possible, especially if they were older, so I would never find myself in the situation you're in: Owing money on a vehicle that needs costly repairs.
And next time you buy a vehicle - see if you can pay cash and have no payment.
It isn?t any of my business but how are you still making payments on a fourteen year old vehicle?
It isn?t any of my business but how are you still making payments on a fourteen year old vehicle?
Bought it used, I've had it a couple years, have 1 year left on loan. I also had shitty credit at the time I purchased due to the housing crash in '08 so interest rate sucked.
I think you need a new mechanic.
I think you need a new mechanic.
4 different mechanics.. I've lived in Boulder for 19 years and have yet to find a mechanic I trust.. Then again my other vehicle 2002 Jeep Wrangler has only had to go in the shop once in which I took it to the dealer. This truck is turning in to a money pit. ANyone know of a good shop in Boulder?
Bailey Guns
12-19-2019, 15:57
Ouch... That's a tough situation to be in.
The $1300 repair bill is a bit under half the payoff. If it were me I'd forego the repairs and pay it off. Then sell it for whatever I could get out of it. I certainly wouldn't put any more money into it at this point considering it's not even worth the payoff amount. If you put another $1300 in it you still owe $3100. I don't see how that would help the situation at all.
4 different mechanics.. I've lived in Boulder for 19 years and have yet to find a mechanic I trust.
Mountain Auto Repair in NoBo has been good for us on the F-150 over many years. If you had a Toyota, Charlies would be the hands-down choice.
henpecked
12-19-2019, 16:54
AutoWrench used to be in boulder, now they are in southwest Longmont.
201 Price Rd, Longmont, CO 80501
Hours:
Open ⋅ Closes 5PM
Phone: (303) 443-8779
I can tell you that Dave is a honest mechanic. The reviews online also say that.
He is usually 2 weeks out before he can even look at a vehicle.
Martinjmpr
12-19-2019, 17:44
4 different mechanics.. I've lived in Boulder for 19 years and have yet to find a mechanic I trust.. Then again my other vehicle 2002 Jeep Wrangler has only had to go in the shop once in which I took it to the dealer. This truck is turning in to a money pit. ANyone know of a good shop in Boulder?
Wait, you have another vehicle? Then definitely dump that lemon and be done with it. Save your $$ for something better and drive the Jeep in the meantime.
Wait, you have another vehicle? Then definitely dump that lemon and be done with it. Save your $$ for something better and drive the Jeep in the meantime.
Yeah, I'm an electrical contractor and the Dodge is my business/work truck loaded up with my tools and equipment.. The Jeep is my personal vehicle which has been paid off off years, don't want to load it up with all my stuff though. Either way I'm leaning towards walking away from the Dodge.
SouthPaw
12-19-2019, 18:01
As my old boss used to say:
"At the end of the month, you are either going to have a maintenance bill or a car payment; pick whichever is cheaper."
Sounds like you have both right now so I would say it's time to retire it. For $5000+/-, you can easily find a reliable vehicle that will take you anywhere with little to no maintenance.
Except it sounds like he needs a truck for work maybe. Good luck finding a reliable pickup for $5K.
^ this.
I had very difficult time finding a 5-10 year old pickup for 5000. Then I was looking for a 2000 van. I quit and got a taco.
Can find minivans under 10k no problem.
SouthPaw
12-19-2019, 20:23
^ this.
I had very difficult time finding a 5-10 year old pickup for 5000. Then I was looking for a 2000 van. I quit and got a taco.
He said reliable, not newer. There is plenty of mid 2000 4x4 trucks on the market for around $5k; even more for $7k. Just yesterday there was a 2001 Tacoma X-Cab 4x4 TRD 5 speed with 128k, one owner for $3800. Of course it sold almost instantly but good deals can be had. You have to have cash ready and be ready to leave the second you spot it.
newracer
12-20-2019, 09:54
I'd fix it myself enough to get it running and sell it.
Martinjmpr
12-20-2019, 09:59
If you don't need 4wd and a compact truck will work you can get a used Ranger or B-series Mazda pretty cheap. I paid $2k for a 1996 Mazda B2300 in 2013. 4 cyl, 5 speed, 2wd. Ran like a champ and got ~25mpg on a regular basis. Literally the only money I put into it was new tires (about $400), a repair on the rear axle seal (about $100) and a new stereo (about $150, I installed it myself with a kit from Crutchfield.) Drove it for 3 years and sold it in 2016 for $2000 so basically I drove it for 3 years for free. That generation of Ranger was pretty simple (at least the 2wd ones were.) The Mazda even had working air conditioning and since it was a regular cab, even on the hottest days it would get ice cold inside the cab in just a few minutes.
I sometimes wish I'd kept it but with just a 10 mile (one way) commute, I realized that the cost of maintaining, insuring, and registering a 2nd vehicle was greater than any savings I'd get, even considering that my Suburban only got 11 MPG in the city.
Great little truck, though, and surprisingly fun to drive.
79711
That's a tough call but I'd vote for "stop throwing good money after bad." Pay off the loan and see if you can sell what's left for parts. From its history it seems that this thing is only going to cost you more money the longer you keep it.
In the past when I've had to finance an older vehicle, I've always tried to pay them off as quickly as possible, especially if they were older, so I would never find myself in the situation you're in: Owing money on a vehicle that needs costly repairs.
And next time you buy a vehicle - see if you can pay cash and have no payment.
The last sentence of this post is the most important in this entire thread. Car payments serve only to make the entity lending the money a profit on your dime. There's reason why people who are financially independent don't drive new cars as they're building their wealth.
Save, pay cash, save more, buy a little better with cash when you can afford it and need to. I see stories all the time of people with aging cars that need large repairs and still owe boat loads of money on them and I cringe. They don't think of what could (and likely will) happen down the road and only want that instant gratification of a new (even if just new to you) car. They do all sorts of mental gymnastics to figure out how to get the monthly payment to fit their income and this is the absolute wrong way to go about vehicle purchasing and why sales people work so hard to get you focused only on the monthly number... it's how they make the most profit. Who do you think pays for that profit?
Don't worry about "rebuilding" your damaged credit either. Better credit only allows you to make larger foolish decisions. Never finance a depreciating liability. The goal is to get to the point where you don't need credit anyway so who cares what your credit score is? I sure don't and haven't since about the same yours took a hit from what you've said. I was doing things all wrong and was "investing" on real estate and other things I was duped into thinking was a good idea. I "needed" good credit so I could finance a dozen properties and then make profit on them later so the amount I paid to the banks in interest didn't matter, right? Boy was I wrong.
Lending institutions have successfully convinced society that it's just the thing to do: get a credit card, get a car payment, get other debts including a mortgage and then live paycheck to paycheck barely getting buy to give them a massive chunk of our income to borrow against depreciating liabilities. What a scam and it's the reason everyone is so far in debt in this country. Sadly, our economy would topple w/o the reckless and blind spending though since we don't actually produce anything but that's a conversation for another topic.
If it were me I'd do whatever it took to pay that loan off and narrow it down to one vehicle for everything. Sell it for scrap, part it out and possibly sell the other vehicle too. The goal is to pay off the loan and then have some cash to buy whatever will get you buy for ALL of your needs right now. Notice I didn't say "Put a down payment on a new mistake" I said to buy. This is a rare concept these days since so many want to "finance" and then pretend it's buying.
You may not be taking what I'm saying as constructive criticism and might think me a prick with the things I say but you aren't in a position to be owning two vehicles. That's just doubling down on the depreciation and loss you're realizing over the years.
I say all of this not to pick on you or single you out but sometimes in life we need someone willing to tell us what we need to hear instead of what we want to hear. I really do wish someone had told me many years ago this same stuff which I, too, had to learn the hard way. My god what I would have done differently in terms of financial decisions armed with the knowledge of the subject I have now.
Great-Kazoo
12-20-2019, 15:22
Can find minivans under 10k no problem.
Of course you can, but like everything else under $5K the mileage is usually over 150K easy. Based on the OP's mechanical problems, i doubt he want's to invest in another possible money pit
Although I am not heavily investing these days, I would finance over cash purchase right now.
I usually do cash on vehicles, but at this rate (which is lower than inflation or most of price indicies), I will lease/finance and use the money on investment or expand.
Of course you can, but like everything else under $5K the mileage is usually over 150K easy. Based on the OP's mechanical problems, i doubt he want's to invest in another possible money pit
Family member just got a 2014 Caravan with under 90k for $7,500. From a dealership.
But...but...but...
...it's a "minivan".
Although I am not heavily investing these days, I would finance over cash purchase right now.
I usually do cash on vehicles, but at this rate (which is lower than inflation or most of price indicies), I will lease/finance and use the money on investment or expand.
No way. I don't care if the interest rate is 0%... I'm not leveraging myself to drop the cash on the market just so I can finance something I shouldn't be buying in the first place. If/when it topples you'll have monthly payments and no liquidity. Satisfy all debt first and then invest like crazy with confidence that no matter what the market does you're safe w/o any payments or loans.
Minivans have short comings for sure. I'm impressed how will mine has held up so far. It's got 241,XXX miles. I've never owned a vehicle that ran this long.
Great-Kazoo
12-20-2019, 18:38
But...but...but...
...it's a "minivan".
Hey our's is an urban assault transport, for seniors.
Minivans have short comings for sure. I'm impressed how will mine has held up so far. It's got 241,XXX miles. I've never owned a vehicle that ran this long.
That's because you haven't had to wrench on it yet ;)
No way. I don't care if the interest rate is 0%... I'm not leveraging myself to drop the cash on the market just so I can finance something I shouldn't be buying in the first place. If/when it topples you'll have monthly payments and no liquidity. Satisfy all debt first and then invest like crazy with confidence that no matter what the market does you're safe w/o any payments or loans.
No worries. Smart money isn't selling their farm/ranch for a vehicles NOR securities.
I am not active in investment as much because it is near high as it can be.
SideShow Bob
12-20-2019, 19:05
Minivans have short comings for sure. I'm impressed how will mine has held up so far. It's got 241,XXX miles. I've never owned a vehicle that ran this long.
I had. Pinto bought used with 98 K miles on it and drove it until it bust into flames and burned up at 268 K miles.....
P.S. Not from getting rear ended, it used/ leaked about a quart of oil every other fill up, oil got onto the exhaust manifold & burst into flames and burnt up all the plastics & wiring under the hood.
SideShow Bob
12-20-2019, 19:18
Early this spring, I picked up a 2007 Chevy Cobalt with under 35 K miles on it for $5,000. Very straight body and good interior. It is my daily commuter and averaging 28 - 32 MPG depending on traffic and my attitude. The Odo just turned over 39K. Today.
Hey our's is an urban assault transport, for seniors.
That's because you haven't had to wrench on it yet ;)
I just pulled a code last night and cylinder 6 had a misfire. I thought it was getting old (it is), but I get over been driving around like that for a few months. Pulling trailer full of stuff for hundreds of miles, etc. The ignition coil pulled itself apart some how. Anyway, can't believe how reliable the motor has been, even only on five cylinders.
SouthPaw
12-20-2019, 21:11
If $5000 is your budget, I?d be looking for the following 4x4?s:
Trucks:
2000-2006 Tundra
1995.5-2004 Tacoma
Anything with less than 200k would be a good buy if it?s in decent shape. These trucks run well over 300k with no issues so don?t let ?higher? miles scare you. My first gen tundra has 177k on the clock and it runs/drives like new.
1999-2006 Silverado/Sierra 1500 V8 (4.8 or 5.3).
For $5000, this should put you in the 150k+/- mileage range. These trucks are super easy to work on and the LS series engines are bullet proof. Parts are plentiful and cheap.
SUV?s:
1999-2006 Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban 5.3L
1997-2003 Toyota 4Runner
1997-2000ish Mercury/Ford Mountaineer/Explorer 5.0L with selectable transfer case if possible. If it?s AWD, it?s pretty easy to convert to selectable.
FWIW, I’ve been finding a lot more deals on Facebook vs craigslist. I’d keep an eye on FB if you are in the market.
SideShow Bob
12-21-2019, 00:38
If $5000 is your budget, I?d be looking for the following 4x4?s:
Trucks:
2000-2006 Tundra
1995.5-2004 Tacoma
Anything with less than 200k would be a good buy if it?s in decent shape. These trucks run well over 300k with no issues so don?t let ?higher? miles scare you. My first gen tundra has 177k on the clock and it runs/drives like new.
1999-2006 Silverado/Sierra 1500 V8 (4.8 or 5.3).
For $5000, this should put you in the 150k+/- mileage range. These trucks are super easy to work on and the LS series engines are bullet proof. Parts are plentiful and cheap.
SUV?s:
1999-2006 Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban 5.3L
1997-2003 Toyota 4Runner
1997-2000ish Mercury/Ford Mountaineer/Explorer 5.0L with selectable transfer case if possible. If it?s AWD, it?s pretty easy to convert to selectable.
FWIW, I’ve been finding a lot more deals on Facebook vs craigslist. I’d keep an eye on FB if you are in the market.
In the 1999 to 2006 Chevy/GMC 1500s you are going to get a high rate of electrical/electronic gremlins especially in the airbag sensors & wiring and in the electric sensors & wiring for the 4x4 systems.
I have personal experience with all of these issues with a 2006 GMC, that I have had since new, with just over 75K on it. I have a permanent air bag issue, from codes saying a bad front sensor to code saying that my airbags deployed. The dealer never could solve the problem and when the warranty was up, wanted $$$$ to keep trying to find the problem. So I now have a airbag warning light on all the time.
I have also had the transfer case selector switch go bad twice and the transfer case position sensor and selector motor go bad, all after the warranty was up. I have replaced these myself,
And I have had a blower motor issue to the tune of $400+ that was not covered by a recall because the VIN wasn’t in the recall range, even though it was displaying the exact same symptoms.
SouthPaw
12-21-2019, 01:23
In the 1999 to 2006 Chevy/GMC 1500s you are going to get a high rate of electrical/electronic gremlins especially in the airbag sensors & wiring and in the electric sensors & wiring for the 4x4 systems.
I have personal experience with all of these issues with a 2006 GMC, that I have had since new, with just over 75K on it. I have a permanent air bag issue, from codes saying a bad front sensor to code saying that my airbags deployed. The dealer never could solve the problem and when the warranty was up, wanted $$$$ to keep trying to find the problem. So I now have a airbag warning light on all the time.
I have also had the transfer case selector switch go bad twice and the transfer case position sensor and selector motor go bad, all after the warranty was up. I have replaced these myself,
And I have had a blower motor issue to the tune of $400+ that was not covered by a recall because the VIN wasn’t in the recall range, even though it was displaying the exact same symptoms.
Sounds like you got a bad apple in the flavor of a lemon. In the three that I have owned, non of the issues you speak of. Maybe I just got lucky.
BPTactical
12-21-2019, 07:14
The problem Bob is "GM".
Jus sayin
Martinjmpr
12-21-2019, 10:21
Sounds like you got a bad apple in the flavor of a lemon. In the three that I have owned, non of the issues you speak of. Maybe I just got lucky.
Except for the weak 4L60 transmission my Suburban was solid. Most likely I killed the transmission by towing a 3500# trailer through the mountains multiple times. Other than that, no issues and my Suburban had every bell and whistle you could get except a sunroof and a DVD player (neither of which I wanted.) I think the GMT-800 trucks (1999 - 2007 pickups and 2000 - 2006 Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon were some of the best made trucks out there. If you can get a 2500 you avoid the problematic 4L60 in favor of the much more robust 4L80.
Parts are easy to get and reasonably inexpensive and they are surprisingly easy to work on.
I would avoid the early GMT-900 trucks as they had issues with the multi-displacement engine feature.
Sold my '04 Suburban for $5500 last month with 189k and a still-under-warranty transmission.
In the 1999 to 2006 Chevy/GMC 1500s you are going to get a high rate of electrical/electronic gremlins especially in the airbag sensors & wiring and in the electric sensors & wiring for the 4x4 systems.
I have personal experience with all of these issues with a 2006 GMC, that I have had since new, with just over 75K on it. I have a permanent air bag issue, from codes saying a bad front sensor to code saying that my airbags deployed. The dealer never could solve the problem and when the warranty was up, wanted $$$$ to keep trying to find the problem. So I now have a airbag warning light on all the time.
I have also had the transfer case selector switch go bad twice and the transfer case position sensor and selector motor go bad, all after the warranty was up. I have replaced these myself,
And I have had a blower motor issue to the tune of $400+ that was not covered by a recall because the VIN wasn?t in the recall range, even though it was displaying the exact same symptoms.
Truth. I had to get rid of my 2003 Tahoe due to these electrical gremlins. Was throwing intermittent ABS warnings that it wasn't functioning. Airbag warnings. Electrical accessories would quit working. A bunch of GMs of that era also had problems with the instrument clusters. It was a known issue and GM would replace the cluster panel at up to 7 years 70K miles. I had to have mine replaced.
The 5.3l engine is a bit low on power and doesn't get good mileage, but it's damn near bulletproof. I prefer my Hemi.
SouthPaw
12-21-2019, 11:45
Truth. I had to get rid of my 2003 Tahoe due to these electrical gremlins. Was throwing intermittent ABS warnings that it wasn't functioning. Airbag warnings. Electrical accessories would quit working. A bunch of GMs of that era also had problems with the instrument clusters. It was a known issue and GM would replace the cluster panel at up to 7 years 70K miles. I had to have mine replaced.
The 5.3l engine is a bit low on power and doesn't get good mileage, but it's damn near bulletproof. I prefer my Hemi.
Yes, the cluster was an issue on the GMT800 platform but you can have your OE one rebuilt, bulbs switched to LED and stepper motors replaced for $80-$100. I had all my of my trucks done because I was never a big fan of the mint green color.
https://i.postimg.cc/P53ssC6x/2-C9-BFCFD-5-FB0-46-E3-9-F59-2-BB2-DA0-E7259.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
The 5.3L can be a bit sluggish, even more so if you have a fan clutch. If you get a truck after 2003, they switched to electric fans which made a big difference. My Tahoe had fan clutch and the 1500 had electric fans. It was night and day difference when driving them.
The 4L60 was not built to handle much, especially towing. All three of mine lasted 150k+ and one had 220k when I sold it, all still shifting great. I rarely towed though. I think you nailed when you said towing up and down the mountains. The 4L80 on the other hand is a horse. It?s pretty much a direct replacement other than a few wires.
SideShow Bob
12-21-2019, 17:54
The warning light in the upper left of your instrument cluster is this the same one that is constantly on in my 2006 GMC Sierra 1500.
The 6.0L Vortec Max doesn’t lack for power, but it hurts the wallet at the gas pumps. And it does have the mechanical fan / clutch not an electric fan(s).
I bought a 2000 tundra pretty cheap a couple months ago, a V8 4x4 with 13x,000 on it. Could not be happier and they're surprisingly much more reasonable than tacos of the same vintage.
I am trying to understand how $1300 wouldn’t cover EVERYTHING associated with the clutch (Clutch, Pressure Plate, flywheel, slave cylinder, fluids, etc) in a manual transmission rebuild including labor. If the clutch is toast why on earth would you only replace one or two of those things when you have it all apart? Dropping the tranny and replace all of that stuff yourself isn’t rocket science either. If it was me I would have just replaced it all myself during an afternoon in my driveway.
I did less than 2 minutes of Google searching and found complete Clutch/Flywheel/Hydraulics kits for $350-$400. Another two minutes of searching found many text and video instructions on how to do the swap.
Looks like less than $500 in parts and some elbow grease and you are back in business.
^
You would not believe how many aerospace engineers asked me to help them on doing maintenance on their vehicles.
I guess fluid dynamics are easier for him than changing out fluids on his 991 911s.
I had to show an electrical engineer friend of mine how to change the oil on his motorcycle, so these things do happen.
ANyone know of a good shop in Boulder?
PM sent.
^
You would not believe how many aerospace engineers asked me to help them on doing maintenance on their vehicles.
I guess fluid dynamics are easier for him than changing out fluids on his 991 911s.
I had to show an electrical engineer friend of mine how to change the oil on his motorcycle, so these things do happen.
There are two types of engineers, those that have the knack, and those that went into it for money.
Oh, my friend is a brilliant EE. Has patents on CPU designs. Lives in Austin, TX and worked at AMD for about 20 years and now works for Apple.
Just the mechanical stuff that seems like common sense to me he wasn't sure about.
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