View Full Version : Another Active Shooter in Texas
KevDen2005
12-29-2019, 12:40
https://www.9news.com/article/news/nation-world/reports-a-shooting-at-a-texas-church-was-caught-on-live-stream/287-d3e39e8c-a6e4-4c9d-9be0-3e9d792a016d?fbclid=IwAR3uCscPsApv1m4aY13ypFmc4jeI khq5AiZFSUBU9d01KlZ7lw6Q9AdGM9o
Multiple people have been reported dead and another injured critically after a shooting at the West Freeway Church of Christ of Las Vegas Trail according to authorities. Police were responding to an active shooter situation early Sunday.
The shooting was apparently broadcast on the church's live stream.
Zundfolge
12-29-2019, 12:46
At this point looks like two dead, one being the gunman who was shot by an armed citizen.
GGWAG>BGWAG
https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-church-shooting-texas-injured-active
Looks like 2 fatal. Suspect transported after being shot by someone inside the church.
https://heavy.com/news/2019/12/church-of-christ-shooting/
hurley842002
12-29-2019, 12:54
That's my uncle's church, he was there but is okay.
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KevDen2005
12-29-2019, 12:57
At this point looks like two dead, one being the gunman who was shot by an armed citizen.
GGWAG>BGWAG
https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-church-shooting-texas-injured-active
So what you're saying is the good guy wins and this will end up not being in the news very long. 9 News and their "multiple people" dead comment. Terrible
That's my uncle's church, he was there but is okay.
That's good to hear.
Saw the video. GGWAG definitely saved lives.
Zundfolge
12-29-2019, 14:58
Here's the video. Looks like the one GG that died was drawing as he was shot. Reminds me I need to spend more time practicing draw. Very clean shot that brought down the BG.
https://streamable.com/m8sly
graphic video, but lots of important lessons here.
A lot of armed good guys and a good girl in that video.
Looks like the guy that put down the bad guy made a nice shot. Wasn?t overly close to the guy and dropped him with one shot. Kudos.
Zundfolge
12-29-2019, 15:35
Looks like the guy that put down the bad guy made a nice shot. Wasn?t overly close to the guy and dropped him with one shot. Kudos.
According to some sources, he's retired FBI.
But you watch the video you can really see him struggle on his draw. Again the huge lesson here is to make practice of presentation a much higher priority.
hurley842002
12-29-2019, 16:07
According to some sources, he's retired FBI.
But you watch the video you can really see him struggle on his draw. Again the huge lesson here is to make practice of presentation a much higher priority.
Never will be a shortage of Monday morning quarterbacks.
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BushMasterBoy
12-29-2019, 16:18
And this is why I don't go to church. The video link is gone. I am an island.
It's here for now: https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=a7Egb_1577654583
Zundfolge
12-29-2019, 16:38
Never will be a shortage of Monday morning quarterbacks.
Right, we should never study these kind of things and try to learn from them lest we be accused of "Monday morning quarterbacking". Clearly people's fee-fees are much more important than maybe saving lives down the road.
eddiememphis
12-29-2019, 16:39
One church member- ""We have to understand that this poor man, I don't know what his mental state was, but my heart goes out to his family, because they have to live with this," he said."
Makes more sense than the people already shouting "BAN THEM!!!".
I like to go to Slate and read the comments. Some people have serious problems with religion. And of course the guys saying gun laws would have prevented this, before knowing the bad guy and his motivation. Seems pretty shallow.
I find it amazing that someone wielding a shotgun didn't create more carnage. RIP to the church-goer that was killed and good shooting from the individual that dropped the attacker.
spqrzilla
12-29-2019, 16:58
It looks like the shooter was confronted by several people at the start of the video. Since we cannot hear what's being said, it is difficult to intelligently comment but the first guy shot is in the middle of his draw. Forced to start drawing while being focused by shooter is starting at a huge disadvantage. I don't see the guy who put the shooter down have trouble with his draw, he is obscured at beginning but my impression is that his attention is not on the shooter at start.
Looks like a short pump shotgun to me.
Bailey Guns
12-29-2019, 17:56
Not the fastest draw but it didn't look that bad to me under the circumstances. Not to mention he took care of the problem quickly, with one shot, and no collateral damage. As far as I'm concerned...
NICE WORK!
Great-Kazoo
12-29-2019, 17:59
One church member- ""We have to understand that this poor man, I don't know what his mental state was, but my heart goes out to his family, because they have to live with this," he said."
Makes more sense than the people already shouting "BAN THEM!!!".
I like to go to Slate and read the comments. Some people have serious problems with religion. And of course the guys saying gun laws would have prevented this, before knowing the bad guy and his motivation. Seems pretty shallow.
Forget slate. Go to any media site and read the comments. The most common one is Why do people feel the need to carry a gun in church? Completely ignoring what happened and how they were stopped.
eddiememphis
12-29-2019, 18:14
Forget slate. Go to any media site and read the comments. The most common one is Why do people feel the need to carry a gun in church? Completely ignoring what happened and how they were stopped.
Agreed. I go to Slate because it doesn't hide its bias.
It also doesn't have a paywall or tell me I am not welcome because of my adblocker like many "news" outlets- including the Denver Post.
hurley842002
12-29-2019, 19:39
Right, we should never study these kind of things and try to learn from them lest we be accused of "Monday morning quarterbacking". Clearly people's fee-fees are much more important than maybe saving lives down the road.
Dang Zund you got me, my "fee-fees" are super hurt, guess I'll go curl up, while you practice quick draw.
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.455_Hunter
12-29-2019, 20:22
That's my uncle's church, he was there but is okay.
I am very glad to hear that. I hope he is doing as well as can be expected.
thedave1164
12-29-2019, 21:18
I am always carrying at church, after the synagogue incident yesterday I was rolling heavy today.
Kudos to all those prepared to do the unthinkable
Zundfolge
12-29-2019, 21:45
Colion Noir's take on it was pretty good ... good concise video to share about the situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V5XILF0d7U
DenverGP
12-29-2019, 23:08
The shooter wasn't very "active".... He was killed 5 seconds after pulling his shotgun.
hollohas
12-29-2019, 23:14
This shows how fast this can all happen. Time from 1st shot to the last. Less than 3 seconds.
Good guy did a great job.
It definitely makes me want to work on my draw more. And to maybe reconsider my carry method as an usher in church.
It also brings to my attention some of the personal defense trainers out there that say you aren't going to win if you have to draw when the bad guy already has a gun out, particularly at close distance. There's obviously a lot of truth to that.
.455_Hunter
12-29-2019, 23:46
This shows how fast this can all happen. Time from 1st shot to the last. Less than 3 seconds.
Good guy did a great job.
It definitely makes me want to work on my draw more. And to maybe reconsider my carry method as an usher in church.
It also brings to my attention some of the personal defense trainers out there that say you aren't going to win if you have to draw when the bad guy already has a gun out, particularly at close distance. There's obviously a lot of truth to that.
It also brings to attention that precision extended range shooting may be necessary in a defensive scenario- 3-3-3 doesn't cut it all of the time.
Bailey Guns
12-30-2019, 07:03
Britt Farmer, the church's senior minister, told the Dallas Morning News that the church lost two "great men today, but it could have been a lot worse, and I am thankful our government has allowed us the opportunity to protect ourselves."
It's remarkably difficult to further the cause when people still think like this.
nice work by the good guy. May this be a warning to bad guys every where that many churches are no longer soft targets.
http://youtu.be/cuOEv1jCivg
Zundfolge
12-30-2019, 19:45
Info on the shooter.
https://heavy.com/news/2019/12/keith-thomas-kinnunen/
Trump Tweet, acknowledging the advantage of having locally armed people.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1211813523581546496
-John
eddiememphis
12-30-2019, 21:50
"Kinnunen’s sister, Amy Kinnunen, said Sunday was the 10th anniversary of the death of their brother by suicide, according to ABC News. She told the news network she believes Kinnunen was on his own suicide mission."
“Keith is a violent, paranoid person with a long line of assault and batteries with and without firearms. He is a religious fanatic, says he’s battling a demon. He is not nice to anyone,” his ex-wife wrote in the documents, according to the news station.
On and on. The poor guy was a nut. Arrested many times and let go free. Instead of being committed to a mental hospital, he was let out of custody.
The left wants to blame guns. The right wants to cite personal responsibility.
When someone has a legitimate history of mental illness, who can step in to prevent him from bringing a gun into a church on the date his brother killed himself?
The family. They should have stepped in, and or been more active, in the situation you describe.
Normal people, should recognize abnormalities, and intervene as required.
-John
There's only so much a family can do. He was an adult.
Family, friends, acquaintances, working along with law enforcement, should be able to limit the individual. If they prove uncontrollable, then prison, etc., is justified.
-John
Britt Farmer, the church's senior minister, told the Dallas Morning News that the church lost two "great men today, but it could have been a lot worse, and I am thankful our government has allowed us the opportunity to protect ourselves."
It's remarkably difficult to further the cause when people still think like this.
Exactly... who needs permission to carry. It's not governments right to restrict the 2nd
A Felon, needs permission to carry.
But, the argument also goes to, that normal people, good people, need to be able to carry, to protect themselves from the times when, family, friends, acquaintances, and law enforcement fail to control a troubled individual.
-John
The family. They should have stepped in, and or been more active, in the situation you describe.
Normal people, should recognize abnormalities, and intervene as required.
-John
This is what every person who has never had to deal with adult problems, says.
Family, friends, acquaintances, working along with law enforcement, should be able to limit the individual. If they prove uncontrollable, then prison, etc., is justified.
-John
Down right hilarious.
Rucker61
12-31-2019, 06:27
Exactly... who needs permission to carry. It's not governments right to restrict the 2nd
Church goers in Texas did, as it was prohibited by law until this last September.
Family, friends, acquaintances, working along with law enforcement, should be able to limit the individual. If they prove uncontrollable, then prison, etc., is justified.
-John
You can?t jail people for being crazy unless they?re guilty of a crime. This isn?t Germany and it?s not the 1930?s.
The family. They should have stepped in, and or been more active, in the situation you describe.
Normal people, should recognize abnormalities, and intervene as required.
-John
Once you realize that you have no control over the actions or behaviors of others you?ll scrap that idea. You can do your best to influence the behavior and actions of another person but ultimately you have no control over their actions.
Family is damned if they do, damned if they don't.
There is nothing they can do, for starters. If they do try to warn people, they'll get condemned for not supporting/helping their family, "blood is thicker than...." and all the other societal BS that is patently wrong.
Or if something like this happens, they get condemned for "not stopping it", as if they have a telepathic read on the mind of an asshole simply because they are related, and all the other societal BS that is patently wrong that goes with it.
In practice, people are just estranged until the news comes knocking and says "your dear brother...."
The reality is, our system is made for people like this. And by made for, I don't mean in a positive way. You're not going to fix the symptoms until you address deeper issues, and in this country, it's pretty much impossible.
You can?t jail people for being crazy unless they?re guilty of a crime. This isn?t Germany and it?s not the 1930?s.
If they’re truly crazy they’re not guilty anyway.
We used to have insane asylums. We still should.
BPTactical
12-31-2019, 09:37
Everybody is crazy.
It's merely the state of adjustment they are in on any given day that is of question.
One out of four people are mentally ill.
Think about your three closest friends.
If they seem perfectly normal then guess what?
You?re the one.
One out of four people are mentally ill.
Think about your three closest friends.
If they seem perfectly normal then guess what?
You?re the one.
Yep,
I talked with my 3 closest friends (Me, Myself and I) they think it’s Me and I’m thinking it’s her also.
You can't blame the family. Clearly, law enforcement knew about this whacko and either could not or would not do anything constructive. I would hate to be held accountable for the actions of my eldest sister (a full-on sociopath).
Bailey Guns
12-31-2019, 10:52
You can do your best to influence the behavior and actions of another person but ultimately you have no control over their actions.
You do when you shoot him in the head in your church...
Bailey Guns
12-31-2019, 11:04
You can't blame the family. Clearly, law enforcement knew about this whacko and either could not or would not do anything constructive. I would hate to be held accountable for the actions of my eldest sister (a full-on sociopath).
If you're referring to the court system as "law enforcement", I'd agree. Otherwise it sounds like the police did what they should've done several times. It's not their fault he was on the street. It sounds like police arrested him several times for some pretty serious crimes. What happens after that in "the system" isn't up to the police. The reality is there's not much that can be done about someone like this under our current system until they snap. What's really scary is there are lots of people just like this guy, or worse, that are among us. Not to mention those that aren't necessarily crazy but that are just truly evil...like gang members and such (MS-13, etc).
You do when you shoot him in the head in your church...
T-Zone shot to the face based on the interview with the deacon in charge of security. DRT.
If the police were able to get these people off the street, they'd likely reduce their workload by about 80%. They deal with the same scumbags over and over and over...
But it's not up to them.
BPTactical
12-31-2019, 13:14
You can't blame the family. Clearly, law enforcement knew about this whacko and either could not or would not do anything constructive. I would hate to be held accountable for the actions of my eldest sister (a full-on sociopath).
Pics of sister? (Asking for a friend)
Pics of sister? (Asking for a friend)
This doesn't really capture the level of toxicity...
https://bloody-disgusting.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/predator.jpg
spqrzilla
12-31-2019, 14:32
I dated her
SideShow Bob
12-31-2019, 14:53
I dated her
What ? You dated my ex ?
Now THAT is coyote ugly.....
Skywalker
12-31-2019, 19:07
That's a fact Jack!
You do when you shoot him in the head in your church...
encorehunter
12-31-2019, 20:34
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