View Full Version : Which LGS are more pro 2A?
rock_castle
04-02-2020, 09:04
I'm now on day number eight waiting for a CO background check for a firearm purchase. I understand that Federal law states a FFL can release the firearm after three days has passed, which obviously my FFL has chosen not to do. It got me wondering if there are CO FFL'S that are indeed releasing firearms after the third day. It seems to me that those FFL's are the ones that deserve my business. Does anyone know of a CO FFL that is releasing after three days? Thanks for your reply.
whitewalrus
04-02-2020, 09:08
I don?t think any will do this.
battlemidget
04-02-2020, 09:17
Maybe RMGO will file a lawsuit about this.
we all better send a check first. you know for operating expenses...
...like a new McLaren? [ROFL1]
SouthPaw
04-02-2020, 09:54
https://kdvr.com/news/coronavirus/colorado-gun-dealers-can-sell-firearms-without-completed-background-checks-due-to-states-massive-backlog/
battle_sight_zero
04-02-2020, 09:57
A unnamed gunstore did release a firearm to a prohibited person per CBI https://kdvr.com/news/coronavirus/colorado-gun-dealers-can-sell-firearms-without-completed-background-checks-due-to-states-massive-backlog/ . However the 2A friendly shops in my mind are the ones who sell mag kits and firearms with the gear that they came with unmodified. Not going to miss this nonsense in Colorado.
BPTactical
04-02-2020, 10:33
I'm now on day number eight waiting for a CO background check for a firearm purchase. I understand that Federal law states a FFL can release the firearm after three days has passed, which obviously my FFL has chosen not to do. It got me wondering if there are CO FFL'S that are indeed releasing firearms after the third day. It seems to me that those FFL's are the ones that deserve my business. Does anyone know of a CO FFL that is releasing after three days? Thanks for your reply.
Yes and No.
A FFL MAY transfer a firearm 3 days after receiving a "Delayed" response from NIC's.
MAY- the FFL is not bound to transferring the firearm after a Delayed response, it is up to the individual business. I have not seen it happen in years, I don't know of any shop owner who looks forward to getting their shit pushed in because they just had to transfer firearm to a "Delayed" individual.
The delays that we are seeing now ARE NOT "Delayed" NIC's responses, they are delays in processing the submissions. It could take 3 months to submit and process a BG and it has absolutely no bearing on the 3 day "Delayed" guidance to FFL's.
You have no choice but to hurry up and wait.
colorider
04-02-2020, 11:41
Guns For Everyone in Wheatridge is looking into it. He contacted his lawyers on Tuesday to research. Edgar the owner is 100% for letting the guns go after 3 days if his lawyers say do it. Follow them on IG and Facebook for details and updates.
What does "shall not be infringed" mean exactly?
I know, I know, whatever some liberal activist court says it is.
spqrzilla
04-02-2020, 11:51
There is a difference between something being legal and being prudent in today's litigation society. I wouldn't advise a store to release a firearm without a completed check. I don't think this is a test of 2A commitment.
Little Dutch
04-02-2020, 12:02
Most places try very hard to stay out of the news so are not going to turn over a pistol to an unknown without the CBI okaying the transfer.
Personally I think it should be mandatory. If their "insta check" system is broken it's their fault, not mine.
Yes and No.
A FFL MAY transfer a firearm 3 days after receiving a "Delayed" response from NIC's.
MAY- the FFL is not bound to transferring the firearm after a Delayed response, it is up to the individual business. I have not seen it happen in years, I don't know of any shop owner who looks forward to getting their shit pushed in because they just had to transfer firearm to a "Delayed" individual.
The delays that we are seeing now ARE NOT "Delayed" NIC's responses, they are delays in processing the submissions. It could take 3 months to submit and process a BG and it has absolutely no bearing on the 3 day "Delayed" guidance to FFL's.
You have no choice but to hurry up and wait.
^ this .
I remember when I ran 4473, it was that delay guidance they were talking about.
Therefore the news article and democrats are damn wrong about the loophole.
"Some officials running for office, including former Gov. John Hickenlooper, have called on Congress to close this regulation.
Background checks save lives. The House of Representatives voted to close the Charleston Loophole last year—why won't the Senate act? https://t.co/xoNoRxaZUO
— John Hickenlooper (@Hickenlooper) March 31, 2020"
FFS, more lies.
To the OP, doubt you're going to find one willing to go that route with any unknown patron. Perhaps one that you have entrusted your business to already for some time and are well known to the proprietor, but it's their ass on the line regardless.
I think Bert also nailed it, since the dealer isn't receiving a "delayed" response. The real issue is, IMHO, the unconstitutional actions of CBI getting in the middle of the gun buyer and the NICS. If they want to prevent prohibited persons, which by their definition includes those with state and local level TRO and domestic abuse convictions, then do a better and accurate job of reporting and consolidating (and purging when cleared) that data to NICS and GTFO of the way.
If our overlords insist on using NICS, every citizen, not just ffls, should be able to use it for transferring of firearms between private parties.
No need for silly forms and tracking serial numbers.
Hell I would be for removing all serial numbers from guns. Government has no right to track goods purchased by its citizens.
That would present warranty and insurance issues.
BPTactical
04-02-2020, 16:28
Guns For Everyone in Wheatridge is looking into it. He contacted his lawyers on Tuesday to research. Edgar the owner is 100% for letting the guns go after 3 days if his lawyers say do it. Follow them on IG and Facebook for details and updates.
If Edgars lawyers say it is ok his lawyers are idiots and if Edgar goes ahead and does it he is an idiot too.
There is a difference between something being legal and being prudent in today's litigation society. I wouldn't advise a store to release a firearm without a completed check. I don't think this is a test of 2A commitment.
Agreed 100%. Most are not going to risk taking that step, I wouldn't.
Does anyone know of a CO FFL that is releasing after three days? Thanks for your reply.
No.
Shoot some of your other guns and this one will be along when it gets along. You've been on here for six years which would tend to make a person think you may have a gun by now, go shoot that one. We are in a time of panic buying and anyone with any sense would understand that 'getting it quick' isn't happening right now.
It’s much simpler: if someone cannot have a gun they should be in a mental institution or on death row. If someone cannot be trusted with a tool for self defense they cannot be trusted in society. The system is broken.
It?s much simpler: if someone cannot have a gun they should be in a mental institution or on death row. If someone cannot be trusted with a tool for self defense they cannot be trusted in society. The system is broken.
I tend to look at it a bit differently but only a shade.
If we sentence someone to jail, they are supposed to be repaying their debt to society or doing pennance. Once their debt is paid they should be allowed to resume a free life. If this is not the case, then one mistake and offenders are basically forfitting their life, almost like they get the scarlet letter.
kidicarus13
04-02-2020, 18:51
If Edgars lawyers say it is ok his lawyers are idiots and if Edgar goes ahead and does it he is an idiot too.Some are more risk adverse than others. ITAR
BPTactical
04-02-2020, 19:14
Some are more risk adverse than others. ITAR
Some are smart enough not to expose themselves to unnecessary risk. DDTC
And its averse, not adverse.
Only the retarded are buying guns right now.. lol
Yeah, I know it's politically incorrect.. but it's true.
I'm to young to know, but how was getting a gun prior to Brady?
I've heard mail order to your door.
Why cant we go back to that?
We all know background checks stop no one from obtaining a gun if they want one.
DavieD55
04-02-2020, 19:31
Only the retarded are buying guns right now.. lol
Yeah, I know it's politically incorrect.. but it's true.
That^ LOL
SideShow Bob
04-02-2020, 20:36
I'm to young to know, but how was getting a gun prior to Brady? Not much different.
I've heard mail order to your door. Firearms Act of 1968 put an end to that.
Why cant we go back to that? Dream on.....
We all know background checks stop no one from obtaining a gun if they want one. But if law abiding citizens don’t have guns, a criminal cannot steal them......
I tend to look at it a bit differently but only a shade.
If we sentence someone to jail, they are supposed to be repaying their debt to society or doing pennance. Once their debt is paid they should be allowed to resume a free life. If this is not the case, then one mistake and offenders are basically forfitting their life, almost like they get the scarlet letter.
Yes. That’s my point. If they’re not on death row (I find life sentences cruel and unusual, and basically the Russian literature of death row), or in a mental institution, they should not be excluded.
BPTactical
04-02-2020, 21:22
Yes. That’s my point. If they’re not on death row (I find life sentences cruel and unusual, and basically the Russian literature of death row), or in a mental institution, they should not be excluded.
Respectfully disagree.
I understand the RKBA. But after working in this industry for a long time I also understand the fact that there are plenty of individuals in our society who have no business possessing a firearm and if they did, I want to be well out of range.
buffalobo
04-02-2020, 22:07
There is a difference between something being legal and being prudent in today's litigation society. I wouldn't advise a store to release a firearm without a completed check. I don't think this is a test of 2A commitment.This^^^.
In this circumstance a business decision(good one IMO) not a look out for your rights decision.
Respectfully disagree.
I understand the RKBA. But after working in this industry for a long time I also understand the fact that there are plenty of individuals in our society who have no business possessing a firearm and if they did, I want to be well out of range.
Sadly, yes to this. The primary issue is those who probably should be on a penal colony are in fact often your neighbors, etc. There's way, way too much pond scum, and prison was built for profit, not for pond scum.
Great-Kazoo
04-03-2020, 00:17
Some are smart enough not to expose themselves to unnecessary risk. DDTC
And its averse, not adverse.
Sage advise ;)
Great-Kazoo
04-03-2020, 00:25
Yes. That’s my point. If they’re not on death row (I find life sentences cruel and unusual, and basically the Russian literature of death row), or in a mental institution, they should not be excluded.
The problem with that is. Most of the on parole and or early release felons, played the parole system, like a fiddle. They claim they found jesus, saw the light and "only want to return to society". Knowing they made a mistake and looking forward to getting back to their family and society.
The parole board looks at the over crowding, available funding etc and says. Why not take a change with this model prisoner.
6 months later, if that in some cases. They're in a line up accused of stabbing someone to death. or one of the many other bad habits, society pushed them to.
I'm the victim. I mean all i wanted was her wallet. But no, she fought back, so i stabbed her, 17 times.
Some are smart enough not to expose themselves to unnecessary risk. DDTC
And its averse, not adverse.
Sage advise ;)
That's advice, not advise... [Flower][Coffee]
Just playing along, fellas...
The problem with that is. Most of the on parole and or early release felons, played the parole system, like a fiddle. They claim they found jesus, saw the light and "only want to return to society". Knowing they made a mistake and looking forward to getting back to their family and society.
The parole board looks at the over crowding, available funding etc and says. Why not take a change with this model prisoner.
6 months later, if that in some cases. They're in a line up accused of stabbing someone to death. or one of the many other bad habits, society pushed them to.
I'm the victim. I mean all i wanted was her wallet. But no, she fought back, so i stabbed her, 17 times.
Defending a systemic breakdown with a data point of said breakdown?
We either have rights or we don't. Sad to see so many here who don't actually believe we have rights. More like the 2nd suggestion I guess.
UrbanWolf
04-03-2020, 09:57
Only the retarded are buying guns right now.. lol
Yeah, I know it's politically incorrect.. but it's true.
+1
UrbanWolf
04-03-2020, 10:02
Respectfully disagree.
I understand the RKBA. But after working in this industry for a long time I also understand the fact that there are plenty of individuals in our society who have no business possessing a firearm and if they did, I want to be well out of range.
+1, pretty much anyone with half a brain and worked in in the industry for over 5 years has said the same. Being dumb is not illegal or considered mentally ill.
Respectfully disagree.
...there are plenty of individuals in our society who have no business possessing a firearm and if they did, I want to be well out of range.
Shannon Watts quote? Cite?
O2
Defending a systemic breakdown with a data point of said breakdown?
We either have rights or we don't. Sad to see so many here who don't actually believe we have rights. More like the 2nd suggestion I guess.
That's not how our government has ever worked. Like it or not, BOR has never been a light switch and it's been legally "infringed" since day one. Idealistically, we can argue how we have sacred unalienable rights, pragmatically, our rights have constantly been under revision, edited etc from the U.S. Supreme Court and federal appellate. "Right" or wrong, that is our flawed system of government. Personally, I usually avoid ideological positions and deal with pragmatic reality to have the most effect in the course of my life.
And even if we go back to the original conventions, imagine if you stood up and said "If a man stabs all of his neighbors in a gathering, rapes their wives, and is sent to prison, would it not infringe on his right to a firearm to deny him a weapon from within prison?" Proponents of arguments like that might have kept us from even having a 2nd amendment, it was heated to begin with.... even the idealists see limitations despite the "shall not be infringed", such as "lets not arm prisoners, shall we?". Nowhere in the B.O.R. does it explicitly deny rights to prisoners either...
So yeah, "shall not infringe" has never meant every man woman and child without exception.
ETA: Also note our judicial system neither has the capacity nor has ever operated to segregate dangerous people from society. Again, that's an idealized belief, not reality. It's mostly catch and release, at best.
BPTactical
04-03-2020, 10:45
Shannon Watts quote? Cite?
O2
Nope, I am capable of forming my own thoughts.
Work a retail shop long enough and there will plenty of times when you complete a transfer that you say to yourself "Man, I'm glad that guy doesn't live near me...."
thedave1164
04-03-2020, 10:51
I'm to young to know, but how was getting a gun prior to Brady?
I've heard mail order to your door.
Why cant we go back to that?
We all know background checks stop no one from obtaining a gun if they want one.
Actually for retail sales, you have not been able to have it mailed to your house since the 1968 GCA
Actually for retail sales, you have not been able to have it mailed to your house since the 1968 GCA
For all intents, yes, but not quite true. Just before Colorado enacted their BGC law, A UPS driver handed me my DCM Garand at my front door.
O2
Well I can still have a Polymer 80 mailed and spend less than an hour to remove a few bits of plastic, pin a rail and trigger and attach a slide.
I am 50/50 on this.
I mean innocent person getting 8 hours of heavy interrogation without an attorney and lied to official under duress is a felony.
Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols is also committed a felony. (Was for mcveigh).
Maybe they should make a legal classification and terms between misedermeanor and felony?
thedave1164
04-03-2020, 12:37
For all intents, yes, but not quite true. Just before Colorado enacted their BGC law, A UPS driver handed me my DCM Garand at my front door.
O2
CMP sales are not retail sales
For all intents, yes, but not quite true. Just before Colorado enacted their BGC law, A UPS driver handed me my DCM Garand at my front door.
O2
You can still have a CMP Garand sent to your door. You still go through a background check to get one.
Actually for retail sales, you have not been able to have it mailed to your house since the 1968 GCA
So you could go to walmart and pick up an AR 15 with no BGC until what year? 198X? Even select fire ARs?
That would be awesome.
thedave1164
04-03-2020, 13:29
So you could go to walmart and pick up an AR 15 with no BGC until what year? 198X? Even select fire ARs?
That would be awesome.
It depended on the state, CA for example had a waiting period for years before the NICS was enacted
Class III still had a $200 tax stamp since the NFA 1934
SideShow Bob
04-03-2020, 13:32
So you could go to walmart and pick up an AR 15 with no BGC until what year? 198X? Even select fire ARs?
That would be awesome.
The NFA of 1934 put the filing and obtaining a Tax stamp on full auto weapons.
Before the 1968 act, there was a very short form, not much more than a bill of sale & receipt that recorded serial number and who you were.
The 1986 act banned all new fully automatics from being sold to us common folk.
The NFA of 1934 put the filing and obtaining a Tax stamp on full auto weapons.
Before the 1968 act, there was a very short form, not much more than a bill of sale & receipt that recorded serial number and who you were.
The 1986 act banned all new fully automatics from being sold to us common folk.
That's a bit misleading.
1986 act closed the registry, creating a de facto ban by making select fire weapons too expensive for the plebes like us because new guns couldn't be added to the registry and it became a limited and potentially shrinking pool.
We're saying the same thing, but your statement could be misinterpreted as being a complete ban and making machine guns "illegal."
StagLefty
04-04-2020, 08:39
Actually for retail sales, you have not been able to have it mailed to your house since the 1968 GCA
Mail order trivia : I remember my Dad ordering rifles from magazine ads and the mailman walking up to the house with long boxes !!!
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