View Full Version : AR9 build or buy
So I have a Scorpion and have not had any issues to date but haven't shot it that much yet either. I like the AR platform though and have several and also several different caliber uppers. But I don't have one that will shoot 9mm. Was wondering what people that use and/or have a 9mm capable AR would recommend for someone like me that wants to have a Glock mag capable one. I wouldn't have an issue dedicating one of my lowers and putting in a different buffer and mag adapter if that is necessary to save on costs. Just want it to be reliable, not worried about LRHO either. Also not looking for the most expensive products or methods of getting one of these going. Thinking 8" or 10" barrel as I have read that longer will be slowing down the bullet before it even leaves the barrel. Now if that is not the case then a 16" would be my choice because of less noise when shot. Anybody have suggestions?
I built my own dedicated 9mm AR.
Used Joe Bob Outfitters Spartan upper n lower with a lot of Kaw Valley parts.
I had a scorpion, I liked it, but I wanted all my ARs and sub guns to all operate the same...so I went AR9 pistol and carbine.
I thinking you?ll be happy with the increased velocity from the longer barrel.
Been a long time, but a friend and I did a lot of experimenting years ago with 9mm velocities out of carbine length barrels. My memory is failing me but I think our goal was to hit 2000 fps out of a sixteen inch barrel. Honestly don?t remember if we hit it or not but I know we came real close with several loads using an 80 gr. bullet.
I have a bunch of 9mm Glock mags. Is it worth it to go the AR9 route when something like the Ruger PC Carbine (https://ruger.com/products/pcCarbine/models.html) is out there?
Yes. If you prefer the AR ergonomics and want to feel familiar with the controls and operation of the weapon.
I have the non-tacticool version of the PCC with the traditional fudd stock. I love it. But I also kind of like that it doesn?t look ?evil?.
I have the non-tacticool version of the PCC with the traditional fudd stock. I love it. But I also kind of like that it doesn?t look ?evil?.
I'm not stuck on a single manual of arms, so it's no biggie for me.
I like the idea of the Ruger PCC takedown models.
Yeah. Even my fudd looking model breaks down (and has a threaded barrel).
I actually bought a smallish carry bag for it and I bet I could walk around downtown Denver carrying that thing and nobody would be wise to the fact that it was a rifle.
I?ve seen quite a few videos recently of the pistol version of the PCC that just came out.
Okay but is anyone competing in PCC matches with a Ruger? If I get the opportunity to get into a match like that in the future I wanted to have something that would fit. I have a lot of Ruger stuff so not against Ruger.
Any idea how much that would run for the completed gun doing it the way you did?
I built my own dedicated 9mm AR.
Used Joe Bob Outfitters Spartan upper n lower with a lot of Kaw Valley parts.
I had a scorpion, I liked it, but I wanted all my ARs and sub guns to all operate the same...so I went AR9 pistol and carbine.
Sorry for drifting your thread.
As to some of your original inquiries, I?ve had good luck with the Palmetto State Armory stuff, especially for the price. I pieced mine together over time because that?s just what I do. I think I had about $700-750 tied up in mine. Looks like you could buy one complete from PSA for around $650 ish.
Yeah I have a few of PSA's things. For 9mm though they haven't been having anything available except for 4" barreled ones. And I was really hoping less than $600, I have a hard time wanting to pay more for that than I did for a 5.56 and I have lowers and uppers from PSA that together didn't cost that much.
Sorry for drifting your thread.
As to some of your original inquiries, I?ve had good luck with the Palmetto State Armory stuff, especially for the price. I pieced mine together over time because that?s just what I do. I think I had about $700-750 tied up in mine. Looks like you could buy one complete from PSA for around $650 ish.
My PSA build was pretty much no-frills and I thought the money I had in it was reasonable. I couldn?t get one of their barrels at the time so went with one from someone else (Odinworks I think) and I ran an economical ALG handguard and everything else was basic AR-15/AR9 stuff.
I would be curious what you could get in your price range but not sure I?d trust something factory built that cost so little.
Definitely wish you luck. Keep us updated.
And I was really hoping less than $600, I have a hard time wanting to pay more for that than I did for a 5.56 and I have lowers and uppers from PSA that together didn't cost that much.
So I am assuming you spent more than that on your Scorpion yet somehow you get cheap on a 9mm carbine if it?s based on the AR platform?
Also, as far as using the Ruger in a PCC match, I?d do it in a heartbeat. It has less recoil than any AR platform 9mm I?ve fired and has a last round hold open and it even falls in your sub $600 budget.
Honestly though, if I were you I would just run the Scorpion.
I do get the thing about familiarity though as far as the ergonomics and controls layout so definitely don?t fault you for wanting some sort of AR type carbine.
Any idea how much that would run for the completed gun doing it the way you did?
Not sure what I had in it for the AR9 carbine...bought eveything over time....a lil less than $270 or so for upper n lower. Prolly around $800 or so.
Wife's AR9 pistol was a bit more cuz she wanted it to be pretty...
JohnnyEgo
04-07-2020, 19:25
I ran this for a little while in PCC, when PCC was brand new to USPSA:
https://www.johnnyego.com/firearms/suppressor/ryder05.JPG
At first, it was like me and one other guy running PCC at events held at a local indoor range, which were all designed around the short courses. We were absolutely blazing fast compared to the other classes, in part because there were no surrender positions or draw. The biggest thing you had to be conscious of with the AR was height over bore. As the class matured, more folks started to join, better courses started showing up, and it got a lot more challenging, in a good way. When I stepped away from it about two years ago, I had started to find the short barrel to not be a competitive advantage. While I could keep pace with most folks, talented folks with full length carbines routinely cleaned my clock. It came down to the splits. Whatever added maneuverability I had from the short barrel was offset by their faster shot-to-shot time, by virtue of the fact that their carbines had next to no recoil with the added weight. So if it is truly USPSA PCC you are after, I wouldn't go out of my way to build a shorty.
Great-Kazoo
04-08-2020, 09:34
Yeah I have a few of PSA's things. For 9mm though they haven't been having anything available except for 4" barreled ones. And I was really hoping less than $600, I have a hard time wanting to pay more for that than I did for a 5.56 and I have lowers and uppers from PSA that together didn't cost that much.
IMO buy the JRC carbine. For the initial investment. You have the option to convert to 40 or 45 acp. Running the same receiver, just changing out the BCG, bbl and mag well. All use glock mags.
Or there's plenty of 9mm under the $600 price point, dep[ending which way you go.
This unit has me wondering if i really need to invest money i don't have . There's a few videos to choose from.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU3OYzcPfpY
Along with 2 AR style 9mm carbines, PSA and a daytona tactical? i did with one of their 80% lowers
I have one of the pc style 9mm takedown carbines w/ threaded bbl. That's one of my take to CA guns. It's an impressive unit that has cycled any 9mm i loaded. Not an issue with any glock or aftermarket mag and to date accurate with the factory irons. Even better suppressed, with that easy to clean takedown syatem.
If you must have an AR style 9mm the psa isn't bad for the bucks, or likewise the JRC .
If you want something different, that's been consistently accurate and works (to date) the ruger 9mm pc carbine is a good option.
When I stepped away from it about two years ago, I had started to find the short barrel to not be a competitive advantage. While I could keep pace with most folks, talented folks with full length carbines routinely cleaned my clock. It came down to the splits. Whatever added maneuverability I had from the short barrel was offset by their faster shot-to-shot time, by virtue of the fact that their carbines had next to no recoil with the added weight. So if it is truly USPSA PCC you are after, I wouldn't go out of my way to build a shorty.
I have been shooting USPSA for 20+ years and I started shooting PCC division as soon as it was made official.
After shooting both 16 inch and 8-10 inch guns, I much prefer short barrels and a good muzzle brake over longer barrels.
A lighter/shorter barrel swings faster and is easier to move with.
Blowback guns like a AR-9 kick a lot more than I like, even with a brake and playing with ammo/powder and springs. Give me a MPX or a Guard anyday. And they dont eat firing pins like blowback guns.
If you do build an AR-9 of sorts, be sure you get one that uses Glock mags.
...if you're speaking about an MPX or Guard, then I imagine you're pretty far away from $600.
SouthPaw
04-08-2020, 10:42
I too was in the same boat, build or buy? Years ago, I wanted to build and bought a PSA 9mm lower. It sat in the back of the safe for a very long time and all I did was put a LPK in it. I finally decided I wasn't going to get it done and found Foxtrot Mike's product line. Primary Arms had a sale of them for $599. It was everything I wanted to build mine into, including the brace. I am completely happy with my purchase and Foxtrot Mike makes an excellent PCC. I agree with Hoser, I prefer the shorter barrels with a brake vs the longer ones.
https://i.postimg.cc/rmLXfxq1/pc1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
https://i.postimg.cc/V6wpqwF4/pc2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Do these AR9 builds all lock the bolt back on an empty mag, or has that issue been addressed and I shouldn't be concerned about it?
Rucker61
04-08-2020, 14:53
I built mine as a science experiment. I had a spare standard upper and lower, with a handguard, and just built it up with a Roscoe 7" barrel along with a Foxtrot Mike 9mm BCG and buffer. I'm using Endomag inserts in some PMAGS. I'm just waiting on a tax stamp to show up.
EDIT: Endomags do lock back the bolt on empty.
Linkless
04-10-2020, 21:30
I have a Diamondback DB9R, the stock mag and the genuine Glock Mags hold the bolt back but the Magpul I bought doesn't. Other than that it has been great but I've probably only put 200 or so rounds through it. I like my Colt Carbine better and the Diamondback will likely become a safe queen only once my Colt LE6991 SBR gets out of jail.
Little Dutch
04-10-2020, 21:45
Mine locks back. That’s not universal though. I spent a few $ more for the last round bolt hold-open.
Southpaw:
That looks nice. I've been looking for sales around that price range but as of late I didn't find what I wanted. I've looked at Foxtrot Mikes a lot.
Yes I did spend more than that on the Scorpion. I was really hoping someone would say take one of my current lowers and put an adapter in it for glock mags and get "this" upper at "this" place for only $250 but seems nobody has gone the route of an adapter that is seriously using an AR9 type. So I'm guessing that's probably not the way to go and I will just have to look for the best alternate option.
So I am assuming you spent more than that on your Scorpion yet somehow you get cheap on a 9mm carbine if it?s based on the AR platform?
Also, as far as using the Ruger in a PCC match, I?d do it in a heartbeat. It has less recoil than any AR platform 9mm I?ve fired and has a last round hold open and it even falls in your sub $600 budget.
Honestly though, if I were you I would just run the Scorpion.
I do get the thing about familiarity though as far as the ergonomics and controls layout so definitely don?t fault you for wanting some sort of AR type carbine.
I saw that Ruger PC Charger and it did look good. Haven't had time to check out reviews anywhere though. May just go the Ruger Carbine route though after hearing more about AR9s firing pins and a few other things that may be wearing because of the design.
IMO buy the JRC carbine. For the initial investment. You have the option to convert to 40 or 45 acp. Running the same receiver, just changing out the BCG, bbl and mag well. All use glock mags.
Or there's plenty of 9mm under the $600 price point, dep[ending which way you go.
This unit has me wondering if i really need to invest money i don't have . There's a few videos to choose from.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU3OYzcPfpY
Along with 2 AR style 9mm carbines, PSA and a daytona tactical? i did with one of their 80% lowers
I have one of the pc style 9mm takedown carbines w/ threaded bbl. That's one of my take to CA guns. It's an impressive unit that has cycled any 9mm i loaded. Not an issue with any glock or aftermarket mag and to date accurate with the factory irons. Even better suppressed, with that easy to clean takedown syatem.
If you must have an AR style 9mm the psa isn't bad for the bucks, or likewise the JRC .
If you want something different, that's been consistently accurate and works (to date) the ruger 9mm pc carbine is a good option.
I saw the Endomag when it came out and thought that would be great if it holds up. How is it doing for you? 100's or rounds or 1000's through it?
I built mine as a science experiment. I had a spare standard upper and lower, with a handguard, and just built it up with a Roscoe 7" barrel along with a Foxtrot Mike 9mm BCG and buffer. I'm using Endomag inserts in some PMAGS. I'm just waiting on a tax stamp to show up.
EDIT: Endomags do lock back the bolt on empty.
electronman1729
04-12-2020, 17:40
If you want a AR-9 Build it. Get what you want as far as parts. Just use the same bolt, upper, and lower from the same manufacturer. Use a KAC adjustable buffer. Mine locks open.
Might want to consider a PTR-9C, in the end the cost will be the same.
Thanks for the advice. I haven't built one yet. Watched a bunch of videos and so forth though. My concern would be running into something like buying the wrong parts that don't or shouldn't be used together. Would be great if I could get into a class that had you putting one together but right now I'm sort of remote to everything. May not be a problem later this year if I get this place sold.
If you want a AR-9 Build it. Get what you want as far as parts. Just use the same bolt, upper, and lower from the same manufacturer. Use a KAC adjustable buffer. Mine locks open.
Might want to consider a PTR-9C, in the end the cast will be the same.
Rucker61
04-14-2020, 13:03
I saw the Endomag when it came out and thought that would be great if it holds up. How is it doing for you? 100's or rounds or 1000's through it?
A couple of hundred, maybe. Just haven't had time to shoot it much.
Little Dutch
04-14-2020, 13:13
If you want a AR-9 Build it. Get what you want as far as parts. Just use the same bolt, upper, and lower from the same manufacturer. Use a KAC adjustable buffer. Mine locks open.
Might want to consider a PTR-9C, in the end the cost will be the same.
Unless I am seriously mistaken about the price of the PTR-9C, the AR-9 should be about half of the cost. There are two AR-9's from CBC posted in the trading post right now for $650 out they door. New in box with the last round bolt hold open. I have several uppers from CBC, they work great.
I saw the Endomag when it came out and thought that would be great if it holds up. How is it doing for you? 100's or rounds or 1000's through it?
I am using the Endomag inserts for my CMMG Guard upper. They work flawless after about 1,200-1,500 rounds.
TEAMRICO
04-14-2020, 14:10
Do these AR9 builds all lock the bolt back on an empty mag, or has that issue been addressed and I shouldn't be concerned about it?
Uzi mags will not lock back if you convert them.
ASC and ProMag COLT style will hold open.
I successfully modified an Uzi mag to fit my build and it does not have the tab on the follower to have LRBHO capability.
Colorado Osprey
04-14-2020, 18:34
Has anybody else been looking at the Palmetto State Armory PA-5 MP5 clone? Supposedly $1000 list $600 street price.. They will be making mags also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdKzoZEXvNU
So if I use the Endomag and then buy a complete 9mm upper what do I need to do to the buffer? Anything? I have both 556 pistol AR and 556 rifle ARs. I may be low on water intake today but am I forgetting anything besides what I just mentioned here?
I am using the Endomag inserts for my CMMG Guard upper. They work flawless after about 1,200-1,500 rounds.
DenverGP
04-15-2020, 02:01
If they get down to $600-700 range I'll be very interested.
Has anybody else been looking at the Palmetto State Armory PA-5 MP5 clone? Supposedly $1000 list $600 street price.. They will be making mags also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdKzoZEXvNU
Rucker61
04-15-2020, 06:53
So if I use the Endomag and then buy a complete 9mm upper what do I need to do to the buffer? Anything? I have both 556 pistol AR and 556 rifle ARs. I may be low on water intake today but am I forgetting anything besides what I just mentioned here?
I used the Foxtrot Mike heavy buffer along with a rifle spring.
So if I use the Endomag and then buy a complete 9mm upper what do I need to do to the buffer? Anything? I have both 556 pistol AR and 556 rifle ARs. I may be low on water intake today but am I forgetting anything besides what I just mentioned here?
I didnt do a thing. I was already using a Tubb flat wire spring and a H3 buffer.
So I found this. This seems to be the lowest priced way to get into an AR9 if you want to reuse your own lower:
https://karrisguns.com/kg-Defender-9mm-16-rifle-upper-conversion-endomag.html
Reviews of them have been hit and miss and most of the misses have been from long long ago around 2012. One thing in this price is a complete endomag (10 round) if you get it shipped to Colo. The endomag costs $40+ if you buy it direct from the manufacturer.
But then I watched Larry Potterfield put an upper together online last night and putting on the carry handle sight seemed to take the longest. I'm not planning on one of those.
The endomag costs $40+ if you buy it direct from the manufacturer.
They are easy to find for under $30 when you look for a 3-pack.
Are you talking about the complete mag with follower and spring or just the inards that would fit a Magpul mag? This is the complete mag that comes with this.
They are easy to find for under $30 when you look for a 3-pack.
If you have the compatible PMAG, why limit yourself to buying a complete Endomag? Just get the guts and stuff them into your 30-round PMAGs.
I see 3 packs of the inserts at around $80.
https://www.meanarms.com/products/detail/endomag-9mm
DESCRIPTION
We are excited and pleased to introduce the MEAN EndoMag™. This product is a magazine insert that converts your Gen 2 or Gen 3 5.56/.223 PMAG? housing into a 9mm magazine to use with a standard AR lower and 9mm upper of your choosing with a Glock or Colt variant 9mm BCG.
Restricted States: YES, we DO ship the EndoMag to all 50 US states. We also have a Restricted State EndoMag (https://www.meanarms.com/products/detail/endomag-9mm-restrictive-states) available for those that need the EndoMag already installed in a PMAG. Check out that product for specific details.
Yes I agree, was just commenting on what comes in this AR9 package they had. You don't have a choice of just getting inserts with the package.
I was trying to add up all the separate parts to DIY and it would be really hard to beat this price.
If you have the compatible PMAG, why limit yourself to buying a complete Endomag? Just get the guts and stuff them into your 30-round PMAGs.
I see 3 packs of the inserts at around $80.
https://www.meanarms.com/products/detail/endomag-9mm
leightoncash
04-15-2020, 13:01
My PSA 16" pcc was about 500 on sale. It runs great. I'd wait for a sale, and definitely get a dedicated glock mag lower.
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Rucker61
04-15-2020, 14:15
If you have the compatible PMAG, why limit yourself to buying a complete Endomag? Just get the guts and stuff them into your 30-round PMAGs.
I see 3 packs of the inserts at around $80.
https://www.meanarms.com/products/detail/endomag-9mm
This. They'll ship the 3 pack to Colorado with no problems.
RANGERRON72
04-15-2020, 16:44
Fox Mike products are nice...… Building an AR-9 is the way to go, you get what you want on it. Glock mag well, I never liked the mag adaptors that some manufacturers offer...….. Plenty of options out there, but at todays COVID 19 panic, a few might be out of stock. Wait a month or two and things should be back to normal. BOLT HOLD OPEN is not needed for PCC but I always thought for home defense its a nice feature..... never know when the COVID 19 Zombies will attack...… Good luck with whatever you decide.
Just checked the MEAN ARMS endomag system, didn't know about it, neat product and gives lots of additional options...…
never know when the COVID 19 Zombies will attack...?
When they come, I?ll ditch the PCC in favor of a RCC.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.