SCOTUS just gave half of Oklahoma back to the Indians?

[Zundfolge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y5d-mHEdL0

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/07/09/supreme-court-allows-native-american-jurisdiction-half-oklahoma/3208778001/

[MrPrena]

http://bsmedia.business-standard.com/_media/bs/img/article/2017-08/14/full/1502727879-6865.jpg






Daler Mehndi - Tunak Tunak Tun

https://youtu.be/vTIIMJ9tUc8

[KevDen2005]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y5d-mHEdL0

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/07/09/supreme-court-allows-native-american-jurisdiction-half-oklahoma/3208778001/

What in the holy hell is happening in this country

[CS1983]

No they didn't.

Some more information in these two threads (along with a bunch of crap):

https://old.reddit.com/r/tulsa/comments/ho502i/us_supreme_court_deems_half_of_oklahoma_a_native/
https://old.reddit.com/r/oklahoma/comments/ho6y1h/supreme_court_just_ruled_muscogee_creek_nation/

[nighterfighter]

Without reading more details, I'd be really curious how this applies to CCW holders in Oklahoma.

If someone happened to already live in the areas that were defined to be part of the tribal lands and owned firearms....

Here is the relevant statute for the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Tribe

"Title 14. Crimes and Punishments
Chapter 2. Criminal Offenses
Subchapter 6. Crimes Against Public Safety
? 2–620. Carrying concealed weapon
It shall be unlawful for any person to carry and conceal on or about his person any firearm, pistol, rifle or other deadly weapon whether
loaded or unloaded. Provided, that this section will not be applicable to law enforcement officers and security guards duly authorized or
certified to carry arms or persons issued a valid Concealed Weapons Permit or licensed by another Indian Tribe, state or the federal
government in accordance with the provisions of MCNCA Title 16, ? 4–114. Provided, nothing in this section shall authorize a carrier of
a Concealed Weapons Permit or license to carry weapons into gaming establishments, said authorization which is governed by MCNCA
Title"




I'm guessing they'll be fine, and that this is really only going to impact a few other legal things, namely tribal court cases.

Regardless, I certainly didn't have this on my 2020 bingo card.

[Zundfolge]

Without reading more details, I'd be really curious how this applies to CCW holders in Oklahoma.

Especially since Oklahoma is a Constitutional Carry state.

[nighterfighter]

Especially since Oklahoma is a Constitutional Carry state.

You are right, I forgot about that. I know that permits are still issued. From reading the text of the statute, it would appear even with constitutional carry firearms are not permitted.
I'm assuming that most people in Oklahoma knew to avoid the tribal lands while carrying, but since those boundaries have radically changed, I'm guessing a lot of people already live/work/drive through those areas on a daily basis.

[.455_Hunter]

What would be more amusing if they said the "sale" of Manhattan was null and void due to malfeasance.

[CS1983]

It’s not as black and white as one might think. With rare exception, traveling in Oklahoma, even on recognized tribal land, is like anywhere else. There is tribal law enforcement, but it’s definitely not like traveling through a res in Utah or South Dakota where there are clear “we ain’t in Kansas anymore” boundaries. In general, tribal land has some idiosyncratic things, but it’s a very unique situation compared to other places in that there’s really not that much special about the day to day.

Also, Oklahoma’s so-called Constitutional Carry is kinda crap. The licensed carriers still have more leeway on things. For example, an unlicensed carrier can not enter any establishment that serves any alcohol. CCW just can’t carry in bars.

[Bailey Guns]

The consensus here is the only thing that's really gonna change is how and where certain crimes are prosecuted. It seems to be much ado about not much. But, there are always unintended consequences to these types of rulings.

[Gman]

I read an article earler today in the Tulsa World that was pretty good:
Supreme Court hands Oklahoma a loss on tribal lands fight (https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/supreme-court-hands-oklahoma-a-loss-on-tribal-lands-fight/article_4c33fbe8-c1ed-11ea-8c16-2705dc65414a.html)


Jonodev Chaudhuri, ambassador of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation and a former chief justice of the tribe's Supreme Court, said the argument about legal havoc in the state was overblown.

?All the sky-is-falling narratives were dubious at best," Chaudhuri said. ?This would only apply to a small subset of Native Americans committing crimes within the boundaries.

?This case didn?t change ownership of any land. It didn?t impact the prosecutions of non-Indians in any way. All it did was bring clarity to jurisdictional questions regarding the border, and it enhanced the Creek Nation's ability as a sovereign nation to work with other sovereign interests to protect people and to work in common interests."

Forrest Tahdooahnippah, a Comanche Nation citizen and attorney who specializes in tribal law, said the ruling's short-term implications are largely confined to the criminal context and that serious felonies committed by Native Americans in parts of eastern Oklahoma will be subject to federal jurisdiction.

?In the long term, outside of the criminal context, there may be some minor changes in civil law," he said. ?The majority opinion points out assistance with Homeland Security, historical preservation, schools, highways, clinics, housing, and nutrition programs, as possible changes. The Creek Nation will also have greater jurisdiction over child welfare cases involving tribal members."

An analysis published in The Atlantic notes of a possible estimated 1,887 impacted cases, fewer than 10% appeared to qualify for a new trial based on a statutory one-year time limit to file for relief.

[cstone]

http://bsmedia.business-standard.com/_media/bs/img/article/2017-08/14/full/1502727879-6865.jpg






Daler Mehndi - Tunak Tunak Tun

https://youtu.be/vTIIMJ9tUc8

Thank you. I thoroughly enjoyed this video. I haven't enjoyed anything as much since Opa Gungnam Style.[Flower]

[Bailey Guns]

When that video first started I thought it was going to be like the Hindi version of Kung Fu Fighting.

[Great-Kazoo]

It’s not as black and white as one might think. With rare exception, traveling in Oklahoma, even on recognized tribal land, is like anywhere else. There is tribal law enforcement, but it’s definitely not like traveling through a res in Utah or South Dakota where there are clear “we ain’t in Kansas anymore” boundaries. In general, tribal land has some idiosyncratic things, but it’s a very unique situation compared to other places in that there’s really not that much special about the day to day.

Also, Oklahoma’s so-called Constitutional Carry is kinda crap. The licensed carriers still have more leeway on things. For example, an unlicensed carrier can not enter any establishment that serves any alcohol. CCW just can’t carry in bars.

That's like down in Prescott. Almost all the commercial property / business in Prescott is on the Yavapai rez. Unless you're familiar with the invisible boundaries, it's no different than crossing from Arvada to Wheatridge.

EXCEPT with interdepartmental jurisdiction agreement. You can run afoul of Prescott P.D. YCSO, ADPS (state patrol) and of course the BIA / Rez police. And of course depending how they decide to charge & prosecute the Feds.

[MrPrena]

Off topic.
That Daler Mehndi - Tunak Tunak Tun video went viral early 2000s, and had very low budget. Now, many international music artist now should get that they should make memorable music video. It doesn't matter it is silly funny, stupid funny, or funny funny. As long as it is memorable, it would go viral.

I wanted to use this music video on our wedding, but my mother-in-law thought it wasn't a great idea. [ROFL2]


As for Gang Nam Style, I was surprised Psy will make video like that. Funny and memorable. Least person to expect. K-pop fanbois told me that Psy use to do kinda psychotic music prior to Gang Nam Style.




On topic:

I assume it will be More federal land inside the state of OK. I want to read more in detail how govt would do this. In order to have less headache, i assume they would have to get lands which are not occupied by residents, cities, etc. If so, it will piss of many many people including some natives who owns a property there.

[Irving]

I recently had some work on the SD res. I handled myself in the same somewhat aloof manner that I always do. In retrospect, it was cringe worthy. When I was done, I couldn't get off the res fast enough, even though absolutely nothing went wrong.

[Bailey Guns]

The house we bought in ID was on the Nez Perce reservation. No different than buying anywhere else. We weren't subject to any Tribal laws or policies.

[CS1983]

I recently had some work on the SD res. I handled myself in the same somewhat aloof manner that I always do. In retrospect, it was cringe worthy. When I was done, I couldn't get off the res fast enough, even though absolutely nothing went wrong.

One of the guys I still stay in touch with in Oklahoma is Lakota, and his biological family is all on the res in South Dakota. He was adopted by an indian couple (mix of creek, cherokee, etc.) and brought to Oklahoma as a baby. He said being adopted was the best thing that ever happened to him. He goes every once in a while to visit his Lakota family and said it's awful between the rampant alcoholism and paint huffing, to just the general poverty.

[Irving]

It was my first time on a reservation so I have nothing to compare it to. It wasn't in great shape though, I can tell you that.

[Honey Badger282.8]

Basically, if you’re not a member of a tribe and don’t commit a crime against a member of a tribe, this has zero effect on you.

[MrPrena]

I thought Lakota was near Ohio area. After google search , I was wrong.

[Great-Kazoo]

I recently had some work on the SD res. I handled myself in the same somewhat aloof manner that I always do. In retrospect, it was cringe worthy. When I was done, I couldn't get off the res fast enough, even though absolutely nothing went wrong.

Having worked on the rez a few years. With you seeing first hand how 4th world some of it is. I'm always amazed how the urban victims complain how tough they have it. I say stick some on a rez in SD, in the mandersen, or kyle area, for a week.

[Zundfolge]

Basically, if you?re not a member of a tribe and don?t commit a crime against a member of a tribe, this has zero effect on you.

Unless you are not a member of a tribe and a member of a tribe commits a crime against you. Then there's a chance that "tribal justice" will be aligned with "social justice" and the whole "only white people are bad" notion gets implemented and the tribal criminal will walk.

[Honey Badger282.8]

Unless you are not a member of a tribe and a member of a tribe commits a crime against you. Then there's a chance that "tribal justice" will be aligned with "social justice" and the whole "only white people are bad" notion gets implemented and the tribal criminal will walk.

In that scenario it would be the feds who would investigate and prosecute your assailant.

[MrPrena]

Yes some of them are racist, and have many hate. Okay I get it.

I had an experienced it before and it really made me uncomfortsble.

Short story:
Around 2009, we had a family friend who has a shop in Sioux falls and Cheyenne WY.
He wanted to expand their business to Grand Island NE, and he brought his employees from Sioux falls.
I decide to help him set up a business as an experience (compensated as well on a discounted friend rate).

Those 2 guys from sioux falls were very fun to work with iluntil they were talking about race and etc. At first hour, I thought they were kidding, but seems like they make joke out of it from dislikeness of a race.

Comment that really got me uncomfortable and I am not even white.

"White men cant be trusted. They took our land and got us drunk."
While holding a box cutter.. "hahahaha Robber become a ROBEE!!"

Then he told me that government tries to put them into the reserves etc.

I told my family friend about this because one of potential pissed off customer can really make him miserable.
He said think of them as a funny beavis and butthead.

I thought I was talking to native skinheads.
[flamingo]

[CS1983]

Well, I mean, were they wrong?

[Zundfolge]

Well, I mean, were they wrong?

The problem is with the framing. We're told "The White Man ripped off the sweet, innocent, honest and decent red man (who was just trying to commune with Gaia in peace and beauty)".

Whites violated agreements they made with Natives ... Natives violated agreements they made with Whites ... Natives violated agreements they made with other Natives ... Whites violated agreements they made with other Whites ... nobody's hands were clean. But the only dirty hands you're allowed to criticize today are the white ones. Which is annoying enough in the context of personal interactions, but its downright dangerous when public policy is determined through this lens.

[Irving]

Unless you are not a member of a tribe and a member of a tribe commits a crime against you. Then there's a chance that "tribal justice" will be aligned with "social justice" and the whole "only white people are bad" notion gets implemented and the tribal criminal will walk.

That chance exists no matter where, or who you are. Total non-issue.

[CS1983]

I'd probably violate agreements I was forced to make or were made by a handful of unrepresentative "representatives", too.

Hard to maintain good faith when at every turn you find another chunk of land taken, mistreatment at the hands of the Army, and a foreign culture shoved down your throat.

[MrPrena]

Well, I mean, were they wrong?
They are not wrong.
First 15 minutes yes. After 2nd hours straight to entire day, it becomes freaky.

I totally understand why they rant.
I see that with Armenians talking same about Turkish.
I see same thing what Bosnian talking about 2-3 other former yugoslavian countries.
I see Hawaiians or former US navy personals talk same about Japanses war loving old impearist/nationalists the same.

Totally understandable. Just dont do too much/long. Majority of population do not have 2hr + attention span.

[FoxtArt]

I think required learning in U.S. curriculum should be to see an animated map of geographic political borders as they have changed over the last 4,000 years.

It really gives perspective both to the fragility of our current nation and perspective on the frivolity of arguing who did what or violated whatever 200 years ago. As a matter of sociology, you'd be hard pressed to find an territorial agreement that was truly honored for more than a century in modern human history. And just look how the world borders have changed in the course of our short lives - everything from USSR, eastern Europe, Africa, parts of south America, Asia, etc. constantly shifting around.

How many people from all of those areas have a valid argument of "Well, this dirt used to be drawn inside a geopolitical border of Zaire, I don't recognize the governance of the DRC and demand you give it back to Zaire!" That's not to say it doesn't suck, but if people want a Utopia, they're going to have to rewrite our genetic code using CRISPR because it's quite obvious that people aren't capable of respecting imaginary lines for terribly long, no matter who they are.

ETA: If we get stuck arguing about ancient historical claims too, it becomes more frivolous in the macro because where do you draw a line. E.g. why does Ute have a claim over Fremont (whoever the hell they actually are?). Should we try to track down genetic ancestors of Fremont Indians and give them the Ute reservations? And so on, and so forth. If we're relying on historical claims of title to dirt after the loss of political boundaries, pragmatically nobody is going to win a claim to anything.

[hurley842002]

Yes some of them are racist, and have many hate. Okay I get it.

I had an experienced it before and it really made me uncomfortsble.

Short story:
Around 2009, we had a family friend who has a shop in Sioux falls and Cheyenne WY.
He wanted to expand their business to Grand Island NE, and he brought his employees from Sioux falls.
I decide to help him set up a business as an experience (compensated as well on a discounted friend rate).

Those 2 guys from sioux falls were very fun to work with iluntil they were talking about race and etc. At first hour, I thought they were kidding, but seems like they make joke out of it from dislikeness of a race.

Comment that really got me uncomfortable and I am not even white.

"White men cant be trusted. They took our land and got us drunk."
While holding a box cutter.. "hahahaha Robber become a ROBEE!!"

Then he told me that government tries to put them into the reserves etc.

I told my family friend about this because one of potential pissed off customer can really make him miserable.
He said think of them as a funny beavis and butthead.

I thought I was talking to native skinheads.
[flamingo]Reminds me of a time my boys and I were walking through the indigenous people's section (really cool display, that I highly recommend seeing if you get a chance) at the Denver museum.

This family of what I have to assume were natives, were in front of us just trashing the white man until they finally broke off to another section. What they didn't realize, is I'm a small part Choctaw from my dad's side, and my boys have that, plus Navajo from my wife. Now I get it, neither my wife or I are full blood, or even hold tribal membership, but my ancestors were part of the trail of tears. You never know who's family tree was part of some terrible incident from the past, but at the end of the day, it has zero affect on me.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

[cstone]

Reservations are what you get when the government promises to take care of you.

The Carlisle Indian School is what you get when you agree to let the government assimilate your children.

DNA testing and blood purity is one of the strange things I still can't wrap my head around when it comes to tribal citizenship.

Does anyone know if the Navajo Nation finalized their purchase of Remington?

[Gman]

The world works on the premise of 'take it' or 'hold it'. If you're not willing to fight to keep it, someone will take it. It's the nature of....nature.

We just like to kid ourselves that we're "civilized". Once things get tough and survival becomes the priority, civility buys you nothing.

[CS1983]

What will be interesting is when the Casinos tell the state gov to get stuffed cus it's tribal land anyway.

[MrPrena]

Speaking of Indian and indigenous people.
Sentineli and the North Sentinel Islanders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinelese

[Irving]

What will be interesting is when the Casinos tell the state gov to get stuffed cus it's tribal land anyway.

I'm under the impression that once any significant money is made on res land, be it casinos or oil, the fed steps in quick and controls that stuff.

[Zundfolge]

Reservations are what you get when the government promises to take care of you.

Honestly, genocide would have been kinder and more respective of Native cultures than the quasi Marxist commune reservation system we've inflicted on the NAs.

Genocide or forced integration, either would have been better for them than what they have now (as horrible an option those would have been).

[CS1983]

I'm under the impression that once any significant money is made on res land, be it casinos or oil, the fed steps in quick and controls that stuff.

I'm not sure what the fed involvement is but the tribes have a compact with the state, which doesn't make sense to me anyway since I understood the res to hold an almost sovereign territory status.

Also:

https://i.imgur.com/hF6nPyR.jpg