View Full Version : Polis to mandate masks across the state
Guess king polis will make masks mandatory across the state.
https://kdvr.com/news/health/coronavirus-health/sources-gov-polis-to-announce-statewide-mask-mandate/
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Shut up and do as you're told, peasant!
colorider
07-16-2020, 12:57
Not shocking at all. I give it 2-3 weeks before he starts shutting some businesses down. School is going to last 2 weeks until he shuts down in school learning. He is going off of numbers from TX, FL, AZ, and the other states with big increases and taking action here as if our numbers are like theirs. He is "scared" we will become like them. He says it in his speeches every time. I've said it before and I will say it again. He craves attention.
hollohas
07-16-2020, 13:02
Makes sense. Death rates have plummeted. It's only logical to INCREASE restrictions when the threat is decreasing...
I hate that douche. Seriously, I can't even stand to look as his smug face. He's the worst.
Little Dutch
07-16-2020, 13:03
I wonder if I'll be asked to leave (and if it will be by the people or the store owner), have the police called me, or just filmed to become a victim of cancel culture. Or some combination of the three.
I question on what the trajectory this is aimed at getting us on
and we know this step will be important to ensure that we are doing everything possible to set Colorado on the right trajectory.
As long as things are open and people are able to work, then wearing a mask will be only a minimal bother.
I saw a guy who had face covered with his shirt.
The place did not say anything.
He did in fact covered portion of his face with his dirty shirt.
It might prevent a covid19 viral infection, but he might get a fungal or bacterial infection from filthy shirt. LoL.
Once Government establishes "Control" of anything they will never let it go...... Now they feel like its their duty to tell the average citizen how to protect themselves in public.
This is a very slippery slope we are on. Not only from a government level but also from a business marketplace perspective. Businesses are now trying to dictate how we live.
I went to King Supers today and paid with cash, they said that they couldn't give me coin change and I could either donate my change or it would be applied to my loyalty account. I told them that they had two choices. Get me my change or lose the sale. Magically, my change appeared and the transaction was completed properly. Don't let these businesses force feed their retarded policies on you. If they can't make change then they should close their doors until they can.
I thought it was mandatory that businesses accept cash, but it seems like it isn't.
Fuck him. "Mandatory" doesn't mean "law".
DON'T BE A SHEEP!!!
All this will go away in November if Biden wins. It will get worse when Trump wins.
tactical_2012
07-16-2020, 13:50
Saw this online
tactical_2012
07-16-2020, 13:51
Also heard King Soopers and Walmart will have a no exemption policy if you cant wear a mask they will require you to wear a face shield
tactical_2012
07-16-2020, 13:56
82290
Also thinking about going full on retard and ordering a face shield for my team wendy helmet and just wearing it around
Stop confusing the matter with facts...... Sheep don't like to hear facts. They want to be told what to do regardless of the logic associated with what that might be.
I also want to point out that EVEN IF the masks the majority of the people are wearing in public were effective in filtering out this pathogen, you could never get them to consistently put the masks on correctly. When at least 50% of the people wearing masks have their nose sticking out the top its a lost cause.
This whole mask thing is no different than the TSA security screening at the airport. Its a theater performance of safety/security which only goal is to make people "Feel" better about the situation.
I’ve been wearing my mask every time I go out since they told us to. I don’t know why but people just don’t come near me.I kind of like wearing my mask. Plus I have never seen them out of stock [blah-blah][Sarcasm2]
82292
I dont care what whatever says, but I do honor private property policies.
If I dont like wearing mask at walmart, Target, or at your private business, then I do not have a business being there.
If a private property said no JAGGING OFF, you dont JAGGOFF or you will get ASP'ed.
clodhopper
07-16-2020, 15:32
Cause the petrie dish of Denver reflects exactly the conditions elsewhere in the unpopulated portions of the state, no one is special, everyone gets to participate. So stupid.
Batteriesnare
07-16-2020, 15:34
Fuck him. "Mandatory" doesn't mean "law".
DON'T BE A SHEEP!!!
If its enforced.......little difference.
Scanker19
07-16-2020, 15:47
In NM it’s a $100 fine for not having your magic Handkerchief. We’re suppose to have them while exercising too, outside....
If its enforced.......little difference.
Where do you want them to insert your microchip?
I can?t do it. This morning I was in a situation where I had to wear one longer than 5 min, which is 5 min too long anyway, and I started gagging and getting claustrophobic. To go through that all day? Nope. Not gonna. Not sure why but this has been the case any time I?ve had to wear one, and I never experienced that in a gas mask. Between the amount of crap I could sell, no debt, and savings, I might just quit until I can get a remote position if they make this an issue and we can?t WFH (which, really, we can?t even though we ?did? for 3 months).
I'll wear one if the sign on the store demands it or the business owner asks me to, otherwise NO. Like REI the other night, I wore one because we wanted to see some items in person and REI won't let you in the store w/o one. I took it off on my way out. I was in Broomfield Pawn yesterday and the owner asked me to wear one so I did.
SouthPaw
07-16-2020, 16:19
https://i.postimg.cc/BbjGZRgk/mask.jpg (https://postimg.cc/H81NBZF9)
GilpinGuy
07-16-2020, 17:03
I liked his "selfish bastards" remark the other day for those that don't wear a mask. Very classy.
Apparently the masks with the one way valve for exhaling won't be allowed either. But a handkerchief is ok? [facepalm]
I'll wear one if the sign on the store demands it or the business owner asks me to, otherwise NO. Like REI the other night, I wore one because we wanted to see some items in person and REI won't let you in the store w/o one. I took it off on my way out. I was in Broomfield Pawn yesterday and the owner asked me to wear one so I did.
That's all it takes.
Wearing a mask doesn't bother me. Being asked to wear a mask does bother me. It doesn't make sense, but that's how I feel. I have to remind myself that no matter how snarky a sign reads, NO ONE enjoys this. Businesses put up signs so they can run their business. Remembering that all the people I interact with are likely just as frustrated as I am, really helps curb the irritation. Also, I meet with strangers all day, including going into their homes. I'd be a special kind of asshole to assume that they wouldn't mind me not wearing a mask while I'm in their house.
Cause the petrie dish of Denver reflects exactly the conditions elsewhere in the unpopulated portions of the state, no one is special, everyone gets to participate. So stupid.
That's pretty much where DougCo is with the Tri-County Health "mandate." Told them to not only pound sand and opted out, but pulled the trigger on announcing their plans to officially withdraw from the org.
DougCo's Covid rates in all categories across the board are nowhere near the other counties and there's already a high rate of voluntary compliance. I'm half expecting DougCo and other rural counties will tell Pollis to FOAD.
Saw this online
...and like most anti-mask stuff it completely misses the point.
You wear a mask to reduce your exhale plume. Just like you cover your nose or mouth when you sneeze or cough to reduce that plume.
It doesn't stop the virus, it just keeps it from travelling as far. That's all.
I don't care if you wear a mask or not. I'm a big boy and can choose where to go and who to see.
But this constant misinterpreting what masks are for is getting really, really annoying.
I get it, you don't like being told to wear one. But when you post stuff that completely misses the point, you come across as, how shall I say, ignorant.
O2
.455_Hunter
07-16-2020, 17:52
Of all the problems in this country, being required to wear a facial covering in public in an attempt to reduced the spread of sickness during a pandemic is the least of my concerns.
I am not sure why everybody is so indignant about it, both right and left. Pick another hill to die on.
Is it perfect?- No.
Is it annoying and frustrating?- Yes.
Does it help reduce rates of transmission?- Yes.
Does your not wearing of a facial covering marginally increase my chances of getting sick?- Yes.
Does your not wearing of a facial covering marginally increase my chances of vectoring sickness to my elderly parents?- Yes.
I swear some people believe if they wear a bandanna over their face today to go shopping at Walmart, that the .gov will be at their house tomorrow to collect their guns...
Of all the problems in this country, being required to wear a facial covering in public in an attempt to reduced the spread on sickness during a pandemic is the least of my concerns.
I am not sure why everybody is so indignant about it, both right and left. Pick another hill to die on.
Is it perfect?- No.
Is it annoying and frustrating?- Yes.
Does it help reduce rates of transmission?- Yes.
Does your not wearing of a facial covering marginally increase my chances of getting sick?- Yes.
Does your not wearing of a facial covering marginally increase my chances of vectoring sickness to my elderly parents?- Yes.
I swear some people believe if they wear a bandanna over their face today to go shopping at Walmart, that the .gov will be at their house tomorrow to collect their guns...
A+
I have worn a mask in public since this started.
It might help and it might not.
If I can do a small part and help not make the cashier that has encountered 100 different humans this shift not get sick and the only thing I have to deal with is 20 minutes of Red Bull breath what ever.
I have to wear masks of different types for long hours for work from n95’s to full blown paint masks. All of which are mandated for my health and safety. Why wouldn’t I offer the same courtesy to those that to this point haven’t had a mandate requiring them.
Honestly I am surprised the state mandate took so long. There is a lot of full red states that implemented and reimplemented it before CO first did.
But this constant misinterpreting what masks are for is getting really, really annoying.
I get it, you don't like being told to wear one. But when you post stuff that completely misses the point, you come across as, how shall I say, ignorant.
O2
Totally agree!
hollohas
07-16-2020, 18:59
Does it help reduce rates of transmission?- Yes.
But the numbers don't show this^.
Colorado, at least the front range, has had VERY high mask compliance for a couple months now.
REAL respirators work. They've been tested and PROVEN for a very long time.
Your old t-shirt MIGHT just help a little bit, but there is literally zero laboratory evidence to prove it reduces any sort pathogen transmission. And the real world data suggests they don't actually work because infection rates are increasing rapidly, with 80%+ mask compliance in public, during a season on which every expert said the virus transmission would slow.
Evidence very clearly shows getto t-shirt masks aren't actually doing anything to help.
But it makes people FEEL better, so it must be science.
BPTactical
07-16-2020, 19:01
3 word response:
Fuck You Guvna
hollohas
07-16-2020, 19:06
..., NO ONE enjoys this. Businesses put up signs so they can run their business. Remembering that all the people I interact with are likely just as frustrated as I am.
Oh, there sure seems to be a lot of people out there enjoying this. They seem to love that society now completely accepts them yelling and attacking complete strangers in public when they see them not wearing a mask. The mask nazis DO enjoy the perceived power they now have in a public setting.
BPTactical
07-16-2020, 19:08
Wearing a fabric mask to stop a virus that needs 40,000X magnification to be seen is like building a chain link fence to stop mosquitoes.
.455_Hunter
07-16-2020, 19:14
Colorado, at least the front range, has had VERY high mask compliance for a couple months now.
Somewhat true, and our rates of infection has been lower than many other areas after a mild "reopening".
Your old t-shirt MIGHT just help a little bit, but there is literally zero laboratory evidence to prove it reduces any sort pathogen transmission. And the real world data suggests they don't actually work because infection rates are increasing rapidly, with 80%+ mask compliance in public, during a season on which every expert said the virus transmission would slow. Evidence very clearly shows getto t-shirt masks aren't actually doing anything to help.
The ONLY thing a facial covering does is help to reduce the spew plume coming out of your mouth. It doesn't protect YOU, it moderately helps to protect others. I agree, a properly fitted respirator is required to effectively protect yourself.
But it makes people FEEL better, so it must be science.
No. I would actually say it is the other way around. Not wearing a facial covering makes people FEEL like they are independent, cool, and sticking to the man.
.455_Hunter
07-16-2020, 19:15
Wearing a fabric mask to stop a virus that needs 40,000X magnification to be seen is like building a chain link fence to stop mosquitoes.
Completely missing the point of a mask. Its been discussed several times.
.455_Hunter
07-16-2020, 19:26
The mask nazis DO enjoy the perceived power they now have in a public setting.
Yup- Comply with the Mask Karens today and tomorrow you can report for gun turn-in, microchiping, and transport to the re-education camp.
hollohas
07-16-2020, 19:32
Somewhat true, and our rates of infection has been lower than many other areas after a mild "reopening".
.
So our rates of infection are lower than other areas and that justifies increased statewide restrictions how?
Increase positives even with mask compliance (due to increased testing) + lower rates of infection than other areas = stricter restrictions??
That's not science. That's knee jerk, feel-good BS by a POS power hungry governor.
Of all the problems in this country, being required to wear a facial covering in public in an attempt to reduced the spread of sickness during a pandemic is the least of my concerns.
I am not sure why everybody is so indignant about it, both right and left. Pick another hill to die on.
Is it perfect?- No.
Is it annoying and frustrating?- Yes.
Does it help reduce rates of transmission?- Yes. Prove it.
Does your not wearing of a facial covering marginally increase my chances of getting sick?- Yes. Prove it.
Does your not wearing of a facial covering marginally increase my chances of vectoring sickness to my elderly parents?- Yes. That's between you and your parents.
I swear some people believe if they wear a bandanna over their face today to go shopping at Walmart, that the .gov will be at their house tomorrow to collect their guns...
What has been proven time and again is that even the "experts" don't know shit about this.
Rate of transmission has been going up, but the deaths have been consistently falling, and the MSM doesn't talk about that statistic. Coincidence?
When I see the way people handle their masks leaving a store, like stuffing it in a pocket or purse, just goes to show that this is medical theater. There's no strict guidance on what constitutes a "mask", they're not worn properly most of the time, and people keep touching them and adjusting them regularly. Just admit it, the mask is part of a costume.
thedave1164
07-16-2020, 19:46
poleus can shove his mandates up his @$$, oh wait, he already does.
hollohas
07-16-2020, 19:46
.
Rate of transmission has been going up, but the deaths have been consistently falling, and the MSM doesn't talk about that statistic. Coincidence?
Exactly.
JeffCo instituted its own mandate this week prior to the statewide. Meanwhile, Jeffco has seen 10 alleged covid deaths in the last month. Only 13 people in the hospital with it currently. And average test positive rates in the 3.5% range (96.5% of people getting tested are negative). A huge decrease over what we saw in March and April, damn good statistics really. These are not pandemic level numbers.
But, people are scared...so masks for everyone. Heaven forbid someone stand up in front of the citizens and say, "we're beating this guys. The numbers are very encouraging. Deaths are WAY down and that's what we want. We don't have to worry so much anymore, things are changing and the danger just isn't what it was in the spring"...no, that'd be crazy talk.
If we're beating this, which it appears we are, wouldn't loosening up be like punting on 2nd down?
bellavite1
07-16-2020, 20:04
JFC, just wear the damn mask already!
You don't want to be told what to do by a liberal faggot?
Well, neither do I, but that is the price you pay for living in a society.
And yes, unfortunately the majority voted these clowns in power.
So, you can either go by the rules of your chosen society or move to the Appalachian mountains and live as a hermit.
Everybody is a rebel...[facepalm]
.455_Hunter
07-16-2020, 20:06
What has been proven time and again is that even the "experts" don't know shit about this.
Rate of transmission has been going up, but the deaths have been consistently falling, and the MSM doesn't talk about that statistic. Coincidence?
When I see the way people handle their masks leaving a store, like stuffing it in a pocket or purse, just goes to show that this is medical theater. There's no strict guidance on what constitutes a "mask", they're not worn properly most of the time, and people keep touching them and adjusting them regularly. Just admit it, the mask is part of a costume.
I agree that people fondling their facial coverings isn't helping, but I am not sure what to tell you if you don't understand how disrupting the direct airflow out of your respiratory system decreases your ability infect others if you are a carrier.
A buddy I served in the Army with is now finishing a masters in microbiology. He sent me this, from a former professor of his who has a PhD in virology.
Based on how I read this, pretty much everything we see with these masks is either complete BS or pissing in the wind.
Here is text from a former professor who has a PhD in virology, specifically focused on Influenza:
tl;dr version: I'm neither pro- nor anti-mask. I have been wearing one when in public, and will continue to do so. I think it's a much more complex issue than most people realize, and people want to buy into whichever information they find that supports their particular opinion on it. Masks alone are not the cure-all to this thing that a lot of people would like to believe.
Longer version:
People don't understand a.) how much we still don't know on this thing's transmissibility and b.) aerosolized droplet sizes vs. pore sizes of a variety of mask-making materials.
Do masks likely catch a portion of the aerosolized respiratory droplets that could contain this virus? Yes. But they certainly don't catch them all, and it'd be HIGHLY dependent on the mask material used and the behavior of the person using it. This is true of all barrier PPE, and the behavior part is why condoms sometimes "don't work." It all comes down to how effectively people use them.
And therein lies the problem. It's the same problem we had back in the influenza pandemic of 1918. Masks likely do SOME good - but only if people widely embrace them, use the correct ones, and use them correctly/change them frequently. Think about your experiences in the last few weeks - do you think people are doing those things?
There was a ton of back and forth on masks back in 1918, too. When enough people are steadfastly refusing to use them, and if people aren't using them properly, it muddies the waters of results obtained by their use.
It's also not correct to assume that masks are the only variable here - how strongly people socially distance, and what other behaviors and activities they engage in are all at play.
Be honest with yourself, no matter if you're firmly in the "everyone should wear one, 24/7" or the "masks are an impingement on my personal freedoms!" camp - when you point out a study...did you actually read the study itself, or did you read a news article that summarized it? Did you consider the experimental setup, the stats run, the controls? If you didn't, I encourage you to do so before you try to repost/share it. You're likely just pinging secondary information written in a way that supports a particular stance around in your own personal belief bubble.
Masks alone are NOT a cure-all for this situation. We need to continue to practice very strong social distancing and limited contact with other people. We need strong(er) testing. We need better science-backed guidance and policies, especially from the federal level. And then, yes, on top of all of THAT, we would most likely benefit from a wider overall acceptance and proper use of masks by the general public.
But if mask mandates push more people into the fringes of improper/no use (coupled with their regular activities), then the whole idea backfires. We're going to need to monitor and adjust guidance and education as time goes on with this thing.
Here ends my rant. :)
hollohas
07-16-2020, 20:13
We just need to flatten the curve they said...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200717/3afe05897697852d75d29c4d5aa33124.jpg
hollohas
07-16-2020, 20:18
It's not just masks folks. All of the local variances that had been approved were cancelled today too. Many more restrictions were instituted today by means of nullifying the local variances that the state had previously approved
[For the record, I wear one when entering a place of business that requires one and I wear one in areas at my work that requires them]
I'm not anti-mask. I'm anti fear based bullshit.
.455_Hunter
07-16-2020, 20:21
We just need to flatten the curve they said...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200717/3afe05897697852d75d29c4d5aa33124.jpg
... and keep it there instead of letting it jump back up like other states, while letting at least some more people get back to work.
hollohas
07-16-2020, 20:33
... and keep it there instead of letting it jump back up like other states, while letting at least some more people get back to work.Who's getting to go back to work that hasn't already? Nobody. It was just a couple weeks ago the governor closed bars again. The North Pole was closed a couple weeks ago. Just to name a couple examples.
More businesses are being closed, he hasn't cleared any more to open. Unless I missed something?
The death rate has been stable for a month, but restrictions are tightening. That doesn't make sense.
hollohas
07-16-2020, 20:47
Reading the comments on Governor Polis' social media accounts, every other comment includes "It's also not safe to open schools in August. Please mandate schools close until it's safe for our kids."
This is more than masks. This is insanity. It's unadulterated fear.
.455_Hunter
07-16-2020, 20:49
Who's getting to go back to work that hasn't already? Nobody. It was just a couple weeks ago the governor closed bars again. The North Pole was closed a couple weeks ago. Just to name a couple examples.
More businesses are being closed, he hasn't cleared any more to open. Unless I missed something?
The death rate has been stable for a month, but restrictions are tightening. That doesn't make sense.
I would say its based on observation of other states that have been unable to maintain a "flattened curve". I agree that re-closure of business is problematic, but wearing a mask and not standing nut to butt isn't re-closure.
I had to go to Walmart last night- 100% of staff were masked and 80% of customers were also masked. The ones that weren't were a cross-section ranging across Confederate flag t-shirt lifted truck redneck types, urban yute pimped lowered Honda types, and families with children. I guess who is acting like a "Karen" is in the eye of the beholder.
GilpinGuy
07-16-2020, 20:52
If some political asshole said, "This virus repels from the color pink. I mandate that everyone wears a pink ribbon on their head to help reduce the spread blah blah blah I am great and omnipotent so obey me", would you do it?
.455_Hunter
07-16-2020, 20:52
This is more than masks. This is insanity. It's unadulterated fear.
I agree that the "keep everything closed until this goes away" is just as dangerous, or more, than the actual sickness. The goal should be to minimize vectors for transmission while trying to re-establish as much of the economy (and "normal" life) as possible.
.455_Hunter
07-16-2020, 20:55
If some political asshole said, "This virus repels from the color pink. I mandate that everyone wears a pink ribbon on their head to help reduce the spread blah blah blah I am great and omnipotent so obey me", would you do it?
No. My position is based on being a person of a scientific/engineering background myself, and having direct family members who are disease researchers or microbiologists.
Bailey Guns
07-16-2020, 20:58
What has been proven time and again is that even the "experts" don't know shit about this.
Rate of transmission has been going up, but the deaths have been consistently falling, and the MSM doesn't talk about that statistic. Coincidence?
When I see the way people handle their masks leaving a store, like stuffing it in a pocket or purse, just goes to show that this is medical theater. There's no strict guidance on what constitutes a "mask", they're not worn properly most of the time, and people keep touching them and adjusting them regularly. Just admit it, the mask is part of a costume.
Exactly. For every medical expert that says "wear a mask" I can show you one that says "masks don't work". So anyone who thinks they have the inside, righteous scoop on this is, frankly, full of shit.
Personally, I'm in the "masks don't work" camp. If for no other reason than how I see the vast majority of people wearing them. Constantly fiddle-fucking around with it, reaching inside it to scratch, adjusting it, wearing it under their nose, pulling it down under their chin, taking it off in one place and putting it on in another, etc. They're like gloves. Once they're contaminated and you start touching shit they're not much good any longer. It's somewhat like a surgeon that wears one mask or pair of gloves over several surgeries. I've actually seen people holding their mask in their teeth while they text or do something on their phone. It's ridiculous.
I don't wear a mask unless a business or gov't entity that I need to do business with requires it. And I don't give a rat's ass if anyone else wears a mask. If you feel the need to, fine. But stop trying to pretend that a person is evil if they don't wear a mask or the rest of us "don't get it" or we're uninformed because we don't wear a mask.
Personally, I still haven't decided how dangerous this thing is because there's so much conflicting information. Every time I start looking and find some "definitive" information another equally qualified source comes along and rebukes it. It's frustrating as hell, honestly. I don't wanna catch it. But I'm not gonna live in fear of it, either, because it ain't going anywhere anytime soon. It's pretty much gonna be around for the rest of my life. I'm just hoping for a good vaccine or other "cure" before my time to catch it comes.
It's not just masks folks. All of the local variances that had been approved were cancelled today too. Many more restrictions were instituted today by means of nullifying the local variances that the state had previously approved
[For the record, I wear one when entering a place of business that requires one and I wear one in areas at my work that requires them]
I'm not anti-mask. I'm anti fear based bullshit.
Did they cancel the in-place variances . . . or just put a hold on new ones that were requested?
GilpinGuy
07-16-2020, 21:05
No. My position is based on being a person of a scientific/engineering background myself, and having direct family members who are disease researchers or microbiologists.
Yeah, me too.
.455_Hunter
07-16-2020, 21:17
... the rest of us "don't get it" or we're uninformed because we don't wear a mask.
Bailey- I think you have made it perfectly clear in past threads where you think plenty of people "don't get it" or are "uninformed" about topics with which you are familiar.
Time to remove this kind of power from the government, at all levels
.455_Hunter
07-16-2020, 21:19
Yeah, me too.
We at least you have a source for your position that you can validate on its merits.
Out of public interest, what are they doing in the casinos for mitigation?
I posted a thing via a microbiology masters student who is in the ?tighten up my thesis formatting? stage of that degree, who was sent the content of the post by a PhD in virology. The basic consensus was masks might work. Maybe. But they don?t know.
Masks are a barrier to something which is wayyy tinier than their pores 9.9/10 times. They no more stop Covid than a pair of underwear and yoga pants stop a fart. Yeah, someone?s shart might not hit me, but their flatulence-19? Totally up the nose. Why? Because people aren?t wearing the sort of mask that actually stops something that small.
Today I saw a guy at work wearing gloves and mask while moving three floors and 2 labs away, constantly touching everything including his personal effects which he will, undoubtedly, touch with bare hands.
We are in the realm of superstition at this point. Not science.
To me, wearing a mask is just another layer of protection--along with having hand sanitizer on hand and washing hands often. I'm 52, but generally healthy as a horse. So I'm not freaked out that I'll have a bad time with it if I get it . . . but I'm not poo-poo'ing it and am not in any hurry to test my luck, either. I have N95 masks and some KN95 and KN90 masks. I wear one when I go to public places or places where there are at risk people--stores, the gym, my mom's house, etc. When I've gone to the gym, I'm one of maybe 4 people wearing a mask of any kind. So I'll be interested to see if Polis' mandate is enforced next time I go. I don't wear one when I'm riding my bike or walking on the trails.
It's a pretty minor inconvenience IMHO. I don't love wearing one when lifting weights, but it's not a big deal by any stretch. If it gives me a slightly higher edge to prevent catching COVID or passing it along, then that's fine. Others can choose to do what they want. Douglas County mentioned on the latest conference cal that their estimates from random checks at busy locations was that upwards of 80% of people are wearing masks of some kind. The county numbers are still pretty low (although creeping up). Coincidence? No idea. Maybe yes, maybe no.
Interesting video from a doctor on airborne transmission and masks. Mask part starts at about 11:20.
xJ4Epf8i1uk
Scanker19
07-16-2020, 21:38
I’d argue that wearing maks gives a sense of Artificial safety causing people to be more risky in their behavior. I.E. going out and about more often than not. Thus any effectiveness of the masks is kind of reduced a or even eliminated al together.
I’d also argue that using just numbers for cases means Jack and shit if the percent isn’t complied as well. 5 positive cases out of 10 is a lot 50 out of a thousand not so much.
I’d also argue that, and let me adjust my tin foil a bit, but I think they (powers that be) want us to be bickering about this right now. I don’t believe masks work or do fuck all other than make people feel safer. If you’re that worried about you or your self or someone else, maybe stay home, encourage them to stay home. The health and well being of other isn’t my concern. If someone is so worried about catching this by working at Walmart then maybe not work there? Oh but you need money... well then you did a risk cost analysis in your head and decided it was worth it. If you think a piece of cloth is going to stop this then I have a bridge to sell you.... on November 4th
I like this thread. Maybe it's my unusually good mood, but despite all the bickering, I think it needs to be out there so everyone can see each other's points of view.
I'm going to Hawaii in October. Currently, if you fly into Hawaii, you have to quarantine for 14 days, which is longer than my trip. If you take a test before you leave and come up negative, then you're good to go. Does it make me a sheep to not want to forfeit thousands of dollars to have none of my family test positive right in time to sink the family vacation?
82301
A guy on the radio today made a good point. Wearing a mask is like using a chain link fence to keep mosquitos out.
GilpinGuy
07-16-2020, 22:11
We at least you have a source for your position that you can validate on its merits.
Out of public interest, what are they doing in the casinos for mitigation?
FYI, my silly post wasn't directed at you.
There are many sources for BOTH sides of the issue. I don't blindly follow one or the other. Our family doc told us that for US (my family) wearing masks would have a greater chance of having us get some microbial infection from moisture growing nasties and advised to not wear one unless mandated. Awesome. Now its mandated by Government. But I guess I'm a "selfish bastard" for wanting to protect myself and my kids. WTF?
Before casino work I was a geologist for 10+ years using microbes to degrade hydrocarbons and other pollutants from spills, leaks, etc. to what the State declared "accptable" levels. It was absurd to spend hundreds of thousands or even millions of tax dollars in some cases to clean up a few hundred gallons of gasoline in the middle of nowhere that would have no impact of anyone and would degrade on their own eventually anyway. A site in Brush comes to mind. Every time I drive by there 20 years later I think about what a waste of time and money that was. And that's why I stopped sucking off the taxpayer tit and really have no faith in what ANY politician says.
To answer your question (which I hope wasn't a veiled insult), casinos are doing the State mandated mask thing for guests and staff, doing temp checks at the door, enforcing distancing when possible (which is a joke), increased sanitization by housekeepers, etc.
I've been deemed non-essential for 4+ months now - poker and table games are still not allowed by the government - so I'm still furloughed. We got word today that it will be at least 2 more weeks before the powers that be make another judgement on our livelihoods. Unemployment will run out in a few weeks. Sweet.
Some say, "Just go out and get another job". Sure, a 50 something dude that built a 20 year career on something suddely deemed non-essential (though pot, booze, tattoos, etc. are) can just go out and make the same doing what? Delivering pizza? Painting? 7-11 cashier? Uber?
I have a few ideas for doing something else but it would involve serious family disruption, uncertainty and most likely moving us out of this state. Maybe this is what we need to finally do that.
I know I'm not the only one in this position but it is REALLY frustrating. Gilpin County has had 8 cases and not not one fatality. MUST WEAR MASK NOW! Seriously?
Rant over. I regret getting involved in this thread. [facepalm]
I like this thread. Maybe it's my unusually good mood, but despite all the bickering, I think it needs to be out there so everyone can see each other's points of view.
I'm going to Hawaii in October. Currently, if you fly into Hawaii, you have to quarantine for 14 days, which is longer than my trip. If you take a test before you leave and come up negative, then you're good to go. Does it make me a sheep to not want to forfeit thousands of dollars to have none of my family test positive right in time to sink the family vacation?
The magical "14 days". Another arbitrary number that has been repeated enough that people take it as "science". It's as effective as the barber shop checking my temperature before I get a haircut. Many people with Covid-19 don't show signs of fever.
http://youtu.be/pJjgxXCkMYk
It'd be more fun if you were "stuck in Hawaii 'cuz Covid" for an extra 14 days, but it might get expensive. [Beer]
Was just looking at the Tri-County statistics. DougCo has had a total of 185 hospitilizations for C-19. I think we had plenty of capacity to handle that. There have been 54 deaths and the average age was 63. The response for this shouldn't be handled at the Fed. or even State level. If you're in a county that isn't having a problem, trying to mandate a response is a bad idea IMO.
There are large chunks of this country that have been unaffected by the virus. Virtually nowhere in this country has been unaffected by the govt. response to the virus.
Not when you can't leave a hotel room.
I will just say that when I have to wear a mask to go into a business you can bet it will have a fun little message written on it in sharpie. Maybe a simple ?fuck off? or ?eat a bag of dicks? or something else to express my dissatisfaction with the paranoia of those around me.
GilpinGuy
07-16-2020, 22:34
I will just say that when I have to wear a mask to go into a business you can bet it will have a fun little message written on it in sharpie. Maybe a simple ?fuck off? or ?eat a bag of dicks? or something else to express my dissatisfaction with the paranoia of those around me.
My wife, whose Asian, showed me a pic from FB of some dick in Walmart with "Thanks Chinks" written on his mask. Very nice.
Bailey Guns
07-16-2020, 22:41
Of all the problems in this country, being required to wear a facial covering in public in an attempt to reduced the spread of sickness during a pandemic is the least of my concerns.
I am not sure why everybody is so indignant about it, both right and left. Pick another hill to die on.
Is it perfect?- No.
Is it annoying and frustrating?- Yes.
Does it help reduce rates of transmission?- Yes.
Does your not wearing of a facial covering marginally increase my chances of getting sick?- Yes.
Does your not wearing of a facial covering marginally increase my chances of vectoring sickness to my elderly parents?- Yes.
I swear some people believe if they wear a bandanna over their face today to go shopping at Walmart, that the .gov will be at their house tomorrow to collect their guns...
Bailey- I think you have made it perfectly clear in past threads where you think plenty of people "don't get it" or are "uninformed" about topics with which you are familiar.
What I said was:
...stop trying to pretend that <snip> the rest of us "don't get it" or we're uninformed because we don't wear a mask.
And, yes, you clearly seem to be one that thinks that way. It's OK, though...you're entitled to your opinion. But make no mistake...it's just an opinion despite your assertions to the contrary. Why should I take your statements above, in bold, as fact? Do you have secret information I'm not privy to? I've seen plenty of medical professionals argue this thing in support of both sides. That tells me they really don't know for sure one way or the other.
My wife, whose Asian, showed me a pic from FB of some dick in Walmart with "Thanks Chinks" written on his mask. Very nice.
Well, my mask decor may be crude and socially unacceptable but I wouldn?t stoop to making any remarks that would specifically target a group of people based on the color of their skin, their religion or ethnicity, or their gender.
TEAMRICO
07-16-2020, 23:25
Why haven’t we wore masks during the last few pandemics? Why now and what changed?
Election year fear mongering.
I will be wearing my Chemical Protective mask into stores tomorrow.
.455_Hunter
07-16-2020, 23:34
FYI, my silly post wasn't directed at you.
There are many sources for BOTH sides of the issue. I don't blindly follow one or the other. Our family doc told us that for US (my family) wearing masks would have a greater chance of having us get some microbial infection from moisture growing nasties and advised to not wear one unless mandated. Awesome. Now its mandated by Government. But I guess I'm a "selfish bastard" for wanting to protect myself and my kids. WTF?
Before casino work I was a geologist for 10+ years using microbes to degrade hydrocarbons and other pollutants from spills, leaks, etc. to what the State declared "accptable" levels. It was absurd to spend hundreds of thousands or even millions of tax dollars in some cases to clean up a few hundred gallons of gasoline in the middle of nowhere that would have no impact of anyone and would degrade on their own eventually anyway. A site in Brush comes to mind. Every time I drive by there 20 years later I think about what a waste of time and money that was. And that's why I stopped sucking off the taxpayer tit and really have no faith in what ANY politician says.
To answer your question (which I hope wasn't a veiled insult), casinos are doing the State mandated mask thing for guests and staff, doing temp checks at the door, enforcing distancing when possible (which is a joke), increased sanitization by housekeepers, etc.
I've been deemed non-essential for 4+ months now - poker and table games are still not allowed by the government - so I'm still furloughed. We got word today that it will be at least 2 more weeks before the powers that be make another judgement on our livelihoods. Unemployment will run out in a few weeks. Sweet.
Some say, "Just go out and get another job". Sure, a 50 something dude that built a 20 year career on something suddely deemed non-essential (though pot, booze, tattoos, etc. are) can just go out and make the same doing what? Delivering pizza? Painting? 7-11 cashier? Uber?
I have a few ideas for doing something else but it would involve serious family disruption, uncertainty and most likely moving us out of this state. Maybe this is what we need to finally do that.
I know I'm not the only one in this position but it is REALLY frustrating. Gilpin County has had 8 cases and not not one fatality. MUST WEAR MASK NOW! Seriously?
Rant over. I regret getting involved in this thread. [facepalm]
Thank for your response. My question about the casinos was legitimate- high percentage of people with co-morbidities sitting indoors in one spot for a long time. I know you have been off the clock for a long time and I hope you can get gainful employment again soon.
Who wants to put money on this virus still being front and center after the election?
.455_Hunter
07-16-2020, 23:44
Who wants to put money on this virus still being front and center after the election?
I have no doubt that politics will definitely play a role how the situation is assessed after the election. What we are dealing with is not made-up, nor is it Ebola. There is a lot of gray area, and how you fall in that gray area depends on many factors, politics included. I feel that intelligent mask wearing, like keeping them clean, not touching them, using only when in close quarters or inside, has benefits that outweigh the negatives, and is NOT a conditioning step for more governmental control. I have tried to avoid these threads and got sucked into this one. Good night.
From the New England Journal of Medicine:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372
This has been a political exercise from the start.
The WHO/CDC mixed politics and their assessment together at the behest of the ChiComs, as opposed to an unbiased assessment without outside interference like they're supposed to do.
No one knows the truth, well maybe the ChiComs know the truth but they're not telling.
We're going to have to ride it out and put up with the political fear-mongering while we ride it out.
One thing should be obvious to all of us. CO state gov't doesn't give a damn about the citizens, they say they do but their actions betray their words.
From the New England Journal of Medicine:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372
We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.
Rucker61
07-17-2020, 07:47
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/04/15/speaking-alone-may-spread-covid-19-coronavirus-here-is-how-talking-sprays-droplets/#534512772748
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2007800?query=featured_home
The masks aren't to protect the wearer, but to reduce the amount of spray and droplets that a possibly asymptomatic wearer is producing.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/04/15/speaking-alone-may-spread-covid-19-coronavirus-here-is-how-talking-sprays-droplets/#534512772748
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2007800?query=featured_home
The masks aren't to protect the wearer, but to reduce the amount of spray and droplets that a possibly asymptomatic wearer is producing.
Part of the human respiratory function is to expel germs and crap through our oral and nasal passages. The mask blocks this expulsion, trapping the germs so the masked person can breathe them in again.
Not just sneezing and coughing, but normal breathing expels things.
So now what?
Rucker61
07-17-2020, 08:17
Part of the human respiratory function is to expel germs and crap through our oral and nasal passages. The mask blocks this expulsion, trapping the germs so the masked person can breathe them in again.
Not just sneezing and coughing, but normal breathing expels things.
So now what?
So you're worried about the germs already in your body going back in to your body?
Governor of entire earth said "obey"
https://www.austinchronicle.com/binary/f194/pols_feature18.jpg
As long as things are open and people are able to work, then wearing a mask will be only a minimal bother.
Valid point - or e.g., stated another way, if we can avoid wholesale closures of restaurants and other small businesses, then it is a minimal bother.
I don't care if you wear a mask or not. I'm a big boy and can choose where to go and who to see.
But this constant misinterpreting what masks are for is getting really, really annoying.
I get it, you don't like being told to wear one. But when you post stuff that completely misses the point, you come across as, how shall I say, ignorant.
O2
+1. I really don't have a position on the mandate tbh. To an extent, there is validity in both sides of the argument. But the individuals in the anti-mask crowd that point to these things for their basis are similar to flat earthers that point to their "indisputable evidence we live on a dinner plate, see this MS Paint graphic here....". There are great arguments that are made by some anti-mask advocates; legal, freedom, regional, blanket, etc., but "the viruses are smaller than the weaves" or "masks don't work" is not one of them, any more than "PROOF - the horizon is flat, we're on a plate" is.
N95 is about 3nm, the virus is around 1NM. So it's not "800 viruses" holding hands, it's 2. And respiratory viral pathogens transmit primary in micro-droplets of water that are inordinately larger than the "weave". Any individual ones that filter through a mask are essentially irrelevant, as there is no pathogen that has a minimum viral load of 1. I'm not sure anyone knows the viral load of this pathogen specifically, but it's most certainly in the order of several hundred to more likely several thousand; meaning you can breath individual viruses all day through your mask and you'll never get sick, but you breath one micro-droplet of water that someone exhaled straight into your lungs, your f$#ked.
That said; I'm not here taking a position that anyone should be forced to wear a mask. Just for the love of Fannie Mays; please stop spreading dis-information. To those that say "there's zero evidence" you're clearly ignoring everything you disagree with, because there is. There's certainly a small smattering of studies that support the anti-mask argument, but they are overshadowed by the evidence in the other direction as well as demographic information from other countries (e.g. Japan). If masks cause such problems, why have the Japanese successfully worn them as a society for years? Why is perhaps one of the highest density cities suffering the lowest per capita infection rates (with a much earlier onset to our own). Why does the US marine base at Okinawa have far more infections per capita than the rest of the island? Etc. etc.
Again, I'm not advocating that people be forced to wear masks at this time. Likewise, while it's an inconvenience, there's far bigger issues across the country that I'm not planting a flag on it either, as there's decent arguments to advance it as well.
Of all the problems in this country, being required to wear a facial covering in public in an attempt to reduced the spread of sickness during a pandemic is the least of my concerns.
I am not sure why everybody is so indignant about it, both right and left. Pick another hill to die on.
Is it perfect?- No.
....
I swear some people believe if they wear a bandanna over their face today to go shopping at Walmart, that the .gov will be at their house tomorrow to collect their guns...
+1. Out of all the symbols of "resistance" to choose, the flag was planted on a hill of pettiness, and a lot of political capital is being put through a meat grinder of futility on this issue.
So you're worried about the germs already in your body going back in to your body?
Yes, because they are expelled for a reason: to keep total load down..
While ill-fitting masks let in pollutants, mask that fit too tightly can also be problematic. A person wearing any kind of mask faces breathing resistance as air filters through the device, making the wearer work harder to inhale than he would without the mask. This can have several adverse physiological effects when the mask is worn for long periods of time. Moreover, carbon dioxide that is exhaled can get trapped in the chamber of the mask the re-enter the body each time the mask user inhales. This delivers less oxygen into the body than when the person is not wearing a mask.
“It can lead to oxygen shortage, suffocation, respiration trouble, and heart attacks,” said Dr D Saha, scientist and additional director at the Central Pollution Control Board.
He pointed out that masks are a potential source of bacteria and viruses. “The moisture from exhalation inside the mask, when in constant contact with the 37 degrees Celsius warm human body, becomes ideal place for virus and bacteria to thrive,” he said. This could result in the growth of microbes on masks and aid the spread of airborne diseases like influenza.
https://scroll.in/pulse/860276/no-good-choices-a-mask-may-block-out-some-pollution-but-have-other-ill-health-effects
This quote was from an article more concerned with pollution-based mask wearing, but the content still stands insofar as what we are seeing, and the reality of masks causing problems. Oh, and the referenced statement from Sacramento County? That was scrubbed from the Sacramento website.
"The Sacramento County Public Health Officer does not recommend use of N95 respirator masks for the general public," read a confusing statement issued this week.
We talked to a doctor to parse the oddly conflicting public health statements.
"I'm recommending it for my patients, said Dr. Fred Herkowitz who specializes in treating pulmonary disease in Oakland. "For people with lung disease (the N95 mask) is still better than anything out there."
He points out what other health workers point out, "The situation is we tell all people that we give an N95 mask to that if they have trouble breathing because the mask is tight then they shouldn't wear it. But that's different than saying they shouldn't be worn."
Sacramento County said, "N95 respirator can make it more difficult for the wearer to breathe due to carbon dioxide buildup, which reduces the intake of oxygen, increased breathing rates and heart rates." The bottom line is, if you have lung disease, ask your doctor.
Sacramento County also argued that "Risks of N95 respirator use outside of fire zones outweigh benefits: Most people will not contact their healthcare provider before using the N95 respirator; N95 use may lead to increased heart rate, respiratory rate, work of breathing, CO2 buildup inicro-ambient air, potentially posing risk to sensitive populations; May encourage outdoor activity which could worsen exposure."
https://www.sfgate.com/california-wildfires/article/n95-masks-county-health-safe-advice-doctor-13399569.php
I'd argue that masks indoors encourages complacency, if the risk is as much as "they" say. Especially when people are wearing masks which are insufficient to stop all but large droplets (which would fall down, and might even tend towards becoming aerosols when forced through the "filter" of the largely porous "masks" (repurposed tshirts basically).
Oh, here's the scrub:
Server Error in '/' Application.
The resource cannot be found.
Description: HTTP 404. The resource you are looking for (or one of its dependencies) could have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable. Please review the following URL and make sure that it is spelled correctly.
Requested URL: /news/latest-news/Documents/N95 Respirator Mask Recommendations.pdf
https://www.saccounty.net/news/latest-news/Documents/N95%20Respirator%20Mask%20Recommendations.pdf%20
N95
Breathing through N95 mask materials have been shown to impede gaseous exchange and impose an additional workload on the metabolic system of pregnant healthcare workers, and this needs to be taken into consideration in guidelines for respirator use. The benefits of using N95 mask to prevent serious emerging infectious diseases should be weighed against potential respiratory consequences associated with extended N95 respirator usage.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4647822/
And while the study was focused on pregnant women, I'd argue those same effects will be felt by everyone -- especially the obese, those with breathing problems already, and other health ailments. Not to mention the psychological issues associated with feeling like you are on the cusp of being unable to breathe for hours upon hours in the day.
An actual infectious diseases expert. more at the link:
As New Brunswick continues to reopen for business, the use of masks is being strongly recommended by the government when physical distancing cannot be maintained.
Dr. Jennifer Russell, New Brunswick's chief medical officer of health, said anyone who cannot keep an effective physical distance during COVID-19 should wear a mask. Some exceptions include children under two and people who can't wear a mask because of breathing troubles.
But Dr. Colin Furness, an infection control epidemiologist and assistant professor at the University of Toronto, says wearing a mask can be dangerous. That is if the wrong mask is worn, it's worn incorrectly or people have incorrect expectations when wearing it.
"The worst one is wearing one for too long," he said, noting masks can collect bacteria and other viruses.
Furness said he wonders why this information isn't being shared when there is evidence about it.
Study points to dangers
He said a study in a U.K. medical journal showed health-care workers who wore cloth masks all day while working were 13 times more likely to get a respiratory illness when compared to the standard practice of only wearing a mask when necessary.
Those who wore a paper or procedure mask were twice as likely to get some type of respiratory infection if they wore it all day. The N95 masks were only worn when required during the study and no staff were affected.
"This shouldn't surprise us," Furness said. "A mask, you're breathing on it all day long creating all this wonderful space for bacteria to multiply, and once they get to a certain quantity you start inhaling them."
He said drug-resistant bacteria could be worse than COVID-19 for some people.
Furness said if a person has to wear a cloth mask, it should be made of heavy cotton fabric. The wearer should time how long they have it on.
"I will only wear it for two hours total wearing time," Furness said.
That's an arbitrary number Furness has chosen, but he said a published study indicates four hours is too long. He boils his masks after two hours of use.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-wearing-masks-1.5560578
So these folks/experts, studies, in combination with my own experience in wearing a variety of masks for everything from CNBC to dust, paint, and now this manufactured fearmongering bullshit, I'm not wearing one. The death rate, if it's even accurate, doesn't mandate a risk mitigation policy of effecitvely forcing ourselves to decrease oxygen, increase bacteria and viruses, and provide a false sense of security.
Masks are like some secretary thinking she can visit hunkyrussians.ru and be ok cus she has an un-updated, unlicensed version of McAfee with an expired trial on her computer.
Just got an alert on my cell phone that his majesty, the guv, has mandated a state-wide mask order.
Bastards sent an "amber alert" for mandatory mask usage [facepalm]
Opinions of individual "experts" or politicians aren't any substitute for science. Again, there's a society on earth that has worn masks on a day to day basis for years, and none of those concerns have ever seemed to come to fruition.
I think the better argument is not one of "masks don't work" it's one of striking a balance. Or in other words, this is a disease with a high asymptomatic ratio and a fatality ratio of slightly less than one half of one percent. Blanket mandates don't factor in individual concerns and issues, and don't factor uneven risk into equations. Targeted mandates (in some cases, more extreme, but highly targeted) are probably far more effective. Then, the balance also has to enter the equation with any of these mandates; our government needs to be realistically estimating costs to education, mental health, suicides, and economic loss, and strike a reasonable balance.
In this situation, a mask is nothing more than a permeable propaganda pass.
I have no doubt that politics will definitely play a role how the situation is assessed after the election. What we are dealing with is not made-up, nor is it Ebola. There is a lot of gray area, and how you fall in that gray area depends on many factors, politics included. I feel that intelligent mask wearing, like keeping them clean, not touching them, using only when in close quarters or inside, has benefits that outweigh the negatives, and is NOT a conditioning step for more governmental control. I have tried to avoid these threads and got sucked into this one. Good night.
At least you state that you're acting on your feelings.
There's "science" on both sides of the mask argument. The selectivity of what is allowed to stay open and what isn't is not science. Who is not allowed to provide for their family or not is not science. Who is allowed by the government to meet in large groups is not science.
Unless you want to say it's political science.
I think that both sides of this could be argued until the cows come home and nobody's opinion will be substantially altered. I look at it as a minor issue and one that is easily complied with, so why not just go with the flow in the interests of social cohesion. They want me to wear a mask in public, I'll wear a mask in public. I'm ordering a couple new masks right now. And maybe a cape.
82303
How much further into the future will people look back to this entire episode and wonder; "What the hell were they thinking when they gave up their birthright to freedom, destroyed their economy, and were so focused on a vaccine when 99.6% of the people that got it survived."
So you're worried about the germs already in your body going back in to your body?
No, you breathe in germs and then exhale them before they have a chance to lodge in to an appropriate receptor. We breathe in and exhale shit every day that if allowed to remain in our system would make us deathly ill. A mask could potentially make someone sick just as easily as prevent someone from getting sick.
The mask blocks this expulsion, trapping the germs so the masked person can breathe them in again.
So now what?
About a bazillion people from Asian cultures over many decades proves that this isn't as important as you'd obviously like it to be.
O2
Meanwhile... Zero media coverage or concern over the criminal trial of some very major figures from the DNC and their friends.
I guess masks DO work... [shithitsfan]
No, you breathe in germs and then exhale them before they have a chance to lodge in to an appropriate receptor. We breathe in and exhale shit every day that if allowed to remain in our system would make us deathly ill. A mask could potentially make someone sick just as easily as prevent someone from getting sick.
Two good examples of how this works on a larger scale: CPAP machines (which should and must be cleaned to prevent bacterial buildup) and, oddly, synthetic bagpipe bladders. Traditional bagpipe bladders "breathe" and do not build up bacteria and fungus (at least usually0. Some modern bagpipes, along with other wind instruments, can harbor bacteria, fungus, etc., and cause severe respiratory problems and even resultant death.
I know for my part, I have a cough in the evening if I wear a mask more than a few minutes a day; not to mention the claustrophobia, gagging, and increase effort in breathing. More and more I've not been wearing the mask at work and just letting people stare at me. Most people will not say anything for one of two reasons: 1) they are sheep and scared of their own shadows 2) they get it. Personally, I don't care. I really, really, really don't care.
tactical_2012
07-17-2020, 09:56
Somewhat true, and our rates of infection has been lower than many other areas after a mild "reopening".
The ONLY thing a facial covering does is help to reduce the spew plume coming out of your mouth. It doesn't protect YOU, it moderately helps to protect others. I agree, a properly fitted respirator is required to effectively protect yourself.
No. I would actually say it is the other way around. Not wearing a facial covering makes people FEEL like they are independent, cool, and sticking to the man.
Then why dont we just wear mask indefinitely there are other virus that kill thousands of people in the US every year. This is MOSTLY political right now multiple laboratories have been caught not reporting negative test results to make their infection rate look higher than it is. Second when you test more people you will get more results. Most doctors are already saying there are more positive cases but fewer with severe symptoms
StagLefty
07-17-2020, 10:17
I choose to wear one regardless of a mandate. I'm at an age and have underlying problems that I consider the inconvenience bearable if it will no matter the effectiveness gives me a little peace of mind while I'm on my "staycation" !!!!
Anyone who is concerned about bacterial build up in masks they wear more than once can pop it into the microwave for a minute. That will kill everything on the mask. Same concept as microwaving your smelly kitchen dish sponge. I've done it with a dish sponge. Goes from unbearably gross to no smell in one minute from the microwave. I don't know how microwaving a nice N95 mask might effect it's usefulness, but every cheap mask and bandana should be no issue.
Can we stop with the bad arguments about touching masks ruining them? If the point of the mask is to reduce the spray from ones breath or a cough or sneeze or whatever, it doesn't matter if you touch it and it gets "dirty," it's still reducing the output. You could wipe dog poop on your mask and it'd still reduce how much of your cough gets out.
I choose to wear one regardless of a mandate. I'm at an age and have underlying problems that I consider the inconvenience bearable if it will no matter the effectiveness gives me a little peace of mind while I'm on my "staycation" !!!!
That sounds entirely reasonable. My folks do the same and primarily avoid contact with other people as much as possible. Stay well!
Scanker19
07-17-2020, 10:29
In this situation, a mask is nothing more than a permeable propaganda pass.
Wearable, literally in your face propaganda...
Bailey Guns
07-17-2020, 10:39
https://youtu.be/BYcgfgM33uQ
https://youtu.be/BYcgfgM33uQ
Thanks for posting. Apparently YouTube pulled it down and fortunately it has been reposted.
That's exactly my point made earlier. Few have been impacted by the virus. Everyone has been impacted by the response.
Can we stop with the bad arguments about touching masks ruining them? If the point of the mask is to reduce the spray from ones breath or a cough or sneeze or whatever, it doesn't matter if you touch it and it gets "dirty," it's still reducing the output. You could wipe dog poop on your mask and it'd still reduce how much of your cough gets out.
And the missing point there too, is this is a respiratory infection, not a digestive one. Sure, touching a "contaminated mask" could get stuff on your fingers, and then you could touch a doorknob, and then if someone licked that doorknob....
....They still probably wouldn't get a SARS-COV2 infection, because it's vector isn't surface contact to begin with, and the body of science confirms that. You could lick a doorknob with the virus on it and you're probably not going to get sick. Breath a droplet of it straight into your lungs though, and you're f%$ked as far as the virus using you for a host. (obv. a minority are asymptomatic, anyway).
If this were Norovirus, the argument that masks are irrelevant because people touch them would be quite valid, because it's vector IS primarily surface contact.
As others' have pointed out, I don't think anyone is really arguing "YAY GOVERNMENT CONTROL" on the forum at all - haven't seen that. So I think we're mostly on the same page, but there's a sizable group that is getting sick of the bad arguments though, e.g. no different than the email chains of yesteryear or the Facebook shares of whatever "proof" MS Paint photo someone made in their basement.
I assume many who did not wear mask were ones who forgot to bring one.
Others are ones who is stupidly confused with "this is America I can do whatever the F I want" idiots.
If people can do whatever the F I want at the private property without trespass charges,many will go to Karen's house and JAGGOFF there. Free country...right?
Aloha_Shooter
07-17-2020, 11:40
But the numbers don't show this^.
Colorado, at least the front range, has had VERY high mask compliance for a couple months now.
REAL respirators work. They've been tested and PROVEN for a very long time.
Your old t-shirt MIGHT just help a little bit, but there is literally zero laboratory evidence to prove it reduces any sort pathogen transmission. And the real world data suggests they don't actually work because infection rates are increasing rapidly, with 80%+ mask compliance in public, during a season on which every expert said the virus transmission would slow.
Evidence very clearly shows getto t-shirt masks aren't actually doing anything to help.
But it makes people FEEL better, so it must be science.
Absolutely wrong. The numbers from a broad spectrum of studies show that wearing masks does reduce (not eliminate but substantially reduce) the rate of transmission.
My view of the past couple of months has been far from a VERY high compliance rate for wearing masks in public. Hell, not even high without the VERY. Watching Monument last weekend, I don't think I'd even have rated it moderate.
Respirators are to protect the wearer from infection (generally in a high risk zone). The general wearing of masks is to reduce transmission from asymptomatic infected wearers. Can 100 or 500 particles sneak through that mask to the wearer? Yes but most people need a larger viral load than that to contract it. Can 1000 or more particles sneak through the mask FROM the wearer? Again, yes but the mask itself will reduce the range and field of their spread so the uninfected person 10 feet, 5 feet, even 2 feet away gets a much lower load.
Polis is an ass and his Executive Order is suspect but 1) the actual text of his EO only pertains to indoor spaces and in public, not to your backyard or hiking in the park 200 yards from anyone, 2) most of the objections I've seen including the ones posted above are bogus.
The mask MIGHT slow down (not stop) the spread just enough for our incompetent hospitals and healthcare can handle the load of patients.
Even if someone buy that 3600 dollar level3 bio suit, it will not prevent the spread. (Unless they are on it 24/7).
That being said, i sure will wear it.
I just wish government didnt order us to do so.
I blame this mask order on idiots who refuse to wear it and disregard private property policies.
When people say, "the studies don't show," what they are really saying is that, "the studies have not convinced Rush Limbaugh, and therefore me." I find it ironic that many of those same people are sitting back calling all the experts fools, while waiting for their favorite political cheerleader to tell them what to believe.
Conversely, I feel that people who tell you that you are a killer if you don't wear a mask, or that if the hospitals get full then Covid = Ebola, are under the very same selective information filtering, just on the opposite end of the political spectrum.
Bailey Guns
07-17-2020, 12:14
I don't listen to Limbaugh or any talk radio for that matter. I don't watch the news on TV. Hell...I don't watch TV. Which is a little ironic since I bought myself a nice, new 65" 4K, UHD TV when I moved.
But, I'm curious... What is the Irving approved source of information regarding mask wearing?
tactical_2012
07-17-2020, 12:17
The only reason the GREAT Governor issued the o
Mask mandate for while only in public buildings is because that is the only place he can enforce it.
tactical_2012
07-17-2020, 12:20
On a side note I saw this online.
If Gender is fluid and a person can choose how they identify age is only a number as you can feel and act any age you want. Therefore I choose to identify as a 9 year old while visiting public buildings to forgo wearing a mask so I will not be violating the Communist Mask Mandate our Great Governor Polis issued.
I listen to two radio stations: 1120AM (Catholic radio), which has no political content, and NPR (which obviously is not a conveyor of my political/moral views). I don't watch/listen to Fox News in general, Rush, Tucker, etc. In fact, I'd like to kick both Rush and Carlson in the balls. We do not have a TV service. Our TV is simply a way to pull up YouTube shows while connected to a laptop or watch DVDs.
When I started looking at pre-covid studies on the efficacy of masks, and the negative health implications, along with realizing some previously "valid" studies were suddenly no longer "valid" or at least politically expedient, and being scrubbed (cus that's science!!!!), I decided I was pretty done with caring. If it becomes a "you will care or else," I decided I'd rather take my chances. I'm in a way better situation than 99% of America. No debt. Good savings. Fairly viable for truly remote positions which are being pursued anyway. And healthy and willing to do manual labor if needed to augment things in the interim. When they decided to make a mask the modern equivalent of Mao's Little Red Book, I decided I would become socially illiterate. That might have consequences I cannot foresee, but then again, so does compliance.
I don't listen to Limbaugh or any talk radio for that matter. I don't watch the news on TV. Hell...I don't watch TV. Which is a little ironic since I bought myself a nice, new 65" 4K, UHD TV when I moved.
But, I'm curious... What is the Irving approved source of information regarding mask wearing?
I'm similar to you. I listen to podcasts, and not usually about this virus. I don't know what the go to source is. My trust in the government has been damaged when they openly lie, then openly admit to lying. I honestly don't know what to believe. My stance is that since there is conflicting evidence that either side could argue (how is that different than literally ANY other topic?), then people on either side don't really have room to be as angry with the other side as they are.
As to my comments, I'm not trying to convince people one way or the other, just trying to point out bad logic. Maybe masks don't work. I don't really know. I do know that an argument full of holes isn't going to convince me or anyone else.
No one asked, but my mention of Rush Limbaugh wasn't just a lame jab. I have a certain image in my head of a person that listens to Rush Limbaugh, but I haven't really heard him since I went through a talk radio phase back in high school. I thought I'd listen to a bunch of his radio episodes to see what is actually said so I'm not emoting out of my ass, so to speak. Basically the anti-mask rhetoric I've seen here could have come straight from Limbaugh's mouth. That's not to say that many people can't come to the same conclusions but it seems apparent to me. My parents listen to Rush Limbaugh and say some embarrassingly dumb stuff. I think my mom said something like she won't believe any virus news unless she hears it from Tucker Carlson, and that wearing masks is the same as the Jews wearing stars. It's not 100% fair to apply my interactions with my parents on this topic to members here, but I don't think it's a complete swing and a miss either.
Anyway, carry on. I think this is one of the best discussions we've had in a while and people really seem to be keeping it together. This is healthy.
The mask MIGHT slow down (not stop) the spread just enough for our incompetent hospitals and healthcare can handle the load of patients.
Even if someone buy that 3600 dollar level3 bio suit, it will not prevent the spread. (Unless they are on it 24/7).
That being said, i sure will wear it.
I just wish government didnt order us to do so.
I blame this mask order on idiots who refuse to wear it and disregard private property policies.
I'll pass along your feeling about "incompetent healthcare" to my Nurse wife, I'm sure she'll appreciate the sentiment.
I'm sure all the "idiots" in this thread that don't believe masking has any measurable benefit for the non-healthcare public at large also appreciate the name calling.
I read text book and clinical studies and use my own math to make conclusion.
I listen to real Healthcare professionals as well.
If I believe 100% of News such as CNBC , FOX business and if they were 85% correct, I would already made about $800m off of watching them.
hollohas
07-17-2020, 13:12
Absolutely wrong. The numbers from a broad spectrum of studies show that wearing masks does reduce (not eliminate but substantially reduce) the rate of transmission.
My view of the past couple of months has been far from a VERY high compliance rate for wearing masks in public. Hell, not even high without the VERY. Watching Monument last weekend, I don't think I'd even have rated it moderate.
Respirators are to protect the wearer from infection (generally in a high risk zone). The general wearing of masks is to reduce transmission from asymptomatic infected wearers. Can 100 or 500 particles sneak through that mask to the wearer? Yes but most people need a larger viral load than that to contract it. Can 1000 or more particles sneak through the mask FROM the wearer? Again, yes but the mask itself will reduce the range and field of their spread so the uninfected person 10 feet, 5 feet, even 2 feet away gets a much lower load.
Polis is an ass and his Executive Order is suspect but 1) the actual text of his EO only pertains to indoor spaces and in public, not to your backyard or hiking in the park 200 yards from anyone, 2) most of the objections I've seen including the ones posted above are bogus.
You're missing my point. I believe government mandates, if any, should be backed up by the numbers and data, not just a few months of the mob parroting "masks aren't to protect you, they're to protect others". That's not science. Regardless if that notion is actually true or not, the rub is if the situation warrants such a response. My opinion is it does not. Masks protecting others is ALWAYS true. So why don't we mandate it ALL the time. During flu season, during cold season, etc.
The data TODAY, suggests the epidemic is NOT getting worse where it counts...deaths. People just getting sick and feeling icky does not justify government emergency mandates. That's where we are now. Deaths are way down and hospitalizations are way down. Lots of people were dying in March and April and we didn't mandate masks. Now, very few people are dying, despite vastly increased positive test rates for well over a month, so why add additional government mandated emergency restrictions now?
Add that to the actual, real world results we're seeing that many areas with high mask usage (Metro area counties have had very high compliance for months) are not showing a lower case rate than areas with lower compliance like El Paso county as you mentioned.
Metro Denver, Jefferson, Arapaho and Adams (1,137, 898, 547, 972 cases/per 100k respectively) vs 491/100k in El Paso County. Hell, even Boulder County with it's high mask compliance has the same cases rate as El Paso.
And let's look at another real world comparison. Sweden has a population roughly double that of Colorado. Yes, their death rate is higher, but the "flattening of the curve" follows nearly the same as what we have seen in Colorado. No lockdown/no masks vs lockdown/masks. Similar results?
82307
82308
And I'm going to say this one more time because everyone who argues against this emergency government mandate is immediately labeled an anti-masker or written off as a "selfish bastard".
I am not anti-mask.
I believe mask use can benefit public health
I personally wear a mask in businesses that require them.
I am anti government mandate. ESPECIALLY when the situation is improving. And ESPECIALLY when the Governor himself nor anyone else can cite the actual C.R.S. that would allow them to enforce it let alone actually create the mandate.
I don't plan on dying on this hill. I'm not arguing in favor of non-compliance. But I am going to argue that it is over-reach, regardless how easy it is for everyone to just comply. That is a slippery slope. No I don't think the next step is trains and reeducation camps. But in reality, the mob is already demanding the Gov cancel fall school...for the children. That's absurd. We are already slipping. There is a real possibility that this doesn't end with just masks.
[I]24-33.5-704.5-1-IV
(e) In the event of an emergency epidemic that has been declared a disaster emergency, the committee shall convene as rapidly and as often as necessary to advise the governor, who shall act by executive order, regarding reasonable and appropriate measures to reduce or prevent spread of the disease, agent, or toxin and to protect the public health. Such measures may include:
(I) Procuring or taking supplies of medicines and vaccines;
(II) Ordering physicians and hospitals to transfer or cease admission of patients or perform medical examinations of persons;
(III) Isolating or quarantining persons or property;
(IV) Determining whether to seize, destroy, or decontaminate property or objects that may threaten the public health;
(V) Determining how to safely dispose of corpses and infectious waste;
(VI) Assessing the adequacy and potential contamination of food and water supplies;
(VII) Providing mental health support to affected persons; and
(VIII) Informing the citizens of the state how to protect themselves, what actions are being taken to control the epidemic, and when the epidemic is over.[/
But, I'm curious... What is the Irving approved source of information regarding mask wearing?
When it comes to members of this community, I always the appreciate the amount of effort that hollohas puts into his posts. He always seems to go above and beyond crafting an argument and listing sources that help him form his opinions.
Feinstein says no coronavirus stimulus money for states that don?t mandate masks (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/feinstein-says-no-coronavirus-stimulus-money-for-states-dont-mandate-masks)
Snip
Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., said states that refuse to mandate face masks should be cut off from federal funds because they are putting the public health of Americans at risk.
Feinstein said she'll offer an amendment to upcoming Senate coronavirus relief legislation to block money to states that have resisted a mask mandate.
"Wearing masks in public should be mandatory. Period," Feinstein said in a statement Thursday.
"...The situation is getting worse daily. Several states including California, Alabama and Montana already require masks in public," Feinstein continued. "This should be universal. My hope has been that other governors would show the leadership to institute their own mask mandates, but so far that hasn?t happened. It?s time for Congress to step in. This is a matter of life or death, and partisan politics shouldn?t play a role.?
That would make sense if the number of deaths was reflected in the increase in infection numbers. That isn't the case. So if you're playing games with the numbers, how is this not a political issue?
Some states are having no issue with C-19, so why should they be forced into something they don't need? Because the federal political elites say so?
I can't imagine wearing a mask full time in Alabama in *checks calendar* the middle of July. Hell, I can't stand to wear one in Colorado in a heavy snow storm.
Bailey Guns
07-17-2020, 14:12
When it comes to members of this community, I always the appreciate the amount of effort that hollohas puts into his posts. He always seems to go above and beyond crafting an argument and listing sources that help him form his opinions.
Well we can certainly agree on that.
RE: your jab about those that listen to Limbaugh, etc... If there's a trending topic and there are certain key "facts" or points that each side argues from, then doesn't it stand to reason if someone argues from a certain side they'll sound like others arguing from a certain side? People have to get information from somewhere. I'm pretty certain Limbaugh gets his info from the same sources everyone else does...he just adds his commentary. Limbaugh is an entertainer...he's just a very well-informed entertainer.
Great-Kazoo
07-17-2020, 14:30
Anyone who is concerned about bacterial build up in masks they wear more than once can pop it into the microwave for a minute. That will kill everything on the mask. Same concept as microwaving your smelly kitchen dish sponge. I've done it with a dish sponge. Goes from unbearably gross to no smell in one minute from the microwave. I don't know how microwaving a nice N95 mask might effect it's usefulness, but every cheap mask and bandana should be no issue.
Can we stop with the bad arguments about touching masks ruining them? If the point of the mask is to reduce the spray from ones breath or a cough or sneeze or whatever, it doesn't matter if you touch it and it gets "dirty," it's still reducing the output. You could wipe dog poop on your mask and it'd still reduce how much of your cough gets out.
I wouldn't micro them. They do have a thin piece of metal in them, to conform to the nose.
If yours don't then it's a placebo that does nothing, to provide a seal around the face.
Same for anyone who feels a mask is necessary. YET has a beard/ facial hair.
+1 to Hollohas argument. There's a lot of diverse, valid arguments on the topic and he nailed a lot of them. That's how you argue against masks. It's not that some of us necessarily disagree with the others, it's largely just getting bored / seeing repeated reliance on the knee-jerk meme-quality rehashing from the politicized opposition that tires us (and we can't agree with bad inferences etc.), thankfully the knee-jerk meme-type of the far left isn't really represented here...or we'd have to to some squirrel boppin most likely.
82312
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcnwAgpXsAEo06P?format=jpg&name=small
First the mask order, and now, even worse, Taco Bell announced it is removing a dozen menu items.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/taco-bell-removing-7-layer-170241356.html
This might be the sign of the end times. Or at least, no more happy wife (7 layer).
#2020isnotover.
I swear I read that Taco Bell news weeks ago.
ETA: They did something similar in August of last year: https://www.tacobell.com/blog/whats-new-with-taco-bells-menu
Further ETA: There was some info on Reddit July 9th.
tactical_2012
07-17-2020, 15:54
Due to recent National coin shortage no one is allowed to give their Two cents
Due to recent National coin shortage no one is allowed to give their Two cents
Hey, where's your PhD in Finance?!
Due to recent National coin shortage no one is allowed to give their Two cents
Fake news. Who doesn't have a jar full somewhere?
I can't imagine wearing a mask full time in Alabama in *checks calendar* the middle of July. Hell, I can't stand to wear one in Colorado in a heavy snow storm.
Meh, I just returned from a bidness trip to a hot & humid area, and will soon be visiting Phoenix. A home-made multilayer mask is my go-to, with ties instead of ear-chafing bands. I alternate masks for work days, hand-washing and drip-drying each night at the hotel.
I can't wait to visit refineries in TX & LA later this summer, full FR required [shithitsfan]
I can neither confirm nor deny I pulled off FR tags and sewed them onto more comfortable shirts for when I had to visit sites.
Little Dutch
07-17-2020, 17:23
Sheeeeeeeeeeeit. I just realized I should have bought my booze yesterday. I need to run to the liquor store. To mask or not to mask...
I don?t mind being asked to leave, but my wife really wants some sweet tea vodka to go with her lemonade. I gotta tell you, I might have to cave on this one, this time.
Sheeeeeeeeeeeit. I just realized I should have bought my booze yesterday. I need to run to the liquor store. To mask or not to mask...
I don?t mind being asked to leave, but my wife really wants some sweet tea vodka to go with her lemonade. I gotta tell you, I might have to cave on this one, this time.
I think you should help your favorite local businesses go out of business by not patronising them because you disagree with the way the local government is handling the situation beyond their control. That'll show the government.
I?d be way cooler with the whole mask thing if the governor mandated that for businesses to remain open they had to require their customers to wear masks.
Then they could post a sign saying that in order for me to enter their establishment I will have to wear a mask.
I really have no problem is a private establishment asks me to wear a mask. Their house, their rules.
But when the local dictator sends me a text telling me I have to wear a mask everywhere I go it kind of irks me.
I am a grown ass man and when another grown ass man wants to tell me what I have to do that just doesn?t sit well with me. I do make an exception for bosses because they pay me to do what I?m told.
Sheeeeeeeeeeeit. I just realized I should have bought my booze yesterday. I need to run to the liquor store. To mask or not to mask...
I don?t mind being asked to leave, but my wife really wants some sweet tea vodka to go with her lemonade. I gotta tell you, I might have to cave on this one, this time.
I think you should help your favorite local businesses go out of business by not patronising them because you disagree with the way the local government is handling the situation beyond their control. That'll show the government.
At least the liquor business is "essential".
(And this is a state issue now, not local)
I am a grown ass man and when....
Totally random, but if you want to bail on an argument with a SO, just say "I'm a grown ass man" in a pitiful high squeaky voice. A derail by both entandre, it works every time for me... MMV.
StagLefty
07-17-2020, 19:22
I did exactly what Soopers asked and wore a mask but apparently that wasn't their only clothing requirement !!!! Some days you just can't win [ROFL2]
I did exactly what Soopers asked and wore a mask but apparently that wasn't their only clothing requirement !!!! Some days you just can't win [ROFL2]
[LOL]
Next time use a thong for a mask, that'll meet their requirements.
Wear your mask as a thong. Covers both aspects.
Wear your mask on top of your head, on the back of your head, your chin....
My box of masks didn't come with any instructions.
Here's the detail that can revitalize the civilized discussion of this thread.
RBJ's cancer is back. Based on the treatment, pancreatic spread to her liver. November could get WAAAY froggy. But, all the frogs will have to wear masks.
I can tell you that here in NC we have had a mask requirement for the last 3 weeks and it has shown no reduction in positive tests. It's been 8% positive since end of May. They aren't going to consider it declining until it gets down to 5%. I don't think we'll see that number before the end of the year. My company provides masks for me and they said they are working on getting us an 8 month supply. I can't imagine the amount of wasted money that is, I don't know how many employees that is from Florida up to Massachusetts.
I can tell you that here in NC we have had a mask requirement for the last 3 weeks and it has shown no reduction in positive tests. It's been 8% positive since end of May. They aren't going to consider it declining until it gets down to 5%. I don't think we'll see that number before the end of the year. My company provides masks for me and they said they are working on getting us an 8 month supply. I can't imagine the amount of wasted money that is, I don't know how many employees that is from Florida up to Massachusetts.
Are number of tests going up as well? I'm sure this will all look differently years from now when we have collected a lot more data and can look back at it more objectively. Hope we don't talk the country in the mean time.
buffalobo
07-17-2020, 21:48
Here's the detail that can revitalize the civilized discussion of this thread.
RBJ's cancer is back. Based on the treatment, pancreatic spread to her liver. November could get WAAAY froggy. But, all the frogs will have to wear masks.You mean Ruth Bader Ginsberg?
A eulogy thread might be tacky but becoming more timely.
You mean Ruth Bader Ginsberg?
A eulogy thread might be tacky but becoming more timely.
Wow how did I miss that one. I feel like a blind bat today. Not enough sleep.
Percent infected, numbers infected....are those the important numbers? How about hospitalizations and deaths? Trying to get the numbers of those that have recovered is like trying to pull teeth.
Give us all the data.
Colorado had a low of about 2.34% positivity and it has gone up to 5.11%. None of that means anything without knowing hospital capacity and deaths.
ETA: Fixed the wording on hospitalizations vs. hospital capacity
DenverGP
07-18-2020, 01:07
Sister in law + her family just moved down to Phoenix. They came back up to denver to visit for a couple weeks. Since they were traveling from out of state, and were planning to visit some older family members during their visit, they decided to swing by the free Covid testing going on at the pepsi center. They filled out the data online, then arrived at the pepsi center, got checked in, then were told it would be 4+ hours before they could be tested, so they left without getting tested. The next day, they received notification from the testing place saying they tested positive, and that they needed to quarantine for 2 weeks. They explained that they were never tested, and told "well, you still need to quarantine". They are a family of 4, all being reported as positive for covid, who were never actually tested and have no symptoms of anything.
My wife's co-worker apparently relayed an almost identical experience, getting told they tested positive even though they hadn't completed a covid test.
So either the testing is completely bogus, or it's run by really incompetent people, or they've using some new psychic testing method.
Sister in law + her family just moved down to Phoenix. They came back up to denver to visit for a couple weeks. Since they were traveling from out of state, and were planning to visit some older family members during their visit, they decided to swing by the free Covid testing going on at the pepsi center. They filled out the data online, then arrived at the pepsi center, got checked in, then were told it would be 4+ hours before they could be tested, so they left without getting tested. The next day, they received notification from the testing place saying they tested positive, and that they needed to quarantine for 2 weeks. They explained that they were never tested, and told "well, you still need to quarantine". They are a family of 4, all being reported as positive for covid, who were never actually tested and have no symptoms of anything.
My wife's co-worker apparently relayed an almost identical experience, getting told they tested positive even though they hadn't completed a covid test.
So either the testing is completely bogus, or it's run by really incompetent people, or they've using some new psychic testing method.
That really makes you feel good about the way things are being handled.
It really boosts trust. [Sarcasm2]
Great-Kazoo
07-18-2020, 08:59
Sister in law + her family just moved down to Phoenix. They came back up to denver to visit for a couple weeks. Since they were traveling from out of state, and were planning to visit some older family members during their visit, they decided to swing by the free Covid testing going on at the pepsi center. They filled out the data online, then arrived at the pepsi center, got checked in, then were told it would be 4+ hours before they could be tested, so they left without getting tested. The next day, they received notification from the testing place saying they tested positive, and that they needed to quarantine for 2 weeks. They explained that they were never tested, and told "well, you still need to quarantine". They are a family of 4, all being reported as positive for covid, who were never actually tested and have no symptoms of anything.
My wife's co-worker apparently relayed an almost identical experience, getting told they tested positive even though they hadn't completed a covid test.
So either the testing is completely bogus, or it's run by really incompetent people, or they've using some new psychic testing method.
That's due to them probably listing AZ as residence. A lot of states are pushing a 14 day self quarantine for OOS visitors. Which is ironic as the same states support open borders. Go figure.
My nephew is suppose to come visit late aug. I figure the best way for him to self quarantine is doing a 2-3 day off road adventure. As well as teach him how to reload.
hurley842002
07-18-2020, 09:32
Sister in law + her family just moved down to Phoenix. They came back up to denver to visit for a couple weeks. Since they were traveling from out of state, and were planning to visit some older family members during their visit, they decided to swing by the free Covid testing going on at the pepsi center. They filled out the data online, then arrived at the pepsi center, got checked in, then were told it would be 4+ hours before they could be tested, so they left without getting tested. The next day, they received notification from the testing place saying they tested positive, and that they needed to quarantine for 2 weeks. They explained that they were never tested, and told "well, you still need to quarantine". They are a family of 4, all being reported as positive for covid, who were never actually tested and have no symptoms of anything.
My wife's co-worker apparently relayed an almost identical experience, getting told they tested positive even though they hadn't completed a covid test.
So either the testing is completely bogus, or it's run by really incompetent people, or they've using some new psychic testing method.Interesting, one of my coworkers has a buddy that had the same thing happen. He signed up for the test, had some things come up, so he never reported for testing, was contacted a couple days later stating he tested positive.
Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
They’ve been having rookie numbers. They gotta pump their numbers up.
hollohas
07-18-2020, 14:21
Dang. I take the night off from the site and I have a lot to get caught up on here.
I'm not caught up but I want to respond to a few things along the way.
.
I?d also argue that using just numbers for cases means Jack and shit if the percent isn?t complied as well. 5 positive cases out of 10 is a lot 50 out of a thousand not so much.
The percent positive is very low. I pulled some data from JeffCo since that's where I live. The percent positive here right now is around 3.5%. 96.5% of covid tests are coming back negative. That's a number I'm pretty comfortable with. [Edit to add: I see gman covered colorado's positive rates]
I wrote a bit about potential slippery slopes yesterday. And it's started. Two examples from today...
1) Denver public schools planned on opening for in person class. They announced they would. They just changed plans. They WILL NOT open for in person class in August now. They will start as online in August with the potential to go to in person in Sept.
2) we're only days into the state wide mask mandate and the "experts" are already coming out of the woodwork to warn that even if 100% of people wear masks and all old people stay home, the hospitals will be full by Sept. Seriously. Days into the mask mandate and the experts say masks are not enough. Goalposts moved. Again.
https://www.denverpost.com/2020/07/18/colorado-covid-masks-social-distancing-spike/
hollohas
07-18-2020, 14:23
My wife, whose Asian, showed me a pic from FB of some dick in Walmart with "Thanks Chinks" written on his mask. Very nice.That's not cool. What a jerk.
They’re not moving the goal posts, they’re schooling us; they’re engendering confusion.
Ever read Gatto’s 7 Lesson Schoolteacher?
https://www.informationliberation.com/?id=11375
Read this and then apply it to the situation. Almost fits perfectly.
A long, good read. Shows the timeline of the “move this pile of rocks over there. Now move it over there,” that’s been occurring.
https://americanmind.org/essays/the-covid-coup/
A long, good read. Shows the timeline of the “move this pile of rocks over there. Now move it over there,” that’s been occurring.
https://americanmind.org/essays/the-covid-coup/
Thanks for the link!
3beansalad
07-18-2020, 17:16
I apologize if this was already posted, but I skipped to the end.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3312159812182279&id=124075334324092
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
200,000 would need to wear face masks to stop one new infection: Norway health agency (https://www.thelocal.no/20200611/norway-doubles-down-on-no-face-mask-policy)
In a memo, published in English on its website, the Norwegian Institute of Public Health, said that even in the best case, with medical masks which prevent 40 percent of infections, 200,000 people would have to wear them to prevent just one new infection per week.
This, it said, meant that the likely negative impacts outweighed any benefits "in the current epidemiological situation".
"The number of people who experience undesirable effects is likely to be much larger than the number of infections prevented," it said.
Little Dutch
07-20-2020, 18:56
Interesting, one of my coworkers has a buddy that had the same thing happen. He signed up for the test, had some things come up, so he never reported for testing, was contacted a couple days later stating he tested positive.
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Anyone Hear anything else about this? I’m wondering if they started batch testing already.
I need to buy a good durable flexible cheap mask. I am running out of those blue mask.
Fake News/Paid Actor? Real Returd?
https://i.imgur.com/OUGbluM.jpg
Tin Foil hatter?
thedave1164
07-21-2020, 11:52
Went to both Cabelas and Scheels today, no mask and no one said a word about one.
Both has signs at entrances saying they were required by government mandate.
Yes, I seemed to be the only one without one today, but I am used to be the black sheep or the fish swimming against the current.
ColoradoMinuteMan
07-21-2020, 13:20
Interesting, one of my coworkers has a buddy that had the same thing happen. He signed up for the test, had some things come up, so he never reported for testing, was contacted a couple days later stating he tested positive.
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This exact situation happened to a good friend In CA.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I need to buy a good durable flexible cheap mask. I am running out of those blue mask.
I just use a bandana. It amuses me to CCW with a bandana on like the friggin Frito Bandito...
Little Dutch
07-21-2020, 14:13
I was asked to leave a liquor store the first day of the mandate. Not because of the pistol on my hip, but because of my face. I left. I put on a neck gator and a hat so nothing was visible but my eyes, left my pistol on my hip, and was welcomed when I re-entered the store. It's a strange time.
Now you cant get a adult beverage after 10pm in a restaurant or bar. (For 30 days)
hollohas
07-21-2020, 14:46
Now you cant get a adult beverage after 10pm in a restaurant or bar. (For 30 days)Well, that will save us all.
BPTactical
07-21-2020, 15:20
My Guvnah can't seem to even perform the most basic of the duties of his office, protecting the Capitol and its grounds, upholding basic laws of public safety and common society.
And he wants to MANDATE what I wear?
Fuck you Bitch.
JohnnyDrama
07-21-2020, 15:36
My Guvnah can't seem to even perform the most basic of the duties of his office, protecting the Capitol and its grounds, upholding basic laws of public safety and common society.
And he wants to MANDATE what I wear?
Fuck you Bitch.
LOL
Little Dutch
07-21-2020, 16:32
I need to buy a good durable flexible cheap mask. I am running out of those blue mask.
Cheapest neck gator you can find. Or your hunting Balaclava. Or a burka. Or nothing. Whatever makes the most people uncomfortable. Your call.
clodhopper
07-21-2020, 17:12
what about a banana?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWn55CHXYAIz8HZ?format=jpg&name=900x900
thedave1164
07-25-2020, 14:01
Hit WM and Sam's today, Walmart asked if I wanted a mask, I politely declined, Sam's just said "welcome to Sam's"
One Karen tried to start something at WM
Compliance was good at COS airport early this afternoon, well except for the frequently coughing family of four on my flight who didn't bother to cover up their faces with a hand/wrist/elbow [Mad]
Did you thank those patriots?
what about a banana?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWn55CHXYAIz8HZ?format=jpg&name=900x900
Best thing I’ve seen in the internet today, priceless!!!
And now tricounty and Jeffco madate masks when outside... idiots.
So is a health department official a Leo? Must you produce an ID for them so they can issue a fine? Or just ignore them like they don't exist?
Did you thank those patriots?
For willfully exposing him to an unknown contagion?
Zundfolge
07-26-2020, 10:12
Anyone who is concerned about bacterial build up in masks they wear more than once can pop it into the microwave for a minute.
Or when you get out of your car, leave the mask hanging from the rear view mirror in the sunlight where it will be doused in UV light and that'll kill most of the germs.
As for mask mandates, they are a symptom of one of the greatest cognitive biases in our culture, the "there oughta be a law" fallacy.
Just because something is a good idea to do (or not do) doesn't mean it is the place of the state to force the issue at gunpoint (and yes, ALL laws ultimately come down to enforcement at gunpoint).
I liken it to seatbelt laws ... you're a fool if you don't wear your seatbelt. You're a bigger fool if you want government to force you to at gunpoint.
Ironically you'll get more people refusing to wear masks by mandating it than just making it a recommendation. So if the goal is to get people to wear masks, mandates are foolish (but I don't believe the goal of the mandates is to get people to wear masks, but just get the people used to more and more mandates ... its more about control than safety).
Just like helmet law in some state.
Speaking of seatbelts, I do remember those late 80s and early 90s automatic seatbelts feature.
Zundfolge
07-26-2020, 12:46
Just like helmet law in some state.
Speaking of seatbelts, I do remember those late 80s and early 90s automatic seatbelts feature.
My wife's 1990 Nissan 240SX has those ... they're kinda annoying.
Bailey Guns
07-26-2020, 14:36
Seatbelts and helmets aren't really the same as the mask thing. Regardless of how you feel about wearing seatbelts and helmets there is some pretty compelling, if not indisputable, evidence they actually do what they're supposed to do...save lives and prevent injury. There is no such compelling evidence (yet) the wearing of masks by healthy people does anyone any good.
I wore a helmet about 50% of the time I rode my Harley. I liked riding without a helmet because I could hear better, see better and mostly just because of how it felt. It was a risk I decided I'd take. Luckily it never bit me in the ass.
Seatbelts and helmets aren't really the same as the mask thing. Regardless of how you feel about wearing seatbelts and helmets there is some pretty compelling, if not indisputable, evidence they actually do what they're supposed to do...save lives and prevent injury. There is no such compelling evidence (yet) the wearing of masks by healthy people does anyone any good.
I wore a helmet about 50% of the time I rode my Harley. I liked riding without a helmet because I could hear better, see better and mostly just because of how it felt. It was a risk I decided I'd take. Luckily it never bit me in the ass.
Medical staff have worn masks for like a century to combat spread of disease in circumstances where others are at risk for infection.
Medical staff have worn masks for like a century to combat spread of disease in circumstances where others are at risk for infection.
Medical staff are trained to properly use a mask and there's proof positive that it benefits healthcare workers and patients being treated.
The gen pop at large is not trained and we have all seen the shitshow that is mask wearing. I firmly believe it's ineffective for the generally healthy.
Bailey Guns
07-26-2020, 15:11
Medical staff are trained to properly use a mask and there's proof positive that it benefits healthcare workers and patients being treated.
The gen pop at large is not trained and we have all seen the shitshow that is mask wearing. I firmly believe it's ineffective for the generally healthy.
Thank you.
Medical staff are trained to properly use a mask and there's proof positive that it benefits healthcare workers and patients being treated.
The gen pop at large is not trained and we have all seen the shitshow that is mask wearing. I firmly believe it's ineffective for the generally healthy.
Put mask over mouth and nose.
Congrats, you are now trained. This isn't nuclear physics.
Put mask over mouth and nose.
Congrats, you are now trained. This isn't nuclear physics.
Mask wearing is not a USMLE. simple! In fact , it is simplier than MCAT.
btw, even non-medical school graduate can score 200 on USMLE. Congrats! You are now a resident at U of XYZ. :)
GilpinGuy
07-26-2020, 15:51
Put mask over mouth and nose.
Congrats, you are now trained. This isn't nuclear physics.
Tell that to this guy.
82427
How to wear a surgical mask (PRE COVID-19) from medical professionals.
https://youtu.be/1iJDXgVArtc
Nuclear and Partical Physics I
This guy just writes equations off of text book and talk.
https://youtu.be/UgPBUJRrYz8
hollohas
07-26-2020, 16:30
The Colorado Supreme Court ruled it's unlawful for county health departments to issue rules that carry fines decades ago.
Casey v. People 336 P.2d 308 (1959)
Colorado
"Only the legislature may declare an act to be a crime. "
"In our opinion the legislature cannot lawfully delegate its power of defining a crime to the district or county health departments."
https://law.justia.com/cases/colorado/supreme-court/1959/18822.html
Jeffco references the C.R.S. ( C.R.S. 25-1-516) in the written mandates that they claim allows them to make these rules punishable. I looked that CRS up and in lexis right in the footer it says it's unlawful. That's where I found the ruling.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200726/d50c7a56c1a335bf26eddcbc6c68f281.jpg
Bailey Guns
07-26-2020, 16:37
Put mask over mouth and nose.
Congrats, you are now trained. This isn't nuclear physics.
No wonder so few people properly wear a mask...because of nonsense like this. Everyone thinks they're an expert when generally they can't tell the difference between shit and Shinola.
Obviously you're not a trained medical professional. And the only training anyone gets from that post is how not to wear a mask. What about washing hands first? What about securing the bottom of the mask under your chin? What about ensuring there's a snug fit around your face? What about special considerations if you have facial hair? What about sanitizing your hands before removing the mask? What about all the other considerations required for properly wearing a mask?
Bailey Guns
07-26-2020, 16:39
Tell that to this guy.
82427
No shit. Or the lady next to him. Brutal was correct when he called the current "masking" fiasco a "shitshow". Because people are just generally clueless.
GilpinGuy
07-26-2020, 16:47
No shit. Or the lady next to him. Brutal was correct when he called the current "masking" fiasco a "shitshow". Because people are just generally clueless.
And really it's "face coverings" that are mandated, like a bandana at a minimum I suppose. When I see surgeons wearing bandana's in the operating room I'll believe they're effective. What a farce this all is.
Just wear your costume and shut up about it, plebe.
This is about conditioning subjects, not healthcare. Just look at the list of businesses that were determined to be "essential" vs. those that were determined to be utterly destroyed.
Walmart won't enforce its own rules on mask-wearing because it fears staff could be attacked by shoppers angry at being challenged (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/walmart-won-t-enforce-its-own-rules-on-mask-wearing-because-it-fears-staff-could-be-attacked-by-shoppers-angry-at-being-challenged/ar-BB17d7RQ)
Shoppers who refuse to wear a face mask to visit Walmart will still be served, as the company seeks to protect its staff from "a physical confrontation," according to a CNN report.
Walmart had announced that as of July 20, face masks would be compulsory for all but those whose medical conditions prevent it, as Business Insider's Hayley Peterson reported. At least 27 other retailers have recently required the same thing.
However, a training video seen by CNN tells management to let people who refuse to wear a mask "continue to shop."
Home Depot, Lowe's, CVS, and Walgreens have also said they'll serve customers without masks, CNN reported.
Walmart spokeswoman Delia Garcia said in a statement to Business Insider: "We know there may be situations that may not make it possible for everyone to wear a face covering." In those situations, "we will allow them to shop in our stores and clubs," she said.
"Our goal is to keep associates from a physical confrontation situation, and our ambassadors will be trained on those exceptions to help reduce friction for the shopper," she added.
Walmart won't enforce its own rules on mask-wearing because it fears staff could be attacked by shoppers angry at being challenged (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/walmart-won-t-enforce-its-own-rules-on-mask-wearing-because-it-fears-staff-could-be-attacked-by-shoppers-angry-at-being-challenged/ar-BB17d7RQ)
If only the so-called levels of government were so afraid, as they damn well should be.
GilpinGuy
07-26-2020, 21:08
If only the so-called levels of government were so afraid, as they damn well should be.
I'd love to see a few blocks of NYC bars and restaurants say "suck it" to deBlasio and Cuomo and just open up. They gonna arrest a few thousand people for eating and drinking while they allow thugs destroy the city? I think not, but nothing surprises me these days.
ETA: I know they are open to some extent with ridiculous restraints in place.
hollohas
07-26-2020, 21:10
And now tricounty and Jeffco madate masks when outside... idiots.
So is a health department official a Leo? Must you produce an ID for them so they can issue a fine? Or just ignore them like they don't exist?I've been wearing masks in the businesses that require them. The mask thing is complete bullshit, but I'm not going to get into a fight about it....inside.
But there's no damn way I'm wearing a mask outside anywhere. Fuck that noise and the Jeffco asshats that created the order. Mandating masks outside is where I'm drawing the line and is proof that the mask mandates are 100% bullshit and all about power and fear tactics.
Bailey Guns
07-26-2020, 21:15
If only the so-called levels of government were so afraid, as they damn well should be.
"Should be" in theory. In reality, what has ever happened to make them fear the people? While I am 100% opposed to all the "protests" and such going on now, the little commie fuckers have created massive amounts of uncertainty in pretty much all levels of government in many places. It's too bad people with solid conservative principles can't get organized like the commies have.
"Should be" in theory. In reality, what has ever happened to make them fear the people? While I am 100% opposed to all the "protests" and such going on now, the little commie fuckers have created massive amounts of uncertainty in pretty much all levels of government in many places. It's too bad people with solid conservative principles can't get organized like the commies have.
Every “law” which limits the people and their ability to respond to the overreach of “government” threats, be it Gun control, money control, etc., is in reaction to something which has happened or is feared to happen. In short, every law which is not in focus of the common good and with clear, rational implications of necessity (Mr Robinson’s word of the day) is a fear-based reaction to the people, and not of the people. The former allows a propaganda based effort via the controlled media to mimic the latter.
Well yeah they're afraid that people are going to be fucking stupid and not follow the public distancing to try to limit the spread of the virus that has killed 1800 Coloradans in 4 months.
Well yeah they're afraid that people are going to be fucking stupid and not follow the public distancing to try to limit the spread of the virus that has killed 1800 Coloradans in 4 months.
1800 out of 5.8 million? Statistically insignigicant.
We don't even wear masks in the state building i work in.
Little Dutch
07-26-2020, 23:08
I was one of two people without a face covering in king soopers tonight. People actually engaged me. Friendly conversations, a lady asked me to retrieve an item from the top shelf, a few asked about my son's age, etc. One store employee stopped to tell me son they didn't have any cookies out (free cookie bin has been removed apparently), but she'd get him one.
If all it takes is not wearing a face covering to invoke this kind of "fear" and friendly interactions, I think everyone should walk around without one.
Well yeah they're afraid that people are going to be fucking stupid and not follow the public distancing to try to limit the spread of the virus that has killed 1800 Coloradans in 4 months.
950 of which were over 80+ years of age. Another 420 were 70-79.
This is what the media wants us to pay attention to:
82430
This is what they don't want you to pay attention to:
82431
Little Dutch
07-26-2020, 23:16
Face coverings are dehumanizing. I actually think people were weirdly friendly solely because they could actually see me. Not just a piece of cloth.
Put mask over mouth and nose.
Congrats, you are now trained. This isn't nuclear physics.
OK Boomer.
At least, that's what you sound like right now.
I said "properly." If you don't follow proper donning and doffing procedures and hand washing, and not reuse a contaminated mask, it's improper. If it's not worn or fitted correctly, it's improper.
BREATHER
07-27-2020, 04:48
I was in a K Soopers in Parker, there was a sign at the entrance that said masks to be worn by "local ordinance" What fucking "ordinance" would that be ????
thedave1164
07-27-2020, 04:53
I was in a K Soopers in Parker, there was a sign at the entrance that said masks to be worn by "local ordinance" What fucking "ordinance" would that be ????
I haven't been to KS in a while, but my wife went yesterday, sign at the door but no one said anything to her, she said there were a few others without a mask as well.
I play like a good little sheep and wear my mask for that deadly thirty foot journey. You know, that walk from the front of the restaurant to your table. Outside- perfectly safe. At your table, indoors around strangers inhaling recirculated air- perfectly safe. It?s that deadly walk between the two safe zones that could get you killed.
thedave1164
07-27-2020, 05:53
I play like a good little sheep and wear my mask for that deadly thirty foot journey. You know, that walk from the front of the restaurant to your table. Outside- perfectly safe. At your table, indoors around strangers inhaling recirculated air- perfectly safe. It?s that deadly walk between the two safe zones that could get you killed.
LOL, yep
BTW the wife and I went to the Salt Grass Steakhouse in Parker for our anniversary last month, no masks, nothing said, we were able to sit down and enjoy our meal, the staff were awesome.
OK Boomer.
At least, that's what you sound like right now.
I said "properly." If you don't follow proper donning and doffing procedures and hand washing, and not reuse a contaminated mask, it's improper. If it's not worn or fitted correctly, it's improper.
I didn't realize that people around here needed to be taught to wash their hands, too.
Since we're going down that route, you should also wash your hands after you scrape the shit out from between your cheeks.
thedave1164
07-27-2020, 06:37
Well I am guessing this thread will be getting locked, it was good while it lasted :D
buffalobo
07-27-2020, 07:15
OK Boomer.
At least, that's what you sound like right now.
I said "properly." If you don't follow proper donning and doffing procedures and hand washing, and not reuse a contaminated mask, it's improper. If it's not worn or fitted correctly, it's improper.
I didn't realize that people around here needed to be taught to wash their hands, too.
Since we're going down that route, you should also wash your hands after you scrape the shit out from between your cheeks.If you guys want to sit around and insult each other I can provide you a break from the site to free up some time for your Jr high reprise.
Those face masks with breathing valves? They aren't effective, doctors say (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/those-face-masks-with-breathing-valves-they-aren-t-effective-doctors-say/ar-BB17727P)
Since the proposed goal is to wear masks to protect others, it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. I've been talking about it for months.
...yet bandanas are still suggested. [facepalm]
Makes for great medical theater for a political agenda.
Bailey Guns
07-27-2020, 15:05
I'm just going to identify as a person wearing a mask. That way everyone's happy.
BPTactical
07-27-2020, 17:11
Dear Governor Polis,
Go suck a dick
errr, wait.........nvm
SideShow Bob
07-27-2020, 17:31
I didn't realize that people around here needed to be taught to wash their hands, too.
Since we're going down that route, you should also wash your hands after you scrape the shit out from between your cheeks.
To quote Redd Foxx : ?You Got To Wash Your Ass?...............
https://youtu.be/uldt6Y-CE3s
Dear Governor Polis,
Go suck a dick
errr, wait.........nvm
ANOTHER one?
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