View Full Version : Government School and Home Schooling
GilpinGuy
08-05-2020, 01:29
So we got the email today that read that there will be no "in person learning" at our local government school until further notice. It will be "home learning" instead. I love how they put it. "Home learning". I guess "home schooling" was taken.
After doing the total horseshit make believe of "home learning" in the spring, and the fact that his excellency the governor hasn't deemed me "essential" enough to go back to work, real home schooling is the obvious choice. We're not 100% in on this yet, but man with the way things are going, I don't see a way around it. We'll make ends meet somehow.
Who home schools and where should someone start as far as resources to begin? My youngest is 7 (2nd grade) and the oldest is 15 (10th grade). Just really getting serious about this today, so any info would be awesome. I know there are some on here that home school. Thanks.
(Man, I deleted a TON of ranting, cursing and blowing off steam)
I have a friend whos a teacher, let me reach out to her and see what resources she has to give. I also seem to remember a feee online school commercial i saw recently, I will try to find it again.
hurley842002
08-05-2020, 05:39
Good luck in your quest Gilpin, things are trending that way here as well, fortunately my wife isn?t working (COVID threw a wrench in that plan). I really worry for my kids education, my wife isn?t a teacher, and if I?m being honest, kind of a pushover when it comes to the boys. Guess we will see what happens.
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We are in the same boat. The last part of last year was a complete joke and my boys did not learn anything new. At best, they maintained what they had already learned. My wife and i looked at this very carefully and have made the decision to formally home school. I saw this decision coming for a long time. We are fortunate that we have many family friends/neighbors who already do it, and my wife does not work.
In addition to the "home learning" joke, I am extremely concerned with the public school curriculum and have just this week read about CO districts "rewriting" the history components. In my opinion, Home Schooling gives the kids a significantly higher quality education, reinforced by test results. It also allows us to integrate a christian perspective into the education plan.
Message me if you want to discuss or get details on the program that we chose. Good luck on what you chose. I think that the public system is collapsing and there is going to be a massive education gap in the future that will impact all aspects of the future USA.
We haven't home schooled, but going through the fiasco of the end of okay year showed me that without a strict schedule, things tend to really fall apart. For everyone, not just the kids.
Beware that almost all, if not all, reputable homeschooling programs are sold out and back ordered.
Based on extensive research including the curricula, methods, and personal experiences of both others and my wife (who was homeschooled from 6-12th grade), the two "best" right now are:
1) Memoria Press
2) The Good and The Beautiful
Look into: https://hslda.org/post/how-to-comply-with-colorado-s-homeschool-law
You can download the entire 2nd level The Good and the Beautiful Language Arts books on PDF: https://www.goodandbeautiful.com/free-downloads/language-arts-level-2/
There's plenty on YT to put together the other courses while you wait on your books to arrive for whatever actual company you go with.
As for the 15 year old, again, YT has a wealth of knowledge and you will just need to either bite the bullet on a course or ad hoc it in the interim.
thedave1164
08-05-2020, 07:57
HSLDA is a good resource and worth supporting
homeschooling can be as conventional or unconventional as you decide to make it.
Ours is somewhat structured, we use a program called ACE, it is a Christian based curriculum.
Some people use many different bits and pieces .
I would wager there is a local homeschool group in your area as well, they can also be a great resource.
Great-Kazoo
08-05-2020, 08:07
while not a parent any longer of school age kids. Down here the people with kids are forming, or have formed somewhat of a home schooling co-op.
Fortunately a reasonable portion of them have been home schooling, for a few years. Now assisting those in the area, newer to it.
See if there's something like that near you.
If not the members here who do home school, are not novices and hopefully help when and if you have issues.
Good luck. I would ask those who are in the same position as your family. What has the county & state said about school tax reimbursement? Or credits applied for every month not in school.
colorider
08-05-2020, 08:58
The last thing the schools are interested in is a quality education for our kids. It’s appalling. If fully disgusted with Jeffco and their so called “hybrid” plan. It’s a fucking joke. Planned to fail. They have ZERO interest in the kids going back to a classroom and are just going through the steps. My son is starting high school and won’t even have his schedule until the 19th. School starts on the 24th. No mention if he will even be able to see where the fuck to go before “in school learning” starts. Give me a break.
The last thing the schools are interested in is a quality education for our kids. It’s appalling. If fully disgusted with Jeffco and their so called “hybrid” plan. It’s a fucking joke. Planned to fail. They have ZERO interest in the kids going back to a classroom and are just going through the steps. My son is starting high school and won’t even have his schedule until the 19th. School starts on the 24th. No mention if he will even be able to see where the fuck to go before “in school learning” starts. Give me a break.
They've never been interested in a quality education.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeEWPbTad_Q
https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences/applied-and-social-sciences-magazines/seven-lesson-schoolteacher
Both the video and link are featuring and/or written by John Taylor Gatto. He was named New York City Teacher of the Year in 1989, 1990, and 1991, and New York State Teacher of the Year in 1991. He then quit and set about to expose the travesty that is modern education.
Just think of all the money we'll be saving when they reduce the education item on our property taxes [ROFL2]
beast556
08-05-2020, 09:41
we just got the news last night, SUCKS big time. My wife is out of a job now and things are gonna get real tough for us. Pretty sure we will be selling our house and leaving colorado.
JohnnyDrama
08-05-2020, 09:45
I've been thinking about this a lot recently as well. I really feel bad for the kids as they will likely be the biggest losers. However, I think children have an opportunity to learn more by working with their parents than they do at a public school. The resources CS1983 put up look really good. "The Good and the Beautiful" looks better than anything I've seen in a public school for language arts. For what it is worth, the Engage New York math curriculum is available on line as well. You can preview the lessons and find one method that works and go with it. You don't have to go through the whole thing. That is what my daughter's teachers did.
These are interesting times. I can see the education system eating itself. Here is a tidbit for y'all.
Effective Sept. 1, 2018, educators endorsed in elementary, English, math, science and/or social studies seeking (or any middle level endorsement) to renew their professional license must complete or demonstrate completion of professional development activities equivalent to 45 clock/contact hours or three (3) semester hours in Culturally and Linguistically Diverse (CLD) education that meets or exceeds the standards outlined in section 5.12-5.15 of 1 CCR 301-37. This requirement must only be completed once during the term of the educator's career. To find out more about these requirements, if and how they apply to you and what you'll need to do by when, visit the English Learner PD Requirements Information for Educators page.
This is from the CDE webpage. Much of this is geared toward exposing teachers (especially the new ones) to the disparity of education systems in the U.S. and the foundation of "privilege and oppression" (enculturation) upon which our public education system was built.
http://youtu.be/1bBOG-tFLHk
Aloha_Shooter
08-05-2020, 14:46
I've been on a big kick lately at work telling people to use the principles of effects-based operations or systems engineering. Figure out the effect you want then work backwards to determine what you need to do to get there. In terms of education, what do you want your kids to know at the end of the year? Are you prepping them to go to college? trade school? "find themselves"? Work out the curriculum from that. If said kid isn't a senior in high school then work out the plan for the years to get to the point you want them to be.
I would want a 17-year-old or 18-year-old kid to know the principles of algebra and trigonometry (and I'd really prefer they at least understand the principles behind first year calculus), be well versed in US history and at least familiar with the major events in Europe and Asia that influenced US history, familiar with basic science (biology, chemistry, physics, elementary statistics), and have had exposure to the first principles of art and music. S/he should also be familiar with basic shop tools and how to (safely) use them for projects around the house. Reading and writing using proper grammar at a (1970s) college freshman level. They don't have to like Shakespeare (I never did) but they should know why they like what they do -- what archetypes and the hero's journey are.
Zundfolge
08-05-2020, 15:10
I've been on a big kick lately at work telling people to use the principles of effects-based operations or systems engineering. Figure out the effect you want then work backwards to determine what you need to do to get there. In terms of education, what do you want your kids to know at the end of the year? Are you prepping them to go to college? trade school? "find themselves"? Work out the curriculum from that. If said kid isn't a senior in high school then work out the plan for the years to get to the point you want them to be.
I would want a 17-year-old or 18-year-old kid to know the principles of algebra and trigonometry (and I'd really prefer they at least understand the principles behind first year calculus), be well versed in US history and at least familiar with the major events in Europe and Asia that influenced US history, familiar with basic science (biology, chemistry, physics, elementary statistics), and have had exposure to the first principles of art and music. S/he should also be familiar with basic shop tools and how to (safely) use them for projects around the house. Reading and writing using proper grammar at a (1970s) college freshman level. They don't have to like Shakespeare (I never did) but they should know why they like what they do -- what archetypes and the hero's journey are.
In addition to those things (an excellent list BTW) I would want them to have a basic familiarity with Aristotle, St Thomas Aquinas, John Locke, Adam Smith, and a few other philosophical thinkers. I want them to understand critical thinking, logic and basic economics (so add Thomas Sowell here) because those are severely lacking in our current educational paradigms and part of the reason we're flinging headlong into the abyss.
We homeschooled our kids at various times. Our oldest finished his AA at age 18. His Community College tuition was paid for by the Aurora Public Schools system while he homeschooled through high school. My middle has his masters and works at a University. Our youngest is still finding their way but finished the welding and diesel mechanic program at the local VoTech. Still waiting to see where they end up. At least GK talked them out of becoming a tattoo artist.[panic]
HSLDA is worth it for the legal representation and their lobby efforts for homeschoolers throughout the country. Good for legal information both nationally and for Colorado specifically.
Based on our experience (which is now more than ten years old) I would avoid the Colorado statewide homeschool group: CHEC https://chec.org/community/homeschool-groups/
For curriculum, two resources:
https://www.rainbowresource.com/
https://www.sonlight.com/
There used to be homeschool curriculum fairs every year. They were normally held at a hotel convention center over a weekend. I have no idea if those are still being held, but I imagine in the era of COVID, probably not.
Much of our experience was pre-Internet ubiquity and much of the community was hosted on sonlight resource boards. Look for a local homeschool co-op. Two of our kids went to the co-op predecessor of JeffCo charter school Two Roads (https://tworoads.jeffcopublicschools.org/) It was funded partially by JeffCo but run by the parents. Now it is a menu driven program where you can treat it like a traditional full-time charter school or a supplementary home school program. Many of the co-ops will be run out of a local church. It may take you a while to find one you are most comfortable in, where your kids will get the type of experience you are looking for. Here is a local group I found in a quick search: https://rockymountaineducationconnection.com/ I know nothing about them, so take it with a grain of salt.
For us, homeschooling was about finding which methods worked best with each of our very different children. Because of the size of any public school system, they are very restricted in how they can tailor education to any one student. As a homeschooler, you will know your kids, how they learn, their limits, when, where, and how to push them, and when to give them a break. Most importantly, you love your kids and care more about their individual futures than any of the best and most dedicated teachers found in any government school. Most government school employees do not care if your kids end up living in your basement till they are 35 years old. You are motivated to have your children succeed in ways that no teacher would even think about.
One of the best things I loved about homeschooing was the ability to take our kids to places where they weren't reading a book or watching a video about something, but being "in the room where it happened." We traveled off season and altered lesson plans in every subject to tie into where we were going and what they were experiencing. Make education work for your kids and it will work for you.
Good luck. Enjoy. Be safe.
Basic personal accounting should be on the list, and higher than most.
Basic personal accounting should be on the list, and higher than most.
Yep. I took "Personal Finance" in either my Sophomore or Junior year of HS.
Principles of art and music?
The only principle is enjoyment by the beholder.
Principles of art and music?
The only principle is enjoyment by the beholder.
No. Music imbues emotions and influences thought. Same with Art.
Music directly imitates the passions or states of the soul...when one listens to music that imitates a certain passion, he becomes imbued withthe same passion; and if over a long time he habitually listens to music that rouses ignoble passions, his whole character will be shaped to an ignoble form. - Aristotle, Ref: https://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-deception-music_philosophers_culture_plato#!
Why do you think we as a culture have slid so far? the music which our parents and grandparents were warned about by their parents is positively TAME compared to some stuff today.
Any musical innovation is full of danger to the whole state, and ought to be prohibited. When modes of music change, the fundamental laws of the state always change with them. - Plato; Ibid.
To claim the only principle is enjoyment by the beholder smacks of an extreme ignorance of music itself, which by said ignorance actually disallows true enjoyment.
Can one imagine an Appalachian murder ballad set in a modern major key? The exuberance of spring in a jig or reel set in a minor key? Of course not. It would grate upon the nerves, mind, and soul. It would be inherently unprincipled and ultimately, discordant.
Here's a site which talks about the 4 Classical temperaments and their relation to the classical modes of music (scroll down for the chart):
https://www.fisheaters.com/fourtemperaments.html
If this is confusing or new, this series of articles by Fr. Christian Kappes shed better light on how these things relate to the natural and supernatural (spiritual life), and how they can be used or abused:
https://www.academia.edu/5271941/The_Four_Temperaments
That Music and Art HAVE principles is exactly why "SuperFunRockBand Church" is a steaming pile of spiritual dog shit: devoid of art which *raises the heart and soul to God*, the music sucks, and it's all about "enjoyment". Guess what? Natural life isn't that way and NEITHER IS the spiritual life, as evidenced by not only thousands of years of experience, but also Scripture itself.
All of this is easily transferable to the culture at large, and why we see a big pile of steaming poop. Nothing is good. Nothing is beautiful. Nothing is principled. Nothing is true. It's all an illusion brought about by the humanist fantasies of a bunch of folks who set about to fabricate a reality from the wreckage of the societies they would wreck to rip away the building materials. And then we wonder why nothing fits? No, friend. Not at all.
------
The Good and The Beautiful YT channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYTAdAxpZaKYneFgxFw_T1Q
Aloha_Shooter
08-06-2020, 11:51
Basic personal accounting should be on the list, and higher than most.
Yep. I took "Personal Finance" in either my Sophomore or Junior year of HS.
I didn't list personal finance solely because I think that starts earlier. Personally, I think any boy/girl should know how to balance a checkbook, do home inventory, and manage their funds by 8th grade (if not 6th). I used to stretch my bus and haircut money from my parents so I had money for comics -- in retrospect, I'm sure they knew what I was doing (kind of hard to miss the hair going from short cut to shaggy mess over 4 weeks and then cycle back instead of staying closely groomed every 2 weeks) but they figured I was learning to manage my funds.
Zundfolge
08-06-2020, 12:08
No. Music imbues emotions and influences thought. Same with Art.
There are also practical reasons to teach Music Theory in that it enhance one's ability to learn languages and mathematics.
There are also practical reasons to teach Music Theory in that it enhance one's ability to learn languages and mathematics.
Yes, though the unfortunate compartmentalization of all education has reduced the effectiveness of cohesive studies. We go from box to box, instead of seeing the beautiful whole within the larger boundaries.
My oldest brother completed his PhD in Educational Leadership with a dissertation about the improvement of music students in math and science, vs those who did not take music.
I didn't list personal finance solely because I think that starts earlier. Personally, I think any boy/girl should know how to balance a checkbook, do home inventory, and manage their funds by 8th grade (if not 6th). I used to stretch my bus and haircut money from my parents so I had money for comics -- in retrospect, I'm sure they knew what I was doing (kind of hard to miss the hair going from short cut to shaggy mess over 4 weeks and then cycle back instead of staying closely groomed every 2 weeks) but they figured I was learning to manage my funds.
I went without lunch, and ate the scraps from others, for my entire 6th grade year to save enough to buy a broadsword from a neighborhood kid. Lol
I didn't list personal finance solely because I think that starts earlier. Personally, I think any boy/girl should know how to balance a checkbook, do home inventory, and manage their funds by 8th grade (if not 6th). I used to stretch my bus and haircut money from my parents so I had money for comics -- in retrospect, I'm sure they knew what I was doing (kind of hard to miss the hair going from short cut to shaggy mess over 4 weeks and then cycle back instead of staying closely groomed every 2 weeks) but they figured I was learning to manage my funds.
Those are the kinds of assumptions that have been failing people for centuries.
Personal finance goes further than saving your lunch money.
I didn't get an 'allowance'. I was expected to do chores as a responsible contribution to the household. (And in hindsight my parents couldn't afford it)
If I wanted something, I had to earn it. I had summer jobs since 6th grade and was on W-2 food service jobs when allowed by state govt. at 13.
Fundamentals and work ethic begins at home, but 'personal finance' in school goes much further.
They teach sex Ed every few years in school. I think I took some form of sex Ed at least four different times. Some sort of personal household and maybe very basic business accounting principles should be taught EVERY year. Even if just for a semester.
Great-Kazoo
08-06-2020, 14:21
They teach sex Ed every few years in school. I think I took some form of sex Ed at least four different times. Some sort of personal household and maybe very basic business accounting principles should be taught EVERY year. Even if just for a semester.
Don't forget Home Economics. Can't cook if you don't know how. Although, there's who knows how many people who only know how to use a microwave.
Personal finance goes further than saving your lunch money.
I didn't get an 'allowance'. I was expected to do chores as a responsible contribution to the household. (And in hindsight my parents couldn't afford it)
If I wanted something, I had to earn it. I had summer jobs since 6th grade and was on W-2 food service jobs when allowed by state govt. at 13.
Fundamentals and work ethic begins at home, but 'personal finance' in school goes much further.
Yes, of course, but the larger driving point is that kids understand such things inherently and should be taught how to channel those things later.
Guess I should have mentioned picking up cigarette butts in people's yards, mowing lawns, odd jobs, etc.
The reality of budgeting is actually so strict, that even many on here who think they are doing well actually SUCK. Vehicle(s) not paid off? you suck. Credit card debt? you suck. Etc.
I guarantee Dave Ramsey would howl with sad laughter at many. Most people who think they have a good skill with budgeting/personal finance are no better than high functioning alcoholics or coke heads. The only difference is their addiction: materialism.
They teach sex Ed every few years in school. I think I took some form of sex Ed at least four different times. Some sort of personal household and maybe very basic business accounting principles should be taught EVERY year. Even if just for a semester.
My favorite "sex Ed" class came in my Jr year of high school. The Xaverian brother teaching the class, being young and having taken a vow of celibacy, convinced us all of him being a qualified subject matter expert.
Very few of the government school teachers are experts in the subject they are teaching. Much of what is taught in the Ed programs in public universities is pedagogy. Applicable to managing classrooms and serving the institutions of learning. Whatever motivation a young teacher has to educate students is quickly wrung out of them and they become another dues paying member of the union, following the curriculum provided by the Board of Ed. Imagine parents being required to sign a permission slip to allow students to read Fahrenheit 451. Irony is never lost when observing the actions of government employees.
Aloha_Shooter
08-06-2020, 22:05
Those are the kinds of assumptions that have been failing people for centuries.
What assumptions? I didn't say kids did know those things, I said they should.
GilpinGuy
08-06-2020, 23:01
Thanks for the feedback everyone! I've been rather busy focusing on a potential move out of CO so I apologize for not responding sooner.
I've heard about this on the Tom Woods podcast for quite a while and just started looking into it:
Ron Paul Curriculum (https://www.ronpaulcurriculum.com/public/main.cfm)
Anyone have any experience with this?
What assumptions? I didn't say kids did know those things, I said they should.
I meant the assumption that personal finance starts earlier. I don't think it ever starts in school. I never had anything like that.
Aloha_Shooter
08-07-2020, 07:30
Why does personal finance have to start in school? Hell, the personal example I cited came from the way I managed haircut and bus money from my parents. Again, a statement, not an assumption. Maybe the bad assumption I had was that people on this board read and understood English.
Did your parents explain how investing in the stock markets works via a multi-month project tracking companies that you selected?
That's the point. You assume based off your experience, but not everyone is the same and has the same experiences. If we all knew everything we wouldn't need school at all right? It should be required in school, because as we know, not every parent does, or is even capable, of teaching all subjects. Just trying to add to the list. I wasn't trying to say that you were the reason that schools are bad. Just that when we assume people will do things, we're often disappointed.
Even if you're not religious, there are certain religious-based homeschooling groups that may help bridge some of the gaps, the biggest of which is group outings and socializing and developing curriculum. On a side note, it is conservative leaning. It also may help offset some of the time requirement from the parents. I wouldn't know any of the organizations where you are, but occasionally large churches undertake it, making the social end while they join with larger agencies for the curriculum and some classroom education. Of course, it wouldn't be completely free.
PS: I don't consider myself religious but have no issue with my kids attending one. It's far better than what public school does, or in many cases, what I have time to do.
Great-Kazoo
08-07-2020, 12:50
Even if you're not religious, there are certain religious-based homeschooling groups that may help bridge some of the gaps, the biggest of which is group outings and socializing and developing curriculum. On a side note, it is conservative leaning. It also may help offset some of the time requirement from the parents. I wouldn't know any of the organizations where you are, but occasionally large churches undertake it, making the social end while they join with larger agencies for the curriculum and some classroom education. Of course, it wouldn't be completely free.
PS: I don't consider myself religious but have no issue with my kids attending one. It's far better than what public school does, or in many cases, what I have time to do.
Amen to that.
clodhopper
08-07-2020, 13:26
That's the point. You assume based off your experience, but not everyone is the same and has the same experiences. If we all knew everything we wouldn't need school at all right? It should be required in school, because as we know, not every parent does, or is even capable, of teaching all subjects. Just trying to add to the list. I wasn't trying to say that you were the reason that schools are bad. Just that when we assume people will do things, we're often disappointed.
The problem we face now is a full generation of parents have passed through the public system and never had personal finance training, are wholly incompetent with their own lives and have no chance of educating their kids at home. The solution is to reintroduce it to the school system so the kids have a chance to learn it somewhere. Unfortunately, most of the people in charge of schools feel there is no need to learn these type of self sufficiency topics. I need not go on about why that is.
jreifsch80
08-07-2020, 13:27
Did your parents explain how investing in the stock markets works via a multi-month project tracking companies that you selected?
My wife got that though her dad is a phd economist who taught at columbia and later at one of the California universities lol
The problem we face now is a full generation of parents have passed through the public system and never had personal finance training, are wholly incompetent with their own lives and have no chance of educating their kids at home. The solution is to reintroduce it to the school system so the kids have a chance to learn it somewhere. Unfortunately, most of the people in charge of schools feel there is no need to learn these type of self sufficiency topics. I need not go on about why that is.
That's a better way of what I was trying to say.
The problem we face now is a full generation of parents have passed through the public system and never had personal finance training, are wholly incompetent with their own lives and have no chance of educating their kids at home. The solution is to reintroduce it to the school system so the kids have a chance to learn it somewhere. Unfortunately, most of the people in charge of schools feel there is no need to learn these type of self sufficiency topics. I need not go on about why that is.
[word]
Aloha_Shooter
08-07-2020, 22:30
That's the point. You assume based off your experience, but not everyone is the same and has the same experiences. If we all knew everything we wouldn't need school at all right? It should be required in school, because as we know, not every parent does, or is even capable, of teaching all subjects. Just trying to add to the list. I wasn't trying to say that you were the reason that schools are bad. Just that when we assume people will do things, we're often disappointed.
You keep misunderstanding plain English. I wasn't assuming anything, I was saying they should learn those things at an earlier age. You can argue that's judgmental but you keep saying I'm assuming something when I'm not. I didn't even say or imply you were accusing me of anything about schools being bad. Hell, I went to both public and private schools, I make no assumptions about what should be required in school. What I gave was my opinion on what a 17-year-old or 18-year-old ought to know as a target point for building a curriculum for home schooling.
We settled to be talking past each other a bit. Oh well, no big deal.
GilpinGuy
08-07-2020, 23:29
So no opinions on the Ron Paul Home Schooling curriculum?
Enough [handbags]
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