View Full Version : Electrical - wattage tolerances on switches, how close is too close?
Right now, I have 9x can lights in the kitchen, they are costco / luminus retrofit cans that are nice and bright but use 22.5W each. 3-4 are now burned out or are otherwise dead. I plan to pull them all out (all 9) and replace them, using the good ones elsewhere in the house, and replacing them with "thin LED" style 6" can lights. I'd also like to replace the dimmer/switch on the wall with a "smart" dimmer switch. I have some Zooz switches already ready for this. Trying to find matching LEDs with smart dimmers that don't cause flicker or other issues was a huge problem last time and basically impossible anyway with a 200+ watt requirement, but that was years ago.
So... zooz says the Zen27 s2 switch should probably work well with all lights including the cheapo "Ensenior" or "amico" thin LEDs off amazon. The 6" models say they use 12W. 12x9 = 108w. The Zen27 S2 says it supports 100W LED or 300W incandescent. Is this a deal breaker, or within "close enough" range?
The "s1" zen22 switch supports up to 150W LED, but it's much less compatible, so that's my backup option, but I'm not optimistic.
Electrical guys, any insight? I'm assuming formal advice is always to stay within spec, just wondering if that is "real world" advice too...?
https://www.support.getzooz.com/kb/article/274-zen27-s2-dimmer-specs/
I suppose I'd also take any advice on the cans too. We had thin cans (not sure what model) put into a room that was too dark, and they work great. If that's a stupid idea, I could do something else.
These are what I was looking at: https://www.amazon.com/Ensenior-Ultra-Thin-Can-Killer-Downlight-Brightness/dp/B08BK34X4H
Grant H.
08-26-2020, 22:27
I've done a lot of the thin LED's that you are talking about, and I haven't had a problem with them yet.
As for the current rating, the de-rating of the switch for LED's is based on the assumed high in-rush current of the drivers. It's an insurance/liability issue if you over drive it, so, go in with your eyes open.
However, 108 watts instead of 100 watts, when it is spec'd to 300W with incandescent bulbs, I wouldn't be too worried about it. In rush current is an extremely short period of time.
I've had a fair share of failure issues with Zooz switches. I'm not buying any more. Sticking with Inovelli going forward.
Another option is Lutron but you'll have to run their hub as well as whatever your other HA hub might be. I've been using the Lutron Pro2 with Hubitat and it's rock solid. Had to get the Lutron hub when Wink went sideways and I switched over to hubitat.
I've been using Meross smart switches and have been really happy with them. I haven't needed a hub for them.
ok so it sounds like 108w won't probably burn down the house, so that's good to know :)
As for switches, I've used a ton of different brands at this point. I'm not sure I'd say any of them are super reliable. They work great until they don't. The GE / jasco have probably been the most reliable for me, but even then I've had at least 2 of those go bad. So at this point I just make sure I have a spare or two on hand and hope that they continue to get better each generation (not sure this is happening). Too many standards and options out there. I'm trying to stay away from wifi-only just because there's already so much interference from all the various networks and things I have going on here. High price to pay to be a bleeding edge gadget nerd I guess.
Grant H.
08-27-2020, 20:06
Wifi only sounds like a better solution than Z-wave to me, but I don't have any home automation, so I can't really comment. I played with Zigbee and Zwave a decade ago, when I was working at a FHSS 900mhz radio manufacturer. At the time, Zwave carried a lot of security risks, so hopefully most of those have been handled.
If you are having wifi interference from multiple networks in your house, I would suggest that you look into properly managed wifi gear (Unifi, cnPilot, Meraki, etc). If it is interference from your neighbors, that's a harder issue to over come.
Wifi only sounds like a better solution than Z-wave to me, but I don't have any home automation, so I can't really comment. I played with Zigbee and Zwave a decade ago, when I was working at a FHSS 900mhz radio manufacturer. At the time, Zwave carried a lot of security risks, so hopefully most of those have been handled.
If you are having wifi interference from multiple networks in your house, I would suggest that you look into properly managed wifi gear (Unifi, cnPilot, Meraki, etc). If it is interference from your neighbors, that's a harder issue to over come.
I regularly look at the traffic around me and have moved my network to more favorable frequencies often. There's a free WiFi Analyzer app on the Microsoft Store that can make suggestions for reduced interference. There are also free apps for Android and Apple.
Wifi only sounds like a better solution than Z-wave to me, but I don't have any home automation, so I can't really comment. I played with Zigbee and Zwave a decade ago, when I was working at a FHSS 900mhz radio manufacturer. At the time, Zwave carried a lot of security risks, so hopefully most of those have been handled.
If you are having wifi interference from multiple networks in your house, I would suggest that you look into properly managed wifi gear (Unifi, cnPilot, Meraki, etc). If it is interference from your neighbors, that's a harder issue to over come.
WiFi is ok but doesn't scale. Not great for battery powered use. Think a sensor on every door and window and all those battery changes. zigbee (or even Z-wave) have tremendous battery life.
With WiFi you're also dependent on an app that you hope has support with GH or Alexa, and then you may be depending on the cloud (internet) and be unable to control locally.
I've had a fair share of failure issues with Zooz switches. I'm not buying any more. Sticking with Inovelli going forward.
Another option is Lutron but you'll have to run their hub as well as whatever your other HA hub might be. I've been using the Lutron Pro2 with Hubitat and it's rock solid. Had to get the Lutron hub when Wink went sideways and I switched over to hubitat.
Really? I've got about a dozen or so that I've been running for many years and never had a single Zooz fail me or give me an ounce of issues. I can't say the same for other brands but that has been the one constant of all of my Z-Wave switches.
ok so it sounds like 108w won't probably burn down the house, so that's good to know :)
As for switches, I've used a ton of different brands at this point. I'm not sure I'd say any of them are super reliable. They work great until they don't. The GE / jasco have probably been the most reliable for me, but even then I've had at least 2 of those go bad. So at this point I just make sure I have a spare or two on hand and hope that they continue to get better each generation (not sure this is happening). Too many standards and options out there. I'm trying to stay away from wifi-only just because there's already so much interference from all the various networks and things I have going on here. High price to pay to be a bleeding edge gadget nerd I guess.
Within 10% you should be fine. As was already stated people think that LED's use much less energy which is true once they're on but at start-up they actually use a surprising amount that most of these switches aren't able to handle. Granted, it's a super brief load but this will wear on the switch components over time until... poof! No more light.
It's funny that you say you've had good luck with the GE/Jasco because this has been the least reliable of all of my smart switch brands over the years. It seems as though they tend to fail just months outside of the warranty too. This is with a load WELL under the rated and with plenty of room inside the box and cooling fins not removed as well. Just not sure what the deal is but I gave up on that brand entirely years ago and it's nothing but Zooz for me from here on out. I've got about a half dozen new ones I need to make the time to install in lesser used areas of the house.
Wifi only sounds like a better solution than Z-wave to me, but I don't have any home automation, so I can't really comment. I played with Zigbee and Zwave a decade ago, when I was working at a FHSS 900mhz radio manufacturer. At the time, Zwave carried a lot of security risks, so hopefully most of those have been handled.
If you are having wifi interference from multiple networks in your house, I would suggest that you look into properly managed wifi gear (Unifi, cnPilot, Meraki, etc). If it is interference from your neighbors, that's a harder issue to over come.
WiFi sounds like the more universal solution but it's actually a lot worse for many reasons. I chose Z-Wave about 15 years ago and I've never regretted that situation. It's the most universal smart home communication protocol and has withstood the test of time when other larger names have fallen by the wayside. It doesn't occupy my already-clogged up 2.4Ghz WiFi band (hell, even the microwaves like to get in on this area) and has better battery life. You can talk about networked management but I've got triple digit smart home automatic devices. That's a lot of management when I can simply have a controller do it all for me and get better battery life and performance. My VeraPlus controller works great and the VeraLite I had before that was also great for the decade I used it. If you're considering going smart home I'd highly recommend staying away from the WiFi space and getting something that was designed specifically for that use.
Yep. I'm sure there's a safety factor built in to the switch rating. My guess is that switch would probably handle 50% more than it's rating before you killed yourself in a fire so that 8% over wouldn't bother me.
WiFi sounds like the more universal solution but it's actually a lot worse for many reasons. I chose Z-Wave about 15 years ago and I've never regretted that situation. It's the most universal smart home communication protocol and has withstood the test of time when other larger names have fallen by the wayside. It doesn't occupy my already-clogged up 2.4Ghz WiFi band (hell, even the microwaves like to get in on this area) and has better battery life. You can talk about networked management but I've got triple digit smart home automatic devices. That's a lot of management when I can simply have a controller do it all for me and get better battery life and performance. My VeraPlus controller works great and the VeraLite I had before that was also great for the decade I used it. If you're considering going smart home I'd highly recommend staying away from the WiFi space and getting something that was designed specifically for that use.
This is pretty much my experience, and I'm a bit frustrated to see so many new devices this year be focused on wifi / custom apps. Great that they work with Google/Alexa, etc. but I really just want something that works quickly, locally, with my hub instead of relying on wifi and the cloud. zwave/zwave+ has been pretty good to me in general. I was thinking about putting in my first zigbee device though last week (looking to automate a pullchain ceiling fan with no wall switch with that hampton bay wink remote that everyone seems to like)...
This is pretty much my experience, and I'm a bit frustrated to see so many new devices this year be focused on wifi / custom apps. Great that they work with Google/Alexa, etc. but I really just want something that works quickly, locally, with my hub instead of relying on wifi and the cloud. zwave/zwave+ has been pretty good to me in general. I was thinking about putting in my first zigbee device though last week (looking to automate a pullchain ceiling fan with no wall switch with that hampton bay wink remote that everyone seems to like)...
Z-wave and zigbee are great but can be problematic without a good solid mesh. That means reliable repeating devices as well. Repeater bulbs are crap. I had to ditch the few Cree and GE Link bulbs I had. Sengled makes a great bulb that doesn't repeat.
I ditched Wink over a year ago, they've been going down the shitter for a while and went to a subscription model a few months back.
Everything I have works with Hubitat and it's local and FAST (remote and cloud stuff is supported). Best of both worlds. I did have to add a specific sensor (SmartThings multisensor) to get the MyQ garage door integration running reliably, but other than that, no stranded devices. Tons of community support, drivers, apps, etc.
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