Home "Automation"... Why?

[Grant H.]

So, the thread about dimmer switches in Ask-A-Member got me thinking, but I don't want to derail that thread.

I legitimately would like to hear some of the thought process/logic behind this crazy rush to home "automation". I put automation in quotes as this doesn't fall into "automation" in my experience, instead this is more gimmicky convenience. Automation takes on a different meaning when you have built truly autonomous systems for O/G, Factories, and other industrial applications.

My question is why?

Light switches, door locks, light bulbs, etc... I put thermostats in a slightly different category, but even then, a programmable thermostat is just as good.

Aside from the "cool" factor, what is the draw?

Some of my lack of understanding comes from the idea of OPSEC for personal lives, and some of it comes from what is the "value" for the cost that you spend on this? As digital threats get greater by the day, what is the draw of giving access to control of your house/appliances/HVAC/lighting/etc? If you can get to to it remotely, someone else can as well.

I am by no means a luddite. I have 10gbps networking in portions of my house (I can over run gigabit networks with several of my servers and my NAS). I have a half rack of servers in the garage. I have lots of tech toys. I work in tech. I just don't understand the draw, value proposition, or realistic purpose of it.

Anyway, just curious to hear the thought process that some of the Home Automation users on here care to share.

[ray1970]

Who the heck wants to have to get up and walk across the room to turn a light on or off?

Enough automation and a guy could just watch Netflix and eat Cheetos without interruption.

[buffalobo]

Home automation, is that like the clapper?

Not a fan of home automation, too much shit to break down, get hacked and stupidly expensive IMO.

[hollohas]

I've got a fair amount. I like that my house looks like someone is home when I'm not there. I also like being able to monitor everything when I'm not there. I like motion sensors that turn lights on and off in places like the garage where I might be headed with my hands full. I like my outdoor lights to be dimmed at night but all to come on full bright when someone comes up to the house.

But by far my favorite system is that I have a networked weather station and I use IFTTT to allow the weather station to work with my irrigation. Rain over a certain amount? Irrigation schedule changes or gets cancelled. Windy outside? Sprinklers aren't very effective in the wind, so they get delayed until the wind stops. No need for me to do anything.

I just got a Roborock vacuum too. Thing is awesome. It automatically mapped my house, knows where everything is down to the table legs even and does a VERY efficient job keeping up with the vacuuming. I could never keep up with two dogs' fur..

[Mtneer]

Because I NEED my espresso machine warm and ready when I get up. Handy for the Xmas lights. Both just wifi and way easier to adjust than old timers

Adjust thermostat frequently based on solar gain; programmable ain't smart enough. HVAC is Honeywell so hopefully secure and at least not connected to anything else.

But that's it. No Amazon or Google voice listening devices, most Apple features turned off. Will never do locks, lights, appliances, etc.

[BushMasterBoy]

Once they build life like robot dolls, I will never leave the house.

[00tec]

I use the nest to tell me if it detects motion indoor when I'm not home. Get an immediate alert. It will also notify me if the temp indoors goes outside my set preferences in case of AC/furnace failure, so I can head home and fix it. I have an elderly dog and an exotic bird. They don't do well in certain situations.

I also have a TP link smart plug. You can use it with Alexa or whatever (I dont have one), but I use it with my weather station (thanks Izzy!), or you can use it with weather.com or whatever to turn on an outlet when the outdoor temp is below freezing. It is for my furnace condensate pump. If it freezes, it can't purge and shuts the furnace down. When cold isn't an issue, I don't have to remember to unplug the thing.

[Aloha_Shooter]

I understand the light switches. It was a pet peeve of my father's and is my pet peeve when my family visits because NONE of them seem to know how to find the light switch when they leave a room or the house. Come home from work and find every dang light in the house except my bedroom on while they've been out all day ...

[Great-Kazoo]

outside of timers for the lights, when we're away and remotes for tv. Nothing is automated. Like you i have serious concern the system can be hacked. Or spoofed in to thinking someone else entering the house, is me.

But i'm also one of the few that does not do on line banking, either at home, or with a phone.

[Gman]

I've got a fair amount. I like that my house looks like someone is home when I'm not there. I also like being able to monitor everything when I'm not there. I like motion sensors that turn lights on and off in places like the garage where I might be headed with my hands full. I like my outdoor lights to be dimmed at night but all to come on full bright when someone comes up to the house.

But by far my favorite system is that I have a networked weather station and I use IFTTT to allow the weather station to work with my irrigation. Rain over a certain amount? Irrigation schedule changes or gets cancelled. Windy outside? Sprinklers aren't very effective in the wind, so they get delayed until the wind stops. No need for me to do anything.

I just got a Roborock vacuum too. Thing is awesome. It automatically mapped my house, knows where everything is down to the table legs even and does a VERY efficient job keeping up with the vacuuming. I could never keep up with two dogs' fur..
I get the irrigation control without having my own weather station with Rachio. Makes testing/swapping/adjusting sprinkler heads incredibly easy since I don't have to run back and forth to a manual timer.

My first exposure was a smart switch that my wife bought after I came home from spine surgery. I could turn my bedside table lamp on and off with my voice, because I could not rotate and reach it. Was very valuable to me.

I like that we can setup unique front door codes for someone watching the house, or cleaning the house, etc., that's active only during specific days/times. Had a crisis where someone watching our cat couldn't find the key and we had to FedEx another from out of town overnight so she could get in the next day. This resolves the issue. I figure the slackers over at Schlage know what they're doing.

My porch lights come on 15 minutes after sunset and go off 15 minutes before sunrise, via Alexa Routines.

My Ring alarm is setup to engage the Alexa Guard mode and devices listen for fire/CO alarms and broken glass and control lighting when set to Away.

If there's activity at one of my cameras, I can tell Alexa to show me the camera and she puts the image on my FireTV connected TV.

"Security" is not absolute. Damn near everything can be compromised, even if it's by physical brute force. Make it difficult for compromise at your comfort level. Not having any of it doesn't mean that you're totally safe.

[brutal]

I've got a fair amount. I like that my house looks like someone is home when I'm not there. I also like being able to monitor everything when I'm not there. I like motion sensors that turn lights on and off in places like the garage where I might be headed with my hands full. I like my outdoor lights to be dimmed at night but all to come on full bright when someone comes up to the house.

But by far my favorite system is that I have a networked weather station and I use IFTTT to allow the weather station to work with my irrigation. Rain over a certain amount? Irrigation schedule changes or gets cancelled. Windy outside? Sprinklers aren't very effective in the wind, so they get delayed until the wind stops. No need for me to do anything.

I just got a Roborock vacuum too. Thing is awesome. It automatically mapped my house, knows where everything is down to the table legs even and does a VERY efficient job keeping up with the vacuuming. I could never keep up with two dogs' fur..


I get the irrigation control without having my own weather station with Rachio. Makes testing/swapping/adjusting sprinkler heads incredibly easy since I don't have to run back and forth to a manual timer.

My first exposure was a smart switch that my wife bought after I came home from spine surgery. I could turn my bedside table lamp on and off with my voice, because I could not rotate and reach it. Was very valuable to me.

I like that we can setup unique front door codes for someone watching the house, or cleaning the house, etc., that's active only during specific days/times. Had a crisis where someone watching our cat couldn't find the key and we had to FedEx another from out of town overnight so she could get in the next day. This resolves the issue. I figure the slackers over at Schlage know what they're doing.

My porch lights come on 15 minutes after sunset and go off 15 minutes before sunrise, via Alexa Routines.

My Ring alarm is setup to engage the Alexa Guard mode and devices listen for fire/CO alarms and broken glass and control lighting when set to Away.

If there's activity at one of my cameras, I can tell Alexa to show me the camera and she puts the image on my FireTV connected TV.

"Security" is not absolute. Damn near everything can be compromised, even if it's by physical brute force. Make it difficult for compromise at your comfort level. Not having any of it doesn't mean that you're totally safe.

All good reasons so I can't add too many more of the big reasons.

I started down the path with a need to feel confident that our damn garage door was closed when we weren't there and installed MyQ.

It snowballed from there to lots of what hollohas and gman said.

I also like forcing an outside light off if someone turns it on during daylight hours, making sure they stay off during the day, etc. Making sure they are kept on at night, lest someone turn them off.

Alexa Guard. check (Also Hubitat Safety Monitor)
Rachio. check
Ditto on garage lights, basement lights when carrying a basket or a couple of gun bags
Select inside lights come on when the garage opens during dark, then off x minutes after the door closes (and warnings if it doesn't)
Door and window sensors on EVERY entry point including my safe.
Motion sensors in every room
Water leak detectors and temp sensing in critical locations (all my contact sensors also have temp).
Garage Door status.
Sensing family member presence and running automation based on.
Automated light controls, exterior on at dusk, then dim after 10PM
Setting up an automation to sense unauthorized after dark entry by three letter gangs; randomly strobe the lights, play "welcome to the jungle," and release the claymore roomba.

Kidding of course, but Alexa does play Jingle Bells when the Christmas lights go on auto (or on command) and plays You're a Mean One Mr. Grinch when they are turned off.

I can do automation based on weather, time, temperature, etc.
My truck block heater gets turned on if it drops below 30.

I can monitor and control all this from my phone. Anywhere.

[clodhopper]

People seeking ability to announce technological wokeness.
Toys for big boys, daddy legos, whatever your term for stuff to fiddle with.
The current hotness to brag on pinterest.


For people with health or physical issues, I think it is a great option.

For me, nah. I have yet to see/hear of an automation product that would add more to my life than just thinking it is "cool".



I did put mechanical timer switches on the outside shop lights and my compressor. The lights so I can see to walk to the house in the dark and they shut off on their own. The compressor cause I keep forgetting to shut it off when I am done.

[FoxtArt]

I have zero corporate home automation products. The only things I do are literally "roll your own" using Arduino etc. It's not even a matter of network security or someone hacking the fridge. (big deal, that botnet doesn't hit you, right?). Most critically, I do not want to become reliant on that technology.

I like to stay in the loop, but where the tech is going is not a good place. We already live in times with secret courts and intercepts on US citizens, slowly going in the direction of China on the surveillance state end. I'm not going to do my duty as a citizen to tattle on myself and document every aspect of my life in data to feed into deep learning algorithms.

Already they are likely able to, or think they're able to predict - a lot about your worldview and political opinions in extreme detail just by what you're buying and searching online. Most people though, there's no reason to even guess, that data is readily available. And I concur, it's not a big deal yet. And, I have nothing "to hide". But if I buy into Alexia and get the lights, get my TV synced, so on and so forth, it's no big deal to buy into the next home automation product, and the next, and the next, and I'll incrementalise myself into trading a significant amount of freedom for convenience... and a type of convenience that's nearly worthless. The loss of freedom is stupendous even from a historical perspective. If certain groups got into power, the power that is available for abuse has no historical analogue whatsoever. People are also nearsighted. There won't even need to be a necessity for "camps" or other cliche paranoid thoughts, quite simply it won't be hard to get us to do and say and hold to the official narrative - just like the risk of cancel culture now, only far worse.

I don't know what the future holds, but it isn't great. We're a few years out from "Alexia" style Amazon robots in a sizable fraction of peoples home that keep eldery people company and do the dishes. Probably less than a decade. I'm not going to deny the benefits of that to society, and sure, Amazon will promise that xxxxx is only xxxxxx when xxxxxxx, but they are far, far, far bigger than other companies that have been known to be under strict orders from our secret courts. And there's a growing number of SJW in government that have no problem voicing their actual dreams and desires (which would have been outrageous even two years ago), backed by growing manipulation of press. Growing outright Marxist elements...

No thanks. I like the "privacy of my own home" to actually be tangible, not hypothetical.

ETA: All this said, it is just my opinion and I don't look down on people for using tech. I should also add, I am from a tech background and have servers myself at home with decent infrastructure. I've got an impressive security and camera system. But they are on a segregated network with no route to the internet.... yet I still can get push notifications. There's ways to roll your own and still get "some" of the conveniences with little to none of the risk.

[hollohas]

I get the irrigation control without having my own weather station with Rachio. Makes testing/swapping/adjusting sprinkler heads incredibly easy since I don't have to run back and forth to a manual timer..

I use a Rachio too, but instead of using a random weather station that maybe miles away with very different weather...(rain vs no rain...I've had it cancel watering because some weather station somewhere got rain but I didn't actually get any) my irrigation is now specific to my yard's weather. Plus, I'm just a nerd who likes having a weather station.

You are absolutely right about the ease of not running back and forth to turn on zones. I had to dig a huge section of yard up because the dumbass who installed our irrigation decided a section of yard with no plants or shrubs, needed a drip line 10" deep...which made my grass literally float. I just sat there in the mud turning that zone on and off on my phone to find each hole in the line to plug them.

[colorider]

Weekly I get asked if I sell Lutron brand motorized blinds and shades. I don’t sell them and will not sell them. Why? Because Lutron is a neat interface, but the products that use them are mostly complete garbage. Their blinds are total pieces of shit that have a neat automation interface. That’s it. Fun and neat how you make them go up and down, until they fall apart. Lol.

[brutal]

People seeking ability to announce technological wokeness.
Toys for big boys, daddy legos, whatever your term for stuff to fiddle with.
The current hotness to brag on pinterest.


For people with health or physical issues, I think it is a great option.

For me, nah. I have yet to see/hear of an automation product that would add more to my life than just thinking it is "cool".



I did put mechanical timer switches on the outside shop lights and my compressor. The lights so I can see to walk to the house in the dark and they shut off on their own. The compressor cause I keep forgetting to shut it off when I am done.

You are obviously not a Tier 1 Operator.

[Not_A_Llama]

I legitimately would like to hear some of the thought process/logic behind this crazy rush to home "automation". I put automation in quotes as this doesn't fall into "automation" in my experience, instead this is more gimmicky convenience. Automation takes on a different meaning when you have built truly autonomous systems for O/G, Factories, and other industrial applications.

Starting there, I don't think anyone's explanation would ever satisfy. It is literally and exactly a gimmicky convenience, and for $30 per lightswitch and an Alexa I already own, a very affordable and enjoyable gimmicky convenience.

On the same path, I would attack anyone having a wall mounted lightswitch and not a pullchain.

I also work in tech, and know how hard it is to break into a system. I am exactly a nobody, and I legitimately pray for the future entertainment of anyone bored enough to mess with me and my automatons.

[Brian]

Weekly I get asked if I sell Lutron brand motorized blinds and shades. I don’t sell them and will not sell them. Why? Because Lutron is a neat interface, but the products that use them are mostly complete garbage. Their blinds are total pieces of shit that have a neat automation interface. That’s it. Fun and neat how you make them go up and down, until they fall apart. Lol.

I would love to have motorized blinds/shades, for several reasons. But I've concluded the same thing. The tech seems pretty ready at this point, but I just can't seem to find a quality product at a reasonable price yet. There are some cool home-built things I've seen but I don't have the time/desire to mess with that yet.

[Gman]

Starting there, I don't think anyone's explanation would ever satisfy. It is literally and exactly a gimmicky convenience, and for $30 per lightswitch and an Alexa I already own, a very affordable and enjoyable gimmicky convenience.

On the same path, I would attack anyone having a wall mounted lightswitch and not a pullchain.

I also work in tech, and know how hard it is to break into a system. I am exactly a nobody, and I legitimately pray for the future entertainment of anyone bored enough to mess with me and my automatons.

I have to admit I LOL'd reading that.

[colorider]

I would love to have motorized blinds/shades, for several reasons. But I've concluded the same thing. The tech seems pretty ready at this point, but I just can't seem to find a quality product at a reasonable price yet. There are some cool home-built things I've seen but I don't have the time/desire to mess with that yet.

I sell many brands of motorized blinds and shades that are great quality. HOWEVER, the price is not friendly. The motorization adds about $325 per blind or shade. I won't tell you how much I pay for the motorization, but I will tell you I don't made squat on it. I make my money on the blind/shade portion. You can do some pretty darn cool stuff with them through apps, solar recharging, sun sensors, programming etc. However, it all comes with a hefty price tag. I get a whole bunch of customers who want motorized stuff until I tell them the price. I give them the $325 price per blind to motorize right when they mention they want it. That way they will know instantly if it is in their budget or not. Lets just say that the majority that though it would be really cool to have quickly change their mind.

[Zundfolge]

I'd argue that the push for home automation is being pushed by tech companies that simply want more and more metadata that they can sell. Annoying but mostly harmless (now of course there are bad actors in business and government that are salivating at the opportunities to nudge and control with this metadata, but most of the proponents of home automation are just looking for new ways to mine data to sell).

As for the advantages for the consumer, I dunno, I guess being able to change your thermostat on your phone while you're driving home from work or the ability to check how much milk is in the fridge from the grocery store might be kinda cool ... and of course voice controlled assistants are nifty for turning lights off and on when your hands are full, but I'm too paranoid to trust any of it.

[clodhopper]

You are obviously not a Tier 1 Operator.

I am not even worthy of local airsoft militia.

[def90]

I own and operate a company that does home automation, home audio video, security, networking and home theaters though my business has shifted to mostly large commercial projects these days..

Why automation? Some places it makes sense, others not so much and is more of something a client soimply wants. When I was working on 15,000 sq ft homes lighting control was mandatory, most of these homes have up to a dozen different lighting loads in a single room. A bathroom may have a bath fan, a ceiling light, sconces next to the mirrors, a light in the shower, under cabinet/toe kick lighting.. Rather than have 5 light switches when you walk in to the bathroom you have a single keypad with 3 or 4 buttons and all of the lighting loads run down to a centralized panel. The main button on top for instance may be programmed to turn on all of the lights in the room other than the shower to a preprogrammed level, if you press that button after 12:00 at night those lights may come on at a much dimmer level so that you aren't blinded. The off butto may be programmed to turn off all of the lights and allow the bath fan to run an additional 5 minutes.. and so on. A button at the door in to the garage may be programmed to turn off the entire house, who wants to walk around a 15,000 sqft house looking for lights that are on?

Then.. you ay have an audio system that allows you to listen to music throughout the house, you might have thermostats (largest house I worked on had 30 HVAC zones), a security system.. Then how are you going to control all of this? Walk around to every thermostat or open a single app that gives you accesss to control all of this stuff in one place..

Obviously that makes more sense than a 2 bedroom ranch house that has one or two lights in each of the 5 rooms, but hey, it's still cool to be able to turn on the light in the bathroom at night using a button next to your bed than to walk around in the dark.

[Duman]

Once they build life like robot dolls, I will never leave the house.

Hahahaha!!![ROFL1]

[Gman]

What you wrote:

Once they build life like robot dolls, I will never leave the house.

What I read:

Once they build life like robot sex dolls, I will never leave the house.

[brutal]

Gman

What you wrote:
Originally Posted by BushMasterBoy
Once they build life like robot dolls, I will never leave the house.

What I read:
Originally Posted by BushMasterBoy
Once they build life like robot sex dolls, I will never leave the house.



What I read:
Once I found realdoll.com, I never left the house.

[brutal]

I'd argue that the push for home automation is being pushed by tech companies that simply want more and more metadata that they can sell. Annoying but mostly harmless (now of course there are bad actors in business and government that are salivating at the opportunities to nudge and control with this metadata, but most of the proponents of home automation are just looking for new ways to mine data to sell).

As for the advantages for the consumer, I dunno, I guess being able to change your thermostat on your phone while you're driving home from work or the ability to check how much milk is in the fridge from the grocery store might be kinda cool ... and of course voice controlled assistants are nifty for turning lights off and on when your hands are full, but I'm too paranoid to trust any of it.

Valid point.

It's not 100% roll your own but I run Hubitat which is 100% local control and works without internet. However, to use voice control you need to roll your own (there are some open source projects) or link to Cloud services like Amazon or Google.

[brutal]

I thought of a few other things.

With my Lutron stuff I can deploy any number of Pico remotes. I used them in our kitchen remodel to add 3-way dimmers where no wires could (should) go on a cabinet end and a solid framed wall corner. I intend to use one on the wife's nightstand as an intruder button, have one in the garage to disable the timed lights off when there's no motion detected because I'm wrenching on something, etc.

I can also put in a smart dimmer for the same cost as a quality dumb dimmer. Smart switches/dimmers can also do other programmed functions and "scenes" when you do things like double tap, etc.