View Full Version : I'm failing 1st grade math
encorehunter
10-11-2020, 19:10
I used to think I was half way decent at math. Now that I am helping my 7 year old, I am seeing problems I help him with marked wrong. I hate this new math.
83373
Ugh. I remember some of that new math when my kids were little.
Some of it was utterly stupid.
I told my son not to do an assignment once and then went and had a nasty talk with the teacher. The problems were so simple you could just look at it and know the answer but the way they wanted him to solve them took a full page and fifteen minutes per problem.
I wasn?t raising any government workers. I don?t need my kids being taught the most inefficient way to solve a simple problem.
Dear K-12, undergrad, grad schools.
Just teach the damn normal math like:
Algebra, geometry, trigonometry, calculus,
Differential equation, linear algebra,complex variables,abstract algebra, partial differential equation crap!!
Do not teach us some alien andromeda galaxy math....
Confirms for me that teachers are way overpaid.
Predator (alien) arithmetic and numbers.
https://youtu.be/9m7hPlL-v4A
Ok, color me stupid. How is #7 wrong? 3 - 10 = -7
Grant H.
10-11-2020, 19:38
Without seeing the context of the math problem it's hard to see what they are pushing for, but every other example of "new math" that is being taught (even into highschool) is just mind numbingly stupid.
BushMasterBoy
10-11-2020, 19:48
Your kid is right. .gov employee is wrong. I decode alien math all the time. Some of it takes months to figure out. I know a lot here think I am just telling fibs. Official .gov link below...
https://www.nsa.gov/Portals/70/documents/news-features/declassified-documents/cryptologic-spectrum/communications_with_extraterrestrial.pdf
WTF? 7 = 10-3
I don't see what angle they could be reaching for that would make 7 = 3-10 true..
3 - 10 is -7
If you have 3 dollars and take away 10 dollars you are negative 7 dollars
No wonder the teachers are complaining about not being paid enough and they are broke. Since this is probably the way they balance their check book.[ROFL1]
That is some crazy Dr. John Nash stuff without meds.
My pt is.
Our math science and engineering is most likely far behind alien stuff. Why complicate our math and go backward?
[LS][tinhat]
Ok, color me stupid. How is #7 wrong? 3 - 10 = -7
Teacher said 3-10=7. So.......
Parents do your kids a favor. Make them memorize the addition, subtraction, multiplication and division tables. Regardless of what the teacher wants to teach.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Little Dutch
10-11-2020, 20:21
This is a very basic problem.
A+B=C
Subtract B from both sides
A+B-B=C-B
A=C-B
It’s not rocket science, it’s not new math, it’s simply a wrong answer key.
electronman1729
10-11-2020, 20:42
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCgo0syhQqU
If 10=7+3 then 10-3= Triangle!!!!
This is a very basic problem.
A+B=C
Subtract B from both sides
A+B-B=C-B
A=C-B
It’s not rocket science, it’s not new math, it’s simply a wrong answer key.
OP should send this to teacher and get the points back.
If 10=7+3 then 10-3= Triangle!!!!
Wrong. 10-3= potato. Not triangle. Dummy.
Wrong. 10-3= potato. Not triangle. Dummy.
Don't be a square Ray
Ok, color me stupid. How is #7 wrong? 3 - 10 = -7
That's what I got from that.
BushMasterBoy
10-11-2020, 22:36
If E equals M times C squared ...does T equal C cubed?
E is energy
M is mass
C is speed of light
T is time
Great-Kazoo
10-11-2020, 22:46
3 - 10 is -7
If you have 3 dollars and take away 10 dollars you are negative 7 dollars
No wonder the teachers are complaining about not being paid enough and they are broke. Since this is probably the way they balance their check book.[ROFL1]
They don't ever balance their check books. They use their credit, or debit card to cover the checks written.
Hence their undying support of any democrat running for office. Why balance their check book, when mother .guv will pay it for them.
With our money.
encorehunter
10-12-2020, 04:32
I have sent one paper back before asking for clarification on another problem he missed. She didn't bother to respond. Parents are not allowed in the school still. It is difficult to deal with this over the phone. I agree, I thought 3-10=-7. I am wondering if we are the only ones who actually check our kids homework after the teacher checks it.
Bailey Guns
10-12-2020, 05:51
To be honest, do people still balance check books?
I haven't done that since online banking became a thing. I know what I have and I know what I spend. Every morning I review my account just to make sure all is right with previous days charges/debits/deposits. If all is well, I'm good.
To be honest, do people still balance check books?
I haven't done that since online banking became a thing. I know what I have and I know what I spend. Every morning I review my account just to make sure all is right with previous days charges/debits/deposits. If all is well, I'm good.
Yep.. this.
I laugh at a co-worker with 2 inch thick wallet full of receipts.
I haven't balanced my checkbook in decades. I use the register to simply track the few checks I write. We do pretty much everything online.
In regard to the sloppy math instruction, I have to wonder if the 'new math' is an intentional distortion to keep people dependent on what other people tell them is the answer to *fill in the blank*. Instead of doing the math to be able to understand what "the science" actually means, listen to what the media tells you to conclude about *insert agenda item here*.
Aloha_Shooter
10-12-2020, 08:25
I'd take that answer sheet, slip it to the principal and ask HTH his staff passed basic instruction skills, that you were going to contact the school board and demand every teacher be able to demonstrate basic reading, writing, and arithmetic tests from a 1960s-era primer.
I'd take that answer sheet, slip it to the principal and ask HTH his staff passed basic instruction skills, that you were going to contact the school board and demand every teacher be able to demonstrate basic reading, writing, and arithmetic tests from a 1960s-era primer.
Nah. I?d just duplicate the problem without any ?corrections? and send it to the principal to solve. If he comes back with a normal, correct answer then tell him he is wrong. If he wants to debate then point him in the direction of the teacher so that he/she can explain it to the principal why his answer was wrong.
Bailey Guns
10-12-2020, 10:01
^^ But what if the principal solves it using the new math method?
^^ But what if the principal solves it using the new math method?
Well, I suppose I don?t have a contingency plan in place for that scenario.
Home schooling maybe?
clodhopper
10-12-2020, 11:27
In regard to the sloppy math instruction, I have to wonder if the 'new math' is an intentional distortion to keep people dependent on what other people tell them is the answer to *fill in the blank*. Instead of doing the math to be able to understand what "the science" actually means, listen to what the media tells you to conclude about *insert agenda item here*.
There may be some of that involved. After a couple decades dealing with "new maths" as a parent, I have determined that the new math techniques were developed as alternate solution methods for kids who struggle with the classical method. Then, in the wisdom of school administration, Fed education officials, whatever, ? it was determined that these new methods may make the few kids that need it to feel substandard, so to keep everyone feeling equal, we will require all kids to learn these methods. Then over time, additional new methods are found, expanding new math. Now, each kid has to master anywhere from 4 to 10 different ways to solve the same problem. This burns up so much time that the kids don't get to the more advanced topics and end up behind for the next year. Over focus on "inclusion" and "self esteem" is crippling our science programs.
And yes, I have a couple engineering degrees and have had several arguments with kids math teachers over the years about what the right answer should have been on something marked wrong.
Keep in mind, even though your kid was marked wrong, the bar has been lowered down to where they will still get a B or better unless they are having social issues. I have watched average grades continue to rise while required content has continued to drop. As long as kids grades are a reflection of teacher performance, this crap will continue.
I start to wonder what they teach in history then.
I assume
"We didn't land on the moon, the Soviet did with martians help."
clodhopper
10-12-2020, 11:33
I start to wonder what they teach in history then.
I assume
"We didn't land on the moon, the Soviet did with martians help."
More like, "White men landed on the moon, but you don't need to study this as it wont ever impact your life. Lets move on."
BladesNBarrels
10-12-2020, 15:16
I used to think I was half way decent at math. Now that I am helping my 7 year old, I am seeing problems I help him with marked wrong. I hate this new math.
83373
Teacher Fail!
The 3 is subtracted from each side of the equation, so it is 10-3, not 3-10.
Teacher did not look at their work after performing erroneous calculation.
Any questions?
More like, "White men landed on the moon, but you don't need to study this as it wont ever impact your life. Lets move on."
Women and Black Mathmaticians matter and contributed on that matter on a movie "Hidden Figures."
So, it has to be like Commie History Textbook. "Stalin landed on the moon with Mao. Lenin from heaven helped both."
https://youtu.be/v-pbGAts_Fg
BladesNBarrels
10-12-2020, 16:52
Hey, thanks for posting the clip from Hidden Figures.
I am inspired to watch it, now.
See if I can find it on Netflix, Prime Video, or Comcast On Demand
Old Math!
clodhopper
10-12-2020, 17:05
Women and Black Mathmaticians matter and contributed on that matter on a movie "Hidden Figures."
So, it has to be like Commie History Textbook. "Stalin landed on the moon with Mao. Lenin from heaven helped both."
https://youtu.be/v-pbGAts_Fg
Tell me again what was the name of the black astronaut that was on the moon landing trips?
Hey, thanks for posting the clip from Hidden Figures.
I am inspired to watch it, now.
See if I can find it on Netflix, Prime Video, or Comcast On Demand
Old Math!
It's a great movie.
Tell me again what was the name of the black astronaut that was on the moon landing trips?
Tell me again what was the name of the white woman that was on the moon landing trips?
Yeah, another non-sequitur and equally as unimportant. Unless you have some kind of time machine, you're stuck in the past forever. The perfect solution to not having to recognize any positive change since then.
If you liked Hidden Figures, check out October Sky too.
O2
If you liked Hidden Figures, check out October Sky too.
O2
I saw that almost 20 years ago. Very different movies and I liked Hidden Figures much more. Maybe it's because I'm a computer nerd?
Maybe it's because I'm a computer nerd?
Nope, cant be it, computer nerd here, too. :)
But yeah, HF was far more fast paced and technical. OS was more about self determination and discovery. I guess what appealed to me was the "project based learning" aspect, which is the way I learn best.
O2
Aloha_Shooter
10-13-2020, 08:22
I actually think "October Sky" was a better movie. A lot of overstatement in the not-so-hidden agenda behind "Hidden Figures".
clodhopper
10-13-2020, 13:35
Tell me again what was the name of the white woman that was on the moon landing trips?
Yeah, another non-sequitur and equally as unimportant. Unless you have some kind of time machine, you're stuck in the past forever. The perfect solution to not having to recognize any positive change since then.
At the current point in history, white women don't count as much as any person of color. Or at least that is what the pop culture and media are pontificating. It doesn't matter that minorities were instrumental in the moon landings. That will be overlooked and the "important" issue will be that no black astronauts were there. Or transgender ones either I would guess.
It is all pretty much horsehockey. The color of the skin of the people who were involved matters almost nothing in the fact that the US was able to get the job done. Cherry picking history and beating on the milestones of history simply because it doesn't fit your modern sense of fairness is stupid and petty. But people still do it thinking they are making some sort of improvement.
BushMasterBoy
10-13-2020, 14:20
I liked the alien movie "Arrival". The final message decoded was "Use the weapon." It took a specially trained linguist to figure out what the alien message was. There was some drama about the message as "weapon" and "tool" meant the same to the aliens.
BladesNBarrels
10-13-2020, 15:42
History - the study of past events, particularly in human affairs.
Past Events is the key.
I am not saying teaching "remainder" is wrong or bad idea. They had to do that, because they usually do whole number during those grades.
As for me, 3rd (to some 4th) grade division was very confusing.
15/4 = 3 R3
https://www.dadsworksheets.com/worksheets/long-division/easy-three-digit-division-with-remainders-v1.jpg
Ugh. 15/4 = 3.75. There is no remainder.
On a related note, I always hated fractions. The concept always seemed so antiquated even when I was in school. Do other countries still use or teach fractions? I?d much rather just use decimals.
BladesNBarrels
10-14-2020, 08:51
Okay, shifting the conversation just a little.
All the young people of today will only be using their calculator function on their phone.
Math will be just to check if they made some input error by powers of 10.
So, what does the calculator say when 15/4 = Well, it says 3.75.
Remainder calculations fail.
Any Questions?
Though I do remember in 3rd grade, my teacher told us the reason we had to learn long division was because we wouldn't always have a calculator on us to punch in the numbers. :rolleyes:
Ugh. 15/4 = 3.75. There is no remainder.
On a related note, I always hated fractions. The concept always seemed so antiquated even when I was in school. Do other countries still use or teach fractions? I?d much rather just use decimals.
I've found that people not good with fractions are typically not good with numbers in general. Fractions are important.
I've found that people not good with fractions are typically not good with numbers in general. Fractions are important.
Good thing for me I didn?t say I wasn?t good with fractions. I just don?t like them.
And we will have to agree to disagree about the importance of fractions.
BladesNBarrels
10-15-2020, 07:56
Don't like fractions, then you are not rational or is that irrational?
https://i.imgur.com/fsDrkK8.jpg
UncleDave
10-15-2020, 09:32
Fractions are not important, decimals are important. Engineers and machinists do not use fractions. Only trades where accurate measurements are not critical use them like in carpentry.
Fractions are not important, decimals are important. Engineers and machinists do not use fractions. Only trades where accurate measurements are not critical use them like in carpentry.
Are the engineers and machinists gonna build your house?
I would say they carry some importance.
I remember market used fraction and it was pain in the ass.
65 3/8!! Limit order at 65 7/16!! And fill!
That crap disappeared after 2000.
Fractions are not important, decimals are important. Engineers and machinists do not use fractions. Only trades where accurate measurements are not critical use them like in carpentry.
Division remainders are VERY important in Computer "programming". I can't tell you how I know this, but they ARE.
Division remainders are VERY important in Computer "programming". I can't tell you how I know this, but they ARE.
% (and no, that's not "percent" in this case)
O2
Ps. There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those that don't.
My father was a Tom Lehrer fan (and made me one) who was a great singing comedian from the 60s.
In the 60s a "new math" was introduced which is what I (and most of you probably) learned.
Here was Tom Lehrer's take on the old, new math.
O2
Ps. I can remember doing base 8 math in 5th grade, which ties right into this video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIKGV2cTgqA&ab_channel=JaredKhan
clodhopper
10-15-2020, 10:24
My father was a Tom Lehrer fan (and made me one) who was a great singing comedian from the 60s.
In the 60s a "new math" was introduced which is what I (and most of you probably) learned.
Here was Tom Lehrer's take on the old, new math.
O2
Ps. I can remember doing base 8 math in 5th grade, which ties right into this video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIKGV2cTgqA&ab_channel=JaredKhan
Goes to show that no matter what you learn, there will always be a "newer" math. I actually learned what Tom presents as new math. It took me a second to understand what he presented as the classic method, which really isn't different, just annotated in reverse order. I cant remember ever seeing how my Pops would have done such a problem, I think he just converted his habits to the methods I learned, but I just don't know for sure. What is being taught as new math now is quite revised, typically graphical, yet still retains the idea that it is more important to understand what you are doing that getting the right answer.
Aloha_Shooter
10-15-2020, 13:09
Fractions are not important, decimals are important. Engineers and machinists do not use fractions. Only trades where accurate measurements are not critical use them like in carpentry.
As a systems engineer with a background in computer science, I would dispute this statement. An understanding of the fractions involved are VERY important in understanding the limitations of decimal (and more importantly digital) representations of real world problems. The actual computation will be done using digital representations with decimal output but I prefer the actual fractional equations whereever possible.
clodhopper
10-15-2020, 14:04
That sounds more like a disability than a preference.
UncleDave
10-15-2020, 14:08
As a systems engineer with a background in computer science, I would dispute this statement. An understanding of the fractions involved are VERY important in understanding the limitations of decimal (and more importantly digital) representations of real world problems. The actual computation will be done using digital representations with decimal output but I prefer the actual fractional equations whereever possible.
I can concede that point. I was using a bit of hyperbole. However, most of the engineers that I have worked with, mostly mechanical and electrical use the decimal for calculation. And in machining it was all done to the 1000th or 10,000th in Imperial or done in metric, which is what I used mostly.
You fraction lovers can take your 11/40 and 37/64 and other such nonsense and stick it in a bong and smoke it.
BladesNBarrels
10-15-2020, 15:10
Oh yes! Tom Lehrer.
I learned the elements from his song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaFxrYEDmCs
There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium,
And hydrogen and oxygen and nitrogen and rhenium,
And nickel, neodymium, neptunium, germanium,
And iron, americium, ruthenium, uranium,
Europium, zirconium, lutetium, vanadium,
And lanthanum and osmium and astatine and radium,
And gold, protactinium and indium and gallium,
And iodine and thorium and thulium and thallium.
There's yttrium, ytterbium, actinium, rubidium,
And boron, gadolinium, niobium, iridium,
There's strontium and silicon and silver and samarium,
And bismuth, bromine, lithium, beryllium, and barium.
There's holmium and helium and hafnium and erbium,
And phosphorus and francium and fluorine and terbium,
And manganese and mercury, molybdenum, magnesium,
Dysprosium and scandium and cerium and cesium.
And lead, praseodymium and platinum, plutonium,
Palladium, promethium, potassium, polonium,
And tantalum, technetium, titanium, tellurium,
And cadmium and calcium and chromium and curium.
There's sulfur, californium and fermium, berkelium,
And also mendelevium, einsteinium, nobelium,
And argon, krypton, neon, radon, xenon, zinc and rhodium,
And chlorine, carbon, cobalt, copper, tungsten, tin and sodium.
These are the only ones of which the news has come to Harvard,
And there may be many others but they haven't been discovered.
I don't understand .5 of that.
BladesNBarrels
10-15-2020, 15:23
I don't understand .5 of that.
But you get the pi of it!
As a systems engineer with a background in computer science, I would dispute this statement. An understanding of the fractions involved are VERY important in understanding the limitations of decimal (and more importantly digital) representations of real world problems. The actual computation will be done using digital representations with decimal output but I prefer the actual fractional equations whereever possible.
Yes
Numerically decimals are better. Mathematically, fraction is important with all these unknown variables.
Rucker61
10-15-2020, 18:21
Yes
Numerically decimals are better. Mathematically, fraction is important with all these unknown variables.
(π/5) x 5 is a lot easier to solve as a fraction than as a decimal.
6/12 in one hand, 50% in the other...
(π/5) x 5 is a lot easier to solve as a fraction than as a decimal.
Good point.
Maybe I should have said the final numerical answer for curious people. :)
Circuits
10-15-2020, 21:02
If fractions blow your minds, let me tell you about isotopes.
clodhopper
10-15-2020, 21:08
Numerical calculations nearly always incorporate rounding, requiring evaluation of significant figures. Fractions do not.
But I am not a theoretical researcher. So I use decimals. And I wish the Chinese company that made my drill bit assortment used decimals also.
Numerical calculations nearly always incorporate rounding, requiring evaluation of significant figures. Fractions do not.
But I am not a theoretical researcher. So I use decimals. And I wish the Chinese company that made my drill bit assortment used decimals also.
1/8 = 1 divided by 8 = 0.125
Just take your calculator to your drill bit assortment. [Coffee]
2/3 = 0.666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 6666667
[Coffee]
2/3 = 0.666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 6666667
[Coffee]
Close, but no cigar. [cigar]
Sorry that 2/3 decimal was very annoying. :)
buffalobo
10-16-2020, 07:11
Yeah, good thing they dont make 2/3 drill bits.
Oh yes! Tom Lehrer.
I learned the elements from his song:
I've always liked the animation of this version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7hO-1ItqXw&ab_channel=pantone288u
Aloha_Shooter
10-16-2020, 15:40
2/3 = 0.666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 6666667
[Coffee]
Now take that extend it to the binary digital representation.
2/3 = 1/2 + 1/8 + 1/32 + 1/128 + 1/512 + ...
= 0.1010101 ...
In actual single precision floating point, the 32 bits of a computer word are split using the first bit for the sign (positive or negative), 8 bits for the exponent, and 23 bits for the mantissa.
You can see how this works at https://www.exploringbinary.com/floating-point-converter/ . Enter a decimal number, specify output in binary and click convert. Now for some real fun, specify decimal output as well and you can see what that binary representation really translates to. In the case of 2/3 at double precision, it's 0.666666666666666662965923241249478198587494439697 2656 .... that's generally "good enough for government work" but the errors pile up with each multiplication or division. A mechanical or electronical engineer (much less a general contractor) should never have to worry about that. Someone calculating the gravity boosts for an interplanetary probe using a radioactive thermal generator that needs to swing by the Earth a couple of times at altitudes of 1/20-1/10 the radius of the Earth does ...
RblDiver
10-17-2020, 09:27
that's generally "good enough for government work" but the errors pile up with each multiplication or division. A mechanical or electronical engineer (much less a general contractor) should never have to worry about that. Someone calculating the gravity boosts for an interplanetary probe using a radioactive thermal generator that needs to swing by the Earth a couple of times at altitudes of 1/20-1/10 the radius of the Earth does ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z3JYb7VkFc
2:37
"An equation with a result of 1.33382 returns as 1.33381. This changes the results of all higher processes. We will reach different conclusions."
"So the reason they worship the Reapers is...a math error?"
BladesNBarrels
10-17-2020, 09:33
Genetic DNA evolution
Aren't we all the result of math errors?
https://i.imgur.com/1F0rqO5.jpg
JohnnyDrama
10-17-2020, 15:48
This is a fun thread. The discussion regarding fractions vs. decimals brought to mind a lecture in one of my calculus classes. The instructor commented that while "we" had math for a long time, when engineers started to use it, math was found to be too precise. They needed math that moved. So calculus was invented.
BladesNBarrels
10-17-2020, 16:26
Had a flashback memory of the Hal and Charley Morning Radio Show on KHOW.
They would play this every once in a while:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFLvhKv-Lbo
encorehunter
10-28-2020, 20:07
83555
My wife won't let me send this back to the school. It is my son's report card that I graded for them.
83555
My wife won't let me send this back to the school. It is my son's report card that I graded for them.
I would do it anyway. Totally worth it.
83555
My wife won't let me send this back to the school. It is my son's report card that I graded for them.
If you have a friend who is principal or superintendent in same district, I would do it!
[Flower]
I ve heard that teachers has to take praxis and continuing education?
[flamingo]
encorehunter
11-06-2020, 19:30
83619
No wonder I can't get a grasp on this election.
I tried to brush up on all the new maths, which is only plural because there's different maths to use depending on how you want to count something.
I've come to the conclusion that 260 + 10 = Potato.
BladesNBarrels
11-07-2020, 09:34
[QUOTE=encorehunter
No wonder I can't get a grasp on this election.[/QUOTE]
That explains why all the news anchors were thanking the hard working vote counters, AND the math teachers for making it all possible
[Coffee][Coffee]
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