Apparently we don't like foreigners... Lol...

[Grant H.]

Hanging out in the hotel in Taiwan, and can only browse the board if I VPN to my house. (Corp VPN doesn't like gun stuff).

83441

Thankfully my OpenVPN on a Raspberry Pi is fast and easy.

I'm only 22 hours into my 15 day mandatory quarantine, and I am already annoyed... Can't leave the hotel room, can't hang out with co-workers, etc. All because of the "scary" virus...

Thank goodness for delivery options. The provided food in the hotel is abysmal.

[MrPrena]

你好吗？


(Nǐ hǎo ma?)

[GilpinGuy]

Damn man! Like traveling to NY. [LOL]

Keep posting on here about your experience. We'll keep you entertained I'm sure.

[Grant H.]

你好吗？


(Nǐ hǎo ma?)

Lol. Thankfully Taipei is rife with folks that speak "english", because my mandardin blows...

Google Translate helps too.


Damn man! Like traveling to NY. [LOL]

Keep posting on here about your experience. We'll keep you entertained I'm sure.

Traveling with the scary virus thingy that's going on is annoying.

Mandatory test in CO, no more than 72 hours before departure. United is too dumb to know how that works, so they have a 72 hour requirement set off your departure, and a 72 hour requirement set off your arrival. Took 45 minutes at DIA to get them to understand that the Taiwan .gov page was explicitly clear on this.

DIA was noticeably empty, more so than in August when I went to AK. Mandatory mask in airport and on flights, unless you are eating/drinking. Because the virus knows when you are doing that, and doesn't cause a problem then...

LAX was a ghost town. United Polaris lounge had a grand total of 8 people in it (our crew is 3). Grand total of ~40 people on the 13.5 hour flight to Incheon South Korea.

Incheon was also empty. Literally 12 people from Incheon to Taipei. On a 777-200...

United flights are hit or miss. We used to have easy flights to Taiwan. Den-SFO-TPE. Couldn't be booked for this trip. Had to use Asiana and bounce through SK.

Only certain hotels are allowed for "quarantine" in TPE. Booking them had to be done 2 months in advance to actually get a room. Once our two weeks is up, we will move to our regular hotel, closer to the job site.

The hotel provided food in quarantine sucks. Lunch was a shitty chicken sandwich (called a "burker, wif chicken" by the menu lady on the phone) and some cold, soggy fries. There are no microwaves in the quarantine hotels (our sister companies have had folks at the other options and we picked the best that they could recommend), so we all bought and brought plug in food warmers (canvas foil lined bag with a heater plate in the bottom).

We had to have a local TPE number for .gov health checks, and we have to report our temps 2x daily to the hotel staff. So we all bought burner phones when we landed. Yet another hassle.

The good news is, once we get out of quarantine, we get to largely move about the country without issue. So, all of our usual preferred and awesome food options will be available, and we can use Uber/Train/etc public transportation.

Now we just sit on our asses and wait to see if the TW import licenses for our project gear/parts gets approved on time, so we can still come home in time for Thanksgiving. Looking at minimum 4 weeks here due to this mandatory quarantine BS.

[ray1970]

I?m curious who exactly enforces your quarantine? In other words if you just up and decided you wanted to leave the hotel and go somewhere for the day what?s in place to stop you and what would be the consequences for your actions?

[fitz19d]

Given that it's still basically china I wouldn't fuck around and find out. It's better than mainland but it's still not a free country.

Thread makes me miss my few weeks there before.

[theGinsue]

Grant - and anyone else traveling overseas,

Due to the high level of spammer attacks the site has had through the years, we've banned hundreds (or thousands) of individual IP addresses and hundreds of subnets. Each banned subnet covers over 650k individual IP's. This is fine for our members when we're sitting someone CONUS but can cause access issues when they travel overseas. Spammers out of China like to go through other Asian countries like Vietnam, Korea - and Taiwan.

To alleviate this, what we've done for folks in the past is ask them to send an email to the "Contact Us" address (boardadmin@ar-15.co) and let us know your member name (to help us verify it's actually you, please give us something we can use to truly know it is you!), what's going on and how long you expect to be using that IP. Using the "Contact Us" link embeds your IP address into the content of your message to us. We check that email daily (sometimes more). We'll then temporarily unblock that IP (for the duration of your trip/while you expect to use that IP), then re-block it when you've told us you're no longer using it. If you move, and need access through another IP, just follow the process again. All of this helps to reduce risk to the site and helps you, the member, to have access.

PLEASE NOTE: We're having an issue with our "Contact Us" mailbox whereas only I can currently access the mailbox. I'll be incommunicado for a while starting Monday evening and likely won't have time to access the site at all tomorrow. If you want to use this option, act fast.

SECOND NOTE: We also block LOTS of VPN's as they mask the location of members and are also a common tool of spammers. We verify all new members locations and VPN's don't facilitate this option. Once members are established (i.e. activated), they can use a VPN to access the site, so long as the routing doesn't take them through a banned IP, or overseas where there is a greater likelihood of encountering a blocked IP. The only site members that should ever receive a "The administrator has banned your IP address" message is those overseas, those using VPN's, and those who've done something very wrong and got themselves banned (even then, those folks KNOW they were banned and we rarely ban the member AND block their IP --it's usually just a member ban). We occasionally receive emails saying "My IP is blocked, why did you ban me" from members in good standing. We have to explain to them that they've stumbled onto a blocked IP connection and to release and renew their connection and that usually clears the problem.

Good luck.

[ray1970]

Given that it's still basically china I wouldn't fuck around and find out. It's better than mainland but it's still not a free country.


Don?t get me wrong. I wasn?t suggesting any sort of act of defiance. I was legitimately curious about how these quarantines for outsiders are actually enforced.

I changed my 2020 vacation plans due to the Covid stuff because of quarantine restrictions for travelers at the time of our trip. My wife was asking me theoretical questions about what if we stuck to our original plans and didn?t follow the fourteen day quarantine rules once we arrived.

Obviously countries like China probably play by their own rules but in more freedom friendly places I am curious who monitors your whereabouts and what the possible penalties are for violating a rule and not really breaking any laws.

I?m a curious creature I guess.

[ChadAmberg]

My boss has been living in Kuala Lumpur for years to run our office there, and had come back to the US for a couple weeks to work with us on some things, right before all the quarantines started way back in the long long ago... he's still here now, all these months later. But the bosses promoted him, and now he has to relocate back to the US. He is still trying to figure out how to get back to KL, do their quarantine, pack up his stuff, ship it to the US, and come back. Add in all the restrictions so he can't fly under his US passport and has to use his Aussie one, and you can tell he's tempted to just say to hell with his stuff and just let it all go.

[Great-Kazoo]

Don?t get me wrong. I wasn?t suggesting any sort of act of defiance. I was legitimately curious about how these quarantines for outsiders are actually enforced.

I changed my 2020 vacation plans due to the Covid stuff because of quarantine restrictions for travelers at the time of our trip. My wife was asking me theoretical questions about what if we stuck to our original plans and didn?t follow the fourteen day quarantine rules once we arrived.

Obviously countries like China probably play by their own rules but in more freedom friendly places I am curious who monitors your whereabouts and what the possible penalties are for violating a rule and not really breaking any laws.

I?m a curious creature I guess.


few ways
1: being monitored by their health dept. Throw in any of the hotel staff. Who may or may not receive a reward, for ratting you out.

2: and the most frequent is. Morons posting pictures of them on the web. One tourist in Hawaii was arrested for violating the quarantine, after posting pics of him wandering around the beach.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Yep, I've received that message while attempting to peruse the board from other countries (New Zealand, Portugal, India, Indonesia, etc.). No biggie, was just seeing what was going on during a free moment. I'm rather pleased the board is taking these kinds of precautions, less pleased that it has to.

[theGinsue]

I'm rather pleased the board is taking these kinds of precautions, less pleased that it has to.

Amen to that!

[battlemidget]

It'll be interesting to see how much air travel there is over the Thanksgiving weekend. I bet that's the make/break point for some big decisions in that vertical.

[Irving]

Our flight to Vegas was full with the exception of one seat per row.

What's the point of the testing if you still have to quarantine? I think our country is on a lot of other countries lists for mandatory quarantine.

[BladesNBarrels]

What's the point of the testing if you still have to quarantine? I think our country is on a lot of other countries lists for mandatory quarantine.

Test may only show if positive now.
Testing to make sure you are not symptomatic right now.
You can be exposed and not show symptoms up to 2 weeks.
Even Wyoming was requiring quarantine if you were arriving from Colorado during the spring and early summer.
Don't know if they still are.

[Gman]

Our flight to Vegas was full with the exception of one seat per row.

What's the point of the testing if you still have to quarantine? I think our country is on a lot of other countries lists for mandatory quarantine.
Sounds like my flight on Alaska from SeaTac to Denver. Middle seats open, masks required unless eating or drinking. Distancing getting on or off the plane, in the train to the terminal, or at certain escalators was a joke.

Can't wait until we just get on with our lives. There will be another virus after COVID-19, just like there were ones that came before it. Are we just going to lose our shit and destroy economies every time something new comes along, even if the survival rate is extremely high?

Back to the thread topic, I'm glad the forum is geofencing. It may be an inconvenience for some of us, but there are technology solutions that can mitigate the problem. VPN back to a home system is one, and using a commercial VPN solution like NordVPN is another. If you're traveling often and forced into using open networks, you're probably taking precautions already, right?

[Holger Danske]

I used to Do the DEN-SFO-TPE or -PVG (Shanghai Pudong) 4 or more times a year. I can't imagine doing it with Covid restrictions and quarantine. That would suck. Good luck OP.

[Not_A_Llama]

Given that it's still basically china I wouldn't fuck around and find out. It's better than mainland but it's still not a free country.

Thread makes me miss my few weeks there before.
Taiwan is a long way from “basically China”. China has *zero* sway there. It’s among the freest countries you can find, particularly in East Asia. Been to both?

[MrPrena]

Taiwan is a long way from ?basically China?. China has *zero* sway there. It?s among the freest countries you can find, particularly in East Asia. Been to both?

Yup PRC (China) and ROC (Taiwan) to me is a different country and should be a different country.
I've learned world geography as a different country too.

[Grant H.]

I?m curious who exactly enforces your quarantine? In other words if you just up and decided you wanted to leave the hotel and go somewhere for the day what?s in place to stop you and what would be the consequences for your actions?

GPS Monitoring of phone. You have to provide contact info for the daily check in from the TWN .gov, and also the 2x daily temperature reports to the quarantine hotel.

Also, as Kazoo said, the hotel staff is pretty well versed in this. We don't have a room key to re-enter our rooms if we left, etc.

Upon entry, you have to have completed their paperwork which lists your Q-hotel, date of arrival, and date of Q-end. It is still "china" so getting questioned isn't out of the realm of reality.

So, if you are good leaving your room unlocked, your phone in your room, and risking getting noticed by the hotel staff, then you could in theory get out and about. I know you aren't suggesting that, but they have it pretty well handled.


Given that it's still basically china I wouldn't fuck around and find out. It's better than mainland but it's still not a free country.

Thread makes me miss my few weeks there before.

Yeah, this. The digital tracking, contact tracing, etc that is always occurring here is ridiculous. We can't even bring our usual corp laptops/phones into the country. We have to get clean loaners.


Don?t get me wrong. I wasn?t suggesting any sort of act of defiance. I was legitimately curious about how these quarantines for outsiders are actually enforced.

I changed my 2020 vacation plans due to the Covid stuff because of quarantine restrictions for travelers at the time of our trip. My wife was asking me theoretical questions about what if we stuck to our original plans and didn?t follow the fourteen day quarantine rules once we arrived.

Obviously countries like China probably play by their own rules but in more freedom friendly places I am curious who monitors your whereabouts and what the possible penalties are for violating a rule and not really breaking any laws.

I?m a curious creature I guess.

We have crews headed for Australia (maybe, depends on getting the invite from the AU .gov) and Germany. Germany looked like it was going to be a "self imposed" quarantine, but that is likely changing with the "spike" in cases in the EU.

Most places we have antenna's are pretty similar currently. Hard to get visa/access into to being with, negative PCR test within 3 days of departure, some form of quarantine with varying levels of control/monitoring, and fines if you get caught breaking quarantine/rules.


Yep, I've received that message while attempting to peruse the board from other countries (New Zealand, Portugal, India, Indonesia, etc.). No biggie, was just seeing what was going on during a free moment. I'm rather pleased the board is taking these kinds of precautions, less pleased that it has to.

Agreed. Just thought it was funny. I saw this in Israel, but I wasn't stuck in a hotel for 14-15 days with little to do...


It'll be interesting to see how much air travel there is over the Thanksgiving weekend. I bet that's the make/break point for some big decisions in that vertical.

My wife works at the United flight training center in Denver, and to say things are going to be vastly different for the near future, and likely longer future, is easy. The number of layoff's and cut flights is only part of it. The company I work for used to be notorious for shipping people around the country, in business class, at the drop of the hat for meetings, contracts, work etc. We have already seen that our team will continue to travel (hands on work with system critical infrastructure), but the business/sales side of the world is going to be vastly different.

Personal travel, like visiting family, will still happen, but it's going to be greatly reduced. Look at what happened to travel after 9-11... It took quite a while for people to be willing to travel after that, and there are more people worried now than there were then.

[Grant H.]

Taiwan is a long way from “basically China”. China has *zero* sway there. It’s among the freest countries you can find, particularly in East Asia. Been to both?

I have been to both, and while I agree that their sway isn't great, or real publicly felt, it does exist. Our customer has to do with preventing that sway and such, and they are noticeably worried about the posturing and actions from China, especially post Hong Kong.

That said, TWN as a country is fine with a level of surveillance and people tracking that most US citizens wouldn't like.


Yup PRC (China) and ROC (Taiwan) to me is a different country and should be a different country.
I've learned world geography as a different country too.

It should be, but China doesn't agree. Satellite imagery has found where China has built full scale versions of the TWN Presidential compound, and other important .gov buildings, in the Mongolian area. The imagery reminds me of the shoot houses on US .mil bases that I have seen.

One thing that is getting tracked really closely by my company, our US .gov resources, and the TWN .gov resources is the possibility that China might invade pending US election results.

[nighterfighter]

Back to the thread topic, I'm glad the forum is geofencing. It may be an inconvenience for some of us, but there are technology solutions that can mitigate the problem. VPN back to a home system is one, and using a commercial VPN solution like NordVPN is another. If you're traveling often and forced into using open networks, you're probably taking precautions already, right?

VPN to a home system is good, as is any sort of commercial solution (NordVPN, PIA, etc). HOWEVER many places (and specifically countries like China/Russia/Taiwan) can or do block all VPN traffic. It's not trivial to get around this, a decent amount of TCP/UDP knowledge is required, lots of changing src/dst ports, and hoping things cooperate with you. (Ironically, Southwest Plaza Mall in Littleton, CO blocks some VPNs.)

Your other option is to use Tor (but I'm assuming the board blocks Tor even harder than specific IPs), or Tor -> VPN, (or VPN->Tor) but this is much harder to set up than a simple VPN, and can raise red flags. (Not all Tor traffic is illegal, but a high % of it is)


If you are more paranoid about VPNs tracking you (some of them do), you can host your own VPN utilizing an Amazon EC2 instance and an OpenVPN template. They aren't terribly hard to configure and get running, but this does cost a non-zero amount of money and is a lot more involved than pressing "Connect" on your NordVPN app.

If anyone has specific questions about VPN/Tor, let me know and I'll answer what I can. I currently work as a senior cybersecurity engineer and am getting a M.S. in Cybersecurity, so this is kinda my life right now...

[MrPrena]

I have been to both, and while I agree that their sway isn't great, or real publicly felt, it does exist. Our customer has to do with preventing that sway and such, and they are noticeably worried about the posturing and actions from China, especially post Hong Kong.

That said, TWN as a country is fine with a level of surveillance and people tracking that most US citizens wouldn't like.



It should be, but China doesn't agree. Satellite imagery has found where China has built full scale versions of the TWN Presidential compound, and other important .gov buildings, in the Mongolian area. The imagery reminds me of the shoot houses on US .mil bases that I have seen.

One thing that is getting tracked really closely by my company, our US .gov resources, and the TWN .gov resources is the possibility that China might invade pending US election results.

Because of those crazy neighboring countries, countries like South Korea, Israel etc has to do mandatory military.


https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/02/15/china-threat-invasion-conscription-taiwans-military-is-a-hollow-shell/

[fitz19d]

Taiwan is a long way from ?basically China?. China has *zero* sway there. It?s among the freest countries you can find, particularly in East Asia. Been to both?

Know and hangout with folks from both. Spent a month in taiwan for friends wedding. Freeist for asia doesn't make it free. Friend actually got scooped up and held at one point not that long ago because his parents thought they did him a favor registering him with their government as a child for dual citizenship. So the customs people on one of his 1-2x yearly trips suddenly had him flagged for essentially draft dodging. (Born in the US I thought, or maybe it was taiwan and immediately moved here I forget, either way they hadn't bothered to tell him). Fortunately he knew some people who could pull strings before it also became kinda an incident as he's a serving E-8 in the army with some actual clearances working with special people.

So while it's a far cry from being china, I was being hyperbolic, still not a place I'd test my chances in.