Couple dies in Bunker from Troublesome Fire

[tactical_2012]

COLORADO WILDFIRES: Family believes grandparents died in cement bunker during East Troublesome Fire
https://kdvr.com/news/local/family-believes-grandparents-died-in-cement-bunker-during-east-troublesome-fire/

[.455_Hunter]

Based on the scanner traffic from Wednesday night, I believe the couple were physically contacted at least once by rescuers for assistance in evacuating, and they refused help.

I am not sure what else could have been done.

[Brass]

It's even harder to understand their actions in light of the fact that he was a retired firefighter. I'd expect him to have a solid grasp on temperature and air quality in the middle of a fire.

[Mtneer]

A well-designed fire bunker can easily withstand a wildfire and protect anyone inside. Typically built away from the building in case it collapses with a sealed door that opens inwards so it can't be blocked by debris. They're fairly common in Australia and will likely become popular in the US as fires continue to grow.

[.455_Hunter]

It will be interesting if details of the bunker become public, such as basement versus separate. I agree a separate bunker has very high probability of surviving a forest fire if constructed properly.

[tmckay2]

Wouldnt you need it to be air tight though and have only one air intake and outtake with a filter?

[hatidua]

How long of an air supply (aside from the temperature issues) would a bunker need? would an hour be enough, would eight hours be enough?

[FoxtArt]

I would think an issue could exist where any kind of air intake/exhaust could result in a situation where the fire is also consuming your oxygen supply. But, I honestly don't know. I've heard of issues like that with flamethrowers and rare cases of suffocation in war. (such as keeping an armored vehicle lit up, the occupants can suffocate).

[O2HeN2]

Might work for a brushfire, but not a forest fire:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7887545/Woman-SCUBA-gear-hid-pool-survive-bushfire-going-property.html

O2

[CS1983]

This is pretty rough. People need to stop the "I live in a forest" mentality. No; you live in a fire pit. Clear away your land from the house.

May they rest in peace.

[Mtneer]

How long of an air supply (aside from the temperature issues) would a bunker need? would an hour be enough, would eight hours be enough?

Yes, a fire bunker needs to be completely air tight and resist heat for at least one hour. Fires normally burn through in less than 30 minutes but residual heat can make it dangerous to leave right away. The room needs enough air for that hour; this can be supplemented with scuba tanks, just open the valve slowly, or an external vent that can be opened from the inside. Commercial ones cost $10k-$20k. Some info: https://www.oakhillfiresafe.org/considerations-for-building-fire-bunkers

[BPTactical]

This is pretty rough. People need to stop the "I live in a forest" mentality. No; you live in a fire pit. Clear away your land from the house.

May they rest in peace.

We had a phrase for that when I worked for the Forest Service-

"Defensible Space"

[hatidua]

The room needs enough air for that hour; this can be supplemented with scuba tanks

That's where my question was headed. I figured if I can easily last 60 minutes on a single tank at minimal depth, I should be able to last that long above water on the same tank (albeit elevation likely plays into it). Stash ten steel 72's and hope that's enough kind of thing?

[Mtneer]

That's where my question was headed. I figured if I can easily last 60 minutes on a single tank at minimal depth, I should be able to last that long above water on the same tank (albeit elevation likely plays into it). Stash ten steel 72's and hope that's enough kind of thing?

Too many variables to predict: room volume, number of people, etc. A panicked diver can suck a 72 down in mere minutes. But for a WAG, one tank per person plus the option to open a vent should more than suffice until the fire front has passed. Defensible space is indeed a better option than a bunker but not everyone has the option for good mitigation; the house next door can be a bigger problem than clearing trees.

[Delfuego]

Clear away your land from the house.

May they rest in peace.

It didn't matter with this fire. It was raining fire, ash and ember, no amount of clearing would have made the difference. A buddy lost his home and his rental property in Grand Lake. Neither were near any trees. Both would be considered safe in a normal year.

Speculating here. I think this couple may have consigned themselves. I am ok with their decision. If I was 80+ and in their shoes, I don't know if I would have evacuated either.

[Duman]

It's already been pointed out, but oxygen/air tanks, supplies, etc.. are of little use in a bunker, if the internal temperature can't be maintained at survivable levels.

An outside temp of 1,000F (or pick your own fire temperature) would likely need several feet of earth between bunker and fire to keep temps survivable.

Where is mythbuster's when you need them?

[.455_Hunter]

It looks like their house was down in the river bottom and mostly surrounded by grass and low density trees. Not a huge thermal load from the surrounding area, but definitely possessing the ability to catch the house on fire when no active response is present.

I am guessing that the bunker was in the house (basement), and the house collapsed on top of it. Who knows how the bunker actually constructed- was it a supposed to be an actual fire room or just secure storage? Designing something for a typical house fire is completely different than a total conflagration where the home is reduced to an ash pile.

RIP.

[Mtneer]

An outside temp of 1,000F (or pick your own fire temperature) would likely need several feet of earth between bunker and fire to keep temps survivable.

Not that hard or expensive to build with several layers of fire-rated plasterboard and a good design. Concrete is a bad choice due to spalling. A bunker inside the house is fine for tornadoes, not so much for fire collapsing the house on top of you. Hence locate a bunker away from the house. Events like this are survivable with preparation.