"The Limits of Free Speech on the Internet", or "What happened to ARFCOM can happen to us"

[theGinsue]

Over the years many of you have expressed your displeasure over how the staff moderates discussions on this site. Many times members of the staff have been called Nazi's or worse.

What everyone needs to know is that the staff and most of our members know that we have a responsibility to choose what we share publicly with care.

One of the core rules for posting on this site is that there will be no discussion of armed insurrection or revolution allowed - period. This is for a number of reasons, the primary of which is that it is just wrong. I won't expand on that as I believe we all know the truth behind it. Secondly, members of the staff and many members of the site are in positions where association with such discussions, even if not directly, could have negative impacts on our employment. And lastly, even though the staff pays out of our own pocket to maintain our internet access, this could be lost instantly if an entity such as our Domain Provider (DNS) chooses to revoke our access. This is why the staff is so aggressive about moderating discussions that may cause us harm. Our goal is to protect ourselves, our members and our site.

This last reason hasn't been brought up before because it's a hard concept to grasp for many who only see the benefits of a free society - and can't see that there are multiple externals that must always be considered. Now, with what's recently happened to ar15.com, perhaps many of you can see that what we have here is fragile. Just one discussion of civil unrest - even within our COVID or ANTIFA/BLM threads can be the straw that breaks the camels back for us. What's worse for us than for ar15.com is that we receive no income from funding, advertising or sponsors - ARFCOM receives a LOT of it. If we were to lose our domain or internet access, it could be very costly and the staff doesn't have the means to adjust to it as easily as ARFCOM can.

Beyond just taking down a site, we see in our nation the "cancel culture" steamrolling peoples lives. In recent days (and in days to come), for no other reason that simply being associated with someone has been sufficient justification for people to lose their jobs, to lose their insurance and bank accounts, etc.

So, as things go forward in our nation I urge all of you to consider the ramifications to yourselves, to members of the staff, to the site because of the words you choose to share publicly. I continue to encourage you all to show respect to other members and to our communities as a whole. I urge you to NOT participate in any activity that would bring discredit to the firearms community because we know there are those just waiting for any reason they can twist to revoke this precious freedom we have.

Thank you.

Ginsue

[MrPrena]

Thank you.
Read and acknowledged.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Thanks for posting this Ginsue. Spot on.

[Great-Kazoo]

Roger, Roger.


What's sad is even without any reason, IMO, one especially now. Anyone who has an R as their voting preference, flys an American flag, backs the blue, stickers. ALL face backlash from the winners of this election cycle. Sadly history is destined to repeat itself. With the self proclaimed AF mob. Doing what they so proudly say, they stand against.

[Hummer]

theGinsue, thank you for the eloquent and well reasoned explanation. I think you are right in every respect. I find it horrifying that our politicos in government, tech business, the media and academia have worked to squelch freedom of speech and put our once free people in fear of losing our nation and virtually everything we hold dear.

[JohnnyEgo]

A very valuable post, for which I am grateful.

[RblDiver]

Beyond just taking down a site, we see in our nation the "cancel culture" steamrolling peoples lives. In recent days (and in days to come), for no other reason that simply being associated with someone has been sufficient justification for people to lose their jobs, to lose their insurance and bank accounts, etc.


I get why you've posted this, but this feels like giving the cancel crowd exactly what they want. If people don't stand up to them, it'll just get worse.

[sroz]

I get why you've posted this, but this feels like giving the cancel crowd exactly what they want. If people don't stand up to them, it'll just get worse.

True, but they are also fine with you giving them a reason to shut you down. They'll take either/or. Choose your words carefully when posting online and save anything beyond that for private discussions with your friends. And Ginsue is correct when he states that being associated with such talk could have a real negative impact on some members.

[20X11]

Over the years many of you have expressed your displeasure over how the staff moderates discussions on this site. Many times members of the staff have been called Nazi's or worse.

What everyone needs to know is that the staff and most of our members know that we have a responsibility to choose what we share publicly with care.

One of the core rules for posting on this site is that there will be no discussion of armed insurrection or revolution allowed - period. This is for a number of reasons, the primary of which is that it is just wrong. I won't expand on that as I believe we all know the truth behind it. Secondly, members of the staff and many members of the site are in positions where association with such discussions, even if not directly, could have negative impacts on our employment. And lastly, even though the staff pays out of our own pocket to maintain our internet access, this could be lost instantly if an entity such as our Domain Provider (DNS) chooses to revoke our access. This is why the staff is so aggressive about moderating discussions that may cause us harm. Our goal is to protect ourselves, our members and our site.

This last reason hasn't been brought up before because it's a hard concept to grasp for many who only see the benefits of a free society - and can't see that there are multiple externals that must always be considered. Now, with what's recently happened to ar15.com, perhaps many of you can see that what we have here is fragile. Just one discussion of civil unrest - even within our COVID or ANTIFA/BLM threads can be the straw that breaks the camels back for us. What's worse for us than for ar15.com is that we receive no income from funding, advertising or sponsors - ARFCOM receives a LOT of it. If we were to lose our domain or internet access, it could be very costly and the staff doesn't have the means to adjust to it as easily as ARFCOM can.

Beyond just taking down a site, we see in our nation the "cancel culture" steamrolling peoples lives. In recent days (and in days to come), for no other reason that simply being associated with someone has been sufficient justification for people to lose their jobs, to lose their insurance and bank accounts, etc.

So, as things go forward in our nation I urge all of you to consider the ramifications to yourselves, to members of the staff, to the site because of the words you choose to share publicly. I continue to encourage you all to show respect to other members and to our communities as a whole. I urge you to NOT participate in any activity that would bring discredit to the firearms community because we know there are those just waiting for any reason they can twist to revoke this precious freedom we have.

Thank you.

Ginsue

Amen and GOD Bless

[TFOGGER]

There's an old curse: May you live in interesting times. We are unfortunate enough to be living in interesting times. While I don't advocate submission to the coming shitstorm, sometimes discretion is a better tactic. The nail that sticks up is the one that gets the hammer.

[Ah Pook]

Sound words.
Thank you.

[D_F]

Logical and I’m very appreciative of the site and staff. It would seem that when feasible and available that a move to better aligned providers would also be logical and appreciated. I know I’m researching this for my company which isn’t 2A related in any way. However supporting the status quo doesn’t align with my value system. I’ve “kicked in” in the past and will be happy to do so in the future as part of the community.

Thank you again.
D

[CS1983]

Don't answer. Rhetorical question: Is there a dead man's switch to wipe all info, including backups, should the need arise?

[wctriumph]

Thank you and God bless.

[clodhopper]

I get why you've posted this, but this feels like giving the cancel crowd exactly what they want. If people don't stand up to them, it'll just get worse.

While I dont disagree with your point, there are times when the right plan is to be quiet so you are still around later when times are different. Those who see things much differently from how we do currently have significant momentum.

[Grant H.]

Thank you to Mods and Site Admin!


Don't answer. Rhetorical question: Is there a dead man's switch to wipe all info, including backups, should the need arise?

Site Admin held? Very possible, and not a bad idea.

Cached, archived, etc completely outside of Site Admin control? Likely. If it was posted on the internet, it exists outside of your control.

[TheNash]

Logical and I’m very appreciative of the site and staff. It would seem that when feasible and available that a move to better aligned providers would also be logical and appreciated. I know I’m researching this for my company which isn’t 2A related in any way. However supporting the status quo doesn’t align with my value system. I’ve “kicked in” in the past and will be happy to do so in the future as part of the community.

Thank you again.
D

For all of the great things and information especially the stuff that makes ya just laugh your ass off.I would be more than willing to contribute to the site.
Thanks for dealing with all of us

[Irving]

For all of the great things and information especially the stuff that makes ya just laugh your ass off.I would be more than willing to contribute to the site.
Thanks for dealing with all of us

Many of us have, when given the opportunity.

ETA: I don't remember if I have, but I know others here have.

[theGinsue]

For a bit of clarification, I submit to you the following:

The rest of the staff and I certainly appreciate offers to donate to the operational costs associated with the site, but sadly there are positives and negatives to how the site operates which makes this a no-go.

The site operates as a "personally owned" entity vice as a formal business entity. We have no business license which means we operate outside of the controls that can be levied against us under that type of operation. This also means that we have NO income. This is just one reason why we don't have paid sponsors/advertisers on the site (besides, who wants to deal with having to see that here?). All of this together means that any donations to "the site" could/would be considered "personal income" to anyone on the site to receive it. This is why we haven't requested nor accepted donations from our members. I know that some of you have sent "gifts" to some in the distant past, but once we realized the legal/taxable implications we quickly stopped accepting anything. We'd rather pay out of our own pockets to maintain the site than to have to deal with the consequences of receiving funds.


Since I started this thread, I've had a couple of folks reach out to me to offer advice on how to navigate the road we see ahead. We've got a lot of brilliant minds on this site and many with some amount of experience in managing an online presence. Whether you have experience with servers, domains, etc. or not, and while the staff is fairly ingenious at times, we can't always think of everything so any advice you have is always appreciated. Just do me the favor of sending it via PM - there's no point in making workarounds publicly viewable when it just helps those with ill will towards us find ways to circumvent our efforts.

Now, while I'm on the subject of site access, did you know that the site does have a page on Facebook? I'll confess that I rarely visit it and it gets next to no activity, but it exists and is a great place to go for information during the times when access to this site is down. I'll let those of you with FB accounts do your own search to find it.

[FoxtArt]

A spot of wisdom for the record for those that think any site is caving:

The internet is a jealous ex-wife with the memory of an elephant. Currently, postings by U.S. Military personnel on social media are being used to selectively filter out U.S. servicemen and women for guard duty at the capital on January 20th, to weed out any "sympathizers". And you know that 99% of young servicemembers who supported DJT have posted about it online at some point in time, so we've created the most effective means to "filter" ourselves out of any positions that matter. Posting on the internet, while "venting", accomplishes very little other than contributing to the memory of this jealous ex-wife, who will remember what you said far longer than you ever can. So already, everyone's flag waving and ranting on the internet is used to filter out diversity of thought in one segment of our armed forces. That will only continue.

If you want to have conversations outside of the purview of this jealous ex-wife, it is appropriate to do so with others, in person. I highly suggest NEVER getting involved in politics on any social media attached to your name (facebook, twitter, etc.). It is better to have no history at all, than a history in any direction online, which will affect your job opportunities, promotions, hiring, firing, probably credit before too long, etc. We're just a few years away from someone being able to very quickly "search" your social footprint to highlight any even slightly controversial comments you've made in the past, which you cannot delete. "Oh, he made a joke about a handicapped person in 2009, lets pass on him".

Before you post or share something on social media (especially name attached, facebook, twitter, etc.) ask yourself what value do YOU actually get from it. [Why I basically never post jack on those footprints]. Are you actually going to change anyones mind? Get any money from it? Improve your opportunities? No? That said, there is little harm in having accounts - any in some cases beneficial - so long as you're not actively participating in the vomit of it.

[CHA-LEE]

A spot of wisdom for the record for those that think any site is caving:

The internet is a jealous ex-wife with the memory of an elephant. Currently, postings by U.S. Military personnel on social media are being used to selectively filter out U.S. servicemen and women for guard duty at the capital on January 20th, to weed out any "sympathizers". And you know that 99% of young servicemembers who supported DJT have posted about it online at some point in time, so we've created the most effective means to "filter" ourselves out of any positions that matter. Posting on the internet, while "venting", accomplishes very little other than contributing to the memory of this jealous ex-wife, who will remember what you said far longer than you ever can. So already, everyone's flag waving and ranting on the internet is used to filter out diversity of thought in one segment of our armed forces. That will only continue.

If you want to have conversations outside of the purview of this jealous ex-wife, it is appropriate to do so with others, in person. I highly suggest NEVER getting involved in politics on any social media attached to your name (facebook, twitter, etc.). It is better to have no history at all, than a history in any direction online, which will affect your job opportunities, promotions, hiring, firing, probably credit before too long, etc. We're just a few years away from someone being able to very quickly "search" your social footprint to highlight any even slightly controversial comments you've made in the past, which you cannot delete. "Oh, he made a joke about a handicapped person in 2009, lets pass on him".

Before you post or share something on social media (especially name attached, facebook, twitter, etc.) ask yourself what value do YOU actually get from it. [Why I basically never post jack on those footprints]. Are you actually going to change anyones mind? Get any money from it? Improve your opportunities? No? That said, there is little harm in having accounts - any in some cases beneficial - so long as you're not actively participating in the vomit of it.

BOOM!!!! This is very important for people to understand. There is nothing "Free" about Social Media engagement, especially if the content you are creating can be perceived in a negative fashion. Way too many people feel the need to share their stance or opinion on whatever contentious topic of the day is. In today's society, voicing an opposing opinion, regardless of it being backed up with facts or not, it is considered an attack against the receiver. The days of having a spirited debate with someone and both walking away from the discussion wiser are LONG GONE. You are either on board with their stance and ideals or you are the enemy that must be destroyed. There is no middle ground of simply agreeing to disagree. Or respecting the fact that everyone is entitled to their own opinion about something and that is OK. These are scary times for all of us. The online social media machine is currently the wild wild west and many will pay a big price before meaningful regulation is deployed if ever during our life times. Do your best to keep from screwing yourself unintentionally. We all have opinions, but most of the time its usually best to keep those opinions to yourself.

[Irving]

It sounds like the site may also benefit from those who know about operating businesses as well. The description of why donations aren't accepted sounds off to me, or at least very easily navigated. I'm not the expert so I won't pretend to offer more advice, but I'd think that an hour conversation with a tax person could answer any questions related income and taxes. I'm just trying to say, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater regarding member donations until you know for sure that it'd cause more issues than benefits.

[Ranger353]

This is all sage advice and spot on. I will stand on my soap box for a bit and say that elections have consequences and it is our turn to suffer. Don't like what I'm saying? Then Vote, get your family to vote, get your friends to vote, get your like minded co-workers to vote. Stop making excuses and accusations, vote your opinion at the next opportunity.

R

[brutal]

I understand the position of the site owners and staff, and appreciate the advice.

However it saddens me that so many have resigned themselves to just let other people run roughshod over them and effectively silence all dissent.

[FoxtArt]

It can, at times, be much easier to remove a business than an "asset." Anyone know how to find a registered agent for this site? No? Who you going to serve? How do you locate them? Anyone know there are regulations that require you to hire an attorney to represent a business? Yeah, they monopolized that too, you cannot self represent a business against any significant claim, no matter how frivolous. IMHO their decision to keep it private is quite wise.

[J]

Don't answer. Rhetorical question: Is there a dead man's switch to wipe all info, including backups, should the need arise?

I shall not answer as you requested

[Irving]

It can, at times, be much easier to remove a business than an "asset." Anyone know how to find a registered agent for this site? No? Who you going to serve? How do you locate them? Anyone know there are regulations that require you to hire an attorney to represent a business? Yeah, they monopolized that too, you cannot self represent a business against any significant claim, no matter how frivolous. IMHO their decision to keep it private is quite wise.

Those are all better reasons than basic financials.

[J]

Logical and I’m very appreciative of the site and staff. It would seem that when feasible and available that a move to better aligned providers would also be logical and appreciated. I know I’m researching this for my company which isn’t 2A related in any way. However supporting the status quo doesn’t align with my value system. I’ve “kicked in” in the past and will be happy to do so in the future as part of the community.

Thank you again.
D

Across my business portfio I work with many providers. Of those used with this site, and each providers current history, only one causes me very slight concern, the others cause me zero concern.

We will be talking amongst the staff to determine if any migrations are prudent. Of course for obvious reasons I won't discuss providers or arrangements with such providers in the open.

[BushMasterBoy]

Everything that has "Possible Intelligence Value" is stored on a computer. One part of that giant computer is just one state west of us. The computer is so big that the components are in different areas of the US.

Arfcom is up and COAR15 is still available.

I have learned on here, many valuable things from many members.

Thank you all for your contributions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center

[Aardvark]

Copy all. I'm taking a breather from my anger, re-evaluating every aspect I can personally affect before calling "Broken Arrow". Peace out.

[Gman]

I don’t own any guns or know any of you people.

Just for the public record.

But I still love and care about all God’s children. Including all y’all.

[OtterbatHellcat]

Saddened is less than descriptive for how I look at this fucking nonsense, but it is much more polite.

I've been much more than disappointed in the happenings over the last eight months, and more so with the last two....and this last couple of weeks is only the beginning of the unbridled shitbaggery that will be taking place for at least the next two years.

And.....we can't talk about it. What a sweet set up for the communists.

Fuck me runnin'.

[thedave1164]

they are listening and keeping records.
they are almost able to record your thoughts now.
any keystroke you make is a bit of information that can be stored somewhere, when you talk around your smart phone it is listening, and its GPS is a record of where it has been, not to mention the cell tower pings. And lets not forget the IoT and smart home devices LOL
they have been able to read the emissions from your computer system board since the 80's so it is vulnerable even if air gapped.

just because I am paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get me.

Oh and twitter/FB losing billions in value since the purge began, LOL they don't care, they get black money along with google

and remember boys and girls, the rules of 3's:

You can live 3 minutes without air
You can live 3 days without water
You can live 3 weeks without food
In a group of three, one is a fed or an informant

[Great-Kazoo]

they are listening and keeping records.
they are almost able to record your thoughts now.
any keystroke you make is a bit of information that can be stored somewhere, when you talk around your smart phone it is listening, and its GPS is a record of where it has been, not to mention the cell tower pings. And lets not forget the IoT and smart home devices LOL
they have been able to read the emissions from your computer system board since the 80's so it is vulnerable even if air gapped.

just because I am paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get me.

Oh and twitter/FB losing billions in value since the purge began, LOL they don't care, they get black money along with google

and remember boys and girls, the rules of 3's:

You can live 3 minutes without air
You can live 3 days without water
You can live 3 weeks without food
In a group of three, one is a fed or an informant

tre persone possono mantenere un segreto, se due di loro sono morte

[thedave1164]

tre persone possono mantenere un segreto, se due di loro sono morte

yes sir

[palepainter]

I don’t know what has happened or if I’m viewing on cache memory, but I seem to be navigating through everything at ar15.com

[thedave1164]

I don’t know what has happened or if I’m viewing on cache memory, but I seem to be navigating through everything at ar15.com

It was DNS blackholed for a while, a lot of people lost connectivity to the site, it has since been restored

[TEAMRICO]

84598

[Great-Kazoo]

84598


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atY4MCYYucs


It's time you started thinking inside your head
That you should stand up and fight
Oh just where will you be when your freedom is dead
Won't you listen tonight?

[MrPrena]

tre persone possono mantenere un segreto, se due di loro sono morte

3 person/people possesses maintain? a secret, 2 ___ ___ ___ death.

[TEAMRICO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atY4MCYYucs


It's time you started thinking inside your head
That you should stand up and fight
Oh just where will you be when your freedom is dead
Won't you listen tonight?

Someone’s knocking at my door....”Who is it?”

[RblDiver]

3 person/people possesses maintain? a secret, 2 ___ ___ ___ death.

Three people can keep a secret if 2 are dead.

[Great-Kazoo]

Three people can keep a secret if 2 are dead.

GREAT now everyone knows the secret.


OK folks. Line up, for bayonet practice.

[Aloha_Shooter]

3 person/people possesses maintain? a secret, 2 ___ ___ ___ death.

three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead

[Irving]

tre persone possono mantenere un segreto, se due di loro sono morte


3 person/people possesses maintain? a secret, 2 ___ ___ ___ death.


Three people can keep a secret if 2 are dead.


three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead

Perfectly illustrated.

[Gman]

84598

Except due to social media/MSM engineering, many people will accept the fraud as fact and defend it with religious fervor.