View Full Version : Are local gun stores suicidal?
I really like to support local as much as I can, but I'm concerned about some business practices I've seen locally, and wondering if anyone can explain a different perspective?
As a case study, I recently picked up a P365XL, and want an optic for it. A local shop reported getting in some Sig Romeo Zero sights in...far from top of the line, but I figured might be good enough to try one out for a while before upgrading. I saw these on sale online for $160 last week, can be picked up easily elsewhere for $190, and have an MSRP of $220. As I'm happy to pay a little more to support local, I figured I'd be paying MSRP.
I get there, and find them marked $270. I can understand higher markup for low supply items (after all, mark things too low and people just buy to resell), but these are plentiful out there.
What is the thought process here? Is it an attempt to hope people don't know any better in the buying frenzy just to get what's in stock? In my view, local shops have a limited number of people coming through (unlike Cheaper Than Dirt and the constant supply of people online), and even if someone DOES pay that price, eventually there's a good chance they're going to find out and are going to remember, and what's going to happen to stores when demand drops down and people start avoiding the places that they feel jacked up the prices on them? Not talking ammo and such here that's gone up everywhere and is in high demand, just other accessories that are still plentiful
Am I missing another perspective here?
hollohas
01-30-2021, 13:57
Some small shops buy inventory at retail prices and markup from there. Sometimes they don't have many distributors, don't have good distributors, distributors don't have stock, etc. So they buy retail, pay shipping and mark it up.
Or they just think they can get higher margins in this environment.
I wouldn't pay that much either.
These stories reminds me of gunshows.
Grossly overpriced items even during non-panic times.
I think this is grossly oversimplified. In every industry you have certain businesses that do that. There are car dealers that markup their inventory by 10-25% over any competition and still have the occasional idiot buy something.
There are plenty of gunstores that don't. Back when I was operating, I remember a customer that called asking about a price on a revolver of some sort. I gave him a price, he came in with the money a while later because it was the lowest possible, period (he went through online, called every store, etc.) and in store, he accused us of "false advertising" because I added sales tax to the invoice. I ultimately shrugged my shoulders at this pissed of gent as he was shouting on his way out the door, it somewhat amusing to me, because I knew he would be back... and who the heck doesn't understand sales tax in todays day and age?
...And he came back two days later all humble and nice-like after figuring out that every-other-store also added sales tax on his invoice and we were the most reasonable price possible, period.
But, working like that comes at a cost, and that cost is in volume, and working in like 80 hour weeks averaging less than minimum wage.
Implying that all gunstores overprice because one does is a weak rant. Also needs more swearing and description of an ogre behind the counter with airsoft gear. 1.5/10
Implying that all gunstores overprice because one does is a weak rant. Also needs more swearing and description of an ogre behind the counter with airsoft gear. 1.5/10
Sorry, poor title choice. Didn't mean to imply they were all this way... In fact plan on visiting a few more today. I was really just wondering if there was another perspective I was completely missing... I like local shops and want them to stay around, but I'm concerned for this example of surviving long-term...which would be a shame because they're the most convenient for me.
Mostly teasing ;)
It is a double edge sword for LGS. In panic cycles they hardly can't get jack squat because the buying power of the bigger stores usually takes priority, and getting the inventory people want is few and far between. Then the rest of the time (e.g. like trump slump) the customer numbers go way, way down and the margins get razor thin. Either way, it's hard to make it.
I will buy things that have to go through an FFL from local sources when I can.
As far as parts, pieces, etc. that I can just have shipped straight to my house.... nope. I can pretty much always get it cheaper online.
I will support LGS as much as I can, but $50 markup for item that is 210 is just too much for me. Those are not even that hot nor rare either. I currently need 1 or 2 for myself right now.
$50 is NOTHING FOR SOME PEOPLE here, but I made -$23/week (yes negative) last year after all the writeoffs.
I would sadly have to save $50 by going online.
I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and ask if they'll honor MSRP price. If not, then like MrPrena said, you can buy online and have it shipped to your door for the same or less.
Great-Kazoo
01-31-2021, 09:37
If my lgs had the buying power as well as able to put their name on an optic, sure. Joe's little, local gun store , as mentioned before . Unless they're a well known volume dealer don't get the discounts on line vendors do.
I know browning wanted $25K (vendor pricing) in firearms before they would even talk to you. And those firearms, well some of them were what browning wanted you to sell. Not what you demographic would buy.
Yeah one of the worst businesses to start up is a LGS. Kazoo pointed out another aspect - so many manufacturers screw you that way. Benelli is another one. Want to stock a couple? Well, you better pony up to buy $30,000 first, including things that will take 5 years to move, then they can make $40 off each sale!
Kimber is another one... want to stock a couple Kimber 1911's? Better pony up and buy $5,000-$10,000 of their bolt action rifles nobody wants too, as well as every-other-slow moving product they have.
It would be far, far more profitable for most LGS to just leave their money in the market than stock all sorts of slow moving small margin crap. There's two types of people in this country, fools, and damned fools, and the latter opens small gun stores.
....I can say that as a former LGS too [I'm not gunist! I have a gun friend!]
Zundfolge
01-31-2021, 11:55
Back when MacVan Maps was still alive, we were a Garmin dealer. Garmin treated their dealers like shit and eventually the retail price of some of their products (particularly the Nuvi) at Walmart was cheaper than our wholesale price from Garmin. So we would keep a couple of Nuvis in stock that we'd bought full retail at Walmart because when we'd tell some people that they could get it cheaper at Walmart they didn't want to go there. But those people paid premium.
Also, gun stores are often "hobby businesses" run by hobbiests not businessmen.
Here is the other thing that is likely...almost every store you go to will have some items that are over priced. Be it an accident...just based on what they had to pay...or by intent...this is true of almost every store out there. Not just lgs.
hollohas
01-31-2021, 12:52
As a side note, I predict the LGS is going to be a bigger part of our future. They've (liberals) been wanting to ban at minimum online ammo sales for years. I suspect banning online gun sales (even though shipped to LGS) will be including in that wish list.
Online gun stores are in the liberal crosshairs. LGS or big box may soon be our only option for some stuff.
Great-Kazoo
01-31-2021, 18:47
As a side note, I predict the LGS is going to be a bigger part of our future. They've (liberals) been wanting to ban at minimum online ammo sales for years. I suspect banning online gun sales (even though shipped to LGS) will be including in that wish list.
Online gun stores are in the liberal crosshairs. LGS or big box may soon be our only option for some stuff.
It's the CA ammo sales, model.
Permits & waiting times to buy ammo along with restricted quantities.
Then when the health dept & epa join hands to regulate reloading components
Safe storage of hazmat materials, will be regulated as an environmental issue. SO proper storage of, as well as correct air filtration system. Because the "potential" for airborne fumes to cause health hazards within the neighborhood. THEN a non-porous floor and walls, to prevent leaching of hazmat items in to the ground water. Even if you lived in the mojave desert, we can't have a possible flood, poison our ground water, can we ?
eddiememphis
02-01-2021, 17:08
As a side note, I predict the LGS is going to be a bigger part of our future. They've (liberals) been wanting to ban at minimum online ammo sales for years. I suspect banning online gun sales (even though shipped to LGS) will be including in that wish list.
Online gun stores are in the liberal crosshairs. LGS or big box may soon be our only option for some stuff.
Not just ammo sales.
From Joe Biden's website-
"End the online sale of firearms and ammunitions. Biden will enact legislation to prohibit all online sales of firearms, ammunition, kits, and gun parts."
https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/
Kazoo forgot to mention going after manufacturing and transportation of these incredibly dangerous components.
Zundfolge
02-01-2021, 18:04
As a side note, I predict the LGS is going to be a bigger part of our future.
Won't be part of mine ... I'm not getting the license.
As I said before, if I own a gun store, I got to have a shooting range as well.
It is one of those "All-or-None" (AON) fill order.
ChunkyMonkey
02-02-2021, 11:26
I really like to support local as much as I can, but I'm concerned about some business practices I've seen locally, and wondering if anyone can explain a different perspective?
As a case study, I recently picked up a P365XL, and want an optic for it. A local shop reported getting in some Sig Romeo Zero sights in...far from top of the line, but I figured might be good enough to try one out for a while before upgrading. I saw these on sale online for $160 last week, can be picked up easily elsewhere for $190, and have an MSRP of $220. As I'm happy to pay a little more to support local, I figured I'd be paying MSRP.
I get there, and find them marked $270. I can understand higher markup for low supply items (after all, mark things too low and people just buy to resell), but these are plentiful out there.
What is the thought process here? Is it an attempt to hope people don't know any better in the buying frenzy just to get what's in stock? In my view, local shops have a limited number of people coming through (unlike Cheaper Than Dirt and the constant supply of people online), and even if someone DOES pay that price, eventually there's a good chance they're going to find out and are going to remember, and what's going to happen to stores when demand drops down and people start avoiding the places that they feel jacked up the prices on them? Not talking ammo and such here that's gone up everywhere and is in high demand, just other accessories that are still plentiful
Am I missing another perspective here?
Ours are marked $269. Or if you are on our email list.. its published at $189. To be honest - the new comers or folks that come in once every 8 years due to the panic buying them are ruining the market, so we are publishing our sales exclusively to the 8000 something loyal customers. Obviously, this is just one perspective.
There are few gun stores that I have been in to that I would consider to be run by an actual businessman. How many places have you been to where the emoloyees are rude, the store consists of one small case with a handful of glocks and revolvers, 3 or 4 sporting rifles, a few shotguns, some boxes of over priced ammo and a rack of Magpul parts? How does a place like that even pay rent? I have an idea/plan for what I think would blow anything else away business wise but I'm a little sceptical about the long term market for firearms to dive in right now.
Some worship and love businesses who nickel and dime customers due to pandemic. Paying extra 50% premium should be nothing for those. [LOL]
Nothing justifies companies or shops who had hidden fees even after nuclear fallout.
Circuits
02-02-2021, 16:37
https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/
Kazoo forgot to mention going after manufacturing and transportation of these incredibly dangerous components.
I got the gun side covered, since I can machine and 3d print. I don't have a brass drawing machine, punch and forming dies, powder mill and primer factory, though.
I think it'll mostly be ammo in their crosshairs - maybe need a concealed carry permit to keep any ammo in your own home, even then just enough to fill your two, approved 10-rd magazines, and all other ammo must be bought and used on-site at a licensed range.
It's how the powers that be try to control the military - weapons are drawn for drill far more often than ammo is issued.
sneakerd
02-08-2021, 16:13
Firing Line charges a specific percentage over cost. If we raised prices, it is because the prices were raised to us. Our GM is adamant about NOT raising prices too much. As an example, when we get ammunition, you know, the calibers everyone is looking for, I have complained to him that it is too cheap, and way undermarket. He just tells me I can have his job any time I want it. He may not say those exact words every time, but when he pulls the store keys from his pocket and holds them out to me, that's what it means. Beyond that, FL is literally a little guy in the local market now. Years ago, we were the biggest in town, that has changed, as has our demographic. What will never change seemingly, is that ancient carpet and 70's paneling!
sneakerd
02-08-2021, 16:19
BTW, our floor sticker price for the Sig Romeo Zero sight is $189 for black, $199 for FDE.
Firing Line charges a specific percentage over cost. If we raised prices, it is because the prices were raised to us. Our GM is adamant about NOT raising prices too much. As an example, when we get ammunition, you know, the calibers everyone is looking for, I have complained to him that it is too cheap, and way undermarket. He just tells me I can have his job any time I want it. He may not say those exact words every time, but when he pulls the store keys from his pocket and holds them out to me, that's what it means. Beyond that, FL is literally a little guy in the local market now. Years ago, we were the biggest in town, that has changed, as has our demographic. What will never change seemingly, is that ancient carpet and 70's paneling!
BTW, I went to Firing Line about month ago to purchase Sig p320 x5 or carry magazine. Although it was all out, one young associate helped us with 100% professional courtesy. He was extremely helpful.
He was wearing a hat and carried Glock 19 if that helps.
sneakerd
02-08-2021, 16:36
I appreciate that sir. We will make sure he knows.
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