View Full Version : 2A Sanctuary States
Bailey Guns
02-26-2021, 23:10
Oklahoma is on the verge of becoming a 2A sanctuary state. I believe legislation is also in process in Texas. I'm not sure what it will really mean in terms of citizens of the state being able to ignore any future federal infringements...but it's certainly not a bad thing. I just wish we could pass legislation to forego background checks for gun purchases for those with permits. I miss that about Idaho.
https://klaw.com/oklahoma-to-become-2nd-amendment-sanctuary-state/
Background check are unnecessary and ineffective in the 1st place.
Great-Kazoo
02-27-2021, 00:25
Unlike rmgo and d brown This state's gun org has it together. https://azcdl.org/news-alerts/legislative-update-5/
I get updates on bills in the legislature, as well as links for prewritten emails & letters to send to our rep's . ZERO 3-4x a week emails asking for $$, because of some potential bill in play.
The only time i receive request for $$ is at renewal time and the usual gun raffles they sponsor. I know any $$ spent is going to a worthwhile group, not someone repair bill for their hummer, or off road truck.
HunterCO
02-27-2021, 04:21
Oklahoma is on the verge of becoming a 2A sanctuary state. I believe legislation is also in process in Texas. I'm not sure what it will really mean in terms of citizens of the state being able to ignore any future federal infringements...but it's certainly not a bad thing. I just wish we could pass legislation to forego background checks for gun purchases for those with permits. I miss that about Idaho.
https://klaw.com/oklahoma-to-become-2nd-amendment-sanctuary-state/
It really depends its a gray area. In Montana we have those laws and generally they are followed. I have a family member in ATF know most of the guys at the field office in Billings many of them have been to my house worked on their cars and have hung out with a few of them outdoor activities. They all respect the state and are just as much pro 2A as myself. I have friend who is a us marshal same thing hell he is a bigger gun nut than me. One of the guys at ATF has like 10 plus tax stamps what does that tell you. The problem is the assholes that run ATF not the field agents.
The real key is if the item in question was made in the state and stayed in the state they have no jurisdiction. Under Montana state law I can walk into a store buy a NFA item no questions asked just like a loaf of bred. However federal laws says different. In short this is what I see and hear the people who get stupid get busted. I cant go into details but in short all the people I see get hammered are shit bag criminals doing bad shit they dont mess with the common folk like me.
Your state may differ like anything there is no real answer because I dont own a single gun made in the state of Montana technically the feds can regulate them. Like I said its a very gray area.
Bailey Guns
02-27-2021, 17:51
It really depends its a gray area.
I really don't think it's gray at all. As a matter of fact, I think it's pretty black and white. If I violate a federal law, even if my state says it's not a violation, the state isn't gonna do a damn thing when the feds kick in my door and take me to a federal detention facility.
It would be an entirely different story if, when the feds kicked in the door, 20 or 30 state troopers showed up to help me. But that ain't gonna happen.
HunterCO
02-27-2021, 20:15
I really don't think it's gray at all. As a matter of fact, I think it's pretty black and white. If I violate a federal law, even if my state says it's not a violation, the state isn't gonna do a damn thing when the feds kick in my door and take me to a federal detention facility.
It would be an entirely different story if, when the feds kicked in the door, 20 or 30 state troopers showed up to help me. But that ain't gonna happen.
Forget state troopers the sheriff is who has the say as to what is or is not enforced in their county. My sheriff will never allow any of that to happen.
I really don't think it's gray at all. As a matter of fact, I think it's pretty black and white. If I violate a federal law, even if my state says it's not a violation, the state isn't gonna do a damn thing when the feds kick in my door and take me to a federal detention facility.
It would be an entirely different story if, when the feds kicked in the door, 20 or 30 state troopers showed up to help me. But that ain't gonna happen.
No different than the state vs fed MJ laws.
Bailey Guns
02-28-2021, 08:53
Forget state troopers the sheriff is who has the say as to what is or is not enforced in their county. My sheriff will never allow any of that to happen.
I don't care how gun friendly your sheriff is. He/she doesn't have the juice to stop the feds if they don't want to be stopped.
No different than the state vs fed MJ laws.
In theory, you're right...very similar issues. In practice, not even close to being the same. The federal gov't doesn't really give a shit about Joe Citizen smoking a little dope he purchased at his local "dispensary". There has even been legislation at the federal level to decriminalize weed in order to get in line with what states are doing in terms of legalizing marijuana use. The feds sure as shit aren't looking at becoming more friendly to gun owners...especially those in violation of federal law.
On the other hand, maybe I just have a bad attitude towards the federal government and they really ARE here to help us all.
68Charger
02-28-2021, 16:04
I don't care how gun friendly your sheriff is. He/she doesn't have the juice to stop the feds if they don't want to be stopped.
In theory, you're right...very similar issues. In practice, not even close to being the same. The federal gov't doesn't really give a shit about Joe Citizen smoking a little dope he purchased at his local "dispensary". There has even been legislation at the federal level to decriminalize weed in order to get in line with what states are doing in terms of legalizing marijuana use. The feds sure as shit aren't looking at becoming more friendly to gun owners...especially those that they are trying to entrap as they redefine firearms on a whim.
On the other hand, maybe I just have a bad attitude towards the federal government and they really ARE here to help us all.
FIFY
HunterCO
02-28-2021, 16:29
I don't care how gun friendly your sheriff is. He/she doesn't have the juice to stop the feds if they don't want to be stopped.
Yes the sheriff does its in the constitution a sheriff in wyoming already did it he threw the FBI out of his county. The feds took him to federal court and he won the judge ruled as per the constitution the sheriff is the chief law enforcement officer of the county as well as an elected official. Therefore the sheriff is in charge.
HunterCO
03-01-2021, 01:59
Lets be honest. That sounds great....but, there is no way they could ACTUALLY physically stop the feds if they were determined.
Our Sheriff is great, he lives over here by me. He is a 2a supporter. Do I think he could actually stop the feds? NO. Sure, if they didnt really care to act, he could take them to court like you mentioned.
Lets be honest yes the sheriff can and if you truly believe what you just said then the constitution is nothing more than trash and it means nothing. You might want to read the constitution and understand it.
Bailey Guns
03-01-2021, 08:48
You might want to read the constitution and understand it.
"...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
You know what? I've read that line in the US Constitution and I understand it. Tell me again how well that's working out for all of us because I can't wait to hear about it.
And while we're on the subject of reading and understanding the Constitution, you might want to look at Article VI of the Constitution which says in part:
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
It's pretty clear, in the US Constitution that you're suggesting others "read and understand", that federal law supersedes all other law unless the federal law is unconstitutional.
I wonder what the folks in the Branch Davidian compound in Waco would have to say about that? Or Randy Weaver's wife and son?
And exactly what court case are you referring to in WY? Because I can basically only find mention of one...and it's just some vague docket number that, when searched, is used for various bullshit internet stories talking about various cases...some even in different states. I'd really like to see something concrete to back up your claim a WY sheriff "...threw the FBI out of his county." The closest I can find is in reference to some chickenshit civil matter back in the 90s that no one cares about. I'd really like you to produce an actual case. Not saying it didn't happen...but I sure can't find anything. I'm not disputing the fact a sheriff is the chief law enforcement officer of a county in terms of individual states...only your understanding of how much power a county sheriff actually has against the federal government.
Winning a case in court against the feds after the fact is a far cry from stopping an operation in real time being carried out by a federal law enforcement agency when they're on a mission. Lots of dead people have been vindicated after the fact in court and their estates may have prevailed...but the victims of an over-reaching and overzealous federal government are still dead. But, hey...I guess that's a victory, huh?
The sanctuary state thing is mostly lip service. It is the Go.P. equivalent to liberals saying the state will be carbon free in 2050.... Their voters say yay, but in practice, it is meaningless. On top of it, it would be selective if it was put into practice, which it is not. Lets say Mr. Meth dealer manufactures a fully automatic M16 and a suppressor inside the border of Montana. He has no felony history yet, but the Sheriff doesn't like him. They search his house for drugs, but find only the M16. Is anyone, with a straight face, saying that guy isn't getting NFA charges?
But sure, if the Sheriff likes you, you're probably good. Except that has nothing to do with what is legal and isn't, and everything to do with what is fucked with the American judicial system. Unless equally applied, selective enforcement is simply corruption. And unless these things were equally applied, and the state actually fought the federal im EVERY case, they are entirely meaningless, equal to a "promotion" that changes only your job title. And there is no state that is doing that...or fighting any instance I am aware of. The state would also lose. I live pragmatically, the ideal of "my rights" is great, but living by the ideal wont be too successful preaching about the constitution from behind steel bars.
HunterCO
03-01-2021, 11:24
"...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
You know what? I've read that line in the US Constitution and I understand it. Tell me again how well that's working out for all of us because I can't wait to hear about it.
And while we're on the subject of reading and understanding the Constitution, you might want to look at Article VI of the Constitution which says in part:
It's pretty clear, in the US Constitution that you're suggesting others "read and understand", that federal law supersedes all other law unless the federal law is unconstitutional.
I wonder what the folks in the Branch Davidian compound in Waco would have to say about that? Or Randy Weaver's wife and son?
And exactly what court case are you referring to in WY? Because I can basically only find mention of one...and it's just some vague docket number that, when searched, is used for various bullshit internet stories talking about various cases...some even in different states. I'd really like to see something concrete to back up your claim a WY sheriff "...threw the FBI out of his county." The closest I can find is in reference to some chickenshit civil matter back in the 90s that no one cares about. I'd really like you to produce an actual case. Not saying it didn't happen...but I sure can't find anything. I'm not disputing the fact a sheriff is the chief law enforcement officer of a county in terms of individual states...only your understanding of how much power a county sheriff actually has against the federal government.
Winning a case in court against the feds after the fact is a far cry from stopping an operation in real time being carried out by a federal law enforcement agency when they're on a mission. Lots of dead people have been vindicated after the fact in court and their estates may have prevailed...but the victims of an over-reaching and overzealous federal government are still dead. But, hey...I guess that's a victory, huh?
You are entitled to think as you wish I just call it as it is. You can think as you wish you might want to look at whats happening in many states. Federal law does not over rule state law in many cases unless it involves interstate commerce. You missed that part of the constitution.
Bailey Guns
03-01-2021, 12:50
You are entitled to think as you wish I just call it as it is. You can think as you wish you might want to look at whats happening in many states. Federal law does not over rule state law in many cases unless it involves interstate commerce. You missed that part of the constitution.
Whatever, dude. I just posted the text of the supremacy clause from Article VI of the Constitution that clearly states federal law is, in general, the "supreme Law of the Land". Those aren't my words. Those are the words the founders wrote into it.
And I need to look at what's happening in many states? Seriously? I started the thread. Obviously that's exactly what this is about.
And, BTW... I'll be waiting for some sort of article or other item that corroborates your WY case where the sheriff kicked the FBI out of his county. Really interested to see that.
Bailey Guns
03-01-2021, 13:24
I live pragmatically, the ideal of "my rights" is great, but living by the ideal wont be too successful preaching about the constitution from behind steel bars.
Exactly.
Bailey Guns
03-01-2021, 13:34
Yes the sheriff does its in the constitution a sheriff in wyoming already did it he threw the FBI out of his county. The feds took him to federal court and he won the judge ruled as per the constitution the sheriff is the chief law enforcement officer of the county as well as an elected official. Therefore the sheriff is in charge.
One more thing... Can you show me where the word "sheriff" is mentioned in the US Constitution? I can't seem to find it.
One more thing... Can you show me where the word "sheriff" is mentioned in the US Constitution? I can't seem to find it.
It doesn't, but would fall under 10th Amendment according to the court. Except... it never happened apparently.
Here's an article/thread about that hoax:
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-48801.html
Bailey Guns
03-01-2021, 14:35
It was on the internet so it must be true.
This conversation reminds me of what Reagan said about liberals knowing so much "that isn't true".
tric3imagery
03-01-2021, 15:10
Some point, You as individuals will have to make up your own minds.
I'll stick with my Sherriffs,
Constitution isn't debatable. It's already been to court a few times,
I think people that are on the fence, would be better just to sale your stuff. My opinion, https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210301/77cff2f3c1027637a19300d3ba7d5841.jpg
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Bailey Guns
03-01-2021, 16:58
Oh...how timely and clever. Using a meme to point out exactly what's already been said in previous posts in this thread. Way to stay on top of the conversation. [facepalm]
I've already posted the text of the supremacy clause. The only person who is disagreeing with it is the guy you're apparently agreeing with. And no one in this thread is "on the fence". I've pointed out EXACTLY what the Constitution states as opposed to another poster who has posted what he thinks it states or what he wants it to state.
And no one is arguing that you shouldn't back your local sheriff if he/she is supportive of your God-given rights. The point is that the sheriff isn't all powerful relative to the federal government regardless of how much you, or others, would like that to be. That's not an indictment of your sheriff...it's just a fact.
I honestly don't even see how this is debatable...other than some people are ignorant of reality.
Great-Kazoo
03-01-2021, 18:39
Oh...how timely and clever. Using a meme to point out exactly what's already been said in previous posts in this thread. Way to stay on top of the conversation. [facepalm]
I've already posted the text of the supremacy clause. The only person who is disagreeing with it is the guy you're apparently agreeing with. And no one in this thread is "on the fence". I've pointed out EXACTLY what the Constitution states as opposed to another poster who has posted what he thinks it states or what he wants it to state.
And no one is arguing that you shouldn't back your local sheriff if he/she is supportive of your God-given rights. The point is that the sheriff isn't all powerful relative to the federal government regardless of how much you, or others, would like that to be. That's not an indictment of your sheriff...it's just a fact.
I honestly don't even see how this is debatable...other than some people are ignorant of reality.
And others are know it all's .
BTW: that meme or what ever it's called didn't say anything about a Sheriff.
So it looks like a few of us are waiting on that info.
Bailey Guns
03-01-2021, 19:40
Constitution isn't debatable. It's already been to court a few times,
Am I the only one that sees the irony in that statement?
Great-Kazoo
03-01-2021, 23:59
Am I the only one that sees the irony in that statement?
[pick-me]
HunterCO
03-02-2021, 06:28
One more thing... Can you show me where the word "sheriff" is mentioned in the US Constitution? I can't seem to find it.
could you show me where it says ar-15 I cant seem to find that either? Carl its all good we will just have to agree to disagree.
Bailey Guns
03-02-2021, 06:45
could you show me where it says ar-15 I cant seem to find that either? Carl its all good we will just have to agree to disagree.
No problem... It's nothing personal anyway. But, I didn't say "AR-15" was mentioned in the constitution.
A good litmus test for "is a sanctuary state real"... Find a manufacturer who advertises, in public, the manufacture and sale of NFA firearms to residents of their state without a tax stamp amd background check. No? Nobody? Anyone spartacus? The thing is, at the core, its common knowledge the state isn't saving you from the pokey, and no matter what some fluff bill said, the individual would be going there. As much as they wont admit it, all know these laws are ENTIRELY hollow.
Rucker61
03-02-2021, 07:31
[pick-me]
Teacher's pet, teacher's pet.
Great-Kazoo
03-02-2021, 08:27
Teacher's pet, teacher's pet.
I know you are, But what am i
tric3imagery
03-07-2021, 16:38
Am I the only one that sees the irony in that statement?Seems many people will fold, if Heil Biden says, so, that was in reference to a previous post,
Constitution is our country, this discussion has to much irony.
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