My Crusade against Boulder - wanna join?

[Bailey Guns]

I've recently entered into a battle with the City of Boulder Open Space and Mountain Parks (OSMP) office regarding the wording of their regulation regarding Weapons and Firearms on OSMP properties.

I first became aware of the regulation while browsing the Colorado Concealed Carry forums. A member there had posted a comment about this regulation. At the time, the regulation read:

Weapons and Firearms: Visitors with weapons jeopardize the safety of other visitors and wildlife. Prohibiting firearms also protects structures and facilities from vandalism due to target practice.
Possession or discharge of a firearm or weapon including paint ball guns is prohibited on OSMP.Besides being illegal, I found this very offensive to all law-abiding citizens who legally carry concealed. 18-12-214 is very clear that a local jurisdiction cannot restrict lawful concealed carry in city parks. Also, case law exists that makes it even more clear that only the state can regulate concealed carry in this type of location (City and County of Denver v State of Colorado).

So, I emailed the offices of OSMP and explained that the regulation was not only illegal, it was offensive to law-abiding citizens who exercise their right to carry concealed for protection. I promptly received an email back that said:

Thank you for your comments. Your statement about the concealed weapons law is true. If you possess a concealed weapons permit in Colorado, you are permitted to carry a concealed weapon on OSMP lands. My Co-Supervisor, Pete Taylor, left you a phone message and I encourage you to call him if you would like to discuss the matter further. In regards to the wording of our regulation, please feel free to contact the city attorney about your concerns.

Jean Koszalka
Co-Supervisor/Lead Ranger
City of Boulder Open Space and Mountain ParksAfter reading the email I had a nice phone conversation about this issue with Pete Taylor. Nice guy and sympathetic to my concerns. He also stated the regulation could not legally prohibit a person with a concealed handgun permit from carrying in the OSMP. That was a week ago. Just for grins I checked the OSMP website today to see if the regulation wording had been changed. It had. It now reads:

Weapons and Firearms: Possession or discharge of a firearm or weapon, including paint ball guns, is prohibited on OSMP.Obviously, it's been changed but it hasn't been fixed. This time, I took Ms Koszalka's advice and sent an email letter to the City Attorney's office. This is what I wrote:
_____
Good day!

I've had a few conversations via email and/or phone with Pete Taylor and Jean Koszalka, supervising rangers in the Boulder Open Space and Mountain Parks office regarding the wording of the OSMP regulation regarding weapons on OSMP property.

My concern is the wording of the regulation under the heading "Weapons and Firearms". The regulation states:

“Possession or discharge of a firearm or weapon, including paint ball guns, is prohibited on OSMP.”

Pete Taylor (Supervising Ranger, OSMP) assured me that lawful concealed carry was legal and permissible on OSMP property. However, that's not what the regulation states and in my opinion the wording of the regulation shows contempt for not only Colorado state law, but towards lawful concealed carry by properly permitted persons. I'm sure you know Colorado state law, specifically with regards to lawful concealed carry of handguns, prohibits the City of Boulder (and all other jurisdictions) from restricting the lawful carry of a concealed handgun by a properly permitted person in this area of the state (reference CRS 18-12-214).

Furthermore, case law (City and County of Denver vs State of Colorado, ruling by Judge Meyers in 2004) supports lawful concealed carry in city parks. Part of Judge Meyers ruling reads:


"However, the City's local concern for policing its own parks collides with the statewide statutory scheme governing carrying concealed handguns with a permit. The City has admitted that concealed carry is an area of mixed state and local concern. As stated above, the State's creation of uniform regulations on concealed carry predominates. Since the ordinance prohibiting all firearms in parks conflicts with the state statutes on concealed carry, the ordinance is preempted by state law only as to concealed handguns carried with a permit."Therefore, I urge you to examine the wording of the OSMP regulation regarding carry on OSMP property. I would suggest something along the following lines:

Weapons and Firearms: Open carry or display of firearms, including air guns or paintball guns, on OSMP property is prohibited. This regulation shall in no way restrict lawful concealed carry of a handgun by persons with a valid concealed handgun permit while on OSMP property.While that wording specifically would exempt permit holders from the regulation, it would not address concerns regarding other lawfully carried weapons such as pocket knives - which are legal and commonly carried by many people. But that should be a fairly easy addition to the regulation.

I urge you to immediately review this illegal regulation and instruct the OSMP officials to rewrite the regulation in order to comply with state law.

Sincerely,
....
__________

Anyway, I know it's a long post but I'm tired of bureaucrats thinking they're above the law. If any of you feel compelled to contact the City of Boulder OSMP or the Boulder City Attorney's Office (you'll have to Google...they have a contact form on their website) I would encourge you to do that. Alternatively, you can reach Supervising Ranger Pete Taylor at 303-413-7621. Pete and I had a very cordial conversation and he was very open to my suggestions.

Rant over...for now.

[Irving]

Very nice work. You sound like you were always polite and professional, not to mention well spoken, keep us updated please.

[GreenScoutII]

Wow.. Considering its the People's republik of Boulder we're talking about, I'm not surprised. I applaud your efforts and I giggle a little bit when I think of how it must have made their liberal asses twitch to be forced to admit citizens have the right to carry on the land in question.

Back in the mid to late 90's I took a part time job at the Checker auto parts store there on 29'th I think it was. Anyway, my oldest daughter was due to be born in a few months and I needed the extra cash. Talk about culture shock!!! I was born and raised in Colorado Springs, the conservative epicenter of the United States. I tell you, boy did I sure feel out of place!!!

Boulder is is some ways a beautiful city. My main observation is that it seems to be stuck in about 1969, the height of the whole "Hippie" era. I never saw so many vintage Volkswagens, so much hemp clothing (and smoking), and I first discovered what pitulie (sp?) oil was. Like I said, culture shock.....

The strongest memory I have of the place was one evening while I was working, this old VW van rolls up. It comes to a stop right in front of the store and a young man gets out. He was shirtless, wearing sandals, and some kind of homemade garment wrapped kind of like a towell around his waist. He went around to the other side and opened the sliding door. It looked like scene from Cheech and Chong movie, the cloud of smoke that came out. Out jumps his wife, three small children, and a goat. Yes, a goat. I said to my buddy, Look at that! He says, look at what? Oh, the hippies? Theres a bunch of em' here...

You'll never see that in El Paso county...... Like I said, culture shock...

[Daniel_187]

I live in Boulder County and when I walk my dogs out in the Open space I carry, I say Fuck you I pay my taxes leave me the fuck alone.

[7idl]

there is still problems with all of that..

how about:

"discharge of a firearm for reasons other than defence of life and/or property is prohibited in OSMP areas"

there are bad people everywhere, as well as bears, mountain lions and who knows what else.

people need to stop being pussy's.

[Irving]

Except the real hippies of the '60's were all about individual rights. Can't say that now.

[GreenScoutII]

Except the real hippies of the '60's were all about individual rights. Can't say that now.

So true...

I know a genuine old school Hippy. The guy is probably about 60 or so now. Still has the beads and grannie glasses, the whole ensemble.. The old boy loves to shoot though! Some of you guys in the Springs probably have seen him around Rampart. Had a couple of AK's which I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't come home with him from Vietnam.

Even though I was raised in the Springs in an Uber-Republican family, I'm a Libertarian now. Old Hippies are OK by me.

[palepainter]

It is ironic that they arent concerned about all the dope being sold in the Pearl St Mall, but yet want you to keep your guns at home while visiting the parks....

[Ed_S]

It is ironic that they arent concerned about all the dope being sold in the Pearl St Mall, but yet want you to keep your guns at home while visiting the parks....

Pearl St. Hippies annoy the hell out of me. You know its bad when even your young kids ask you why the 'strange people' look dirty and smell.

Back to the original thread though - Manners maketh man!

[sniper7]

that looks like a great post, and sounds like you are on the correct path.
have you submitted them to RMGO yet? they would like to know about all places that are breaking the law enacting local restrictions like this that go directly against state law.

Hopefully the city attorney is smart enough to know a small law suit backed by RMGO and the NRA would easily win against their local restriction giving them bad publicity which is not what they want.

Depending on his response I might put in a little blurb in my response about notifying these two groups and letting them know about the illegal activities.

Great job getting something out of them. i would call the pete guy back and tell him it isn't fixed.

[Mtn.man]

I sent them a letter several years ago but it wasn't as nice..

Nanoo Nanoo

[Bailey Guns]

that looks like a great post, and sounds like you are on the correct path.
have you submitted them to RMGO yet? they would like to know about all places that are breaking the law enacting local restrictions like this that go directly against state law.

Hopefully the city attorney is smart enough to know a small law suit backed by RMGO and the NRA would easily win against their local restriction giving them bad publicity which is not what they want.

Depending on his response I might put in a little blurb in my response about notifying these two groups and letting them know about the illegal activities.

Great job getting something out of them. i would call the pete guy back and tell him it isn't fixed.

Actually, I CC'd RMGO and CSSA in my original email (I didn't post it here). I just wanted to give them a chance to make it right knowing other people/organizations were in the loop.

[sniper7]

Actually, I CC'd RMGO and CSSA in my original email (I didn't post it here). I just wanted to give them a chance to make it right knowing other people/organizations were in the loop.


good to know. any reply from either group?

[Bailey Guns]

Not yet. I'm not sure CSSA is really a viable group any longer. I see them at gun shows but rarely see anything other signs of life from them.

[rl45acp]

I grew up in Boulder. I’m one of the few who was not smart enough to leave. The hippies ruined it for us real Boulderites (not that there is anything wrong with being a hippie). It used to be a much better place. Anybody who has been in the area for a looong time will/might remember an old farm house with a big red barn on the north corner of Arapahoe and Cherryvale. My pops, my brother, my mother and I used to shoot there all the time. The old coot that rented that 10 or 15 acres was NuuTTS , but he was a good guy. I remember my pop would take us to King Soopers while open carrying his old 1911. Nobody gave us a second look. Now if we did either of those now-a-days, we wouldn’t ever be able to own guns again. BTW, I kinda hate going there now.

Now it’s a car dealership, or three.

Now-a-days, I live right near open space. I have a few close neighbors ask me to keep an ear out in case they run into a rouge coyote while walking their dogs. They know I can dispatch the coyote in seconds (gods, (goddesses for those hippies) forbid I don’t like killin coyotes). A few of them have asked me about my CCW (that’s why I don’t keep it a secret. The more people willing to get one the better) as they want to safely, and confidently walk their dogs, take a run, ride their bike, etc. I have to reluctantly tell them that it doesn’t apply in most open spaces in BoulderCounty. Then I add, “BUT!! If you are justified in your kill, you probably won’t get convicted of murder, I mean Poaching.” I also note that if you get busted with the firearm(s) in the open space, all bets are off.

I will be on your team. I will go take a picture tomorrow of the sign by my open space to see what it says. Now I wonder if the NRA might help if needed.

With all of us here, I think we are more powerful than we think.

Thanks for starting something,
Rob

[palepainter]

Rob,
Where are you at? I am in Brownsville area of Boulder Unincorporated.

[rl45acp]

Rob,
Where are you at? I am in Brownsville area of Boulder Unincorporated.

Near Centarus High School. Just a hop, skip, and a jump down 287 from you.

RL

[Ah Pook]

Excellent letter! I'd be interested in the response.

I'm more concerned about stepping in dog poo, on Boulder Open Space, then anything else. I'm sure it's just easier to say NO then to give a realistic exception. That seems to follow the USFS pattern too. I have many more issues with the BOSMP than just their carry policies.