View Full Version : And it starts, NO shot, no entry
I see on the news this a.m. that a Bar in Denver has started the trend, NO SHOT NO ENTRY.
How long before more places of business follow? How long before you won't be allowed into a ball field, an arena, an airport, etc without proof?
Does that mean I have to do a shot at the door?
If so, do I at least get to choose the booze?
Fuck'em I'll keep my money then.
cableguy11
04-08-2021, 08:33
Fuck'em I'll keep my money then.
Amen to that!
Yellow star on your chest.
I'll wear it with pride too brudda, let this be the beginning.
Does that mean that the vaccine is available to everyone now? Otherwise it seems early.
Here is an article. Place sounds like a blast.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.9news.com/amp/article/news/health/coronavirus/denver-bar-requires-vaccine/73-f832b08a-0fda-4246-aacb-92f7b485112a
beast556
04-08-2021, 08:47
Fuck'em I'll keep my money then.
This!!!!!!!!!!
Fuck'em I'll keep my money then.
They agree with you.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/miami.cbslocal.com/2021/04/08/denver-bar-max-covid-vaccine/amp/
Scanker19
04-08-2021, 08:54
Does the vaccine even prevent transmission?
whitewalrus
04-08-2021, 08:55
Does that mean that the vaccine is available to everyone now? Otherwise it seems early.
Not yet
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sounds like a snowflake running a bar that caters to other snowflakes. Pass. Not my scene anyways. I?ll just keep drinking with the bikers and oil field workers.
BPTactical
04-08-2021, 09:06
Discriminatory practice, one cannot refuse service due to a "medical" condition.
Fuck you, pay me.
I don't even watch baseball.
68Charger
04-08-2021, 09:35
I don't care to go there- but curious if they would comply with a request for them to provide vaccination proof for their entire staff
.455_Hunter
04-08-2021, 09:43
I don't care to go there- but curious if they would comply with a request for them to provide vaccination proof for their entire staff
That would be racist.
Martinjmpr
04-08-2021, 09:52
I foresee a burgeoning market in fake vaccination cards.
I foresee a burgeoning market in fake vaccination cards.
The woman and I were just discussing this the other day. We came to the exact same conclusion.
OldFogey
04-08-2021, 10:33
It'll be a great opportunity to vote with your bank account. No mask, no entry? Fine. I'll spend my money at places that don't require one. And, as long as memory serves, I'll never return. If enough people do this, businesses may have to choose between virtue signaling or survival.
Find a pregnant woman to start the class-action lawsuit!
Yellow star on your chest.
yep
clodhopper
04-08-2021, 11:03
Find a pregnant woman to start the class-action lawsuit!
That would be no different than Masterpiece cake shop. I say more power to him. If that is his hook to get people in, and it works, great on him. He may find too many avoid his bar and he could have to change his plan. Let the economics of the decision drive it. We have too much govt and lawyers involved in everything, quit demanding even more.
Zundfolge
04-08-2021, 11:21
PDFs of the CDC Vaccine card are easy to find with a quick DDG (or maybe even Google) search.
Print one out, scribble something vaguely intelligible on it and then laminate it (I believe Kinkos was laminating them for free).
That said, I'd rather not patronize a business that makes these kind of political tribalism statements so F-em. You know some portion of the profit they make off of you will be used to support the further erosion of your liberties and destruction of the republic.
So does the bar owner realize that you can still SPREAD and DEVELOPE covid 19 after getting vaccinated? Apparently not because he says this: ""It is primarily the peace of mind that you can sit where you are and not be worrying about who else in the bar might be transmitting COVID," he said.
Experts say people can still spread and even develop COVID-19 after getting a vaccine.
They note the immunity from the vaccine doesn’t begin to emerge until at least 12 days after inoculation.
They add the vaccine doesn’t prevent coronavirus infection. It helps protect against serious illnesses.
Experts advise people who get vaccinated to continue wearing a mask, washing their hands, and maintaining proper physical distancing.
Zundfolge
04-08-2021, 13:45
So does the bar owner realize that you can still SPREAD and DEVELOPE covid 19 after getting vaccinated?
Its not about stopping the spread of the disease, its about signaling one's virtue.
See he's so much more moral than the troglodytes that don't get the injection. So much more pure than the evil Rethuglican Trumpsters that hate brown people by not wearing a mask. He's better than you and he's letting you know it.
Discriminatory practice, one cannot refuse service due to a "medical" condition.
Fuck you, pay me.
Cue HIPAA violation lawsuit in 4...3...2...
I don't care to go there- but curious if they would comply with a request for them to provide vaccination proof for their entire staff
And all of their suppliers, vendors, and their contacts...
PugnacAutMortem
04-08-2021, 14:37
I'd say it's worth treating this business like the activists have been treating Masterpiece Cake shop for the last few years.
I'd say it's worth treating this business like the activists have been treating Masterpiece Cake shop for the last few years.
Never having heard of it, with no intention of going there, but acting outraged online to virtue signal to your team? I'd say we're already there.
clodhopper
04-08-2021, 15:07
If the owner's idea is really that stupid, then encourage him to chase it. And when the bar goes out of business or has to drop that requirement to stay in business, you have a stronger point to make in your next online debate.
Despite all this quibbling, give the guy props, he managed to get free TV advertising for his little hole-in-the-wall watering hole.
OtterbatHellcat
04-09-2021, 03:13
While in a forum, if I say I will, or will not do something...that is not virtue signaling, it is reality.
I won't say I hope his business fails, but I will say he's hurting his own recovery as well as his employees and his potential customers dollars.
Alinsky #4: make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.
Playing nicely with others has not worked in decades.
Aloha_Shooter
04-09-2021, 07:06
He thinks he's doing the right thing for his business and maybe his employees. Time will tell if he's right. A sign like this isn't going to get me to go to a bar or restaurant where the service or product is bad or even mediocre, neither is the lack of a sign.
I'd certainly rather have had bars and restaurants decide for themselves whether to cater to smokers or militant non-smokers than have a law passed and I detest cigarette smoke.
Great-Kazoo
04-09-2021, 07:14
Does that mean that the vaccine is available to everyone now? Otherwise it seems early.
IN AZ yes. They have opened up vaccine to anyone over 16, or was it 18?
Great-Kazoo
04-09-2021, 07:19
Does the vaccine even prevent transmission?
Funny you should ask that question.
I received an email last week, regarding a get together that was being cancelled. Due to one of the sponsors testing + for the virus.
While they are an educated person, i found this sentence to be another misconception about the vaccine. YET, something so many believe to be true.
I want to say this------I am fully vaccinated and have been since February. Therefore, it was shocking to get this positive result.
Which i keep trying to impress on people. IT'S A VACCINE, NOT A CURE!
Funny you should ask that question.
I received an email last week, regarding a get together that was being cancelled. Due to one of the sponsors testing + for the virus.
While they are an educated person, i found this sentence to be another misconception about the vaccine. YET, something so many believe to be true.
I want to say this------I am fully vaccinated and have been since February. Therefore, it was shocking to get this positive result.
Which i keep trying to impress on people. IT'S A VACCINE, NOT A CURE!
AMEN - it's hard to believe how we went from curious and inquisitive to know the truth to a people who are spoon fed from the media all day long, and who see a post of Facebook and tout that as truth. Scary.
StagLefty
04-09-2021, 08:01
IN AZ yes. They have opened up vaccine to anyone over 16, or was it 18?
Colorado did the same thing last Friday I believe.
I support business owners being able to define their own terms as to who can patronize them so long as it isn't "white people only/black people only". It isn't a government mandate so I'm a bit confused as to what the outrage is. The owner applies his own reasons to his own decisions and doesn't seem to advocate it for other businesses... meh. Businesses should be able to have a dress code if they want too. At the end of the day, it's their property and their wallet affected if they apply dumb decisions to their own operations, but nothing requires us to patronize them nor is their any lack of options or other places to go to.
Now if a town mandated it, that's a different story.
I support business owners being able to define their own terms as to who can patronize them so long as it isn't "white people only/black people only". It isn't a government mandate so I'm a bit confused as to what the outrage is. The owner applies his own reasons to his own decisions and doesn't seem to advocate it for other businesses... meh. Businesses should be able to have a dress code if they want too. At the end of the day, it's their property and their wallet affected if they apply dumb decisions to their own operations, but nothing requires us to patronize them nor is their any lack of options or other places to go to.
Now if a town mandated it, that's a different story.
Sure, it?s just one small business. What if a larger company took a similar stance? Or several larger companies. Let?s say United airlines, Delta airlines, Southwest, and pretty much every airline decided that in order to fly in their airlines you needed to show them some sort of medical records?
clodhopper
04-09-2021, 08:55
Sure, it?s just one small business. What if a larger company took a similar stance? Or several larger companies. Let?s say United airlines, Delta airlines, Southwest, and pretty much every airline decided that in order to fly in their airlines you needed to show them some sort of medical records?
Many of the bigger businesses like airlines are regulated, so unlikely. But even if they did, let them suffer the consequences. I am assuming a covid card here. Any requirement to have access to your medical records would immediately end up in court, so pretty unlikely.
Scanker19
04-09-2021, 09:09
I support business owners being able to define their own terms as to who can patronize them so long as it isn't "white people only/black people only". It isn't a government mandate so I'm a bit confused as to what the outrage is. The owner applies his own reasons to his own decisions and doesn't seem to advocate it for other businesses... meh. Businesses should be able to have a dress code if they want too. At the end of the day, it's their property and their wallet affected if they apply dumb decisions to their own operations, but nothing requires us to patronize them nor is their any lack of options or other places to go to.
Now if a town mandated it, that's a different story.
I normally fall under this thought as well, but where does it stop? Just race? Is it you can?t discriminate against things you can?t change? Height? Or can I exclude religions too. No fat people?
Imagine a place that said if you have AIDS you can?t be in here, out of fear of transmission? Where does ADA end and civil right begin? The argument I?ve heard with people with mask exceptions from a doctor is that the private buis ness can say you still can?t come in without a mask. Okay that?s great, can they also say, ?sorry wheels, no ramp for you, stairs only here, private business and such??
It?s a slippery slope of what a ?private business? that?s open to the public can restrict.
Many of the bigger businesses like airlines are regulated, so unlikely. But even if they did, let them suffer the consequences. I am assuming a covid card here. Any requirement to have access to your medical records would immediately end up in court, so pretty unlikely.
Airlines might have been a bad example due to government overwatch and regulations.
And you wouldn't consider a "covid card" a medical record?
I normally fall under this thought as well, but where does it stop? Just race? Is it you can?t discriminate against things you can?t change? Height? Or can I exclude religions too. No fat people?
Imagine a place that said if you have AIDS you can?t be in here, out of fear of transmission? Where does ADA end and civil right begin? The argument I?ve heard with people with mask exceptions from a doctor is that the private buis ness can say you still can?t come in without a mask. Okay that?s great, can they also say, ?sorry wheels, no ramp for you, stairs only here, private business and such??
It?s a slippery slope of what a ?private business? that?s open to the public can restrict.
I mean ADA already protects the handicap access, but I don't think it is a slippery slope, in fact I would argue the reverse being a slippery slope. By way of example:
If you can't discriminate against height...
We're going to have to shut down 1/2 of amusment park rides permanently for safety.
If you can't discriminate against fat people....
Airlines are going to have a fun time hiring the 400 pound woman as a flight attendant to fulfill their affirmative fatction quota.
If you can't discriminate against medical conditions...
I challenge you to board the airplane piloted by the guy with full-blown AIDS and a cardiac condition.
Someone better sue playboy for not posting a 550 lbs 75 year old man on the cover too. That's AGE, SEX and WEIGHT discrimination.
Another good example for the parents here:
Do you look at babysitters as all being equal? Are you just as likely to hire the 45 year old single mustached man as the 25 year old college girl to babysit your little girls?
It's easy to be an idealist and say that people SHOULDNT discriminate, but we in fact agree with a good portion of discrimination in our lives, and it will be a hot mess of garbage if we ever get to the point where you can't make your own business choices.
clodhopper
04-09-2021, 14:21
Much of the discrimination in private business has to do with available options. If every similar business around denies the same people, that would be discrimination. Jim Crow kind of thing. But a single business putting in place unique limitations when there is a raft of other similar private businesses that can serve that person, no discrimination.
And yes, there is judgement involved in that. Too many people seem to forget to bring their rational judgement with them when they venture into the world.
As aggravated as I am about sjw's attempting to use govt to enforce blanket fairness, doing it in reverse is just as wrong. This particular bar owner doesnt deserve to fight lawsuits just cause others with similar ideas are fukwads. Wouldn't it make more sense to celebrate and encourage diversity of ideas and business plans and really drive the inclusion of all concept right up the progressive nose and dare them to nazi it in response. Bait em with their own slippery crap, the very tactic they use on conservatives.
Discrimination against:
-people who cannot afford a health insurance and the cost of vaccine.
-people who are allergic to PFE, MRNA, JNJ, AZN vaccine(s).
-people who are anti-vaxxer
FoxfArt I admire your moxie, but fear that you are woefully naive :)
Someone already said it best, it's a vaccine - this is all the typical hyperbole that occurs, and nobody has to pass an IQ test to own a bar, or apparently to run the country :). The challenge is that power hungry people like Polis love telling others what to do. I still have his video where he talks about the "grime reaper being the final authority". What a leader huh?
Add social media, a liberal and un-free press, bombardment from schools, churches (yes), corporations, etc. to mask up, accept liberal views as fact, refer to people by pronouns, and now believing that you're "in" or "out" based off a couple shots? Crazy train.... I'd say this will sort itself out, but the level of stupid is reaching all-time heights (at least to me).
With all this data/information, people just seem dumber and dumber. Nobody wants to challenge and critical thought makes you a racist, a homophobe, a zealous nut, an extremist, or too religious.
But discrimination? That's tough to prove - why, because it's common place now... Wear a MAGA hat and you are not facing discrimination, you are evil. Have views that are not mainstream and get ostracized for them? You're not progressive or you lack vision, but it's accepted.
Of course, the side benefit of the He/Him/Dude and the She/Her/Chick can be somewhat helpful in letting you know that you don't' really know what people really are anymore, so be careful where you park your johnson...
Great-Kazoo
04-09-2021, 18:03
Airlines might have been a bad example due to government overwatch and regulations.
And you wouldn't consider a "covid card" a medical record?
Not really
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/advice/2021/04/02/covid-vaccine-passport-prove-covid-19-shot-travel-vaccination-card/4839979001/
"There's no vaccine passport in the United States," says Peter Vlitas, senior vice president of airline relations for Internova Travel Group. But we're close. The most promising one is the IATA Travel Pass. It's being tested among 22 airlines, and the airline trade organization expects to release it this month. It will be limited to air travel and border crossings.
Turd Herd immunity is almost there.
Discrimination against:
-people who cannot afford a health insurance and the cost of vaccine.
-people who are allergic to PFE, MRNA, JNJ, AZN vaccine(s).
-people who are anti-vaxxer
Vaccine is 100% free, just saying.
Legit Lying pharmacy corporate store told me $100 not too long ago, when I ask how much it would cost for uninsured.
After reading the thread above, I did some online research. it is in fact FREE even for uninsured.
https://www.verywellhealth.com/covid-19-vaccine-for-uninsured-5090206
Great-Kazoo
04-09-2021, 21:18
Legit Lying pharmacy corporate store told me $100 not too long ago, when I ask how much it would cost for uninsured.
After reading the thread above, I did some online research. it is in fact FREE even for uninsured.
https://www.verywellhealth.com/covid-19-vaccine-for-uninsured-5090206
My spouse was told that by one place doing the vaccine, since her ins didn't cover X items. Then she called around and was (as i already said to her) informed it was free, for all.
https://i.imgur.com/QUucHek.png
OtterbatHellcat
04-10-2021, 05:18
Turd immunity?...that's some funny sheeit right there.
FoxfArt I admire your moxie, but fear that you are woefully naive :)
Am I?
This is a single business whom asked that people who are not vaccinated stay out of his business, and who asserts his parents are "high risk". Some here say "yeah, but what if it snowballs and then it is a whole industry, so they should be sued like mastercakes... etc."
But it is in fact, just a single business, and a massive overreaction. Many argue that he should be forced to do something because of "discrimination". They want their cake, and they are going to eat it too. They employ the opposite arguments when it is LGBTQBBQ at a cake shop.
At least you can say I have a consistent opinion here. Both businesses should be able to turn away whoever the hell they want, so long as it is not in clear violation of long standing law (race, or handicap). When someone is a Christian and anti-vaccine, and they support the former discretion but not the latter, they are not any better than the worst of the progressive elite who want to pick and choose freedom that suits them. They want the christian to have discretion to turn away on the basis of religion, but anyone else, ITS DISCRIMINATION? How do people not recognize the absurdity of the inconsistency there?
Either we are consistent, and support both our own freedoms, as well as freedoms we don't agree with, or we're merely a mirrored world of the socialist left wanting to enforce our world view on the populace.
Now, some argue about airlines or what not, but that is not the subject of the link. It is not an industry pull, it is a single business.
The left pulls the same hat trick when we argue about gun control. If we are responding to an existing attack on high capacity magazines and the actual result of their legislation, they are talking about a non existent epidemic of belt fed machine guns and bazookas being bought at gun shows by felons in the mafia. Here, it is a single business, but it should be sued and he should be harassed into oblivion because of airlines? Am I the only one that sees the absurdity? There is no link, no causation, no relation, no connected risk.
Suing a business owner because he asks patrons to be vaccinated is no different than suing a business owner because he doesn't want to make cakes he disagrees with, or suing an upscale restaurant because they don't want to serve families with young kids.
TLDR: Stop trying to force our worldview on everyone or we are no better than those who are trying to do the same to us.
Fentonite
04-10-2021, 09:36
...Am I the only one that sees the absurdity?
Nope.
Am I?
This is a single business whom asked that people who are not vaccinated stay out of his business, and who asserts his parents are "high risk". Some here say "yeah, but what if it snowballs and then it is a whole industry, so they should be sued like mastercakes... etc."
But it is in fact, just a single business, and a massive overreaction. Many argue that he should be forced to do something because of "discrimination". They want their cake, and they are going to eat it too. They employ the opposite arguments when it is LGBTQBBQ at a cake shop.
At least you can say I have a consistent opinion here. Both businesses should be able to turn away whoever the hell they want, so long as it is not in clear violation of long standing law (race, or handicap). When someone is a Christian and anti-vaccine, and they support the former discretion but not the latter, they are not any better than the worst of the progressive elite who want to pick and choose freedom that suits them. They want the christian to have discretion to turn away on the basis of religion, but anyone else, ITS DISCRIMINATION? How do people not recognize the absurdity of the inconsistency there?
Either we are consistent, and support both our own freedoms, as well as freedoms we don't agree with, or we're merely a mirrored world of the socialist left wanting to enforce our world view on the populace.
Now, some argue about airlines or what not, but that is not the subject of the link. It is not an industry pull, it is a single business.
The left pulls the same hat trick when we argue about gun control. If we are responding to an existing attack on high capacity magazines and the actual result of their legislation, they are talking about a non existent epidemic of belt fed machine guns and bazookas being bought at gun shows by felons in the mafia. Here, it is a single business, but it should be sued and he should be harassed into oblivion because of airlines? Am I the only one that sees the absurdity? There is no link, no causation, no relation, no connected risk.
Suing a business owner because he asks patrons to be vaccinated is no different than suing a business owner because he doesn't want to make cakes he disagrees with, or suing an upscale restaurant because they don't want to serve families with young kids.
TLDR: Stop trying to force our worldview on everyone or we are no better than those who are trying to do the same to us.
Excellent, principled position.
O2
TLDR: Stop trying to force our worldview on everyone or we are no better than those who are trying to do the same to us.
Agree with your perspective here, as a Christian, I do not force my beliefs on anyone - that's up to them, they have free will. However, many conservatives believe that we have tried to play the logic and reason game for decades, only to be defeated by the Left over and over because, well, logic doesn't work. Cancel culture is wrong to me, going after businesses who decide to keep people out due to their decisions sets a bad precedence for sure. We have more lawyers in the US then most anywhere else (or so it seems). We have more laws on the books than we can possibly enforce.
We have infiltration of the government(s) in our nation, the schools, the local, national, and global corporations. I suspect the "na?ve" comment was meant in this vein, not to insult anyone, but to point out the discrepancy.
I'm all for being civil until the last minute, and I agree, if we use their tactics, we are them. But people have free will, and each of us has to approach these things in our own way. Ultimately, your statement about forcing our view is true, and as a Military Vet, I know that we defended both the flag respecting people, and those who chose to burn Old Glory because of their views. I still stand behind that perspective.
But let's face it, there are wolves out there who do not care one bit for our freedoms or our lives - we need to narrow our focus, and address those people (peacefully is the goal) in those arenas where they have infiltrated their dogma. How we do that is to smarter and wiser people than I.
And FTR, I agree with people on the position that airlines shouldn't be banding together to require vaccine "passports". I suspect their will be legal challenges if they try. I don't feel like it's the end of the world or anything quite as bad as some cast it, but it is nevertheless a unnecessary and burdensome requirement that is not justified in the risk, and cost vs. benefit, even more so if it is not coupled with peak risk. [such as requiring it only during limited, high-traffic-in-seasonal risk, like day-before-Thanksgiving/day before Christmas, which would still be a burdensome requirement, but less controlling]
IMHO the risk of serious infection to a vaccinated person is simply not significant enough to justify the inconvenience caused by a requirement for air travel. And passengers who aren't vaccinated of course, accept their own risk, and everyone who wants a vaccine will have obtained one before the next cold and flu season. I still find it baffling that official sources fail to call this a seasonal virus when it so clearly is.
This of course, is entirely off topic but just so people know my perspective is not in any way because I believe everyone should have a shot. I'll be getting mine next week *shrug* but it should remain a personal choice. Likewise, it should be a personal choice whom businesses want to turn away from their doors. Not a government mandated one (either way).
ETA: typo fix. Official sources fail to call
Principles are one thing, reality is another.
In just a short while, vax passports will be required for routine activities.
If I'm wrong, will send Fox a 30rd Pmag
We need more state and local governments to ban them. There is absolutely zero need for them.
Also you can still carry, catch and transmitt the rona while vaxxed. It just helps to reduce the severity of the symptoms if you catch it.
RblDiver
04-11-2021, 07:56
"However, many conservatives believe that we have tried to play the logic and reason game for decades, only to be defeated by the Left over and over because, well, logic doesn't work."
Bingo. In an ideal world, let businesses do as they will because another is in close proximity or will spring up. In reality, we can see this isn't working, and businesses are caving to the most vocal 1%. Thus, it's time to fight fire with fire. Until such time as they learn the true consequences of their actions, I will support using their tactics against them.
"However, many conservatives believe that we have tried to play the logic and reason game for decades, only to be defeated by the Left over and over because, well, logic doesn't work."
Bingo. In an ideal world, let businesses do as they will because another is in close proximity or will spring up. In reality, we can see this isn't working, and businesses are caving to the most vocal 1%. Thus, it's time to fight fire with fire. Until such time as they learn the true consequences of their actions, I will support using their tactics against them.
The suggested strategy is a lot like trying to argue with a narcissist. There is no such thing as winning an argument with a narcissist because the moment you play their game and engage them, they change the rules. When they have no moral backbone, it is foolish to think you can use their own strategy against them. They will just adapt and turn you into a new kind of "bad guy" no matter what position you take.
If you want to win in an argument with a narcissist, you don't play their game in the first place.
Here, since they have a majority of the press, I'm pretty sure "using their tactic" just backfires. It might "feel good" to some people, but it isn't going to accomplish anything. It will be manipulatively recast, and on top of it, will just show new hearts, minds, and souls that there is no better choice to be made when the left fails them.
If you want to beat any manipulative foe, the moment you engage in their game you've already lost. Try winning a board-game against someone who is actively editing the rulebook.
IMAGINE if conservatives celebrated the mans right to make his own business decisions, even when they disagreed with that. I WONDER if several people seeing that announcement would go "hmmm... they support me in my decision, but if I make a tiny gaffe I get riots and a tweet storm from the left. Maybe there is something to these guys..."
But nah. BURN IT DOWN. That'll teach them to convert to conservatism [LOL]
theGinsue
04-11-2021, 09:06
Also you can still carry, catch and transmitt the rona while vaxxed. It just helps to reduce the severity of the symptoms if you catch it.
Generally speaking, I'm not an anti-vaxxer. However, at this point, with too little long term data available as to the effects of the 'Rona vaccine, I'm not willing to receive this vaccination; yet. I've read a LOT of data on both the pro's and the cons of the various rona vaccines out there. Because you can still catch, carry and transmit the virus after vaccination, and with no real long term data available, I think the potential risk of what the vaccine might do to me isn't worth the risk. This is a personal decision and not meant to apply to anyone else.
I travel a lot for work (just spent 3 weeks in 2 different locations in CA in March. I drove there and back.). I have to go back to L.A. for a 4 day trip next month. I've heard discussion (and seen it mentioned here) that the airlines are "considering" requiring passengers be vaccinated in order to fly. Is this yet a hard requirement? My company's "preferred" airlines are United, Delta and American (in that order). Are any of these airlines already mandating the vaccine?
NFATrustGuy
04-11-2021, 10:13
Generally speaking, I'm not an anti-vaxxer. However, at this point, with too little long term data available as to the effects of the 'Rona vaccine, I'm not willing to receive this vaccination; yet. I've read a LOT of data on both the pro's and the cons of the various rona vaccines out there. Because you can still catch, carry and transmit the virus after vaccination, and with no real long term data available, I think the potential risk of what the vaccine might do to me isn't worth the risk. This is a personal decision and not meant to apply to anyone else.
I travel a lot for work (just spent 3 weeks in 2 different locations in CA in March. I drove there and back.). I have to go back to L.A. for a 4 day trip next month. I've heard discussion (and seen it mentioned here) that the airlines are "considering" requiring passengers be vaccinated in order to fly. Is this yet a hard requirement? My company's "preferred" airlines are United, Delta and American (in that order). Are any of these airlines already mandating the vaccine?
I'm an airline pilot by day, but not for any of the carriers you've mentioned. I haven't heard of any airline requiring a vaccine to fly. I believe all airlines are enforcing a mask requirement for passengers and employees. It is my understanding that the use of a clear face shield is not acceptable in lieu of an actual mask, but if you plan to wear a shield instead of a mask, it'd be worth checking with the particular choice of airline for specifics on their mask requirements.
For what it's worth, there's kinda a blanket exception for the cockpit crew in that we can lose the masks if it inhibits our ability to do our jobs. From what I've seen and heard in discussing it with other pilots, almost every flight deck crew removes the masks once the cockpit door is closed. We make it a point to don a mask for bathroom breaks and whenever in view of the passengers.
My biggest concern is that the airlines will start requiring vaccination for all employees. I don't have the energy or desire to be a test case for a big legal battle and I've been told that there's precedent supporting employers requiring vaccinations for employees as a condition of continued employment. I haven't taken time to do the legal research on my own because, frankly, I think I'd be wasting my time to oppose it even if I'm right. I have zero faith that our union (ALPA) will do anything but bend to whatever the winds of public opinion are blowing at the time. There's no way I'm going to give up a very well-paying job and throw away 20+ years of career advancement, so I expect I'll eventually be vaccinated.
I was listening to radio and they were pushing for HPV vaccines for kids.
No vaccine, no touching of peepee/VaJJ.
I though I heard KOA last week from someone they were interviewing that Delta and American Airlines were looking into rona vax passports to be required for thier flights. Same for the cruise industry.
BladesNBarrels
04-11-2021, 16:11
Vaccine cards - too big to put in a wallet, poor quality production.
In the 60's, I traveled in Europe and Africa with a military ID and my shot record - a small folding document that listed date and type of every shot.
No passport.
Times change, trust changes, and criminals figure stuff out fast.
Fentonite
04-11-2021, 21:59
Also you can still carry, catch and transmitt the rona while vaxxed. It just helps to reduce the severity of the symptoms if you catch it.
While that’s possible, it’s much less likely than we initially thought. A recent study shows:
“ Under real-world conditions, mRNA vaccine effectiveness of full immunization (≥14 days after second dose) was 90% against SARS-CoV-2 infections regardless of symptom status; vaccine effectiveness of partial immunization (≥14 days after first dose but before second dose) was 80%.” (Source below)
Not only is it showing to be phenomenal at preventing infection (and therefore transmission), it seems that the 10% of fully immunized folks who could get infected are quite unlikely to transmit it to others, since their immune response squashes the virus before it replicates to levels needed to transmit. (I’ve heard this from a few Infectious Disease docs, but can’t point to a written source, FWIW)
Good news, but it is still too new to know if I’ll have a tail sometime in the future...
Source:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7013e3.htm?s_cid=mm7013e3_w
I guess I'm in the minority here and remember when people thought vaccines were great and had all but knocked out measles, mumps, rubella, small pox, polio and a few others from the US. Or followed directions when it was recommended to get a yellow fever shot before traveling to SE Asia. If you have been in the military, you've probably had so many repeats and boosters, not to mention what was in a few experimental ones we were forced to take. Looking at you anthrax series of 6 shots. [Mad] I'll admit, I was bad at keeping track of my yellow shot record while in the Army, and my medical records folder failed to make to at least two separate vax events, so I know I had repeats just to make sure I was in compliance with SOFA's for deployments and training ops.
.455_Hunter
04-12-2021, 08:44
I guess I'm in the minority here and remember when people thought vaccines were great...
Everybody in my family is getting vaccinated as soon as possible- My elderly parents are done, and my wife got the single dose J&J a few weeks ago. My brother gets Moderna #2 and I get Pfizer #2 next week.
Everybody in my family is getting vaccinated as soon as possible- My elderly parents are done, and my wife got the single dose.J&J a few weeks ago. My brother gets Moderna #2 and I get Pfizer #2 next week.
Ditto, second shots coming up soon. My 5G didn't improve, so the chips not working[ROFL1]
BladesNBarrels
04-12-2021, 10:19
I guess I'm in the minority here and remember when people thought vaccines were great and had all but knocked out measles, mumps, rubella, small pox, polio and a few others from the US. Or followed directions when it was recommended to get a yellow fever shot before traveling to SE Asia. If you have been in the military, you've probably had so many repeats and boosters, not to mention what was in a few experimental ones we were forced to take. Looking at you anthrax series of 6 shots. [Mad] I'll admit, I was bad at keeping track of my yellow shot record while in the Army, and my medical records folder failed to make to at least two separate vax events, so I know I had repeats just to make sure I was in compliance with SOFA's for deployments and training ops.
I was a Polio Pioneer in grade school in the 50's in Salt Lake City.
All school children participated, and received a vaccine or placebo, no questions asked or even contemplated.
I got the placebo, so got to do it all over again the next year after the results were released.
It was a relief to escape the dread of doing anything that might result in getting Polio.
I guess I'm in the minority here and remember when people thought vaccines were great and had all but knocked out measles, mumps, rubella, small pox, polio and a few others from the US.
I think it's mostly just the normal reaction to being told to do something, especially by the government. People threw a fit about seat belts in cars. I've heard some of the dumbest arguments about motorcycle helmets. I heard an opinion on something, and I'm not even sure it was about the vaccine. Essentially the person was saying that when something new comes along, the outage is fierce, but after everyone gets over the initial anger and life goes on, it's hard to even remember the initial arguments against whatever was put into place. Unless people start dying or getting bellybutton cancer from these vaccines, then I'm sure this will be much the same.
Aloha_Shooter
04-12-2021, 15:46
Sure, it?s just one small business. What if a larger company took a similar stance? Or several larger companies. Let?s say United airlines, Delta airlines, Southwest, and pretty much every airline decided that in order to fly in their airlines you needed to show them some sort of medical records?
From an intellectual consistency standpoint, I'd have to give the same response I do to people who want to take their emotional support animals (i.e., pets -- NOT trained and registered service animals) onboard or the people who want all flights sterilized against every possible allergen or who don't want to relinquish their sidearm while traveling: drive (or in the case of overseas travel, sail).
I don't want a vaccine passport either but I can understand why the airlines might want passengers to show proof they have taken reasonable steps to avoid infecting others. Infecting the crew can have drastic effects on their operations. Infecting other passengers exposes the airlines to expensive lawsuits and settlements over something they can't control.
The thing I can't stand about Leftists is their desire to impose government control over free enterprise and remove actual freedom of choice. I don't want to be the mirror image of that which I despise.
Have there been ANY instances of a Covid outbreak from a flight? The pilots don't even wear face masks, and everyone takes off their masks to eat, which means that it doesn't matter for the rest of the flight either.
Great-Kazoo
04-12-2021, 16:32
Have there been ANY instances of a Covid outbreak from a flight? The pilots don't even wear face masks, and everyone takes off their masks to eat, which means that it doesn't matter for the rest of the flight either.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-lowest-number-of-daily-cases-since-mid-december-glynn-1.4534328
I don't see the relevance.
Bailey Guns
04-13-2021, 05:57
While that’s possible, it’s much less likely than we initially thought. A recent study shows:
“ Under real-world conditions, mRNA vaccine effectiveness of full immunization (≥14 days after second dose) was 90% against SARS-CoV-2 infections regardless of symptom status; vaccine effectiveness of partial immunization (≥14 days after first dose but before second dose) was 80%.” (Source below)
Not only is it showing to be phenomenal at preventing infection (and therefore transmission), it seems that the 10% of fully immunized folks who could get infected are quite unlikely to transmit it to others, since their immune response squashes the virus before it replicates to levels needed to transmit. (I’ve heard this from a few Infectious Disease docs, but can’t point to a written source, FWIW)
Good news, but it is still too new to know if I’ll have a tail sometime in the future...
Source:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7013e3.htm?s_cid=mm7013e3_w
This is the sort of stuff that convinced me to get vaccinated. I'm not convinced it's 100% safe. I'm also not convinced it's going to alter my DNA and cause me to grow a second head or some other terrible thing. I'm also not going to be passing my DNA on at this stage of my life, altered or not.
I looked at both sides of the argument and decided it was appropriate for me. I don't advocate it for everyone. I understand the concerns. One isn't an idiot if they get the vaccine just like they're not an idiot if they decide it's not for them. It's a personal choice. I was at a Tractor Supply store listening to some loudmouth standing outside just railing about how stupid people were for taking the vaccine. I was waiting for about 5 mins for a gun safe to be brought around and loaded in my truck. During that time Mr Loudmouth smoked AT LEAST 3 cigarettes and was drinking one of those drum-sized sodas. But I'm an idiot for getting the vaccine.
Aloha_Shooter
04-13-2021, 07:32
Have there been ANY instances of a Covid outbreak from a flight? The pilots don't even wear face masks, and everyone takes off their masks to eat, which means that it doesn't matter for the rest of the flight either.
Yes, there have been. There was a well-documented case last summer where a COVID-positive individual flying in first/business class appeared to have infected over half a dozen of the passengers around him/her. It was discussed ad nauseum on FlyerTalk, resulting in many of the frequent flyers deciding they actually would prefer flying in Economy Plus where seating was sparse than in the front which was nearly always full because any passenger with any kind of status could get an upgrade.
Big difference between the cockpit -- its own enclosed airspace -- with another pilot who you trust is also observing safety protocols versus being in a packed passenger cabin, despite the airline rhetoric about how much they refresh the air in flight (and guess what, they AREN'T moving the air that much while the airplane is sitting on the tarmac during boarding/deboarding.
Another source of "truth" out there in media land. I'm betting they could up the rate if they gave out a case of 9mm with each shot 😀.
https://www.newsmax.com/us/Poll-Covid-19-Vaccine/2021/04/14/id/1017619/
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-lowest-number-of-daily-cases-since-mid-december-glynn-1.4534328
It is stuff like this that is unfathomable stupidity in reporting to me. Note this is not directed at you, GK, just the reporting.
Imagine if they ran a news article in the middle of April that said "Flu deaths are the lowest since the November!!!" ... Golly who can predict they will be lower still next month, and lowest in July! But oh no, there will be an unexpected wave come late October.
*bashes head on wall*
funkymonkey1111
04-28-2021, 16:35
https://kdvr.com/news/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccine/cu-csu-will-require-all-faculty-staff-students-to-be-vaccinated-for-fall-semester/
No shot, no higher education
Great-Kazoo
04-28-2021, 17:05
https://kdvr.com/news/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccine/cu-csu-will-require-all-faculty-staff-students-to-be-vaccinated-for-fall-semester/
No shot, no higher education
OR access to senior living, post op rehab.
What's interesting is my heart surgeons , when i told them i was suppose to get the shot from the va. Said, DO NOT get the vaccine, before my surgery, or for anytime down the road. .
hollohas
04-28-2021, 18:56
No shot no higher ed? Meh. When Biden makes higher ed free, it'll be worthless anyway.
OR access to senior living, post op rehab.
What's interesting is my heart surgeons , when i told them i was suppose to get the shot from the va. Said, DO NOT get the vaccine, before my surgery, or for anytime down the road. .
My sister has a pace maker. Her cardiologist said the covid vaccine is too risky.
Great-Kazoo
04-28-2021, 22:11
My sister has a pace maker. Her cardiologist said the covid vaccine is too risky.
So did my cardiologist and thoracic surgeon. I'm scheduled for the vaccine before surgery. DO NOT GET THE VACCINE! Oddly enough there's a lot in the medical profession who have decided to opt out.
I suspect some legal push back since it's not a law one must be vaccinated, yet.
So did my cardiologist and thoracic surgeon. I'm scheduled for the vaccine before surgery. DO NOT GET THE VACCINE! Oddly enough there's a lot in the medical profession who have decided to opt out.
I suspect some legal push back since it's not a law one must be vaccinated, yet.
Wow, so there must be some concern about impact to the heart - makes one wonder what's really in that vaccine. Is that standard practice (to avoid vaccine's prior to anything heart procedure related)? I know I had plenty of strange vaccinations when I was active duty, even one in the first Gulf War that was "experimental" and could give me VA benefits (I've not researched that yet).
Good Luck Sir!
Great-Kazoo
04-29-2021, 09:16
Wow, so there must be some concern about impact to the heart - makes one wonder what's really in that vaccine. Is that standard practice (to avoid vaccine's prior to anything heart procedure related)? I know I had plenty of strange vaccinations when I was active duty, even one in the first Gulf War that was "experimental" and could give me VA benefits (I've not researched that yet).
Good Luck Sir!
Thanks. I'm week 2 out of quadruple bypass. I was "told" to avoid the vaccine for the foreseeable future.
Even more interesting. when i contacted the VA, to reschedule (1st & 2nd) time. I was told, no problem. Inquiring, i asked. Were we not suppose to have the 2nd shot within 30 days? Oh yeah, but don't worry. When you can, come in for it. ???
I have to imagine that when it comes to heart issues, the list of things to avoid is longer than the list of things that are okay.
Great-Kazoo
04-29-2021, 09:58
I have to imagine that when it comes to heart issues, the list of things to avoid is longer than the list of things that are okay.
Well it seems some (key word) some surgeons are suggestion their patient hold off on the vaccine, till after any surgery.
Right, but they also suggest that you hold off on eating before every surgery. It would be irresponsible to assume that eating in general is bad for you based on that scenario alone.
Right, but they also suggest that you hold off on eating before every surgery. It would be irresponsible to assume that eating in general is bad for you based on that scenario alone.
Because of the chances of vomiting and choking on it due to the anesthesia
I know why, I'm just making the point that there are a lot of things they tell you to avoid before surgery, but that doesn't mean those things are bad in general. It's just not really a good argument for avoiding the vaccine in general.
Great-Kazoo
04-29-2021, 13:37
I know why, I'm just making the point that there are a lot of things they tell you to avoid before surgery, but that doesn't mean those things are bad in general. It's just not really a good argument for avoiding the vaccine in general.
Perhaps. The vaccine is a personal choice.
HOWEVER. the number of people in the medical field, who i have come in contact with, the last 2 months. Those who have opted out, for now, is over 70%.
This area of AZ ,reminds me of CO 25-30 yrs ago. Where people prefer to be left alone, with any form of .gov minding their own business. Even a few friends, who lean a tad left of center and swallowed the whole shelter in place, mask, etc. Have opted to not get the vaccine, which surprised me.
The same people pushing this agenda are the some ones who SCREAM over any slight, due to a persons skin color, or sexual preference.
Will it be beneficial, in the long run, hopefully. Till then, to mandate one must show a vaccine card to do certain things, is ridiculous
Great-Kazoo
04-30-2021, 09:34
As a follow up when it comes to mandates, Needing to have the vaccine prior to attending college .
I asked medical professionals 2 weeks ago, as well as today. Are you required to get the vaccine, to work? It was a solid NO, it's not required as well as unenforceable, and grounds for termination from work.
So i don't see how CO can do this without a few court challenges.
In reality the vaccine is
#1 a vaccine, not a cure
#2 it's not an APPROVED vaccine
#3 it's permitted under an EUA. Key work, AUTHORIZING, it's use.
The state cannot mandate a vaccine or treatment, as a requirement to attend school. For a vaccine that has not been Approved, by the FDA.
Will that change, over time, of course. Till then it interesting how some states are flexing their muscle, to mandate people do something
You don’t expect that approval will be politically accelerated?
Great-Kazoo
04-30-2021, 15:41
You don’t expect that approval will be politically accelerated?
Of course it will.
The VA reps i know, told me 4 -5 months ago. They were opening the shots up to all ages. I asked why, they said less than 50% of veterans, considered high risk, or over 65, declined the vaccine.
To date that number is still under 50%. Not to mention the people working there, who have opted out.
The small print on the vaccine literature says. One has 1 yr for recourse, if any issues arise, from the vaccine.
hell my toaster has a better warranty.
The state cannot mandate a vaccine or treatment, as a requirement to attend school. For a vaccine that has not been Approved, by the FDA.
As I've noted before, this argument annoys the heck out of me from people just because it is entirely presumption and also entirely inaccurate. The supreme court threw that argument away before the FDA event existed. Back when they were called "innoculations" and were not as pretty as they are now. "Here, let me scratch you with some cow pus". And yes, they were required to attend school, and yes all the courts upheld the requirement going all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.
As far as the surgical advice, act like you really want your flu shot and ask if you can get that right after a bypass. I'm going to be your answer from your doctor to that is going to be "not a good idea" as well. Vaccines trigger immune responses, and for some, can trigger various symptoms of the underlying disease. Even things like a fever have vascular effects. Although nowhere near as dangerous as the actual infection, I can't imagine they want people to be dealing with potential symptoms of any real vaccine right after a bypass without very good reason to do it.
Of course as well, as political as this issue is, the medical field is comprised of individuals who believe in various politics themselves and advocate for whatever position. Like anything, we are more likely to have a doctor that agrees with us than one that doesn't, as there are plenty of doctors out there, and we can easily switch to ones that don't piss us off. We also naturally place a lot more weight into other opinions that agree with ours. That doesn't mean it isn't interesting, just goes to the weight of subjective experiences vs. controlled studies.
Great-Kazoo
05-02-2021, 01:11
As I've noted before, this argument annoys the heck out of me from people just because it is entirely presumption and also entirely inaccurate. The supreme court threw that argument away before the FDA event existed. Back when they were called "innoculations" and were not as pretty as they are now. "Here, let me scratch you with some cow pus". And yes, they were required to attend school, and yes all the courts upheld the requirement going all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.
As far as the surgical advice, act like you really want your flu shot and ask if you can get that right after a bypass. I'm going to be your answer from your doctor to that is going to be "not a good idea" as well. Vaccines trigger immune responses, and for some, can trigger various symptoms of the underlying disease. Even things like a fever have vascular effects. Although nowhere near as dangerous as the actual infection, I can't imagine they want people to be dealing with potential symptoms of any real vaccine right after a bypass without very good reason to do it.
WEll since i live in AZ and Not CO. The people who run medical facilities, cannot mandate their employees get vaccinated. . When people across the political spectrum tell me this. I'm more of a believer in what they say. Than another forum member in CO.
As for the surgeon[s], and others in the medical field. I was told to wait, 6 mths - 1 year before getting vaccinated, depending what test results, post op show. They were definitely adamant about me putting it off for some time.
But as you said in the other post . The various political leanings within the medical field might give you an answer based on their "bias" rather than facts. Which as we all know is not uncommon .
OldFogey
05-02-2021, 06:29
85995
And why are vaccinations all that important, again?
Great-Kazoo
05-02-2021, 07:28
85995
And why are vaccinations all that important, again?
Politics, elections, usurping ones power in office. Am i close.
Look i don't have an issue with vaccines, in general. I get the flu shot annually, even the pneumonia shot, mainly because a few years back pneumonia put me in the hospital. Why? because i'm in that "risk group"
My issue is from day 1 the continual crap were were told from the "Experts" changed. More than my , then, 3 yr olds suggestion what she has for dinner.
Wear a mask, don't wear a mask, flatten the curve, 6' social distancing, now reduced to 3'. Millions of people hiding in their homes, fearful to go out. Some, even today, are upset when they see someone not wearing a mask. The psychological blow back from this, will last for who know how long.
We've all seen people driving, with their mask on. Some wearing a mask, while their passengers are not.
WHY? Has concern of ( what ever percentage) catching it , influenced one to live in fear?
Then there's the I GOT THE VACCINE, crowd. Now Believing they will be immune from it?
Example. A person in my prayer group, sent out an email, cancelling a get together she had planned.
Mentioning. I tested positive for the virus. BUT i don't understand how that's possible. Since i was vaccinated back in Jan. .
Umm it's a vaccine, not a cure. But, that's the world we live in.
A virus that was turned in to a political football, instead of coming together. Having a unified voice how to combat it, etc. Hell even Biden has acted like it was his administration, not trump that got the vaccine, ball rolling.
Get the vaccine, don't get it. It's a personal choice.
Just like owning a gun. And we all know how public opinion, feels about that. Well according to politicians and the media, it does.
And why are vaccinations all that important, again?
Well, according to the commercials that keep popping up on YouTube you should get vaccinated....
?So we can end this and start getting back to normal.?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.