Deer rifle..

[def90]

All of my rifles are military variants which I could technically use to hunt with but I am now looking in to a bolt rifle for that purpose. Going to be using it for deer/pronghorn, maybe elk some day if I give up on getting one with my bow.

Think I pretty much decided on a Howa 1500 HS, just need to decide between .308 and 6.5 Creedmore.. or maybe even 6.5 PRC. From what I can tell these are all pretty close in performance within 400yds with the 6.5 performing better at a little longer distance but honestly I?m not sure I would be taking shots that far anyway. The other issue is ammo availability for any of these, I imagine .308 will have a wider variety of options available by the time Sept hits.

What does the ar-15 community think?

[Irving]

I switched from .308 to 6.5 Creedmoor and had some of the same concerns. I switched last summer and haven't been able to find another box of 6.5, BUT I almost never go looking for ammo, and all the times I did look, I couldn't find .308, .300blk, .223, or .22 either, so my experience doesn't tell you much. The suppressed 6.5 Creedmoor is much more more pleasant to shoot than my unsuppressed .308 with a heavy wood stock, but no muzzle device of any kind. I've shot both only out to 400 yards with equal ease, and missed animals at closer ranges with both. Many comments made online make me question the ability of the 6.5 to put down an elk, but then friends with way more experience and understanding of ballistics tell me I shouldn't be worried at all.

That probably wasn't that helpful except to let you know that I was basically in the same boat but made the switch anyway.
The deciding factors for me were:
- that I have the ability to shoot longer distances if I ever want to and figured that the 6.5 would do that better.
- I bought a can to put onto my .308 and found out it would cost me the cost of my rifle to get it threaded.
- I wanted a cool new gun and could afford it at the time.

[CS1983]

6.5CM, for sure. Overall better performance and more capable for LR.

I wouldn't count on .308 being as obtainable, and I'd certainly not wait til September to look for it. You should make the caliber decision and be buying anything you can find regardless of the decision you make.

6.5PRC is a very LR capable round, but I would think it a bit ridiculous for deer and pronghorn at the ranges you are talking about.

[Little Dutch]

6.5 CM wasn't yet introduced when I bought my hunting rifle. I likely would be hunting with a 6.5 instead of a .308 if it were. Nothing wrong with the .308, but the 6.5 is a good cartridge. Neither one will be in stock or readily available before hunting season 2021. You could flip a coin and be fine either way though, assuming you can find ammo or loading supplies.

[Frac]

I had a Howa 6.5 CM and sold it. It was a good shooter, but a little heavy for my taste. It was for my daughter and it was way too heavy for her.

I hunt mulies with a Tikka 6.5 CM. I love the Tikka. The 6.5 is plenty capable and it is a joy to shoot compared to my Tikka in 300 WSM.

I shoot Berger hunting VLDs. I could probably squeeze a little more velocity out of it, but this load shoots really nice.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210610/f0238d90ae5d28cbee48b0b4a6b7a54e.jpg

I?m not a great shooter, but 1? at 200 yards made me pretty happy.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210610/8bcdef1f760d90c0551065e2713545c3.jpg

[Irving]

I'm under the impression that 6.5 Creedmoor has been around long enough that it is an established, common round at this point.

[encorehunter]

For mules, whitetail and pronghorn, either will work just fine. If you hunt elk, it is going to take a good bullet and shot placement.
I hand load for hunting, using premium bullets. I have hunted the last 20 or so years with a .25-06 for deer elk and bear and it has worked fairly well. I use Nosler Accubonds for everything, because that is what the rifle likes. I did take a deer with a trophy bonded bear claw, which worked perfectly.

[.455_Hunter]

If elk is potentially in the plan, I would go with .308. Just a personal recommendation.

[def90]

Looking at the Hornady 6.5 ELD-X 143gr and using their balistics calculator at 9000ft elevation it will deliver 1500ft lbs of energy at 500yds, the 6.5 should theoretically be fine based on the general consensus that 1500ft lbs is needed for elk. their .308 ELD-X 178gr delivers 1500ft lbs out to 600yds so not a whole lot of difference. The 6.5 should theoretically be fine for elk within that range. How often are people really shooting at elk over 500yds?

[whitewalrus]

I use 308 as it predated the 6.5 CM rage. Either cartridge will be fine for anything in CO.

30 caliber bullets used to have some of the largest selection when reloading, but the 6.5 is now popular enough and the selection has really grown.

I am not sure on 6.5 loaded ammo if they have plenty of hunting style bullets, but I?m sure you could find something.

As others have mentioned start looking now. As things come into stock others will grab them - either because it?s the only thing on the shelf or they want something for the hunting season as well. Normally closer to hunting season, people buy the hunting ammo and the stores seems to run out. Maybe the mfrs switch to something else or stores don?t want to order a bunch of stuff they sell during hunting season only.


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[Delfuego]

6.5 Creedmoor is a better choice. If you want "more" 7mag never disappoints, but is a long action.

I agree with the Tikka recommendation too. They make good stuff at a good price.

I cant believe 6.5 Cream-more is still considered new...

I'm under the impression that 6.5 Creedmoor has been around long enough that it is an established, common round at this point.

[Irving]

Everyone I know who likes guns, but guns aren't their hobby, has never even heard of 6.5 Creed. They all ask if they should buy a 30-06 or .308.

[whitewalrus]

Everyone I know who likes guns, but guns aren't their hobby, has never even heard of 6.5 Creed. They all ask if they should buy a 30-06 or .308.

Think the 30-06 is the most commonly recommended cartridge for big game hunting for quite a long time. 308 is just the more modern version. Both have large factory ammo selections, rifles chambered in it, and can be found anywhere.

My preference is for the shorter action and lighter gun when hunting. You carry it all day to shoot it once.


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[Frac]

I also have a Tikka in 7mm-08. If you?re not a long range Instagram bro hunter, it would also do the trick for deer and elk.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210610/a628ef18cfd2443d281517b076409c94.jpg

[Little Dutch]

One other thought, and it's not necessarily a good reason to pick a hunting cartridge. I switched from .30-06 to .308 twenty years ago because everyone I hunted with was using .308. On the off chance one of us forgot hunting ammo, it wasn't the end of the hunt. It actually came up once recently.

[ray1970]

Don?t miss the boat on a good opportunity. While there are a lot of calibers out there suitable for deer and elk it?s way better to buy something suitable for deer and then justify your elk rifle to the wife later as an excuse to buy another firearm.

[theGinsue]

The 6.5 Creedmore is an amazing cartridge and should work well with any big game in CO you choose to hunt.

I don't own any firearms in the 6.5CM caliber so all of my knowledge on the cartridge is scholastic and from talking with others - no first hand experience.

I started big game hunting (MO whitetails) back in 1989. While I have some right-handed (RH) bolt action rifles, I'm a lefty and wanted my hunting rifle to be left-handed (LH) bolt. When I got my first hunting rifle I went with the blued LH Ruger M77 in .30-06. I was told by my dad that the .30-06 was the "best overall cartridge for big game hunting in North America" (The 6.5CM didn't come out until around 2007). While an excellent rifle, it's heavy and I wanted a lighter "all weather" rifle (stainless/synthetic stock) which Ruger doesn't make in LH. After speaking with the CEO and the head of marketing of Ruger back around 2010, they told me they had no intention of ever building a stainless LH hunting rifle. Ruger just lost my business for bolt rifles.

In 2017, a member of the site had an amazing deal on a LH Tikka T3 Lite (stainless, good scope & synthetic stock) in .308. I couldn't pass it up and have been using this rifle as my primary every year since. It's so much lighter than my Ruger and I've found that Tikka makes a quality firearm and the .308 actually shoots better/flatter than my .30-06.

Ultimately, whatever you choose you'll want to ensure it's a rifle YOU are comfortable with. From the size and weight to how it shoots and the ballistics & knockdown power. Just like various manufacturers and calibers, every hunter is different and you'll want what works best for you.

Good luck.

[Hoser]

Bullet selection goes a long way in the killing critter dept.

Use a good bonded core bullet like a Swift A-Frame or Nosler Accubond and you can break bones and still have an exit wound.

[Sawin]

For what it's worth, and forgive my tardiness, but 7mm-08 is flatter and faster than .308... and a touch larger than 6.5creedmoor. Think .308 necked down to 7mm... that's what 7mm-08 is. (.284 caliber) - lots of bullet options out there and will take deer and elk wonderfully. I like the Barnes TTSX solid copper bullets for elk.

[Sawin]

Bullet selection goes a long way in the killing critter dept.

Use a good bonded core bullet like a Swift A-Frame or Nosler Accubond and you can break bones and still have an exit wound.

100%

[Little Dutch]

For what it's worth, and forgive my tardiness, but 7mm-08 is flatter and faster than .308... and a touch larger than 6.5creedmoor. Think .308 necked down to 7mm... that's what 7mm-08 is. (.284 caliber) - lots of bullet options out there and will take deer and elk wonderfully. I like the Barnes TTSX solid copper bullets for elk.

Are you sure the 7mm-08 is faster than the .308? My Lyman 48'th manual (closest one within reach) is showing .308 a touch faster than 7mm-08 with comparable bullet weights.
168 grain with RX15 max load is listed as 2628 fps for 7mm-08 and 2724 fps for .308.
154 grain on 7mm, max load with IMR-4064, is listed as 2702 fps. 155 grain on .308, max load with IMR-4064, is listed as 2885 fps.

I picked the powders based on the 7mm-08 recommended accuracy load in the manual, but the trend appears to be consistent. Do the hunting loads buck the trend?


To be clear, there's nothing wrong with the 7mm-08, it's a fine hunting cartridge. I was under the impression that it has less felt recoil than .308.

[ray1970]

Are you sure the 7mm-08 is faster than the .308? My Lyman 48'th manual (closest one within reach) is showing .308 a touch faster than 7mm-08 with comparable bullet weights.
168 grain with RX15 max load is listed as 2628 fps for 7mm-08 and 2724 fps for .308.
154 grain on 7mm, max load with IMR-4064, is listed as 2702 fps. 155 grain on .308, max load with IMR-4064, is listed as 2885 fps.

I picked the powders based on the 7mm-08 recommended accuracy load in the manual, but the trend appears to be consistent. Do the hunting loads buck the trend?


To be clear, there's nothing wrong with the 7mm-08, it's a fine hunting cartridge. I was under the impression that it has less felt recoil than .308.

What are the test barrel lengths for each caliber?

Also, if you?re comparing comparable bullet weights the 7mm could be a little slower than the 308 because the 7mm projectile is going to have a longer bearing surface.

I imagine where the 7mm-08 shines is in the lower weights. Probably around 140 gr or so.

[Sawin]

Are you sure the 7mm-08 is faster than the .308? My Lyman 48'th manual (closest one within reach) is showing .308 a touch faster than 7mm-08 with comparable bullet weights.
168 grain with RX15 max load is listed as 2628 fps for 7mm-08 and 2724 fps for .308.
154 grain on 7mm, max load with IMR-4064, is listed as 2702 fps. 155 grain on .308, max load with IMR-4064, is listed as 2885 fps.

I picked the powders based on the 7mm-08 recommended accuracy load in the manual, but the trend appears to be consistent. Do the hunting loads buck the trend?


To be clear, there's nothing wrong with the 7mm-08, it's a fine hunting cartridge. I was under the impression that it has less felt recoil than .308.

Yes, I am sure. Well at least with 38.3gr of IMR4895 and 39.0gr of Varget, that is. Those are the two charges I'm using for highpower silhouette, so certainly aren't top-end loads either... You're definitely right on about the felt recoil being less, and when shooting 100rds offhand, I want them to be soft :)

For these two loads, when using the same primers (CCI 200), powder charge and bullet weights, I get faster velocities with 7-08 than with .308 at Colorado elevations.

In addition to what Ray pointed out about "bearing surface" (unknown to me), a couple other variables that I can think of that differ besides elevation that could matter are the rifle's barrel length, twist rate, brass (case capacity), difference in my RCBS (7-08) and Hornady Dies (.308) if they're set to impart any crimp or not... Reloading can be a really fun experiment, can't it?!
All of that aside, interestingly my two reloading manuals echo my experiences, contradictory to what your manual is showing, but I do stick with the lighter side (130-168gr) bullets and less than full capacity charges so the top end could totally change things also.

For example in Hornady's 9th Edition:
7-08:
154gr - IMR4064 with 38.9gr produces 2600fps &
154gr - Varget with 39gr produces 2600fps

.308:
150-155gr -IMR4064 with the same 38.9gr would be less than 2500fps (roughly 2480fps) &
150-155gr - Varget with 39gr would be ~2450fps.

Nosler's Reloading Guide 8 isn't very far off from the Hornady figures either, but offers a few different powder examples.

In any case, I've really grown to like the 7-08 the last 5 years and think it's a very good compromise for "flatter than a .308" without going all the way down to a 6.5creedmoor.

[earplug]

Ballistic Coefficient favors the longer heavier bullets down range. Muzzle velocity is only good at point blank range.
Last time I was looking at in stock brick and mortar ammunition availability 7-08 and the various 280 Remington variants were available.
If the original poster has a military rifle collection. He might have several excellent European hunting rounds. 7-57 and 6.5-55 come to mind.

[Little Dutch]

Yes, I am sure. Well at least with 38.3gr of IMR4895 and 39.0gr of Varget, that is. Those are the two charges I'm using for highpower silhouette, so certainly aren't top-end loads either... You're definitely right on about the felt recoil being less, and when shooting 100rds offhand, I want them to be soft :)

For these two loads, when using the same primers (CCI 200), powder charge and bullet weights, I get faster velocities with 7-08 than with .308 at Colorado elevations.

In addition to what Ray pointed out about "bearing surface" (unknown to me), a couple other variables that I can think of that differ besides elevation that could matter are the rifle's barrel length, twist rate, brass (case capacity), difference in my RCBS (7-08) and Hornady Dies (.308) if they're set to impart any crimp or not... Reloading can be a really fun experiment, can't it?!
All of that aside, interestingly my two reloading manuals echo my experiences, contradictory to what your manual is showing, but I do stick with the lighter side (130-168gr) bullets and less than full capacity charges so the top end could totally change things also.

For example in Hornady's 9th Edition:
7-08:
154gr - IMR4064 with 38.9gr produces 2600fps &
154gr - Varget with 39gr produces 2600fps

.308:
150-155gr -IMR4064 with the same 38.9gr would be less than 2500fps (roughly 2480fps) &
150-155gr - Varget with 39gr would be ~2450fps.

Nosler's Reloading Guide 8 isn't very far off from the Hornady figures either, but offers a few different powder examples.

In any case, I've really grown to like the 7-08 the last 5 years and think it's a very good compromise for "flatter than a .308" without going all the way down to a 6.5creedmoor.

I see what you are saying. With identical powder charges and bullet weights the 7mm-08 is pushed out faster. It also follows that if you want the bullet to be traveling at 2500 FPS, the 7mm-08 does it with less powder and less recoil.

What I saw is that the .308 can be pushed faster than the 7mm-08 at the top end with every bullet weight I checked. It has the potential for higher velocities in each bullet weight listed.