View Full Version : Officer shooting in Arvada
News articles aren't updated yet and calling this an active shooter situation, but I believe the shooter has already been killed. Here is an article, but I can find almost nothing. I guess a press conference is happening around 5pm?
https://krdo.com/news/top-stories/2021/06/21/officer-down-amid-active-shooting-in-olde-town-arvada/
Uh oh, and 1 officer has been shot… I have half a dozen friends in that department.
.455_Hunter
06-21-2021, 15:48
RIP. :(:mad:
It sounds like two officers shot, and one killed. Still have no idea what happened. Sounds like they are keeping the media back right now. Press conference pushed back another hour.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-21-2021, 16:11
Channel 7 interviewed a lady show said she heard one shot, then 6-7 shots. Don’t know if that is it. Also she saw a guy being taken out in handcuffs. Reports of two shooters, but that always seems to be in error. Lots of interest on a Dually Ford(?) pick up.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-21-2021, 17:22
Bad guy, police officer, and a ‘good samaritan’ are dead. No details. Someone come to the aid of the cop and killed for it? Started off with suspicious activity call. What a shame.
BPTactical
06-21-2021, 20:03
Any updates on this?
3beansalad
06-21-2021, 21:19
Any updates on this?I've had KDVR streaming for hours, no new info at this time.
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BPTactical
06-21-2021, 21:30
Thank you
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-21-2021, 21:45
RIP
Monday evening, the Arvada Police Department confirmed Officer Gordon Beesley died in the shooting. Beesley, a 19-year veteran with the department, was also a school resource officer at Oberon Middle School who worked patrol while school was out for the summer
The “good Samaritan“ has either been identified or explained. I read a report that someone who saw the shooter said he looked “detached“.
i’m fine with withholding the other two identities to give the police officer the recognition that he deserves. But with the media the way it is anytime they slow roll something I think they’re screwing around. Obviously the “good Samaritan“ means some thing, but they aren’t explaining it. Rendering aid? A CCW that engage the shooter? Something in between?
One report said three bursts of gunfire. A final burst doesn’t fit into the bad guy shooting himself.
I don’t mean to speculate but when they withhold stuff and tease out just the smallest bits it leads you to try to figure out what they are trying to imply.
The story earlier was that the media was being kept at bay. Is it possible that they still don't know what happened enough to report? With the media race to be first to report something, even if it's wrong, it sure stands out when they don't say anything.
3beansalad
06-21-2021, 21:55
I've had KDVR streaming for hours, no new info at this time.
Sent from my SM-G975U using TapatalkLocal news stations have published the officer's name and image.
Thank you Officer Gordon Beesley. Your sacrifice can never be repaid.
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yankeefan98121
06-22-2021, 05:21
He was the resource officer at Oberon where our kids went when we lived in Arvada.
There’s so much that can’t be put into words right now…Rest in peace Officer Beesley
Bummer. People who risk their lives every day to ensure peace and protect the innocent....
I attended Oberon when it first opened as a new school. We didn't need police in the schools back then.
clworth22
06-22-2021, 08:49
There’s a huge homeless problem in downtown Arvada, due to a church feeding them in the courtyard vicinity. I wonder if that is related.
3beansalad
06-22-2021, 09:30
There?s a huge homeless problem in downtown Arvada, due to a church feeding them in the courtyard vicinity. I wonder if that is related.Until we know for sure, it's all conjecture. Inwill say I ate lunch at Schoolhouse a couple months back, and parked behind the library. My experience with the homeless roaming around that makes it entirely plausible.
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.455_Hunter
06-22-2021, 11:32
Why is there an information blackout?
Sometimes notification of next of kin takes time.
Just a guess.
3beansalad
06-22-2021, 13:25
I hope the PD is controlling the information, and we never hear the murderer's name publicly.
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FromMyColdDeadHand
06-22-2021, 15:35
Why is there an information blackout?
Sometimes notification of next of kin takes time.
Just a guess.
If you haven?t found next of kin yet, it?s because they don?t want to be found. I don?t mind them honoring the fallen officer, but this is getting into the realm of managing the news. Get the information out and then honor the fallen officer. The perp I don?t care about that much but the bystander, or ?good Samaritan? lost his life to. Not to be callous, but this is a gun related forum, and our governor just signed three devastating anti-civil rights laws just days ago related to guns. Comparisons to the Boulder shooting are being made which triggered many of those. But for some reason we are being spoonfed information. It?s not the governments job to manage the story. It?s bad enough when the press does it. Never mind that there seems to be a shooting on Colfax nightly with multiple deaths. That information gets out and ignored instantly.
colorider
06-22-2021, 16:02
They know the identity of the shooter. Finger prints should show who he is. Unless he was in the country illegally and his prints are not on file. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmm.
The citizen is being referred to as a hero, he engaged the shitbag and paid the ultimate price but prevented any further tragedy. Shitbag is known, harbored strong anti-police ideology and ambushed Officer Beesley.
By all that knew him Officer Beesley was a great guy, cared for his students, always had a smile. Just a great guy, yeah I said that twice.
I would guess that if there weren’t any direct witnesses that they are trying to piece everything together before they go and put any info out that could be off base.
thedave1164
06-22-2021, 17:07
9news has the perp’s name and age.
59 year old with a grudge towards cops
RIP Beesley and Hurley
RIP officer Beesley & Hurley.
Wonder what the deal was with Hurley? Post says Beesley was "ambushed" and Hurley "prevented further bloodshed before he was killed as well". So . . . was Hurley armed and took on (and maybe took out) the shooter? Guess we'll find out. Just seems like odd cageyness with details.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-22-2021, 18:28
The citizen is being referred to as a hero, he engaged the shitbag and paid the ultimate price but prevented any further tragedy. Shitbag is known, harbored strong anti-police ideology and ambushed Officer Beesley.
By all that knew him Officer Beesley was a great guy, cared for his students, always had a smile. Just a great guy, yeah I said that twice.
do you know that to be true or is it speculation?
BPTactical
06-22-2021, 19:51
Gonna guess that this incident is so far off of the typical narrative that they are being very very careful on what is released when.
Gotta control the story.
Hurley a CCW holder who engaged and stopped the perp while losing his life?
Good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun.
We can’t have that kind of story this day and age.
RIP Officer and Hurley.
Is Hurley the Samaritan's first or last name?
3beansalad
06-22-2021, 20:05
Is Hurley the Samaritan's first or last name?Last name. Identified as a 40 year old resident of Golden. First name, John.
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Okay thanks. I texted our Hurley just now for a response. Different first name.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-22-2021, 22:12
Hurley was CCWing, left the safety of the army surplus store, told some diners nearby the shooter was coming their way and then engaged him. Hurley got 5-6 shots off. He was then shot and killed. They not saying by whom, which leads to the thought that I may be bad.
Hurley was CCWing, left the safety of the army surplus store, told some diners nearby the shooter was coming their way and then engaged him. Hurley got 5-6 shots off. He was then shot and killed. They not saying by whom, which leads to the thought that I may be bad.
Yeah, saw that on the 7 news. Didn't know if he was "shot by the BG or shot by the police".......
If you're in this situation - HOLSTER YOUR DAMN WEAPON ASAP!!!
colorider
06-22-2021, 23:22
I'm in the same thought process as BP.
.455_Hunter
06-23-2021, 06:52
More information...
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/witness-says-good-samaritan-shot-the-gunman-in-olde-town-arvada
Still not clear on the effectiveness of Hurley's engagement or if Hurley was killed by the perp or responding LE.
Bailey Guns
06-23-2021, 07:19
Not speculating on what happened. But, I always taught in my CCW classes to be a good witness and only step in with your gun if your life, or the life of someone you really cared about, was in immediate danger. Too many chances for unintended consequences to jump up and bite you in the ass. That's not about being a coward. It's about thinking clearly and doing what's best for you and your loved ones. Once you get involved in a gunfight the outcome can't be guaranteed. Your opponent doesn't have to be good...just lucky. Responding officers may see you as a threat. Witnesses may report you as the man shooting at others (which you are, in reality). People don't always know the entire story...responding officers have probably heard 3 or 4 versions of what's going on.
Be a good witness. Protect yourself and others. Hurley is dead. That can't be changed. But I sincerely hope this man didn't lose his life at the hands of responding officers...that would just make a horrific incident even more horrific.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-23-2021, 09:00
I totally understand that line of reasoning about not engaging. The reality might be a little harder. I know undercover cops get shot by uniformed officers. But in this day of CCW, at least for now, Cops have to realize that these are complex situations. Someone without a uniform but with a gun May not necessarily be a bad guy.
Great-Kazoo
06-23-2021, 09:17
I totally understand that line of reasoning about not engaging. The reality might be a little harder. I know undercover cops get shot by uniformed officers. But in this day of CCW, at least for now, Cops have to realize that these are complex situations. Someone without a uniform but with a gun May not necessarily be a bad guy.
Curious how you can tell the difference between the good guy and bad. When they barely have seconds, if that, to determine if a person with a gun, running in their direction Is a threat, or not.
Clearly you've not been in this situation, where the judgement call could drop an innocent bystander, or off duty cop.
eddiememphis
06-23-2021, 09:34
What are the laws, if there are any, about the responsibility and actions of a permit holder?
The guy left the store, looking for the shooter. He shot the alleged bad guy five or six times. Is this legal? Since he sought the bad guy, was he actually in imminent danger?
I have heard (not sure if it's correct) that permit holders are required to assist police. Are they required to act as police when there are not any around?
No, there are no such requirements at all. And "assisting police" is an effective way to get killed by the police or another "assistant".
.455_Hunter
06-23-2021, 11:47
The media coverage on this is interesting.
KMGH has the update about Hurley shooting the perp as their lead story.
No mention of him engaging the perp with a weapon on the other news sites, unless I am missing something.
Bailey Guns
06-23-2021, 12:58
I totally understand that line of reasoning about not engaging. The reality might be a little harder. I know undercover cops get shot by uniformed officers. But in this day of CCW, at least for now, Cops have to realize that these are complex situations. Someone without a uniform but with a gun May not necessarily be a bad guy.
No...armed citizens, and the public in general, have to realize these are complex situations. The police are tasked with dealing with this sort of problem. It's their job. Armed citizens are not. If you're getting a permit because you think you're going to "assist" the police and stop crime, you need to rethink your motives.
And I'm all for people carrying guns. I just want them to put their brain in gear before putting their gun in gear.
colorider
06-23-2021, 12:58
No picture of the perp yet. Odd.
hollohas
06-23-2021, 13:41
This guy did what he thought was right. From the stories being circulated by people who say they were his friends, he knew the risks. He still decided to do what he did. Everyone knows that if you get in a shootout, you may get shot. That's just a fact we all live with. LEOs aren't the only folks allowed to take that risk. It's not exclusive to them. I will never criticize ANYONE who steps up and stops a bad guy, badge or not.
Cops may say they don't want citizens to help, but that opinion changes immediately when they need help. There isn't always uniformed backup nearby. Every LEO I know finds comfort in knowing there are still good people out there that have their backs.
This is what it is now. At least right now it sounds like the citizen stopped the bad guy. (There aren't any reports of shots being fired after he engaged). That's a good thing no matter what he "should have done". Good for him.
.455_Hunter
06-23-2021, 14:06
Denver Post has picked it up...
https://www.denverpost.com/2021/06/23/john-hurley-arvada-shooting-olde-town-hero/
newracer
06-23-2021, 14:25
What are the laws, if there are any, about the responsibility and actions of a permit holder?
The guy left the store, looking for the shooter. He shot the alleged bad guy five or six times. Is this legal? Since he sought the bad guy, was he actually in imminent danger?
I have heard (not sure if it's correct) that permit holders are required to assist police. Are they required to act as police when there are not any around?
You can use deadly force to defend yourself or others as long as it is reasonably believed that your life or others is in danger.
Permit holders are not required to assist police or ever act as police.
Great-Kazoo
06-23-2021, 14:39
What are the laws, if there are any, about the responsibility and actions of a permit holder?
The guy left the store, looking for the shooter. He shot the alleged bad guy five or six times. Is this legal? Since he sought the bad guy, was he actually in imminent danger?
I have heard (not sure if it's correct) that permit holders are required to assist police. Are they required to act as police when there are not any around?
Who ever you "Heard" that from needs to find another job. Since working the counter at a gun store, doesn't seem to be working for them.
My bet is that Hurley was shot by responding officers. Otherwise, why the blanket of silence?
BushMasterBoy
06-23-2021, 14:59
There is NO duty to assist a peace officer unless commanded to. Failure to comply when commanded is a petty offense.
In retrospect, if Mr. Hurley could have borrowed some appropriate level body armor from the surplus store, it might have made a difference. All innocent parties involved have my sympathies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refusing_to_assist_a_police_officer#Colorado
Army surplus doesn't sell body armor.
eddiememphis
06-23-2021, 15:40
Who ever you "Heard" that from needs to find another job.
Internet.
That's why I ask questions. Gather all the answers and sort 'em out.
From a very reliable source Hurley shot the perp and was indeed shot by the police.
3beansalad
06-23-2021, 16:00
From a very reliable source Hurley shot the perp and was indeed shot by the police.Damn shame, but unfortunately understandable.
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Bailey Guns
06-23-2021, 16:17
This guy did what he thought was right. From the stories being circulated by people who say they were his friends, he knew the risks. He still decided to do what he did. Everyone knows that if you get in a shootout, you may get shot. That's just a fact we all live with. LEOs aren't the only folks allowed to take that risk. It's not exclusive to them. I will never criticize ANYONE who steps up and stops a bad guy, badge or not.
Cops may say they don't want citizens to help, but that opinion changes immediately when they need help. There isn't always uniformed backup nearby. Every LEO I know finds comfort in knowing there are still good people out there that have their backs.
This is what it is now. At least right now it sounds like the citizen stopped the bad guy. (There aren't any reports of shots being fired after he engaged). That's a good thing no matter what he "should have done". Good for him.
I'm not arguing that. But now his family is left with dealing with the consequences of his choices. It's an unfortunate reality. And the officer(s) that fired the shots that killed him are left with dealing with what they've done. His decisions impacted a lot more people than just him. Unintended consequences... I'm mostly bringing these things up as food for thought for those who haven't thought these kinds of things through completely.
Bailey Guns
06-23-2021, 16:28
This is an odd story thus far. I understand the need to finish an investigation and collect facts before releasing information but it is sometimes frustrating.
I'm curious... Is it possible Hurley was mistakenly shot by Beesly before he passed? Again...not speculating, just thinking out loud.
hollohas
06-23-2021, 16:44
Sure, every decision has consequences. For example, an alternate possible consequence if Hurley decided not to engage the bad guy is the bad guy may have killed other bystanders or responding police. His decision would have impacted a lot more people than him in that case too, yeah?
And Hurley (a guy who has proved he's not the passive sort) would have probably suffered life long thoughts that he should have done something. He obviously didn't want to live his life thinking woulda/shoulda/coulda. He stood up and took action. God bless him for that.
I'm glad there are still citizens out there willing to stand up and take action. I'd hate to live in a world where everyone stands aside passivly watching others get hurt, hiding or holding their phone up for video, while waiting for the proper authorities to deal with a dangerous threat. (Although seems like we're getting closer to that each day)
Life is nothing but risks. It's not just LEO who are willing to risk their lives to help.
If indeed he was killed by responding LE, that sucks. I think most folks with CCW understand that. This isn't the first time that's happened. It won't be the last. Sucks if an officer has to live with killing an innocent man, but that's also a risk LEOs have in their line of work.
In so many alternate scenarios there would be people "that have to live with" whatever choice was made. Avoiding that outcome isn't an option.
eddiememphis
06-23-2021, 17:19
What is the timeline and the events? Has anything been said about that?
When did asshole show up with his gun? What was he doing before the police were called? When did the cop get there? Were there more police? When did surplus guy jump in?
It sounds like the bad guy shot at the cop and surplus ran into it. Is that correct?
From my source officer Beesley walked around a corner and was shot. Hurley heard gun fire and saw perp which he engaged. Source made comment that perp was really dead. Other officers showed as there is a station right there and unfortunately shot Hurley.
From my source officer Beesley walked around a corner and was shot. Hurley heard gun fire and saw perp which he engaged. Source made comment that perp was really dead. Other officers showed as there is a station right there and unfortunately shot Hurley.
KDVR is saying the same
For anyone who ever complains when an active shooter is successfully apprehended by police unharmed.... "why didn't they just save us the cost of a trial"...
This is Exhibit A. Even if there is a report of an active shooter we don't want a world where LEO shoots anyone holding a weapon upon arrival.
I hope Hurley gets the same honors that the fallen LEO does, and his family receives the same level of community support.
Well. I hope this wasn't OUR Hurley! Better off dessicating in the Tucson heat than in the Jefferson County morgue. Maybe.
3beansalad
06-23-2021, 22:29
My son is close friends with John's sister. I can't even imagine.
https://www.gofundme.com/f/good-samaritan-john-hurley
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I hope Hurley gets the same honors that the fallen LEO does, and his family receives the same level of community support.
AMEN to that!
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-23-2021, 23:45
For anyone who ever complains when an active shooter is successfully apprehended by police unharmed.... "why didn't they just save us the cost of a trial"...
This is Exhibit A. Even if there is a report of an active shooter we don't want a world where LEO shoots anyone holding a weapon upon arrival.
I hope Hurley gets the same honors that the fallen LEO does, and his family receives the same level of community support.
That?s my hope too. With the new preemption law passing, cops probably won?t have to learn that there could be CCWers out there?
While we don't know enough to "kb commando" this, I was just thinking... I can only think of a single shooting where there was a second shooter concealed that got the jump on an intervening CCW. It unfortunately cost him his life - it was in a walmart shopping center. The CCW engaged the boyfriend whom had a gun, unbeknownst to him, the girlfriend had a weapon as well and went behind the CCW and got the jump on him. One example out of all of these shootings.
So in our modern world, I'd hazard a guess that an active shooter situation is 99/100 times a single perp.
As crazy as it sounds, I'm considering teaching people that:
#1) First they need to protect their butt and probably GTFO as already well covered in this thread and as I already do...
#2) If they do decide to intervene against the logic of rule #1, ASSUME there is only a single perpetrator, wholeheartedly believe there is only a single perpetrator, and if they successfully engage, discard all of the training for post-shoot scene assessment, and instead promptly re-holster or set the weapon down nearby (safely and slowly) and avoid any sudden movements themselves.
This seems to go against our natural instinct but...
I think the risk of there being additional perps or the target reanimating before a CCW could again un-holster or re-aquire the weapon is far, far lower than LEO or other CCW's coming into the scene in a rush, and this happening. It's a two faced risk too - anybody rushing into the scene with a gun is likely to trigger the CCW to point in their direction (not saying that is what happened here, but it could have) - and of course, even if the CCW doesn't react that way, the mere fact they are holding a gun is enough to satisfy the thresholds depending on the information received on a 911 call, which is often horribly inaccurate.
We may need to teach "There is only one perp." I have for a long time taught that after engaging someone people need to be loud and announce their own presence for whatever noises they hear (in their home, etc.) "I AM IN THE KITCHEN WITH A GUN"
OtterbatHellcat
06-24-2021, 02:52
I have once been in the situation of seeing a gun drawn in public domain in a shitty neighborhood near Colfax and Monaco.
Plain clothed black male hopped out of his car in front of my house and had drawn on someone behind a fence obstructing my view. Of course my initial reaction was to find out what was going on, while I'm armed as well. He was an undercover cop arresting a douchebag at the crack whore hotel next door to me. Kazoo told me a long time ago that you might be shooting a cop doing his job because you don't really know what's actually taking place in a situation like that...and he's right.
I'll save my wife and myself, and innocent people...but only if I'm certain it's a bad actor. I'd rather live in prison I guess, than watch and let other people die.
Good Samaritan Lives Matters!
eddiememphis
06-24-2021, 18:00
Usually when an officer is killed in the line of duty, it is widely reported.
Doing a search for "Arvada shooting" has very little national coverage.
Is it due to the frequency of these acts, or the good guy with a gun narrative?
I'm not smart enough to figure that out.
I have been taught to shout "officer do you need assistance" before entering a fray, and also to holster ASAP.
Have not really thought about what I would do if inside a business and hearing shots outside.
What a difficult situation we are seeing unfold here.
I was up in Arvada earlier today and at the town square where this occurred there's about an equal amount of notes/messages of grief for John Hurley as there are for Officer Beesley. At one point a lone bagpiper showed up and played Amazing Grace. Everyone stopped whatever they were, those walking by and those looking at the messages/flowers in the square. All eyes were on the bagpiper. A few folks that a friend thought might be family to Mr. Hurley dropped to their knees in tears. So hearbreaking. RIP to both.
eddiememphis
06-25-2021, 16:42
Creepy eyed guy on 9 layed out the latest.
Shooters brother called cops saying his brother was up to no good. Cop showed up, walked around corner and took a 12 gauge load. Shooter emptied the 12 gauge into cars and businesses, went to truck and grabbed AR. Army surplus ran out and killer shooter, Picked up his AR and an Arvada cop shot him.
There’s a video statement on Arvada’s Facebook page. I’m too inept to post it here, it’s on YouTube.
The Facebook post has the timeline. An incredible tragedy.
There’s a video statement on Arvada’s Facebook page. I’m too inept to post it here, it’s on YouTube
https://youtu.be/fBdEqXvtW_s
.455_Hunter
06-25-2021, 17:25
There are several valid reasons why Hurley would secure the perp's weapon, all of them legitimate, and that unfortunately cost him his life.
Not sure what to say about the people who directly observed the perp run up behind the Officer and did absolutely nothing.
Great... this cracker Jack badge is going to be popular now....
https://everydaycarryconcealed.com/why-do-people-use-a-concealed-carry-badge/
https://everydaycarryconcealed.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/ccw_badge_redacted-800x675.jpg?ezimgfmt=ng%3Awebp%2Fngcb21%2Frs%3Adev ice%2Frscb21-1
Tragic all around. Not sure why you'd pick up the perp's AR after you ventilated him . . . but, still. Did the cop who killed the samaritan take a couple extra seconds to try to figure out what might be going on or did he just see & shoot? Hopefully there's some bodycam footage to show what actually happened.
Sucks that dirtbags like Holmes and the King Soopers shooter live and the dude who did the right thing and probably saved lives gets killed for stepping in. Be careful if you choose to get involved.
I think we can safely say it was a "see and shoot". Ironically, it is most likely justified under the law because the subjective standards are often met simply by someone calling 911, even if they were dishonest (not suggesting that here).
What a terrible turn of events. I feel bad for the officer who made the mistake but not nearly so much as for the good guy who put the bad guy down and was killed for his integrity and his courage. Might this be an outgrowth of first responder training which basically teaches a shoot first, ask questions later approach? Was Hurley given a chance to put the AR down before being shot and murdered? Sorry, no body cams in Arvada.
It's more than ironic that our fine governor just signed legislation that targets citizens lawfully carrying concealed to protect themselves and the public while enabling both criminals and law enforcement overreach.
This really pisses me off and demands a big step back by the governor and the democrat legislature. Imagine if Mr. Hurley had been on scene when the muslim dirtbag walked into the Table Mesa King Soopers.
I think we can safely say it was a "see and shoot". Ironically, it is most likely justified under the law because the subjective standards are often met simply by someone calling 911, even if they were dishonest (not suggesting that here).
Yeah, I suppose the fact that the samaritan is dead leads to there not being many (or any) "drop the weapon!!"'s involved.
Still sucks all around.
funkymonkey1111
06-25-2021, 23:16
. Might this be an outgrowth of first responder training which basically teaches a shoot first, ask questions later approach?
i think that's exactly what it was
Great... this cracker Jack badge is going to be popular now....
https://everydaycarryconcealed.com/why-do-people-use-a-concealed-carry-badge/
https://everydaycarryconcealed.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/ccw_badge_redacted-800x675.jpg?ezimgfmt=ng%3Awebp%2Fngcb21%2Frs%3Adev ice%2Frscb21-1
Exactly what I was thinking.
bellavite1
06-27-2021, 11:17
Rethorical question:
Had it been me (or you) to mistake the good guy for a bad one and killing him, would we be in jail right now (and for the foreseeable future)?
Rethorical question:
Had it been me (or you) to mistake the good guy for a bad one and killing him, would we be in jail right now (and for the foreseeable future)?
It depends on the D.A., but likely - only for a very short period of time. The standards in CO are not all that different, hearing sounds of gunfire, seeing an officer dead, and then seeing a guy with an A.R. easily satisfies the reasonable belief threshold to any reasonably jury and a D.A. would have to be an idiot to proceed forward with charges (unless other circumstances were present, high capacity magazine oh ma gawd!") but certainly, they would take their time to sort out the details while they held you in custody.
I feel like they would prosecute if for no other reason than to drive home the point that guns aren't for citizens.
kidicarus13
06-27-2021, 13:06
I feel like they would prosecute if for no other reason than to drive home the point that guns aren't for citizens.Citizens make poor decisions when using guns to protect life. Errr...a... wait a minute.
BushMasterBoy
06-27-2021, 18:17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBdEqXvtW_s
Good Lord.
To honor Mr. Hurley, the rest of the video should be released even though it will paint an officers mistaken actions in bad light. A tragic outcome for sure but Officer Beesley was a victim, Mr. Hurley was the only hero there.
We can appreciate the Arvada Police Chief's open statement. It would further honor Officer Beesley and Mr. Hurley if he aggressively addressed the issues with the governor, the state legislature and the press.
BushMasterBoy
06-27-2021, 21:36
I guess if you want to engage an active shooter as a civilian, call 911 and give a description of your self and your intentions to the dispatcher. Or just shoot the bastards and discretely leave. If you are lucky, nobody will ever know it is you...
If I was a mayor of Arvada. I would:
- Throw more meeting, funeral service at Arvada.
- Fund Raise.
- talk to treasury commission and city council to put $$$ into helping fund, etc.
....serious lawsuit brewing, and need to stop that.
Another rhetorical question, IF Mr. Hurley had NOT been shot and killed, would he spend time in the clink? Have a bunch of court time and cost coming his way? OR would've he been simply held for a while until the facts came out on scene and free to go?
Well to Monday morning quarterback I would hazard a guess that in the instance you describe Mr. Hurley while initially detained would've eventually been released sometime during the same day. I base this on the number of witnesses that describe his actions and in this theoretical discussion any statements from the responding officers as well.
Great-Kazoo
06-28-2021, 11:53
I guess if you want to engage an active shooter as a civilian, call 911 and give a description of your self and your intentions to the dispatcher. Or just shoot the bastards and discretely leave. If you are lucky, nobody will ever know it is you...
In todays instatikbook society where people are poised to post anything. Whether it's factual or not, GFL not being on film. Hell you'd probably be a social media star, or villian, before you holstered your gun.
I'd think that'd be good. All the evidence for you as possible.
Great-Kazoo
06-28-2021, 13:37
I'd think that'd be good. All the evidence for you as possible.
Not at all. You're tried and convicted in the court of public opinion before the day's over. Throw in how edited a lot of videos are. Especially when it comes to cops. Sure the 3 sec where deadly force is used, looks real bad, for them. Till the other 2 minutes are released, if ever.
.455_Hunter
09-20-2021, 19:02
The autopsy report determined that Hurley, 40, died from a single gunshot wound to the pelvis after he was mistaken for the active shooter, Ronald Troyke, by a responding Arvada police officer.
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/autopsy-report-released-on-good-samaritan-killed-by-police-in-arvada-olde-town-shooting
The decedent was in a store on a commercial plaza, when Troyke fired a shotgun at parked motor vehicles and at a responding police officer (Beesley, Gordon, JCCO21-02616). The decedent exited the store with his own handgun, when Troyke was returning to his truck, to exchange the shotgun for an automatic rifle. The decedent approached Troyke and shot him several times. The decedent then removed Troyke's assault rifle from his body. Another responding officer then saw the decedent holding the assault rifle, and fired his handgun at him, mistakenly assuming that the decedent was the active shooter. The decedent was subsequently transported to Lutheran Medical Center, where he was declared dead shortly after arrival.
If he would just left that rifle alone, we would be having an entirely different discussion.
Little Dutch
09-20-2021, 19:42
Doubtful. The rifle is a convenient scapegoat, that's all.
.455_Hunter
09-20-2021, 19:49
Doubtful. The rifle is a convenient scapegoat, that's all.
So you think Arvada PD would have shot him and all the other people in the area?
hollohas
09-20-2021, 21:01
So you think Arvada PD would have shot him and all the other people in the area?No. They simply shot the guy who they saw holding a gun. It's not likely it mattered that it was a AR or the pistol he had.
Respond to reported shooting. See guy holding gun. Shoot.
Bailey Guns
09-20-2021, 21:03
Why is something like this always sinister? It was a horrible, yet very understandable, accident. Isn't it possible that's all it was?
Most crimes require an element of intent or mental culpability. Explain to me how the officer who shot the victim had any criminal intent.
Picture this, your neice/nephew/son/daughter calls you and says there is someone running around popping people with a rifle. You jump into cardio mode and round the corner to see a dude holding said rifle.
He's immediately gonna be wearing a projectile at that point.
It's a shitty situation for sure. Nobody else had to die, but adrenaline dumps on both ends were natural and played a part
*I use family references because the guys I know would respond to that type of call just as if their family was at risk*
SuperiorDG
09-21-2021, 07:21
87646
Little Dutch
09-21-2021, 09:49
So you think Arvada PD would have shot him and all the other people in the area?
There's a mental defective shooting people. You are chasing the mental defective. You see a guy with a gun, there's a body on the ground next to him. This is not exactly a complicated scenario.
.455_Hunter
09-21-2021, 10:32
There's a mental defective shooting people. You are chasing the mental defective. You see a guy with a gun, there's a body on the ground next to him. This is not exactly a complicated scenario.
Pretty sure the responding officer was not "chasing" the mental defective- they were responding to a shooting scene with unknown situational awareness.
Good questions to ask:
Was there active shooting still occurring when the responding unit arrived on scene? If not, what was the delay between Hurley's shots and the LE shooting him?
What are the requirements to assess the situation before opening fire?
Hurley was a civilian CCW carrier, but could have just as easy been an off-duty LE doing the same action. What is the protocol to avoid shooting an off-duty?
What is the protocol to avoid shooting an auditory comprised and tunnel visioned individual, thinking back to Mr. Black in Aurora?
I agree its a difficult situation, but that doesn't mean it can be simplistically dismissed. AAR's are helpful to avoid future similar outcomes.
.455_Hunter
11-08-2021, 18:18
The results of the investigation...
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/arvada-officer-who-shot-good-samaritan-during-olde-town-shooting-will-not-face-charges-da-says
Please review and post your thoughts.
I wonder if Hurley was trying to clear or safe the rifle when he was shot? An unfortunate decision by him, regardless of intent.
My hope is that this situation, along with events like Mr. Black's death in Aurora, can be used develop LE response techniques that acknowledge the potential presence of armed non-criminal citizens in a given scenario. What that would entail, I don't know.
Grant H.
11-08-2021, 18:48
No charges...
Color me shocked...
Bailey Guns
11-08-2021, 22:39
And what would you have him charged with?
The take away is that if you are ever involved in a situation like this immediately set your firearm down as well as probably lie on the ground with your arms and hands splayed out until the “help” arrives.
I have to grudgingly admit that it was the right decision.
That said, the police need to do better.
For example, if it had been exactly the same situation and it had been a plainclothes officer, the outcome would have, tragically, been the same.
O2
Bailey Guns
11-09-2021, 13:38
Yeah...it's a horrible situation and a police officer's, or an armed citizen's, worst nightmare. But looking objectively at the totality of the situation it's impossible for me to fault the officer. Does that mean nothing should ever change or that we shouldn't look at potential changes in order to reduce the chances of this happening again? Of course not. But charging the officer would've been the wrong thing to do and I doubt any jury would've ever convicted him. I'm guessing there's a civil suit pending if it hasn't already been filed.
.455_Hunter
11-09-2021, 17:22
So when do the riots start?
That's what's supposed to happen, right?
.455_Hunter
11-10-2021, 17:53
What I would consider rather amazing video of armed citizen Hurley's actions up to and including discharging his weapon at the shooter. Does not include any footage of the shooter on the receiving end, or what I also would expect to be Hurley's demise based on earlier camera angles of the shooter killing Officer Beesley.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOZsipmR3f8
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