View Full Version : Abandon Glenwood Canyon...
Wow. I heard talk today of plans to investigate rerouting I-70 out of the canyon and abandoning a few of the current sections. These mud slides are not going to stop soon and the ongoing threat from not just the burn scars but the deteriorating canyon walls has sparked debate if fixing Glenwood canyon is in the best interest of the state.
I've heard cottonwood pass to the south, some route to the north? It will be interesting to watch the next few months/years...
There goes a few billion $$$.....
BushMasterBoy
08-04-2021, 00:49
You have to manage the water. The contingency planning is inadequate. Hopefully the trillion dollar infrastructure bill will address this problem.
https://www.aspentimes.com/news/the-only-tool-we-have-cdot-turns-to-response-strategies-following-multiple-mudslides-on-i-70/
Great-Kazoo
08-04-2021, 09:04
There goes a few billion $$$.....
let's not forget the time saving, Detours.
Being that section wasn't even completed until the 1990's (the last section of the interstate system) and with today's inflation of 200% of code since then, I think they will have that successfully rerouted in around 2075 or so.
And that's if they start work next week.
I think it will take much of the trillion dollar infrastructure money to fix I-70 through the canyon. Think avalanche shed type tunnels for the mud slide drainage sections.
I remember as an operating engineer back in the 1960's when the I-70 routes were being debated the construction builder preferences were to build a series of bridges across canyons above and to the north of Glenwood Canyon.
Yesterday I took the northern detour route from GJ through Craig, Steamboat and over Trail Ridge to our home south of Estes. Logged 342 miles in 7 hours vs. the usual 252 miles in 4.5 hours along the I-70 route. Many of the gas stations along the way were out of fuel because of the increased traffic and delivery problems. And it will get worse as most of the alternate routes won't be open in winter.
In the press conference on Monday the CDOT stated that they had hauled 500 truck loads of material from the mud slide sites on Sunday, and that there's 1000 times that amount yet to be moved.
Sounds like this will royaly fuck up our hunt camp in Unit 34 this year.
ChickNorris
08-04-2021, 11:48
The NRL Hunter season finale & three other national championships plus the CompExpo are this weekend @ Csec. Im leaving earlier than planned, taking the southern route & expecting the drive to pretty much suck, both ways. Think id rather just fly in the future if I can meet the ammo weight restrictions & still have what I need. Not surprisingly, airfare has become silly expensive this last week.
TEAMRICO
08-04-2021, 13:09
There goes a few billion $$$.....
Only if they stay on or under budget and finish on time.
Yeah, I would roll my eyes too.
wctriumph
08-04-2021, 16:36
Well, there goes all those western slope Armslist adverts hoping to get sales from the front range. The Steamboat and Craig sellers are still available …
Well, there goes all those western slope Armslist adverts hoping to get sales from the front range. The Steamboat and Craig sellers are still available ?
You can still easily get to the western slope for those deals. Just have to detour off 70 on 40 up through Winter Park and go through Steamboat to Craig and take 13 south into Rifle. Easy as pie and probably only adds about four and a half or five hours to the drive each way.
Now if 50 would just have a nice big rock slide in the middle of the night when nobody is around. :)
So the counties want $70-80 million to pave cottonwood pass.
My question is what non 4x4 road leaves Taylor basin that GPS is sending people on?
Martinjmpr
08-05-2021, 10:08
So the counties want $70-80 million to pave cottonwood pass.
My question is what non 4x4 road leaves Taylor basin that GPS is sending people on?
By Taylor Basin I presume you mean the Taylor River area? My guess would be Kebler Pass. Dirt but definitely not 4x4. Well graded, smooth, definitely a viable alternative.
I've never been on the Cottonwood Pass you're talking about
For reasons of clarity, there are, to my knowledge, at least 3 "Cottonwood Passes" in CO. The most well known is the one that runs between Buena Vista and the Taylor Park Reservoir Northeast of Gunnison. Lesser known Cottonwood passes are the one that runs (AFAIK) between Gypsum and Carbondale (County road 10A) and I think this must be the one you are referring to.
There is also a Cottonwood Pass in Grand County between Hot Sulphur Springs and Fraser.
Martinjmpr
08-05-2021, 10:11
Now if 50 would just have a nice big rock slide in the middle of the night when nobody is around. :)
US 50 has been a mess since April due to the big reconstruction going on just East of Montrose that either had the road completely closed or down to 1 lane with significant delays.
I looked on the CDOT web page and saw that due to I-70 closing, work there has either been suspended or curtailed so US 50 is open with one lane in each direction. So, depending on where you are going on the Western Slope, US 285 to Poncha Springs and then US 50 over Monarch Pass may be quicker than going through Craig and Meeker.
Maybe this will reignite the call to reopen the pass bergen Nederland and Winter Park. Won't help the Glenwood situation, but whatevs.
Martinjmpr
08-05-2021, 12:06
Hindsight is 20/20 but in retrospect, it would likely have been easier if I-70 had followed the route of US 285 and 50 over Monarch Pass to Montrose and then up to Grand Junction from the beginning. Glenwood Canyon is certainly an engineering marvel but it's always been "high maintenance" and always will be. And realistically speaking, I don't think there's a viable alternative that is anywhere reasonably close to the Glenwood corridor.
So my guess is that they'll do what they can to patch Glenwood Canyon and like the wildfires that ravage the mountains every year, periodic Glenwood Canyon closures are just going to be something we have to live with.
"Way back when" it might have been possible to build a new route that roughly follows Cottonwood Pass, heading South from Gypsum, crosses Gypsum Creek and then goes over the relatively flat ground (at least compared to the areas North of Glenwood Canyon, which is extremely mountainous) and approach Glenwood Springs from the Southeast:
87069
But starting a project like that from scratch now would be ruinously expensive and while patching Glenwood Canyon until the next big mud slide pretty much "kicks the can down the road", in practical and political terms, it's the most reasonable course of action.
Hindsight is 20/20 but in retrospect, it would likely have been easier if I-70 had followed the route of US 285 and 50 over Monarch Pass to Montrose and then up to Grand Junction from the beginning. Glenwood Canyon is certainly an engineering marvel but it's always been "high maintenance" and always will be. And realistically speaking, I don't think there's a viable alternative that is anywhere reasonably close to the Glenwood corridor.
So my guess is that they'll do what they can to patch Glenwood Canyon and like the wildfires that ravage the mountains every year, periodic Glenwood Canyon closures are just going to be something we have to live with.
"Way back when" it might have been possible to build a new route that roughly follows Cottonwood Pass, heading South from Gypsum, crosses Gypsum Creek and then goes over the relatively flat ground (at least compared to the areas North of Glenwood Canyon, which is extremely mountainous) and approach Glenwood Springs from the Southeast:
87069
But starting a project like that from scratch now would be ruinously expensive and while patching Glenwood Canyon until the next big mud slide pretty much "kicks the can down the road", in practical and political terms, it's the most reasonable course of action.
I'm glad they didn't do the monarch pass route tbh. On paper it's decent, but monarch pass does not an easy one for an interstate to cross. The route from GJ - > Denver is 3 hours, while Montrose -> Pueblo alone is 4 1/2 right now (GJ is 5.5), which would not be improved much by an interstate. In any event, it would add an average of 2 hours to almost every trans-divide commute even as an interstate. East of Montrose climbing into Gunnison is also not a great interstate pathway, traffic would be 25 mph over both sections with tons of switchbacks on an interstate no matter how you cut it.
The south gypsum passage you mentioned is kind of interesting though. Never have thought of that. Compared to what they blow on some infrastructure projects it's not necessarily unachievable either.
Or we could just do our own "chunnel" and just make a 100 mile straight tunnel under all the bullshit [Beer] compared to what we paid on stimulus even that would be "chump change"
ETA: I'm obviously not serious about a tunnel, I might be dumb on some things, nobody is that dumb.
ETA 2: Although we could spend an extra 90 billion dollars to build a park on top of the tunnel for all the homeless people to shoot up in. Win/win on the marketing.
A bridge that doesn't touch either canyon wall would have mud slides go right under it, right? Might be easier on the rock slides as well.
A tunnel would be easier to get through an environmental review than altering the existing bridge or build new ones. They couldn't even change the railing for safety upgrades because aesthetics is more important than safety according to the forrest disservice and federal highway pinheads.
Martinjmpr
08-05-2021, 14:43
RE: Tunnel: A quick Google search indicates the longest automobile tunnel in the world is about 15 miles long (24 km.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A6rdal_Tunnel
Assuming the East end of the tunnel was at the Canyon entrance around MM 133 and the West end near the No Name exit, that hypothetical tunnel would be about 13 miles long as the crow flies.
Of course, it would have to go under several creek or stream beds which means it would likely have to swing out to the North to be far enough underground to be well beneath those streams.
I was surprised to find that the Laerdl tunnel was completed in 6 years.
And of course, there are railroad tunnels that are quite a bit longer than that (over 30 miles) so it's certainly something that CAN be done.
Politically, though, it's tough for any politician to vote for something that won't yield any benefits for him during his term of office.
Martinjmpr
08-05-2021, 14:44
RE: Tunnel: A quick Google search indicates the longest automobile tunnel in the world is about 15 miles long (24 km.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A6rdal_Tunnel
Assuming the East end of the tunnel was at the Canyon entrance around MM 133 and the West end near the No Name exit, that hypothetical tunnel would be about 13 miles long as the crow flies.
Of course, it would have to go under several creek or stream beds which means it would likely have to swing out to the North to be far enough underground to be well beneath those streams.
I was surprised to find that the Laerdl tunnel was completed in 6 years.
And of course, there are railroad tunnels that are quite a bit longer than that (over 30 miles) so it's certainly something that CAN be done.
Politically, though, it's tough for any politician to vote for something that won't yield any benefits for him during his term of office.
EDITED TO ADD: This came in at just under 13 miles:
87073
BushMasterBoy
08-05-2021, 15:30
Improve and pave all the passes. Give everybody more options. Work with what we already have.
clodhopper
08-05-2021, 16:02
Probably cheaper to just reconfigure and roof over the existing alignment than to actually tunnel through a new 13 mile tunnel. Like snow sheds, but mud slide sheds. There would still be slide maintenance, but it would roll off the highway and wouldnt affect traffic.
But that would cause excessive disturbance to the canyon so wouldnt be considered. A canyon that regularly goes through changes naturally.
Let’s hire Elon and his Boring Company to come do it for half price?
Let’s hire Elon and his Boring Company to come do it for half price?
That's what I was thinking.
You can still easily get to the western slope for those deals. Just have to detour off 70 on 40 up through Winter Park and go through Steamboat to Craig and take 13 south into Rifle. Easy as pie and probably only adds about four and a half or five hours to the drive each way.
Just in time for winter. [Coffee]
Let’s hire Elon and his Boring Company to come do it for half price?
He has said that he'd like to use that company to build a high speed train from Denver to SLC, which would then connect to points like Reno en route to San Francisco as part of his network. He could probably get from Union Station to Rifle before CDOT even gets the pass cleared of debris.
Keeping 82 open was quickly shotdown in acting this morning.
Let's see how the brute force of the National Guard handles helping clean without demoing the structures. They did a bad job in the 14 floods.
I just heard 'Polis Has Spoken' and his top priority is opening Glenwood Canyon!!
I think we can all rest assured that it is fixed. Praise Jerod!
I just heard 'Polis Has Spoken' and his top priority is opening Glenwood Canyon!!
I think we can all rest assured that it is fixed. Praise Jerod!
Grand standing. Let's rush to get it open even if we have to fix it twice just like chicken hop withe the last floods. Open by Thanksgiving or else.
Martinjmpr
08-09-2021, 19:11
Wife and I just came back from a trip to the Western Slope. We were camping at Grand Mesa.
Pros:
Absolutely gorgeous area!
Very few crowds
Weather was pleasant (on top of the mesa, that is, at 10,500'). Highs in the low 70's.
Cons:
7 HOURS to drive via 285 to Montrose and then up to Delta, through Cedaredge and up onto the mesa. My butt is still sore from the drive. Left at 8:08 this morning, got into Littleton around 3:30. Two stops, 20 minutes for lunch in Gunnison and 10 minutes for gas in Nathrop.
Fuel costs. This is a shot of what I paid for gas in Montrose:
SPEAKING OF FUEL, every gas station in Gunnison was either too crowded with RVs/tow vehicles out into the road, or out of gas (city market.)
87118
Grand standing. Let's rush to get it open even if we have to fix it twice just like chicken hop withe the last floods. Open by Thanksgiving or else.
Lol Hickenlooper spell correction...
buffalobo
08-09-2021, 21:58
Wife and I just came back from a trip to the Western Slope. We were camping at Grand Mesa.
Pros:
Absolutely gorgeous area!
Very few crowds
Weather was pleasant (on top of the mesa, that is, at 10,500'). Highs in the low 70's.
Cons:
7 HOURS to drive via 285 to Montrose and then up to Delta, through Cedaredge and up onto the mesa. My butt is still sore from the drive. Left at 8:08 this morning, got into Littleton around 3:30. Two stops, 20 minutes for lunch in Gunnison and 10 minutes for gas in Nathrop.
Fuel costs. This is a shot of what I paid for gas in Montrose:
SPEAKING OF FUEL, every gas station in Gunnison was either too crowded with RVs/tow vehicles out into the road, or out of gas (city market.)
87118The Grand Mesa and Surface creek valley have the best weather in the state for late summer. Even better if the fish are biting.
Those folks down in Gunnison valley/Grand Junction are getting nicely tanned/roasted.
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