Unrestricted vs. "Shall Issue"

[iamhunter]

What is everyone's opinion on the "Shall Issue" policy vs. a straight, unrestricted policy?

I was recently considering a move to Alaska, and did some research on their CCW laws only to find out they have unrestricted carry laws....

Seems pretty awesome to me. And even in lieu of this, they have fairly low homicide rates.

Take a place like DC... with no gun ownership period, and it has the highest homicide rate by over 200%.

Seems to me like the whole permit thing really doesn't accomplish that much...

Discuss.

[Irving]

I think part of the idea behind permits is to be able to bust punks and thugs who were up to no good while carrying a gun. Kind of like how you can get pulled over here with pot in your car and more likely than not, the PD will just throw your weed away and let you go. However, if you are a known gang banger, they'll use the weed to trump up your charges, or detain you, that kind of thing.

Also, be careful comparing a place like Alaska to a place like D.C. It is like comparing the murder rates of the Pawnee Grasslands and the most dense part of Aurora.

[Batteriesnare]

I wish this whole country was unrestricted in carry, especially in places like LA, DC, NY ect...

[TFOGGER]

Alaska is unique in that the state does not require permits, but will issue them to allow reciprocity with other states. Permits do tend to keep every Tom, Dick, and Harry from packing heat with no training, but overall, I think that a system like Alaska's is preferable to either a fully permitted system (Colorado), or a wholly unrestricted system(Vermont). Alaska law does have a number of restrictions on where you can carry, so it might be worth taking a state specific carry class, just so you know the law.

[Jumpstart]

Un-restricted carry. Un-restricted concealed carry. F T Paperwork.

[iamhunter]

I think part of the idea behind permits is to be able to bust punks and thugs who were up to no good while carrying a gun. Kind of like how you can get pulled over here with pot in your car and more likely than not, the PD will just throw your weed away and let you go. However, if you are a known gang banger, they'll use the weed to trump up your charges, or detain you, that kind of thing.

Also, be careful comparing a place like Alaska to a place like D.C. It is like comparing the murder rates of the Pawnee Grasslands and the most dense part of Aurora.


The idea behind permits is nothing. Punks and thugs don't GET permits. They just break the law and carry without.

And Believe it or not the population of Alaska exceeds that of washington DC... so it's not all that strange of a comparison. Anchorage has a 300,000 person population... and is enough of a "city" to make it comparable.

DC has the lowest gun ownership, and yet the highest incident of violent crime.

Australia banned guns a year or so ago. And violent crime shot up over 300%.

Switzerland has near 100% gun ownership, and yet the lowest violent crime rates om the world.

See the correlation?

[iamhunter]

Alaska is unique in that the state does not require permits, but will issue them to allow reciprocity with other states. Permits do tend to keep every Tom, Dick, and Harry from packing heat with no training, but overall, I think that a system like Alaska's is preferable to either a fully permitted system (Colorado), or a wholly unrestricted system(Vermont). Alaska law does have a number of restrictions on where you can carry, so it might be worth taking a state specific carry class, just so you know the law.

Alaska's restrictions are schools, courthouses, and domestic violence shelters.

Not all that far-reaching.

[Irving]

What I was trying to point out, is that as population gets more dense, crime goes up. I think even in a perfect world, that will always hold true.

[iamhunter]

What I was trying to point out, is that as population gets more dense, crime goes up. I think even in a perfect world, that will always hold true.

I agree, but the point I was making is that relative to it's population density, Anchorage's homicide rates are average/low.

While given DC's population density, it's homicide rates are atleast THREE TIMES normal.

Given that Alaska has unrestricted carry, and DC has pretty much a no-weapons policy,

it would seem that Unrestricted carry isn't the great evil many would have us believe.

[Irving]

Sorry to go in a different direction with your thread, but another thing to consider is how close D.C. and Anchorage are to other cities. A lot of the reason that Denver doesn't have a large gang problem, is because it is 600 miles from the next town near its size. It's not like the midwest where another major city is just a few hours drive away. Anchorage is probably the same thing.

As far as what you are actually asking, I think it wouldn't change much of who carries. It is still going to be gun owners who are aware of, and active about their rights, and thugs. The middle ground Fudds who just hunt once in a while or something aren't going to carry either way.

[iamhunter]

Sorry to go in a different direction with your thread, but another thing to consider is how close D.C. and Anchorage are to other cities. A lot of the reason that Denver doesn't have a large gang problem, is because it is 600 miles from the next town near its size. It's not like the midwest where another major city is just a few hours drive away. Anchorage is probably the same thing.

That's good in theory, but I spent 20 years in Las Vegas and it's the 12th worst city in the nation for crime, and one of the top 5 in violent crime... the nearest "big city" from vegas is either socal or phoenix, each of which is about 6 hours away atleast....

and they have huge gang problems.

[Irving]

I'd think at around that distance we would be splitting hairs. SLC is about 8 hours from Denver, but still isn't as big (that I know of). There is also the issue of Vegas being known as an out of control tourist town. I haven't exactly done any studies on this issue though, so I'm about out of input as far as this goes. I would like your take on the second half of my last statement though.

[Circuits]

Alaska is unique in that the state does not require permits, but will issue them to allow reciprocity with other states. Permits do tend to keep every Tom, Dick, and Harry from packing heat with no training, but overall, I think that a system like Alaska's is preferable to either a fully permitted system (Colorado), or a wholly unrestricted system(Vermont). Alaska law does have a number of restrictions on where you can carry, so it might be worth taking a state specific carry class, just so you know the law.

Alaska's not unique, in that they copied Vermont's unrestricted carry laws.

Now Alaska and Vermont are unique together.

[GreenScoutII]

Vermont style is the only constitutional way to go. Keep and BEAR arms is the way it was written. The criminal element will be armed regardless of what the law says. So, if the cops happen to encounter some thug with a pistol, they can simply add possession of a firearm by a felon to any other charges filed. In my opinion, concealed carry licensing, while better than prohibition, is just another obstacle to honest people being able to defend themselves against armed criminals.

[ryanek9freak]

Vermont style is the only constitutional way to go. Keep and BEAR arms is the way it was written. The criminal element will be armed regardless of what the law says. So, if the cops happen to encounter some thug with a pistol, they can simply add possession of a firearm by a felon to any other charges filed. In my opinion, concealed carry licensing, while better than prohibition, is just another obstacle to honest people being able to defend themselves against armed criminals.
+1. Reason # 426 why i WILL NEVER obtain a concealed carry permit. It's not neccessary, you can just open carry. I for one am not afraid of doing it, and I could give a shit less what anyone thinks of me.

I won't be "permitted" and charged out the ass to boot, for what's already a Constitutional RIGHT.

[Irving]

I'm going to contact that guy who wears the dollar bill three piece suit and inquire to see if there is a grant I can apply for to pay for my CCW. They should give grants for that if they are going to require all the hoops to go for.

[pickenup]

Vermont style is the only constitutional way to go. Keep and BEAR arms is the way it was written. The criminal element will be armed regardless of what the law says.

+1

[iamhunter]

I'd think at around that distance we would be splitting hairs. SLC is about 8 hours from Denver, but still isn't as big (that I know of). There is also the issue of Vegas being known as an out of control tourist town. I haven't exactly done any studies on this issue though, so I'm about out of input as far as this goes. I would like your take on the second half of my last statement though.


Most of the crime is local... the "strip", where most tourists spend their time, is heavily policed and relatively safe.... even at night.

Old downtown is pretty sketchy... alot of homeless and poverty level people...

but surprisingly the biggest problem is theft. Break-ins and burglary happen pretty much all around the city, even out in the 'burbs where I lived.

I'm not sure why the crime is so bad there. The best theory I can think of is that the property explosion attracted alot of low-income people to the valley and when the housing market burst they were left out on the streets, and in turn resorted to crime.

They also have a huge latino gang element that migrated from california in an effort to expand their influence...

People also seem to have lower moral standards...

i'm sure you've heard the whole "moral decay" theory.

[GreenScoutII]

I wish this whole country was unrestricted in carry, especially in places like LA, DC, NY ect...

I agree. The only times I felt I might actually "need" a pistol were when I visited Chicago Illinois and Kansas City, Missouri. Rough towns, both of them. Of course, I don't get why anyone would live in a city that size anyway, but thats just my humble opinion.http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

[sniper7]

I wish this whole country was unrestricted in carry, especially in places like LA, DC, NY ect...


there would be people taking special trips to visit those places just hoping for issues to arise.

[Batteriesnare]

True, but I would contend that there are those out there who get their CCW permits hoping for a gun battle on the streets here in Colorado.

My thought and hope would be that when (and not if) these issues arise in DC, LA, NY, or Denver, at least with an unrestricted carry policy there would a higher likelihood of a good, responsible armed citizen(s) that would be present to remedy the situation.

[Irving]

My thought and hope would be that when (and not if) these issues arise in DC, LA, NY, or Denver, at least with an unrestricted carry policy there would a higher likelihood of a good, responsible armed citizen(s) that would be present to remedy the situation.

Whatever, a good, responsible armed citizen would leave the premises and let the two dummies shoot each other.

[TFOGGER]

Alaska's not unique, in that they copied Vermont's unrestricted carry laws.

Now Alaska and Vermont are unique together.

What I meant was that Alaska is unique in that they will issue permits, so that their citizens can enjoy the benefits of reciprocity in other states, while Vermont does not, so their citizens would need nonresident permits to be able to carry in other jurisdictions, and would be SOL in Colorado(and several other states), as Colorado does not recognize nonresident CCW permits as being valid(bullshit, IMHO).

[Ranger353]

Whatever, a good, responsible armed citizen would leave the premises and let the two dummies shoot each other.

+1 Sometimes the best reaction is no reaction.