Random question: Doordash, Ubereats, Grubhub, etc....

[Martinjmpr]

This really isn't here nor there but I'm curious about something and I thought I'd throw it out here to the group since there are a wide variety of people on the board.

I've seen a few Facebook discussions about the various food delivery services like Uber Eats, grubhub, etc. I've never used them (nor ever wanted to) but as I understand it, this is a "gig based" thing like Uber or Lyft where people sign up and then if someone puts in an order, the order goes out to whoever happens to be logged on as "working" and who then agree to accept the delivery, deliver to the customer, etc.

So, being as how the drivers are independent contractors, they're not OBLIGATED to pick up anybody's order. They can pick up or refuse if they like.

Apparently, some (or maybe all?) of these apps also allow the purchaser to put a tip for the driver into their original order.

Now, I've never done this but I assume that an order goes something like this: Customer gets hungry and wants some Taco Bell but doesn't want to go get it. So he puts in an order for one of the apps. Let's say the total cost of the food itself is $10.00 (do they have a minimum? I would think so but I don't know.) IOW, if they drove to Taco Bell themselves, they'd pay $10.00 for the food ordered.

Since they're ordering from the app, there is also a delivery charge. I have no idea what that delivery charge is. Maybe another $10.00? So the person ordering sends a payment of $20.00 to the app. The App then sends the order to the nearest Taco Bell (or do you specify which one?) and pays them the $10.00 for the food. The driver gets maybe $4.00 and the rest goes to the app as the cost of running their business.

In addition to the delivery fee, the customer can also choose to tip the driver ahead of time, so, let's say, the driver can add a $3.00 tip for the driver so the driver now gets $7.00 instead of the contracted $4.00 that he gets from the app. And the driver can SEE this tip when the order comes in.

So, now, as I understand it, the tip is out there for "whoever" picks up the order. Which incentivizes drivers to pick up the order. IOW, I'm driving around, doing GrubHub, let's say, and an order comes in for a $10.00 Taco Bell order with a nice $20 tip. Everyone who is in the area that night gets it so I would imagine that a driver would be quick to "accept" that order so they could get that nice tip.

Have I got that right?

Because, if what I'm reading on Facebook and Next Door is right, the opposite also applies: Often times, Someone puts in an order and leaves NO tip on the order. Either because "I'm paying enough for this already" or "I'll wait to tip until AFTER service is rendered, not before." Either way the order is sitting out there in internet-land, waiting for a driver to "accept" the order which he then is contractually obligated to pick up and deliver to the customer.

And what I'm hearing is that drivers are going "Meh, not worth it to me to pick up and deliver an order for a measly $4" and they don't accept the order. The food sits there, presumably getting cold. I would guess if it sits there long enough, eventually it's going to get thrown away, especially if it is closing time for the restaurant.

Now, HERE is where my question comes in: What happens when the customer starts complaining to UberEats or GrubHub or whoever, and says "where's my food I paid for?"

Do the apps have some kind of "incentive" system where the longer an order has been pending without being accepted, the higher the payment to the driver so as to incentivize someone to go pick it up?

Or does it sit there with nobody picking it up? And then if the customer gets angry because he never got the food he paid for and demands a refund, I'm guessing that the app has to absorb that, correct? After all, it wouldn't be right to expect the restaurant to refund the money - they made the meal and put it where it was supposed to be. They did everything they were contractually obligated to do, right?

And since drivers have no specific obligation to accept any order, until and unless they do, they aren't responsible either.

Also what happens if it takes an hour and a half for someone to finally get around to picking up the food and it's cold and nasty by the time it gets to the customer? Can the customer get a refund from the delivery service? Or is there some kind of disclaimer with their service that they're not responsible for late deliveries?

And no, I'm not thinking about signing up to be an UberEats driver - with the cost of gas it would be a waste in my pickup. I'm just curious about how these sorts of things work, is all.

[Grant H.]

I don't have any personal experience on the driver side, but I did use the hell out of food panda and uber eats in Taiwan during the 2 week quarantine last fall... Handy, but I will never work any part of this "gig economy" bs.

For lyft and uber ride sharing, as I understand it, the details of the order are not shared with the driver until they accept it. They are only allowed to accept it if they are within a certain radius of the pickup point.

I expect that is true on the food side as well, otherwise you would have people never accepting "low value" orders.

[newracer]

The restaurant doesn't get the order until it is accepted. With some restaurants the driver actually places the order. When a tip is given through the app the driver doesn't get all of it.

[Martinjmpr]

The restaurant doesn't get the order until it is accepted. With some restaurants the driver actually places the order. When a tip is given through the app the driver doesn't get all of it.

Ah, OK that makes a lot more sense. Otherwise I can envision orders just sitting there for hours waiting for someone to pick it up.

Interesting that the driver doesn't keep all of the tip. Is a portion withheld for tax purposes? Wait, these are independent contractors so there should be no withholding, just a 1099 at the end of the year, right?

[newracer]

I forget the formula but each delivery has a minimum the driver will get. They use the tip to get to that minimum. If the total doesn't go over the minimum the driver doesn't see the additional money.

[TEAMRICO]

I don’t even like having pizza delivered to my house. I go get the take out myself.

[def90]

The restaurant also gets docked a percentage of the order cost as in you buy $8.50 worth of Taco Bell, Taco Bell actually only gets paid $7.00. On their end I guess $7 is better than $0 if the customer just stays home and doesn't order anything. Which also means that in the future all food prices will be raised across the board to cover the loss to delivery services and we end up paying for someone else's delivery.

[CS1983]

When we have used them, we put a 20% tip, but then I always tip extra cash when they come to make up their trouble. Don?t use them often, usually when being lazy, sick, on a bunch of WFH meetings.

But we always tip delivery drivers well anyway. I remember my dad struggling with it as a second job for Dominoes, and I?ve had some friends with horror stories. People treat the drivers horribly and tip like cheapskates.

I figure if I?m being lazy, it needs to cost me. An extra $5-10 isn?t much to me, but it?s a big deal to some of those drivers.

[RblDiver]

Speaking from the Doordash customer side, I don't think I've ever had an order not be accepted. If there's an issue, you can either do some automated complaint via the app and get automatic resolution, or you can talk to a live person. Generally the easiest is just to get credit, though I think if you talk to a person, you can get the money back on your card (maybe you can through the app version too, not sure).

I've never had a claimed delivery that didn't happen, but I have had wrong deliveries. Usually just some piece missing (like a drink or the like). Once I got someone else's order in addition to mine, though I made sure when I contacted DD I pointed out it was the restaurant's fault (printed my name on all the items, even the wrong ones). Once, I got the entirely wrong order, so they refunded me my whole order (and of course I got to keep what they delivered, not that it was very great but hey, free food I guess). It was through that that I found out that the App can group orders together from the same restaurant, which is why sometimes you'll see the driver seemingly going off in the other direction.

Also, I'm pretty sure the DD extra tip goes 100% to the driver. They have a suggested amount based on how hard it is for the driver (like distance and number of items I think), not a percentage, for my typical order they suggest $5 which I'm fine with.

Anyhow, TL;DR, it works well enough most of the time.

[ray1970]

I don?t even like having pizza delivered to my house. I go get the take out myself.

Same here. If there?s an issue with my delivery driver then I know who to blame.

[.455_Hunter]

Due to our current home's location, getting food delivered would be humorous, and the last thing I want are more people up here poking around. When we lived in Arvada, we did get pizza delivered on occasion. I happened to be at a McDonald's last night and asked a driver what he made on a typical order there- $6 to $7, maybe more if tip is really good.

[Gman]

We use Door Dash probably more often than most people. Like Uber Eats, they have a monthly subscription that negates many of the fees. We have had orders come that were incorrect or missing something and Door Dash has been good about getting us credits.

Had an order a couple weeks ago where the restaurant accepted it, then cancelled it when the driver showed up for the pickup,

Sometimes when it?s busy, some restaurants stop taking orders for a while.

When you have 2 people that are mobility impaired and working from home, it?s convenient. When those same people who frequently use Walmart grocery pickup have no kitchen during a remodel?

[funkymonkey1111]

i don't know how it is with different restaurants and different services, but i've seen at Del Taco that they don't even start making the order until the driver gets there, which apparently causes some heartburn because the driver is then sitting there waiting for the food to be prepared (e.g., they're not just running in and picking up a to-go order waiting on them)

[Martinjmpr]

So since I opened up this topic, my curiosity has piqued: What, typically, are the delivery charges added on?

I'm just wondering about how much this is actually costing people. It just seems to me that the delivery charge has to be a not insignificant amount seeing as how the driver and the company both have to get paid enough to make it worth their while.

And yes, now I remember that the delivery company also takes a bite from the restaurant as well, so I guess that helps them recoup some of the costs.

But let's say a typical order for two people - maybe something that would be $12- $15 if I went and picked it up myself, what would that cost if I did an Uber, DD, etc?

[encorehunter]

I can say that Door dash charges the restaurant 15% of the order. Most restaurants up their prices to counter that. 15% takes out most of the profit, if not all in these times.

[RblDiver]

Talking consumer side, I have the Dash Pass, iirc $12-15/month (I forget), which waives most delivery fees (pretty much any order over $10 is free delivery with this). If I didn't have it, delivery and fees would be...probably $4 or so (excluding driver tip).

[FoxtArt]

From what I've read in the past, the providers keep increasing the driver pay in .50 cent increments until someone accepts it. I don't know if that is based on time or based on per-rejection.

[Gman]

It depends on how much you spend. If you're buying a quick lunch, you might be paying double. If you're stuck at work in meetings with only coffee for your intake since dinner, it might be worth it.

If I'm able, I prefer to pick it up myself. I get it cheaper and quicker.

[BladesNBarrels]

I am not a user of the food delivery or ride share apps after my first Uber experience in Seattle.
The driver left us 4 blocks from our destination, a restaurant, because his GPS directed him to the spot.
He didn't speak English that I could understand and told us that is where it was.
After leaving the car, I called the restaurant and they guided us in.
The ride home was with a Seattle native that took us right to the door, so I guess fifty fifty experience.
The Nextdoor site had a conversation about the food delivery drivers, started by one asking that users leave tips.
Two other drivers participated and explained they saw the tips up front and would not sign in if it wasn't cost effective for them.
Sometimes, no one would volunteer.
I think we will be seeing more of this.

[ChadAmberg]

I've used them several times. Not constantly or anything, but except for once have had a really nice experience. It's been really friendly drivers, quick service, etc. each time. And I love using Instacart to get stuff from Costco, not having to deal with that trip is worth every penny!

The only bad experience was we ordered some dinner delivery last New Years Eve. The driver broke down on the interstate on the way here, and by that time it was getting too late to do something else. So the year started with a PBJ.

[Eric P]

A food delivery service dropped about $100 of Chinese food at my door. I didn't order and left it there (townhome). No one picked it up by the next morning and it went to the garbage. What a waste.

I don't get why any restaurant would pay another companies delivery fee. It should be the restaurant gets its full price & tax and the customer pays the delivery fee.

I also hate waiting in line behind virtual customers.

[Ah Pook]

I tried a secondary food delivery twice. Both times the food was cold and took forever. The fees for secondary deliveries cuts into the profit of the restaurant.

I only order carry out from restaurants that offer "in house" delivery. I tip well (cash) and the delivery drivers remember it. I can get Asian takeout, in 20 minutes, on a weekend evening.

Lived in Nederland and had to get off my keister to get food. My favorite thing about Lakewood is food comes to my house. [Dinner] [PizzaHut]

An aside: Didn't CA pass a law against the "gig" economy (musicians, contractors, lyft...)

[arbol]

<-- Never has used Uber, never will.

Uber (stealing money from highly regulated Taxi Companies)

Now, imagine taxis bringing your dinner. :o

[StagLefty]

The clubhouse where I live constantly has McD's bags in front of the door. I took a couple of them into the Mgr. thinking she had missed seeing them since she comes in the back door when she arrives. Both times it wasn't a delivery for her and she told me McD's does it all the time and the receipt on the bag never has a name or lot #. I've had several knocks on my door with food deliveries that weren't for my address !!!

[FoxtArt]

Does McDonalds qualify as catfood?

[tactical_2012]

I recently spent 23 day in the hospital for a work related injury and can tell you hospital food might as well be garbage. I used door dash several times and half the time I got the food brought to my room other half the time I had to message the driver got figure out what they did with my food as they would leave it at the first desk they could. All Nd all food delivery service while be stuck in the the hospital is a must.

[Gman]

Got a notification when we ordered dinner last night that Door Dash now has an annual subscription. Basically 3 months free compared to month-to-month and refunded this month's charge.

[XJ]

Never used any of the new-fangled services, and have no plans.

Only used Domino's once in the last ~20 years, the day that I got my positive COVID notification. Asked for the driver to leave it on the porch, and they waited to see me open the door then waved. Would order again.

[MrPrena]

I really do not have anything to contribute to this thread, but I have never ordered from those 3rd party delivery.
Heck , I am too cheap to even order delivery.

I would rather pickup a food before/during/after meeting with 12-15mpg vehicle to save $10-20.

[Coffee]


this is how I think sometimes (not always). I would rather for sure save $10-20 in-hand than maybe save $100-200 potential/possible opportunity cost.

[Martinjmpr]

Well, my overall point is that it seems to me that the likes of GH, DD, etc, along with Uber and Lyft, are ultimately not sustainable business models.

The reason I say that is that it seems to me (as an outsider) that if the people doing the driving actually sat down and figured out what it was costing them in fuel, wear-and-tear on their vehicles, and idling time waiting for an order or waiting to pick someone up, they would quickly realize that they are in essence working for probably $5 - $6 an hour. IF that.

So, these businesses stay afloat by having a stream of people who will act as "employees" only until they realize it's not a good deal for them. And pretty soon, the companies run out of drivers and have nothing else to fall back on.

Maybe I'm wrong, who knows? My wife has a friend who drove for Uber Black and apparently that was a good deal for her, at least she thought it was. Certainly I understand the appeal of "work when you want, as much as you want" but it seems like if you really factored in the costs and the time, you'd see that most of these drivers aren't making very good money at all. Not even minimum wage in most cases.

I'm particularly thinking of the likes of Uber and Lyft where you not only have to pick up and drop off your passengers, but you also have to make sure your car is clean, vacuumed, have bottled water for your passengers, maintainance, etc, and all that stuff is on your own time and your own dime.

I wonder how long most of these services actually "keep" an employee?

[MrPrena]

Maybe a dude want to lower the tax bracket from top to 2nd-3rd tier with bunch of vehicle expense writeoff w/ Lambo Aventador SVJ delivery car.

[Driver]


https://www.forbes.com/advisor/taxes/taxes-federal-income-tax-bracket/

[StagLefty]

Does McDonalds qualify as catfood?

Only if cooked purrrfectly !!!! [ROFL2]

[rondog]

As a cheap old bastard it'll be a cold day in hell when I order any kind of food delivery. Even pizza and Chinese gets my fatass rolling after it. And pizza is always Papa Murphy's, cooked at home and piping hot! (WTF does "piping" mean, anyway?)

Ain't using Uber or Lyft either.

[Eric P]

As a cheap old bastard it'll be a cold day in hell when I order any kind of food delivery. Even pizza and Chinese gets my fatass rolling after it. And pizza is always Papa Murphy's, cooked at home and piping hot! (WTF does "piping" mean, anyway?)

Ain't using Uber or Lyft either.

Car dealers have reverted to using ride share to replacing courtesy rides. I had a recall on my car and instead of a ride by their shuttle the ordered a ride and the same to pick me up.

I have used lyft a few times in other cities to go from the airport to a hotel for work. Much nicer cars than taxis and quite a bit cheaper. Used Uber in Quebec city for the same thing during a taxi strike. The hotel was across from parliament parliament and blocking access. Had to be dropped off a block away.

[rondog]

Car dealers have reverted to using ride share to replacing courtesy rides. I had a recall on my car and instead of a ride by their shuttle the ordered a ride and the same to pick me up.

Well, if someone else wants to pay for it, sure.....

[FoxtArt]

I've taken an Uber I think twice that I can recall. Once in Iowa, once in Salt Lake City. Maybe in NYC but I am a bit fuzzy on that. Usually from airports to my first stop. As an independent spirit, I'm not big on paying people for services.


THATS WHY I STIFFED THEM ALL HAHAHA (just kidding, yes, I tip well). Overall it isn't too strange. When you're a long way from home sometimes you have to, and I honestly slightly prefer a rideshare over a taxi. Sucks for Taxi drivers, but something to understand is the medallion system/government fraud is at fault there. Take that away and Uber wouldn't exist, at all. Nearly all "taxis" used to be rideshare in essence, until organized racket and politicians got together and exchanged bundles of up to a million+ in cash to cut out the competition.

[FoxtArt]

And if anything will be the death of Uber/Lyft, it'll be local politicians once again trying to squeeze millions out of a fake coin.

Luckily, Uber and Lift being analogous to a nation-wide union, it's not so easy to do.... Perfect system, hell no, either way (taxi or these companies).

If we demolished the medallion system and let independent drivers do their own thing while abiding by baseline regs and/or free/nearly free licensing, maybe that is what it should be.

[MrPrena]

I had no choice to use Lyft few times when I was in Wadhington. Asshole sister in law loves to *uck us over on a ride commitment.

[RblDiver]

piping hot! (WTF does "piping" mean, anyway?)

I think it's a reference to heating pipes. Basically, buildings used to (some still do) have boilers that'd circulate hot water through the pipes to heat the building. Said pipes would get pretty darn hot, hence piping hot.

[SideShow Bob]

Speaking of Uber & Lyft, what ever happened to that driver who shot his passenger in supposedly self defense ?


And on this thread?s topic, I had a door dash driver try to deliver someone else?s order to my residence. He even tried to insist that he was at the right address.
I almost accepted it just to get him off my front porch??
Wonder what would have happened to their system if I would have taken the order ?

[BladesNBarrels]

WTF does "piping" mean, anyway?

Well, that got me curious and after Google searching, there appears to be a number of explanations.
The one description that dated back to the 1600's that seems to be likely

The derivation of this little phrase is the sizzling, whistling sound made by steam escaping from very hot food, which is similar to the sound of high-pitched musical pipes.
An early citation is given in Philemon Holland's translation of Pliny's Historie of the world, 1601:

"Beanes... fried all whole as they be, and so cast piping hot into sharp vineger."

[Aloha_Shooter]

I've used Uber once. Hated it -- they directed the driver to the wrong side of the mall from where I was at. He cancelled the fare after waiting for 5 or 10 minutes. I had to make another Uber reservation and it ended up being the same driver so I ended up getting charged twice for the ride and waiting an extra 20 minutes. I'd have avoided that if the mall had a regular taxi stand or if I'd had a phone number I could call but I was in another country and while I had data, I didn't have a "local" phone number. Uber and Lyft started off claiming to be ride-sharing services and seemed reasonable but time has revealed that they were really about establishing national taxi services that avoided local laws. I have to admit, that aspect has me divided because I think a lot of the local medallion laws are simple corruption to preserve effective monopolies but it seems to me that Uber and Lyft are fundamentally dishonest .

I've avoided the food delivery services like the plague once I read how they were screwing over restaurants. I also talked to a couple of restauranteurs who explained why they refused to work with certain delivery services (but said delivery services still had their restaurant listed). Chase gave us a $60/mo credit with DoorDash when I had their Sapphire Reserve card but I simply refused to use it as DD seems like a parasite on both the restaurants and the delivery drivers. I'd rather just make the food run myself than feed money to the neterati.

[BladesNBarrels]

Traveled frequently to the big cities in the 80's and 90's when the only choice was Taxi's.
After being taken on long way tours to jack up the fare, I learned to negotiate the price up front.
Had to jump out of a Taxi in New York once and tell the driver I was going to get a cop when he started to divert from the agreed route.
More options give more choices.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

The thing about the food delivery is that I wish the 'tip' was based more on the miles/effort than on the food price. What does the food price matter to the driver??? Its distance and how hard it is to park and get the food. I've ordered from places in downtown Denver that I know are hard to park and pick up, and then they aren't that close.

My mother in law has an in resturant tipping formula. 20% or $5 a head. So if you aren't drinking and its a cheap place you might not hit $25 per person. It really only comes down to lunches and breakfasts, and in reality for a family of 4-5 it doesn't matter much- but it reflects the effort, not the price of the food.