View Full Version : Arbery Trial: Was Ahmaud Arbery Murdered? Or Was His Killing Justified?
Vic Tory
11-19-2021, 20:39
It took me four pages on my search before I found a non-MSM link.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/ahmaud-arbery-murder-trial-jury-views-video-of-arbery-roaming-vacant-property
Before the Rittenhouse case I'd never have thought someone was stupid enough to try and GRAB a gun from someone. So I'm waiting to see how this turns out....
"The three men argue that they were chasing Arbery to make a citizen’s arrest following several break-ins that had recently occurred in the area. Greg McMichael told police that his son shot Arbery in self-defense after Arbery attempted to attack Travis McMichael with his fists and tried to grab the younger McMichael’s shotgun."
theGinsue
11-19-2021, 23:29
I don't know enough about the evidence in the case to provide my own informed verdict but what I saw on the MSM just after this event unfolded doesn't bode well for the accused. My guess is at least 2 of the 3 will be convicted (not sure where the 3rd person came in on all of this - I'd originally only heard about the father and son).
OtterbatHellcat
11-20-2021, 03:43
I don't think it's uncommon for a small neighborhood to be aware of shitbaggery nearby, and get interested in finding out what's going on when something unusual has happened more than once recently.
I have gone to a neighbors house before when suspicious actions were taking place, to check it out and make sure stuff is okay.
3rd guy was just driving and pulled up while arbery getting shot.
I think state should have granted plea deal and save time on this.
Defendant who was on a stand seems to know that he is probably going to prison.
Relative to Rittenhouse case, there are more smiling and small laughs at the courts.
BushMasterBoy
11-20-2021, 10:46
Grab a mans gun and you get what you deserve.
Vic Tory
11-20-2021, 11:40
3rd guy was just driving and pulled up while arbery getting shot.Wasn't he the one filming the action?
I don't know all the details, but from what I've read it's likely murder. Black dude's just out for a run, and goes by two rednecks that suddenly think he must be the neighborhood burglar, so they chase him down with guns and confront him. Dude tries to defend himself against the foamy-mouthed rednecks and gets shot.
Sound about right? I see no justification here. Running down the street ain't the same as running down the street with a TV under each arm.....
Vic Tory
11-20-2021, 12:09
And Arbery's past was quickly used to justify the shooting.
I don't think those two can get away with murder ... just because Arbery committed crimes before.
Wasn't he the one filming the action?
yeah. I believe he was holding onto the phone while driving and while stopping the vehicle.
not a lot of defense on this guy from defense attorney the day I was watching the coverage.
I don't know all the details, but from what I've read it's likely murder. Black dude's just out for a run, and goes by two rednecks that suddenly think he must be the neighborhood burglar, so they chase him down with guns and confront him. Dude tries to defend himself against the foamy-mouthed rednecks and gets shot.
Sound about right? I see no justification here. Running down the street ain't the same as running down the street with a TV under each arm.....
So wrong. And i wish this thread was made actually closer to when it happened so I would still have the sources to show . Guy 100% was up to no good. The narrative was out for a jog when he was like 20 miles from home. Criminal history of it. Articles covered "the jogger" burglar etc.
Now being a dirt bag is not justification for the shooting. This one's far uglier because they tried to make a shitty attempt to chase him for arrest, compounded by arberrys incomprehensible decision to rush them for the gun. Looks much like any police activity channel video of suicide by cop in terms of poor choices.
Vic Tory
11-20-2021, 13:29
... Guy 100% was up to no good. The narrative was out for a jog when he was like 20 miles from home. Criminal history of it. Articles covered "the jogger" burglar etc.So what?
For crimes against property you call the cops. You don't decide to "deputize yourselves" and then appoint yourselves executioners. You use your head.
... Looks much like any police activity channel video of suicide by cop in terms of poor choices.The McMichaels were not cops.
You have a curious point of view on this case, IMO.
^^^ Agree. Also not sure where the “20 miles from his home came from”. Everything I saw stated he was about 2 miles from his home.
If two random bubbas are chasing you down with a firearm, an average person is not reasonably inferring that they intend to arrest you. It is not the same thing as suicide by cop and an unarmed person may very well try to do anything in their power if they carry a belief that Bubba wants to kill 'em. (not a reasonable belief 99.9% of the time with law enforcement).
PS: The burdens change in some states (including here) when you execute a citizens arrest. The standards can shift away from "reasonable belief" and are much more heightened, they have to all but be actively trying to kill you if you are doing a citizens arrest before you can utilize lawful deadly physical force.
Precisely for the reason as seen in this case. Our country was founded on a principle that no one man can be the arresting officer, judge, and jury. Even if he is bubba and bubba jr, they cannot be all three. So long as a capital offense is not witnessed, killing a "shithead" simply because they were doing shithead things cannot be justified as moral.
if someone wanna rip off copper and tools,I would be bringing large truck with trailer, not on a jogger pants.
heck, at least wear a cargo pants.
As stated, many of people do go into new residential constructions to check out the plan and etc.
Correct way to do neighborhood watch should have been, identify the item burger ripped off and confirm. Then follow the guy at a safe distance and call the cops.
Arbery did not have anything on him. Court hearing confirmed that even those stooges said arbery had nothing with him.
They cornered the guy with truck and shotgun. I would be damn horrified if I was arb, and I would try to take the shotgun away too when presented (or pointed).
That being said, those 2 of 3 stooges really di notnmeant to kill.
They just wanted to protect the neighborhood.
I think manslaughter charges and one accessory would be fair.
as for tin foils.
-no evidence that Arbery is BLM.
-no evidence that 3 stooges are white supremist.
Little Dutch
11-20-2021, 16:12
So wrong. And i wish this thread was made actually closer to when it happened so I would still have the sources to show . Guy 100% was up to no good. The narrative was out for a jog when he was like 20 miles from home. Criminal history of it. Articles covered "the jogger" burglar etc.
Now being a dirt bag is not justification for the shooting. This one's far uglier because they tried to make a shitty attempt to chase him for arrest, compounded by arberrys incomprehensible decision to rush them for the gun. Looks much like any police activity channel video of suicide by cop in terms of poor choices.
Basically this. The whole thing got memory-holed. At the time the media was reporting what you've stated.
There's a distressingly large percentage of people willing to believe the current media narrative. Distressing because we're literally one day past Rittenhouse and they should know better. The media has sent out the bait and they took it without consideration.
We'll have to see what comes out during the trial to actually know anything.
We'll have to see what comes out during the trial to actually know anything.
Trial is basically done. Jury instructions are Monday, then they go into deliberations.
BushMasterBoy
11-20-2021, 16:37
Depends on how much money you have. But these guys are not Bill Gates.
There is no doubt that they had little to zero intention of killing him from the inset. What exactly they were wanting to do is not entirely obvious. Chase him down and rough him up? Do a citizens arrest and then.. what exactly?
Bad decisions have consequences, even if made in the heat of the moment. That's why most people don't chase down suspicious looking people like a dog treeing a coon, there are risks involved in more than one way that are not worth the reward.
I'm not saying they executed him because he was a bad guy; Undoubtedly it was not their plan. Those comments are only in relation to rationalizing "well he deserved it anyway". It's not so incomprehensible to go for the gun in the circumstances, these guys were not law enforcement officers stepping out to arrest someone. What their intent was we can only speculate even all these months from now. Arbery made a bad decision to go for it, but it's easy to understand why he may have made that decision. They made a much worse decision to go after him in the first place.
Altogether, it's a spectacular failure of "in the moment" decisions all around, the majority of the fault comes upon the guys that unnecessarily escalated it. If a man is assaulted next to the railroad tracks and tries to flee right into a train - we don't blame the train, and we don't blame the man that was assaulted, even if it would be a bad decision to run onto tracks blindly. The people who escalated the incident resulting in the need for fast decision making in the first place are where blame rests.
Zundfolge
11-20-2021, 17:26
One of the sticking points in the Rittenhouse case is "did Kyle unnecessarily cause the situation he needed to defend himself from" and in his case it was determined that no, he did not create the situation. That is basically the same issue in the Arbery case.
I believe that Arbery was likely a dirtbag that was casing the neighborhood and construction site, looking for something to steal. I also believe that there's a good chance that the guy that shot him unnecessarily created the situation whereby Arbery felt the need to grab for his gun and thus he was shot by the defendant while "defended himself". Note I say this merely by looking at the evidence shown in the media so who knows how this one will really turn out, but I'm inclined to agree that manslaughter is probably appropriate here (but again, this is assuming we haven't been lied to by the media ... which we have no assurance of).
I do not envy the jury in either case.
I do not envy the jury in either case.
+10 to that. I was just talking with a friend who finished a jury verdict two days ago over a domestic/child situation. What a mess... and it's not even a public case. And on top of it all, the first three days are unpaid, and the forth - whoopty doo - its $50, which they have to do a tax form on and which'll probably cost you more than $50 come tax time to deal with. Awesome for those self employed (she is).
Then, is no matter what the jury finds, the judge determines the sentence. She was upset that they didn't find the guy guilty on the last charge (they did, however, on several). It's like.... the end result wouldn't be an iota different. The judge would still deliver the same sentence he planned on delivering whether it was 7 or 8 felonies. All the work the jury puts in and the system tries hard to make them fairly irrelevant, but lets disproportionate blame/attention fall on them. If a judge wants them innocent they'll do a directed verdict, if they like the defendant it's 2 years probation, if they don't it's 30 years.
What has the jury been doing all the years, except making the show seem legitimate?
Public cases... FTJL (F*** the juries life).
So wrong. And i wish this thread was made actually closer to when it happened so I would still have the sources to show . Guy 100% was up to no good. The narrative was out for a jog when he was like 20 miles from home. Criminal history of it. Articles covered "the jogger" burglar etc.
Now being a dirt bag is not justification for the shooting. This one's far uglier because they tried to make a shitty attempt to chase him for arrest, compounded by arberrys incomprehensible decision to rush them for the gun. Looks much like any police activity channel video of suicide by cop in terms of poor choices.
See, I was merely going off of what minimal info I had about this incident, which happened quite some time ago, and I've paid little attention to. Read about it, moved on.
So what?
For crimes against property you call the cops. You don't decide to "deputize yourselves" and then appoint yourselves executioners. You use your head.
The McMichaels were not cops.
You have a curious point of view on this case, IMO.
Good thing you didn't quote my whole post where I said it doesn't matter to the legality of the shoot. Just being angry by the false narrative on the news about some innocent angel.
Vic Tory
11-21-2021, 20:31
Good thing you didn't quote my whole post where I said it doesn't matter to the legality of the shoot.I went back and looked. I still don't see that in your post -- before editing.
Just being angry by the false narrative on the news about some innocent angel.This sentence fragment is confusing. Are you stating you think I am angry? ... you are angry? ... others are angry?
(It just occurred to me. Is English not your primary language? I don't mean for this to be any sort of slur. I'm wondering if you're accustomed to the syntax of a different language, and maybe that's what is throwing me off...?)
"Innocent angel?" I reviewed each post in this thread. Nobody was asserting Arbery was any kind of innocent angel.
BushMasterBoy
11-21-2021, 21:45
War of words? LOL
Vic Tory
11-22-2021, 11:17
I hope not, BMB. One of the things I like very much about this forum is -- unlike Twittsville -- when people do not share the same point of view, it is discussed.
There's an often-posted meme about social media about "How to start an argument on ___ SM site.
1. Post an opinion.
2. Wait.
I don't know fitz. I haven't encountered his posts before this thread. I hope my posts are perceived as seeking understanding, rather than descending into knee-jerk name-calling....
closing argument.
I predict this will take 2 days.
Travis guilty on all counts
Greg not guilty on count 1, guilty on the rest
William Bryan
Not guilty on 1
Not guilty on 2
Guilty on 3
Guilty on 4
Guilty on 5
Not guilty on 6
Guilty on 7
Guilty on 8
Guilty on 9
cnn has a good breakdown on counts.
breakdown of each of the counts that defendants were charged with in the case, along with the maximum penalties:
Count 1:?Malice murder
Maximum penalty: Life without the possibility of parole
Count 2:?Felony murder (Felony offense: Aggravated assault with a firearm)
Count 3:?Felony murder (Felony offense: Aggravated assault with pickup trucks)
Count 4:?Felony murder (Felony offense: False imprisonment)
Count 5:?Felony Murder (Felony offense: Criminal attempt to commit a felony)
Maximum penalty for any of the four charges:?Life without the possibility of parole
Count 6:?Aggravated assault (with firearms)
Count 7:?Aggravated assault (with pickup trucks)
Maximum penalty:?20 years
Count 8:?False imprisonment
Maximum penalty:?10 years
Count 9:?Criminal attempt to commit a felony
Maximum penalty: Five years
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/ahmaud-arbery-killing-trial-verdict-watch-11-24-21/index.html
Vic Tory
11-24-2021, 17:56
closing argument.
I predict this will take 2 days.So you know, I remembered this prediction of yours.
You got it.
Good outcome. Dumb fvcks need to mind their own and let the hired guns do the deed.
Take a picture or video, never try to restrain.
Aloha_Shooter
11-25-2021, 01:36
Good outcome. Dumb fvcks need to mind their own and let the hired guns do the deed.
Take a picture or video, never try to restrain.
That's what I would have said before I read Andrew Branca's rundown prior to the prosecution's rebuttal.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/11/arbery-case-trial-based-on-closing-arguments-not-guilty-verdicts-a-real-possibility/
https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/11/arbery-case-state-closing-rebuttal-presents-as-frantic-pleading-desperate/
Sadly for the defendants, the judge seems to have dropped the ball on Georgia's citizens arrest statutes in place at the time (they've since been changed).
https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/11/arbery-case-trial-judge-walmsley-drops-the-ball-on-ambiguous-citizens-arrest-law/
Branca's columns changed my mind on this case because all I'd heard before were the vagueries from the left wing media. This WAS their own business -- the properties in their neighborhood which had been robbed repeatedly. How on earth the third guy is convicted when he happened on the scene late, wasn't coordinating with the other two, and didn't fire a shot? I want to know how many of the jurors were swayed by the promises of violence after Kyle Rittenhouse was acquitted and fear for their own communities.
I'm going to guess that at a minimum the last guy's conviction will be overturned on appeal and think the other two have a strong case for appeal. We'll see.
From the first article you posted:
“The number of references to the “stupid n-word” statement made in the actual trial? None. It’s disappeared.”
I believe the GBI investigator referenced this in his testimony based on his interview of Bryan. So, I don’t know how much trust I put into Branch’s opinion on the verdicts. I didn’t read the entire articles, but if he got that one wrong I have to wonder what else he missed.
That's what I would have said before I read Andrew Branca's rundown prior to the prosecution's rebuttal.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/11/arbery-case-trial-based-on-closing-arguments-not-guilty-verdicts-a-real-possibility/
https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/11/arbery-case-state-closing-rebuttal-presents-as-frantic-pleading-desperate/
Sadly for the defendants, the judge seems to have dropped the ball on Georgia's citizens arrest statutes in place at the time (they've since been changed).
https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/11/arbery-case-trial-judge-walmsley-drops-the-ball-on-ambiguous-citizens-arrest-law/
Branca's columns changed my mind on this case because all I'd heard before were the vagueries from the left wing media. This WAS their own business -- the properties in their neighborhood which had been robbed repeatedly. How on earth the third guy is convicted when he happened on the scene late, wasn't coordinating with the other two, and didn't fire a shot? I want to know how many of the jurors were swayed by the promises of violence after Kyle Rittenhouse was acquitted and fear for their own communities.
I'm going to guess that at a minimum the last guy's conviction will be overturned on appeal and think the other two have a strong case for appeal. We'll see.
Still it's not your job to be a citizen cop. Be a good witness and let the pros do their job. Do you really have the authority to restrain? If the restrained did nothing wrong, do they have right to self defense from some wacko trying to kidnap them?
Unless you have a badge back off. You have no business trying to arrest anyone.
Aloha_Shooter
11-26-2021, 14:26
Still it's not your job to be a citizen cop. Be a good witness and let the pros do their job. Do you really have the authority to restrain? If the restrained did nothing wrong, do they have right to self defense from some wacko trying to kidnap them?
Unless you have a badge back off. You have no business trying to arrest anyone.
Under Georgia's statutes at the time, they did have authority to restrain. It was called citizen's arrest and it was legal at the time. In fact, the detective who was investigating the burglaries of the construction sites said he told the residents of the neighborhood -- including the accused -- about the footage of the person wandering through the house on several nights and told them to watch for him.
The prosecutor's summaries didn't mention any racism because they had no evidence of it even though that was a primary reason in the press for proceeding with the prosecution.
Gray hair guy with idiot friends is about to get sentenced.
Under Georgia's statutes at the time, they did have authority to restrain. It was called citizen's arrest and it was legal at the time. In fact, the detective who was investigating the burglaries of the construction sites said he told the residents of the neighborhood -- including the accused -- about the footage of the person wandering through the house on several nights and told them to watch for him.
The prosecutor's summaries didn't mention any racism because they had no evidence of it even though that was a primary reason in the press for proceeding with the prosecution.
Are you justified in self defense against some random person attempting to perform a citizens arrest? For all you know, that person could be attempting to kidnap, rob or worse.
BushMasterBoy
01-07-2022, 16:22
Life sentences. Definitely was not like the Zimmerman trial.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Trayvon_Martin
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