Marshall Fire Prospective

[GeorgeandSugar]

Good article. No real surprise on root causes. Surprised it had not happened earlier. Tragic. Hopefully a wake-up call to our government officials.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/01/06/the-colorado-wildfire-and-global-warming-is-there-a-connection/


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[BPTactical]

Good read, thanks for posting.
As far as our politicos learning from it……ain’t gonna happen.
They know what is best already

[arbol]

That's a really good post, thanks for sharing it GeorgeandSugar, I'm going to send it to my Aunt, whom I am sure is terribly distressed on what Louisville and Superior have come to.

[GeorgeandSugar]

When I think on this I wonder if our wild land fire officials ever brought this up suggested fire breaks and other mitigation measures?

When we were living in the mountains defensible place was always stressed. I recall a grass fire that took off and burned a lot of grass land with mild to moderate winds. No structures involved and rather harmless, but came as a surprise the amount of acreage consumed afterwards.


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[BushMasterBoy]

I wonder if Colorado should have its own micro satellite for early warning fire control. Geostationary IR surveillance would be handy to correlate with weather data. I'll be mowing weeds tomorrow regardless. Just an idea.

[battlemidget]

Interesting read!

[DFBrews]

Ooof? reads like an opinion article from rolling stone.

Personal opinion take it as y?all will.
Have a couple quals though

Have fairly intense experience in grass and range management at the federal level. Along with wild land fire mitigation and suppression it paid my bills with for a while when I worked for the USFS in range fire and wilderness.

My GF is a landscape architect with a focus on restoring natives and modifying waterways to reduce chances of the floods like what happened in lyons again as well as defensible space
Mother is national forest rangeland management
Father wildlife biologist focus on impact studies of herbivores on riparian area

The anti climate smoking gun they are shooting for is muted and grain of salted with facts they state.

It was 100% caused by humans and Their policy. I agree there

But devils straw man?. How many members live in dense suburban housing situations like outlines I bet it?s over 90% if it was spread out enough there would be no way we could afford to live here and sustain. I couldn?t afford 2.5 acres anywhere in the metro area
Invasive grasses burn faster and hotter cheat grass and invasive oat fires burn much different than a native prairie mix. With gramma grass and Forbes and sedges

We inadvertently introduced them and now are dealing with the effects.


The La Ni?a etc is cyclical but we are also getting stronger cycles recently vs historical readings. I am wondering why they only go back to the 50?s in their data instead of the beginning of recorded weather.

If climate change was not real than the army corp of engineers would not have protocols in place and current active projects that I have been in meetings for to reduce the effects of sea level rise and change in weather patterns.
They are Currently working on making sure major southern coastal cities have plans to move citizens farther inland as well as deal with unrest that it will cause

[Aloha_Shooter]

I was with you until these sentences:


If climate change was not real than the army corp of engineers would not have protocols in place and current active projects that I have been in meetings for to reduce the effects of sea level rise and change in weather patterns.
They are Currently working on making sure major southern coastal cities have plans to move citizens farther inland as well as deal with unrest that it will cause

The Army Corps of Engineers (as with many government agencies) has had a lot of projects and protocols that were not supported by science or even need (other than political or financial). The existence of their projects or protocols is NOT evidence of physical causes. Environmental change is not the same thing as climate change although it can be linked.

IF global warming really does cause the sea level to rise, it will do so at a fairly slow pace. The easiest way to get citizens to move further inland is to stop providing flood and storm insurance on an incremental level. This reverse incentive worked rather well after Hurricane Andrew. It didn't cost the citizens a dime (rather the opposite) but of course is not favored by bureaucrats because it doesn't add to their budgets or powerbase.

[BushMasterBoy]

My worry of climate change is the acidification of the ocean. This biosphere we live on is actually very delicate. The ocean produces most of the oxygen through photosynthesis by plankton. An increase in carbon dioxide levels will produce carbonic acid and a decrease in the oceans ability to sustain oxygen producing organisms. Only offset I can think of is to plant trees. Another way would be to produce biodiesel growing lipid bearing algae in bioreactors.
As far as the Marshall fire being blamed on global warming, it is a bit of a stretch.

[ManOnTarget]

Only offset I can think of is to plant trees.

This makes sense...... You just have to ensure that where you plant those trees, there will in perpetuity always then be trees. If those trees burn then it is a wash in the carbon cycle. If those trees die and turn into soil organic matter that gets respired back into the atmosphere, its a wash. I guess you could plant the trees, chop them down and burry them in an anoxic lake where their carbon uptake will never be undone. Additionality is a real bitch with this one. When you get down to it, the biosphere is only a reservoir for carbon and unless you increase that reservoir and keep it increased forever it doesn’t really act as a sink.

If you sell carbon credits to plant a forest and then that forest dies or burns, all the carbon that it up took just goes back to the atmosphere.

There are parts of the ocean system where your photosynthetic plankton will fall into the deep ocean (carbon reservoir of roughly 1e5 years). There are interesting proposals to fertilize those areas and sink carbon to the deep ocean that way. Though the carbon cost of deployment is also often thought of as being greater than the sink....

[BushMasterBoy]

I was just thinking of all the old Colorado mining areas that are denuded of trees. They cut down all the trees to build and fuel the mines. Some places are still covered in old stumps. Reforestation is the key to building a watershed. And it has to be managed by fire roads, permit logging, surveys, etc. It is a lot of work!

[arbol]

I regularly hike in past Colorado wildfire areas, in the mountains, some approaching 20 years old, and they have yet to recover.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayman_Fire

Nor should they. This is nature.

[GeorgeandSugar]

My worry of climate change is the acidification of the ocean. This biosphere we live on is actually very delicate. The ocean produces most of the oxygen through photosynthesis by plankton. An increase in carbon dioxide levels will produce carbonic acid and a decrease in the oceans ability to sustain oxygen producing organisms. Only offset I can think of is to plant trees. Another way would be to produce biodiesel growing lipid bearing algae in bioreactors.
As far as the Marshall fire being blamed on global warming, it is a bit of a stretch.

FYI. You can search this website for articles on acidification. https://wattsupwiththat.com

?Alkalinity: By definition, a water-based solution with a pH of 7 is neutral. Above 7 is alkaline, below 7 is acidic. Unfortunately, some scientists have stated that lowering the pH of a solution is acidifying it, even if the pH remains above 7, which is effect reducing the alkalinity, not increasing the acidity. To TWTW, the use of the ?scientist?s? definition would mean that lowering the pH of drain cleaner (14) to that of bleach (13) is acidification. Yet both are highly alkaline and corrosive, and clearly unfit for consumption.

Writing for the CO2 Coalition, Jim Steele et al. have produced a paper addressing the misleading term ocean acidification, which is an example of political rhetoric. As Steele writes:

?Ocean ?acidification? from carbon dioxide emissions would require a virtually impossible ten-fold decrease in the alkalinity of surface waters, so using that term is misleading. Even if atmospheric CO2 concentrations triple from today?s four percent of one percent, which would take about 600 years, today?s surface pH of 8.2 would plateau at 7.8, still well above neutral 7.

?In fact, ocean health is improved rather than damaged by additional CO2, because it is a phytoplankton food that stimulates food webs. Converted CO2 allows phytoplankton such as algae, bacteria, and seaweed to feed the rest of the open ocean food web. As carbon moves through this food web, much of it sinks or is transported away from the surface. This ?biological pump? maintains a high surface pH and allows the ocean to store 50 times more CO2 than the atmosphere. Digestion of carbon at lower depths maintains the lower pH in the deeper ocean. Carbon is then stored for up to millennia.

?Upwelling recycles carbon and nutrients from deep ocean waters to sunlit surface waters. Upwelling injects far more ancient CO2 into the surface than diffuses there from atmospheric CO2. Upwelling at first lowers surface pH, but then stimulates photosynthesis, which raises surface pH. It is a necessary process to generate bursts of life that sustain ocean food webs.

?When CO2 enters ocean water, it creates a bicarbonate ion plus a hydrogen ion, resulting in a slight decrease in pH. But photosynthesis requires CO2. So marine organisms convert bicarbonate and hydrogen ions into usable CO, and pH rises again. Contrary to popular claims that rising CO2 leads to shell disintegration, slightly lower pH does not stop marine organisms from using carbonate ions in building their shells.?

As with the greenhouse effect, political rhetoric has changed an important physical process, needed for diverse life on the planet, to something that is to be feared. Ignored in the political rhetoric is that photosynthesis, critical for life, consumes CO2, thereby raises pH.?


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[GeorgeandSugar]

Good article. No real surprise on root causes. Surprised it had not happened earlier. Tragic. Hopefully a wake-up call to our government officials.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/01/06/the-colorado-wildfire-and-global-warming-is-there-a-connection/


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Here is more on the topic. There is always more than what the media will report. Investigative reporting or the desire to dig into events like this would be a lot more helpful in our understanding and perhaps encourage people to be proactive to protect their property or better yet our wild land fire management officials.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/01/02/colorados-marshall-fire-has-funding-needs-corrupted-climate-science/

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/01/02/3-2-1-claim-colorado-wildfires-because-climate-change/


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[BushMasterBoy]

Unless a giant volcano explodes, then all bets are off. Italy just launched a satellite to help monitor the planet. Palm Beach county is making requirements for homeowners to raise buildings above rising sea levels. Some streets in Miami are flooding, that never flooded before. I have seen the dead coral reefs caused by local pollution.
Reading about ocean changes and actually diving and seeing for your self are two different things.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COSMO-SkyMed

[BPTactical]

Does this mean Ann Margaret isn't coming?

[Great-Kazoo]

Does this mean Ann Margaret isn't coming?

Sadly, no

89341

[BPTactical]

Sadly, no

89341


https://c.tenor.com/SUtmK-kI2wgAAAAC/waynes-world.gif