Biden is going to abandon more Americans

[hollohas]

Left our people in Kabul.

Now he's going to leave them in Ukraine.

This guy is a clown.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220124/65de3cdf05488ca7f50c506f9fca3a95.jpg

[MrPrena]

I think citizen getting out of Ukraine warning is at least 2 weeks late.

[Bailey Guns]

Not defending the Biden administration by any means. But if you're an American citizen and you're still in Ukraine, well...

And I understand there are some with valid reasons for staying. Family and such, maybe. But if you're just working or visiting, maybe you should leave before you can't? You know...take responsibility for your own safety instead of relying on the government. Especially this government.

[hollohas]

Not defending the Biden administration by any means. But if you're an American citizen and you're still in Ukraine, well...

And I understand there are some with valid reasons for staying. Family and such, maybe. But if you're just working or visiting, maybe you should leave before you can't? You know...take responsibility for your own safety instead of relying on the government. Especially this government.If it wasn't for the disaster in Kabul, I'd agree with you. This admin has proven it will screw people. There were Americans who wanted to get out, including Fed employees. There were private groups with planes on the ground ready to get them out but some of those planes weren't allowed to take passengers, etc. etc. The state department f'ed it ALL up. And then droned a family for good measure.

I have no doubt there are some Americans who want to leave Ukraine but haven't been able to yet for reasons outside their control. Including those working for the Feds. Those are the people who need their country to help them. But instead of helping, their country just said "good luck on your own". I just can't believe they said that part out loud.

[hollohas]

The State Dept didn't even authorize the departure of gov employees from Ukraine until 4 hours ago. And they're already saying they won't be in the position to evacuate citizens.

This admin sure does get in front of problems before they get worse, don't they.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220124/6042eef955048acfd1b8091958e34d58.jpg

[DDT951]

Not defending the Biden administration by any means. But if you're an American citizen and you're still in Ukraine, well...

And I understand there are some with valid reasons for staying. Family and such, maybe. But if you're just working or visiting, maybe you should leave before you can't? You know...take responsibility for your own safety instead of relying on the government. Especially this government.

Agree. Trains run often. One can leave to other European countries within hours.

I would be getting out via train and then finding a flight from stable country.

[sroz]

Not defending the Biden administration by any means. But if you're an American citizen and you're still in Ukraine, well...

And I understand there are some with valid reasons for staying. Family and such, maybe. But if you're just working or visiting, maybe you should leave before you can't? You know...take responsibility for your own safety instead of relying on the government. Especially this government.

My thoughts exactly

[Martinjmpr]

If the government sent them there (embassy, state dept employees, other federal employees or contractors, etc) then certainly the government has an obligation to get those people out.

But for those the government DIDN'T send, once the State Dept issues an order that they should leave, I don't see that the US should have an obligation to get people out who had the ability to get themselves out but failed to do so.

To put it another way, if someone deliberately ignores the advice to get out, and then finds himself in trouble, is the government obligated to put someone else at risk (i.e. the "rescue team") to extract the person who shouldn't have been there in the first place?

[earplug]

Why is anyone concerned about it?
Russian and the Ukraine have moved their border many times in the past. Somebody is messing with the pipeline between Russian and Europe. 40% of Europe's natural gas is supplied by Russian gas.
I think the bozo that put NATO troops next to Russia might need a better education. If the USA has to supply Europe with NG it will come from your pocket

[clodhopper]

Why is anyone concerned about it?

Unfortunately at this point, we still have a treaty with them for protection from Russia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

[hollohas]

I hope we stay out of it.

But, reports this morning are that Biden is working up to send 50,000 troops to sit in nearby Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. Not good...

[MrPrena]

If this shit fails, many countries will get them self nuclear.
There are many many countries which are about 2.5 month away from getting one themselves. Allies and enemies.

[eddiememphis]

If this shit fails, many countries will get them self nuclear.
There are many many countries which are about 2.5 month away from getting one themselves. Allies and enemies.

Which ones?

[Eric P]

Unfortunately at this point, we still have a treaty with them for protection from Russia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

Is the treaty even valid if they have not funded thier military to the levels specified in the treaty? So tired of wasting US treasure & blood for others that don't fight for themselves.

[MrPrena]

Which ones?

Many countries probably WILL THINK that it is better to go nuclear than get invaded. It is all depends on how this rolls.

Just off of my head....
East European and 1 or 2 former soviets.
Some eastern Asian countries near China and North Korea.

Countries which are more established financially and well diversified.
Countries which already has many nuclear power plants, and has enough reactor grade isotopes.

I read some articles that Ukrainian are regretting giving up nuclear.


India, Pakistan, Israel is one group to go nuclear.
Libya , Kazakhstan, Ukraine,Belarus, etc is one who went opposite.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ukrainian+regretting.giving.up+nuclear&client=ms-android-boost-us-revc&prmd=nivx&sxsrf=AOaemvJGl4a70ycD4Lql01Z1_mp0oixCkw:164306842 2178&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwisx5Ttysv1AhXxFjQIHcIsD2EQ_AUIFSgA&biw=360&bih=667&dpr=3

[DDT951]

Many countries probably WILL THINK that it is better to go nuclear than get invaded. It is all depends on how this rolls.

Just off of my head....
East European and 1 or 2 former soviets.
Some eastern Asian countries near China and North Korea.

Countries which are more established financially and well diversified.
Countries which already has many nuclear power plants, and has enough reactor grade isotopes.

I read some articles that Ukrainian are regretting giving up nuclear.


India, Pakistan, Israel is one group to go nuclear.
Libya , Kazakhstan, Ukraine,Belarus, etc is one who went opposite.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ukrainian+regretting.giving.up+nuclear&client=ms-android-boost-us-revc&prmd=nivx&sxsrf=AOaemvJGl4a70ycD4Lql01Z1_mp0oixCkw:164306842 2178&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwisx5Ttysv1AhXxFjQIHcIsD2EQ_AUIFSgA&biw=360&bih=667&dpr=3

I suspect Ukraine wishes right now they would have kept those nukes.

Putin wouldn't be screwing with them if he knew they were equals.

And tactical/strategic nukes are a deterrent from an invasion like this [unless a country can neutralize launches].

[clodhopper]

I suspect Ukraine wishes right now they would have kept those nukes.

Putin wouldn't be screwing with them if he knew they were equals.

And tactical/strategic nukes are a deterrent from an invasion like this [unless a country can neutralize launches].

Having nukes is one thing. Projecting the appearance that you would actually use them is another. Gotta make people think you either have big nutz or are nutz, otherwise it is not a deterrent.

[BushMasterBoy]

Supposedly there was some concern of some missing. SADM.

[Martinjmpr]

Thing about nukes is they're not like conventional bombs or missiles that can more or less sit on a shelf or in a bunker for decades and still work.

Nukes require periodic maintenance or they won't fission. The neutron generator (initiator) that provides the burst of neutrons to start the chain reaction has a relatively short half-life and needs to be changed out regularly. If they aren't, then what you have is not a nuclear weapon but a big, "dirty" conventional bomb.

(This is also the reason I don't get too worked up over the various "lost" nukes out there. Yes, we've lost a few, and so have the Soviets. But at this point, they're no longer nuclear weapons that can explode in a big mushroom cloud, they're just chunks of extremely poisonous metal buried deep in the ground. Even if they were to explode it would just create a contaminated zone a few thousand feet wide. Ditto for the "weapons stolen from the USSR before it collapsed" scenario. Sure, a terrorist could get his hands on some Plutonium but even if the sensitive triggering mechanism for the conventional explosive somehow survived, without that neutron generator it's just a big "dirty" bomb.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modulated_neutron_initiator

I suppose a crude nuke could be an effective "last ditch" deterrent (assuming that the country that had them would actually be willing to use it) but ultimately the cost and complexity of nuclear weapons means that only the wealthiest and most technologically advanced countries can field them.

[Martinjmpr]

Of course, the bigger question is: Why is it the USA's responsibility to deter or thwart a Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[00tec]

Of course, the bigger question is: Why is it the USA's responsibility to deter or thwart a Russian invasion of Ukraine?

Treaty

[MrPrena]

Of course, the bigger question is: Why is it the USA's responsibility to deter or thwart a Russian invasion of Ukraine?


Treaty

Exactly. If we don't want to help them, don't encourag these countries to give up on nukes.

Ukraine had 3rd most after ussr breakup?

Again, if we don't get into these treaties and trade partnerships at this date ,China will scoop up all the trade partnership and treaties.
No help? No Treaty? No trade partnership? No military backing?
Sure.... China and Russia is more than happy to take our spot.

Memorandum on Security Assurances in connection with the Republic of Belarus'/Republic of Kazakhstan's/Ukraine's accession to the?Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons

[clodhopper]

There is no real reason that the US needs to be the first to rush in and police the world. In this case we shouldnt have penned the treaty with Ukraine.... stupid on our part. The treaty should have been with Nato, not just the US. Despite the treaty, Nato should the be one calling the shots and we just provide our portion of the effort. I stand by the idea that most of these situations should be handled by the United Nations as a coalition. It would be an absolute sh1tshow as the UN has always had the US to do the dirty work. But just because they would be less competent is any reason why we should be expected to rush in and bear the brunt of the problem.

[eddiememphis]

Many countries probably WILL THINK that it is better to go nuclear than get invaded. It is all depends on how this rolls.

Just off of my head....
East European and 1 or 2 former soviets.
Some eastern Asian countries near China and North Korea.

Countries which are more established financially and well diversified.
Countries which already has many nuclear power plants, and has enough reactor grade isotopes.

I read some articles that Ukrainian are regretting giving up nuclear.


India, Pakistan, Israel is one group to go nuclear.
Libya , Kazakhstan, Ukraine,Belarus, etc is one who went opposite.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ukrainian+regretting.giving.up+nuclear&client=ms-android-boost-us-revc&prmd=nivx&sxsrf=AOaemvJGl4a70ycD4Lql01Z1_mp0oixCkw:164306842 2178&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwisx5Ttysv1AhXxFjQIHcIsD2EQ_AUIFSgA&biw=360&bih=667&dpr=3

You are saying by June, Libya and the other 3 will have nuclear weapons?

[MrPrena]

No. Those 3 went opposite and gave up nuclear program.
Libya gave up during W admin.


(I am on mobile and just added link to wiki)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libya_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

[hollohas]

Ukraine must really hate Biden by now. Obama/Biden denied military aid back in 2014 when Russia was arming Ukrainian separatists. Obama/Biden sent blankets and food. Back then Ukrainian president Poroshenko argued with the Obama admin that ?one cannot win a war with blankets.?

And now Russia is taking advantage of another weak president. (The weakest we've seen IMO). Biden's weakness has been a main catalyst for this.

I don't think Ukraine is counting on that treaty too much...

[BushMasterBoy]

Containerize the fissile materials in inert gas and you can store it a long time. If the core of the weapons grade materials oxidizes it has to be smelted to purity and remanufactured.



Interesting link below on US nuclear weapons.

https://www.acq.osd.mil/ncbdp/nm//NMHB2020rev/chapters/chapter4.html

[eddiememphis]

If this shit fails, many countries will get them self nuclear.
There are many many countries which are about 2.5 month away from getting one themselves. Allies and enemies.

I don't think you understand my question.

You said there are many countries that are 2.5 months away from getting nukes.

I asked which countries.

You posted wikipedia links, without answering.

So let me ask again. What countries will have nuclear weapons by June of 2022 that do not already have them?

I am not being a dick, (well, kind of) but when you assert something like that you should be able to answer clearly.

[MrPrena]

I don't think you understand my question.

You said there are many countries that are 2.5 months away from getting nukes.

I asked which countries.

You posted wikipedia links, without answering.

So let me ask again. What countries will have nuclear weapons by June of 2022 that do not already have them?

I am not being a dick, (well, kind of) but when you assert something like that you should be able to answer clearly.

You asked me 3 countries incl Libya. So I answered it thst they went opposite as I stated before.
I guess you did not read previous post to the one quoted.
I said potentially have. NOT WILL HAVE.

I could have been more clear. I am not a king of those countries, cannot 100% tell you they will or not. However they will think of going. If they decide to, they can potentially go within 2.5 mo.


REQUIEMENTS ARE.... (AGAIN)



Quote Originally Posted by MrPrena View Post
Many countries probably WILL THINK that it is better to go nuclear than get invaded. It is all depends on how this rolls.

Just off of my head....
East European and 1 or 2 former soviets.
Some eastern Asian countries near China and North Korea.

Countries which are more established financially and well diversified.
Countries which already has many nuclear power plants, and has enough reactor grade isotopes.

[FoxtArt]

There is no real reason that the US needs to be the first to rush in and police the world. In this case we shouldnt have penned the treaty with Ukraine.... stupid on our part. The treaty should have been with Nato, not just the US. Despite the treaty, Nato should the be one calling the shots and we just provide our portion of the effort. I stand by the idea that most of these situations should be handled by the United Nations as a coalition. It would be an absolute sh1tshow as the UN has always had the US to do the dirty work. But just because they would be less competent is any reason why we should be expected to rush in and bear the brunt of the problem.

The League of Nations did such a great job in policing the world and preventing another World War.

Perhaps massive groups of politicians is bound to be as inept as a 96 year old transgender's prick.

[Aloha_Shooter]

He was a part of the administration that left Americans hanging in Libya, fighting for their lives for hours while the Situation Room watched it on video. Did you really expect anything less (or more)? THIS is a high crime and misdemeanor as meant by the Founding Fathers.

[Joe_K]

8926789268
89269

We?ve been here before...and it is NOTlooking good.

[BushMasterBoy]

Scenario. Just my opinion! Geopolitical agriculture reason Russia wants Ukraine.

Russia takes Ukraine.

World sanctions Russia with embargo.

Russia still gets its people fed easily due to acquisition of Ukraine wheat.

Since INF Treaty is no longer valid, Russia installs SRBM's to threaten NATO.


89273

[hollohas]

What's going on here? For the last week. The Russia rhetoric coming from the WH has hit fever pitch. Biden's giving interviews saying a Russian invasion is imminent and it will be bloody. Talking heads are on the news saying an invasion WILL happen this week. Officials are telling Americans they now only have 24hrs to get out safely. That there are 150k Russian troops on 3 sides of Ukraine. The national security advisor was on CNN yesterday saying that major military action by Russia is going to happen any day, before the end of the week. They are spreading code red, war is imminent fear-mongeting.

Meanwhile, the President of Ukraine says it's not that bad. That Biden needs come visit Ukraine to stop the spread of fear and panic. Ukraine has publicly asked for the US to share ANY evidence we have to prove an invasion is imminent because they don't see that over there. Ukraine says this Russian build up is just typical Russian flexing. No big deal.

Sure seems like the US wants war. WTF is this WH Admin doing?

[Aloha_Shooter]

Sure seems like the US wants war. WTF is this WH Admin doing?

The same thing tyrannies have done for ages on end: distracting the populace from domestic issues (inflation, vax & mask protests, CRT, etc.) with troubles abroad.

What's really funny is that this is the crowd that 1) crowed about a "reset" with Russia and Putin in 2009, 2) paid Russians to plant material that could be used in the Steele dossier, 3) pushed a non-existent "Trump-Russia collusion" hoax for 5 years, and apparently spied on the sitting POTUS while he was in office but we should trust they are protecting American interests from Putin.

[Sawin]

My company employs developers in both of those countries and we're kinda anxious to see what happens too... building all kinds of contingency plans for mission critical teammates.... it's silliness.

[hollohas]

Do you think the WH has made a much bigger deal out of this than it actually is in order to fabricate a win for the Admin?

In other words, when Russia doesn't invade (because they never intended to) then the WH will say their sanctions and diplomacy saved the day... hooray for Biden?

[kidicarus13]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/markets-rise-report-partial-russian-pullback-ukraine-border-2022-02-15/

"We've always said the troops will return to their bases after the exercises are over. This is the case this time as well," Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said.

He accused the United States of fueling the crisis by warning repeatedly of an impending invasion, to the point where Peskov said President Vladimir Putin had made jokes about it.

"He asks (us) to find out if the exact time, to the hour, of the start of the war has been published. It's impossible to be understanding of this manic information madness," Peskov told reporters.

[doodguybro]

Pretty quiet now after you were all riding Putin's nuts for a week straight

[Sawin]

Pretty quiet now after you were all riding Putin's nuts for a week straight

What? Troll.