View Full Version : Alleged imminent ATF raid on private owners tommorow.
Hate this guy, but if true? Maybe some boating accidents tonight for their FRT15 triggers.
https://youtu.be/RRkJtcz9ipg
Gotta love confiscation when stuff is still pending in court.
Bailey Guns
01-26-2022, 23:14
I think it's great how federal law enforcement agencies can now write the law and enforce the law. We could eliminate an entire branch of government and save a bundle by not having to have a legislative branch.
Call me skeptical but a video that starts with "buy my shit" and is based on "an alleged leaked email" and "we are filming in a nondescript location" etc. etc. etc.
It has all the hallmarks of legitimacy, just like a guy from Nigeria asking if you accept money orders for your car for sale on craigslist.
If it acts like a troll, talks like a troll, and wants clicks like a troll, don't accept it's money order and mail $ back to it.
buffalobo
01-27-2022, 04:59
And of course "the person that sent it to me asked me not to share the actual email"
battlemidget
01-27-2022, 06:53
Mechanically, those triggers have an interesting design. Here’s a video by the manufacturer that has a neat computer animation that begins at 2:30
https://vimeo.com/486478480?embedded=true&source=vimeo_logo&owner=126802150
EDIT- video didn’t post, here’s the link
https://vimeo.com/486478480?embedded=true&source=vimeo_logo&owner=126802150
Call me skeptical but a video that starts with "buy my shit" and is based on "an alleged leaked email" and "we are filming in a nondescript location" etc. etc. etc.
It has all the hallmarks of legitimacy, just like a guy from Nigeria asking if you accept money orders for your car for sale on craigslist.
If it acts like a troll, talks like a troll, and wants clicks like a troll, don't accept it's money order and mail $ back to it.
I prefaced this with I don't like the guy, he's a shill, but he is fairly rabid about these things and not as fake on them. Did someone feed him bs ? Sure. We had the fake news on a F1 company being raided.
But color me not shocked at all if what we see is a few FFL's that tried carrying them raided or a few people that were buying a lot and reselling. They don't have the resources yet I dont think to hit 10's of thousands of individual people.
TEAMRICO
01-27-2022, 11:06
Why are they now Defendants??
Defendants in what?
hollohas
01-27-2022, 11:23
I've REALLY wanted one of these and almost bit on buying one on a few occasions. But, I figured they would be confiscated at some point. I don't want to be on that list.
Wasn't overly familiar with them but looked them up.
Yeah...
A classic case of complete narcissistic idiots that think "loopholes" exist, with no legal experience, that will most likely end in broadening the definition of a machine gun and close the door on all sorts of other trigger packages.
Aka, "fucktards".
Wasn't overly familiar with them but looked them up.
Yeah...
A classic case of complete narcissistic idiots that think "loopholes" exist, with no legal experience, that will most likely end in broadening the definition of a machine gun and close the door on all sorts of other trigger packages.
Aka, "fucktards".
They went by the definition provided and made a part. The ATF does not have the authority to make a new definition.
Grant H.
01-27-2022, 12:54
This was destined to go bad from the beginning...
The surprising thing here is that it's taken this long for the ATF to go this route...
Grant H.
01-27-2022, 12:58
They went by the definition provided and made a part. The ATF does not have the authority to make a new definition.
That definition was rendered null and void by Trump...
Grant H.
01-27-2022, 13:11
For those who forgot the discussion from last year: Linky linky... (https://www.ar-15.co/threads/182626-Rare-Breed-Forced-Reset-Trigger)
That definition was rendered null and void by Trump...
And judges have disagreed that a bump stock is a machine gun as well, because the definition doesn't fit. Cases have been tossed
Edit: Not worth it, but it's a shame so many that should be allies simply are not because they are happy to cling to what they can while slowly being chipped away.
Sounds like the feds picked up a fairly popular YouTuber today for conspiring and delivering AutoKeyCards.
Bailey Guns
01-27-2022, 16:23
Wasn't overly familiar with them but looked them up.
Yeah...
A classic case of complete narcissistic idiots that think "loopholes" exist, with no legal experience, that will most likely end in broadening the definition of a machine gun and close the door on all sorts of other trigger packages.
Aka, "fucktards".
What part of their design relies on a "loophole"? It fires one round when the trigger's pulled. It fires one round when the trigger is pulled again. It WILL NOT fire more than one round with one pull of the trigger. Period. The only mechanical assist is in the reset. There's a spring that helps to push the trigger forward to reset the firing mechanism so it can be fired again by ANOTHER pull of the trigger.
And Rare Breed Triggers hired lawyers to research this and one guy on the team was an ATF agent for many years. They researched this plenty. That's why they're so confident in their position that they ignored the ATF's demand that they stop production and took the ATF to court.
The only "fucktards" in this equation are those that think this design = a machine gun...regardless of how much legal experience they have. Because there's no way a rational person could look at the design of the trigger, watch it function, and then come to the conclusion that it provides for more than a single round being fired with a single pull of the trigger.
Its FuddArt, don't waste your time.
Story being ran and covered by GOA now.
KevDen2005
01-27-2022, 17:00
Every gun channel in the world now trying to scare everyone into liking, commenting, subscribing, and ringing that notification bell plus use their coupon codes
^this
...... and don't forget to like, subscribe, and comment. Make sure you use my link for items below.
If you like to buy this scope, please use a coupon code "Iamheretomakemoney" for 5% off.
eddiememphis
01-27-2022, 19:34
Its FuddArt, don't waste your time.
Story being ran and covered by GOA now.
That is where the meatball got it to begin with.
Scanker19
01-27-2022, 20:09
Sounds like the feds picked up a fairly popular YouTuber today for conspiring and delivering AutoKeyCards.
Is it demolition ranch? I hate that guy. Hahaha
Is it demolition ranch? I hate that guy. Hahaha
CRS firearms. A bit cooky, wears hat backwards, points at things with a knife.
KevDen2005
01-27-2022, 21:15
Is it demolition ranch? I hate that guy. Hahaha
I'd definitely be okay with that. That guy can't get AIDS fast enough
Saw that guy's page before. His family runs reselling+pawn+gun type of stores.
https://www.google.com/search?q=crs+firearms+arrested&oq=crs+fire&aqs=chrome.2.0i131i433i512j69i57j0i3l2j0i131i433i5 12l4j0i512.2897j0j7&client=ms-android-boost-us-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
KevDen2005
01-28-2022, 10:26
CRS firearms. A bit cooky, wears hat backwards, points at things with a knife.
If irritating gun channels were getting arrested, this guy would be pretty high on the list for me as well.
If irritating gun channels were getting arrested, this guy would be pretty high on the list for me as well.
No disagreement there
People mistake my position as one that I disagree with the product.
Courts do not operate on written law. Thus, loopholes do not exist, because loopholes only exist in written law. Someone proclaiming "but it's not technically illegal" has not seen how the system operates.
Any litigation attorney / paralegal will mostly tell you the same:
Courts operate merely on the whim of their judges, justified in the impression of some semblance of procedure.
So when someone makes a business card that can be broken down to make lightning links, or someone makes a trigger that will make a gun go BRRRRRRRRRT, sure, they aren't technically illegal under plain text doctrine.
But judges don't give a shit. Any position they want to take, they can justify, so is the state of our courts. Things like this operate more about the intent of the law than any language of the law, and that's what makes this get sideways. Anyone arguing "PFFFT IT ISN"T ILLEGAL" - well, neither were Atkins accelerators, or slide fires, or rubber bands for f's sake.
When ftards make a business and think "it's not technically illegal" and make a device that goes BRRRRRRRRT, what happens is then a judge will absolutely come down on that because they only care about the intent of the regulations/laws. If it sounds like it is fully automatic, they will treat it like it is, regardless of what loophole the given idiot thinks is a monopoly card. And devices like this, so openly advocating "they are legal" with all sorts of BRRRRRT video is begging the ATF to address it post-haste.
The end result, is then the decisions that get handed down also burn everybody in proximity. Things like binary triggers, etc., stuff that was not questionable or marginal, didn't have narcissists launching fireworks at the ATF for attention, they often then get axed too.
It is a bigger picture. When companies don't try to fly below the radar (like Binaries, etc.) and they advertise how much their stuff makes it fully-automatic "but it technically isn't so we can sell it to anyone!", uh, what country have you guys been living in where that business plan has any semblance of intelligence?
And it's not like I'm wrong, because yeah, this is after the fact?
Bailey Guns
01-28-2022, 13:23
That's all fine and dandy. But no court or judge has ordered the ATF to, 1) find these items are machineguns and, 2) ordered the ATF to start confiscating property of US citizens without due process.
The ATF is acting unilaterally as far as anyone can tell. I don't care how you try to justify their behavior, it simply isn't in accordance with US law.
Great-Kazoo
01-28-2022, 13:58
That's all fine and dandy. But no court or judge has ordered the ATF to, 1) find these items are machineguns and, 2) ordered the ATF to start confiscating property of US citizens without due process.
The ATF is acting unilaterally as far as anyone can tell. I don't care how you try to justify their behavior, it simply isn't in accordance with US law.
Correct. There is no law, the atf can fall back on regarding their abuse .
Grant H.
01-28-2022, 14:07
The ATF is acting unilaterally as far as anyone can tell. I don't care how you try to justify their behavior, it simply isn't in accordance with US law.
I call BS...
They aren't going down this path without the support and backing of Uncle Joey and the DOJ.
Is it legal, by the definition of the law? Nope, but much like your signature, if you don't want the ATF to make an example out of you, don't make a device that imitates FA and flaunt it...
RDIAS
Lightning Links
Bump stocks
Blah blah blah...
NONE of those fit the definition of a Firearm, and yet they are highly controlled or illegal as a "machine gun"... The courts have never once taken umbrage with that stance... Why would they start with this latest example?
Yet again, not justifying their behavior.
There's a lot of guys serving prison sentences constantly yelling about how their imprisonment is not in accordance with US law and/or they didn't break the law.
And many of them are not wrong.
I am, I suppose, much more pragmatic than idealistic. I'd love it to be the way you guys suggest, but it simply isn't.
It shouldn't be, but it is.
Things like the ATF are like a freakin' 500 pound, hundred-year old, pissed off, shit covered gorilla living a bedroom. While it would be awesome if it could become civilized and trained, and eat at the dinner table, who are we kidding? You don't try to dress it up in yoga pants and give it a fork, you just keep far away and hope it eventually croaks.
That's all fine and dandy. But no court or judge has ordered the ATF to, 1) find these items are machineguns and, 2) ordered the ATF to start confiscating property of US citizens without due process.
The ATF is acting unilaterally as far as anyone can tell. I don't care how you try to justify their behavior, it simply isn't in accordance with US law.
I call BS...
They aren't going down this path without the support and backing of Uncle Joey and the DOJ.
Is it legal, by the definition of the law? Nope, but much like your signature, if you don't want the ATF to make an example out of you, don't make a device that imitates FA and flaunt it...
RDIAS
Lightning Links
Bump stocks
Blah blah blah...
NONE of those fit the definition of a Firearm, and yet they are highly controlled or illegal as a "machine gun"... The courts have never once taken umbrage with that stance... Why would they start with this latest example?
Gotta agree on both highlighted part.
ATF was starting to do this on their own around last year of Trump admin. That would most likely without a backing of doj at that time.
Now, it is most likely that they have a backing of doj and wh.
Grant H.
01-28-2022, 15:44
Gotta agree on both highlighted part.
ATF was starting to do this on their own around last year of Trump admin. That would most likely without a backing of doj at that time.
Now, it is most likely that they have a backing of doj and wh.
The ATF was acting at the direction of Trump and his DOJ when they went after the Bump stocks...
Bailey Guns
01-28-2022, 16:38
The ATF is acting unilaterally as far as anyone can tell.
I call BS...
That's BS? OK. Show me it's BS. Prove to me the WH or DOJ is behind this.
DOJ maybe...but if so they sure are being quiet about it. Rare Breed stood up to the ATF on specific, valid, legal grounds. And, much like FoxtArt said, so far the courts could give a shit about legal. Personally, I think that's what's behind this. The peasants dared to speak out and challenge the authority of the ATF. An organization that doesn't even have a director and hasn't had one for some time. And now the ATF is gonna pound their asses into the dirt because they know they can, legally and justifiably or not. They know they don't need anyone's permission...especially under this administration.
Frankly I think the WH is grateful for this distraction. They've made such a cluster fuck of everything they've touched: they've been shown to be illegally transporting illegal aliens around the country and lying about it to the point even those on their side are starting to blow the whistle, they're on the brink of war with Putin, inflation is running rampant, the middle class is being priced out of a sustainable lifestyle, there's revolt in their own party...and on and on and on. Yeah..."Let the ATF ruin a few lives and give us a little breathing room" is probably what the WH is thinking right now.
Bailey Guns
01-28-2022, 16:44
The ATF was acting at the direction of Trump and his DOJ when they went after the Bump stocks...
The process was not the same. Under Trump they at least gave the illusion of due process. They had hearings, comment periods, wrote a regulation, etc. Then they did what they wanted anyway.
That isn't happening here. They've flat out said these devices meet the definition of "machine gun" - which is a lie, lied about how they operate in court by saying they fire more than one round with a single trigger pull, and sent out a directive to start confiscating property. Apples and oranges.
The result might be the same and I suppose that's all that matters in the end. But the processes for each aren't comparable.
And they gave purchasers an opportunity to destroy or turnover the device with no harm except money flushed.
And they gave purchasers an opportunity to destroy or turnover the device with no harm except money flushed.
All eight people that ever bought a slide fire thanked them for being so kind.
[mlp]
All eight people that ever bought a slide fire thanked them for being so kind.
[mlp]
Better than a search warrant and the BS court proceedings ruining your life over a trigger the tyrants don't like.
The F in ATF should not even exist. US government and sub divisions have no right to restrict a constitutionally protected right.
Call me skeptical but a video that starts with "buy my shit" and is based on "an alleged leaked email" and "we are filming in a nondescript location" etc. etc. etc.
It has all the hallmarks of legitimacy, just like a guy from Nigeria asking if you accept money orders for your car for sale on craigslist.
If it acts like a troll, talks like a troll, and wants clicks like a troll, don't accept it's money order and mail $ back to it.
He's been a reliable source in the past. That he does the standard "subscribe to my channel" and "check out my sponsor" schtick that literally every other Youtuber does is hardly a disqualifying factor.
Zundfolge
02-03-2022, 17:05
This guy makes videos so he can sell things, you can't trust him!
This other guy makes videos as a hobby out of his basement, you can't trust him!
Well, case in point, anyone heard of any ATF door kicking on individual owners last week?
Yeah. I stand by the click bait banner. It maybe loosely based on something, or not, either way, it is not accurate.
Zundfolge
02-03-2022, 20:34
The F in ATF should not even exist. US government and sub divisions have no right to restrict a constitutionally protected right.
It wouldn't be a problem if we put ATF back under Treasury where it belongs (thanks Dubya ... you dumbass). It should only exist to process payment of Federal excise taxes on alcohol, tobacco and firearms. There should be zero law enforcement aspect to their work at all ... it should be an office of unarmed clerks and accountants and that's it.
Frankly I don't believe these excise taxes should exist at all either (along with 90% of taxes) but a world without any form of taxation is a fantasy world, so if there must be taxes I understand that you need to have an office you can mail payment to and a staff to manage those payments. But that's it.
It wouldn't be a problem if we put ATF back under Treasury where it belongs (thanks Dubya ... you dumbass). It should only exist to process payment of Federal excise taxes on alcohol, tobacco and firearms. There should be zero law enforcement aspect to their work at all ... it should be an office of unarmed clerks and accountants and that's it.
Frankly I don't believe these excise taxes should exist at all either (along with 90% of taxes) but a world without any form of taxation is a fantasy world, so if there must be taxes I understand that you need to have an office you can mail payment to and a staff to manage those payments. But that's it.
There should be zero excise(sin) taxes on those 3 items either. Zero reason to have those taxes if the agency vaporized.
This guy makes videos so he can sell things, you can't trust him!
This other guy makes videos as a hobby out of his basement, you can't trust him!
This is why I only trust Brian Stelter to give me the news.
So did anything happen or was it all tin foil bullshit?
So did anything happen or was it all tin foil bullshit?
My reading of it was essentially some guidance on doing this or that that went to all the field offices. From there it was a case of whether those agents were actually pursuing any cases and just had to check with their station chief first.... so maybe a big nothing burger there if individual offices arn't out pursuing it. Just a couple shops that had visits and C&D letters that I've seen/heard is the extent so far.
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