So what happens when your family is targeted in a Safe2Tell report?

[.455_Hunter]

UPFRONT- This is just a general question based on hearing these calls come across the scanner, nothing relating to my family.

So it's 7pm, your family has just finished dinner and you get a knock at the front door...

"This is Deputy Joe Friday from the Johnston County Sheriff's Department. We have received a Safe2Tell report about your son concerning potential school violence. Can I please come inside?"

How do these encounters usually proceed? What are your rights? Can you refuse entry? Can you tell them to pound sand? Do they need a warrant? Are allowed to tear your house apart looking for a "weapon"?

Susie Q overhearing and panicking about your son talking to his friend about going to the range this weekend doesn't seem like probable cause to have much more than a discussion with the parent(s) outside in the yard.

Just curious on your thoughts or experiences.

[FoxtArt]

My perspective.

In any circumstance, the wisest choice is probably to step outside and shut the door behind you. Start recording audio or video, and to the extent they ask YOU questions, politely ask e.g. "Am I legally obligated to answer your questions? Is my home or person being detained?".

Little harm in asking them questions. "Can you please explain the nature of the report?".

If ultimately, they think they have probable cause and/or a warrant, it is STILL the best course of action in any case. Virtually all evidence in any kind of action is circumstantial, and most of it is usually uttered by a suspect, friends, or their family members. There is nothing positive that you can say, or an officer can believe, that can ever be used to assist anyone in a court of law (literally it is hearsay) while all negative statements have a hearsay exemption (against interest) even if taken entirely out of context. So to guard against a B.S. charge from an overzealous prosecutor, and an innocent person getting crucified on out of context small talk, always STFU.

But, in the interest of public safety, do inquire about the nature and extent of the report so you dig into it yourself.

[BushMasterBoy]

Don't talk without a lawyer present is my opinion. Video below explains why.
I wouldn't even answer the door.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

[KevDen2005]

My perspective.

In any circumstance, the wisest choice is probably to step outside and shut the door behind you. Start recording audio or video, and to the extent they ask YOU questions, politely ask e.g. "Am I legally obligated to answer your questions? Is my home or person being detained?".

Little harm in asking them questions. "Can you please explain the nature of the report?".

If ultimately, they think they have probable cause and/or a warrant, it is STILL the best course of action in any case. Virtually all evidence in any kind of action is circumstantial, and most of it is usually uttered by a suspect, friends, or their family members. There is nothing positive that you can say, or an officer can believe, that can ever be used to assist anyone in a court of law (literally it is hearsay) while all negative statements have a hearsay exemption (against interest) even if taken entirely out of context. So to guard against a B.S. charge from an overzealous prosecutor, and an innocent person getting crucified on out of context small talk, always STFU.

But, in the interest of public safety, do inquire about the nature and extent of the report so you dig into it yourself.

Almost every Safe2Tell I've handled is about a child threatening suicide. 99 percent of them are nothing since some other kid probably overheard the kid being checked on. It's merely a welfare check and no you aren't required to let LE inside. That being said, it always astounds me how everyone on this board thinks that cops are just out to get them all the time. Man, a cop is following up on some stupid Safe2Tell, that he doesn't want to be involved with anyway and wishes the system was never made. Now, instead of getting to all the other other BS paperwork he's accumulated all shift he has to spend an ungodly amount of time convincing you why this public safety matter should be taken care of now. Just think of how many times an active shooter happens and someone yells, "The police were warned and did nothing." All those cops have command staffs that remember that too so this officer gets to spend his evening investigating other options, talking to detectives about getting a warrant, all because "he's out to get you." Or you could just go with him inside and talk to your potential active shooter kid that you didn't realize was about to shoot up a school because you never go into his room and find out if he needs to be placed on a mental health hold or not.

[MrPrena]

These reckless reporting shit had to stop without having a consequences. Or everyone will do anomyous SWATing of people they do not like.

Waste of time and tax $.

If someone is going to report something, they shoukd have enough evidences.

I mean I can report a dude who had 2 55gal drum and some electrical wire at his garage. Idiots watch too much movies.

[KevDen2005]

These reckless reporting shit had to stop without having a consequences. Or everyone will do anomyous SWATing or people they do not like.

Safe2Tell is anonymous

[MrPrena]

Safe2Tell is anonymous

That will make it an open season for punk and bitch to lie to authorities.
" that guy has 2- 55gal water drum, and his social media had some metal plumbing pipe and some wires!!!"

[.455_Hunter]

Almost every Safe2Tell I've handled is about a child threatening suicide. 99 percent of them are nothing since some other kid probably overheard the kid being checked on. It's merely a welfare check and no you aren't required to let LE inside. That being said, it always astounds me how everyone on this board thinks that cops are just out to get them all the time. Man, a cop is following up on some stupid Safe2Tell, that he doesn't want to be involved with anyway and wishes the system was never made. Now, instead of getting to all the other other BS paperwork he's accumulated all shift he has to spend an ungodly amount of time convincing you why this public safety matter should be taken care of now. Just think of how many times an active shooter happens and someone yells, "The police were warned and did nothing." All those cops have command staffs that remember that too so this officer gets to spend his evening investigating other options, talking to detectives about getting a warrant, all because "he's out to get you." Or you could just go with him inside and talk to your potential active shooter kid that you didn't realize was about to shoot up a school because you never go into his room and find out if he needs to be placed on a mental health hold or not.

I appreciate a view from the LEO side of things, and this is not intended to be a LE bash fest.

If you go the Safe2Tell website, there is ZERO information for individuals/parents on the receiving end of a report.

In the scenario illustrated in this thread, the son is not an active shooter threat, just a responsible and non-criminal shooting sports enthusiast, like the members of this forum, who happened to make a statement to his friend about going to the range.

What would be the depth of such a report investigation?

[KevDen2005]

That will make it an open season for punk and bitch to lie to authorities.
" that guy has 2- 55gal water drum, and his social media had some metal plumbing pipe and some wires!!!"

Despite the obvious feelings of LE, believe it or not cops realize this and go to people's houses and tell them what they are investigating. I've had parents tell me their kids are fine and are aware of any issues the child is experiencing. Sometimes the reports are BS sometimes they are overly dramatic. Once in a while they turn out to be legit and a parent had no idea their child was experiencing depression, suicidal thoughts, or thinking of killing someone.

[.455_Hunter]

I wouldn't even answer the door.

I think most responsible citizens will answer the door if LE knocks.

[KevDen2005]

I appreciate a view from the LEO side of things, and this is not intended to be a LE bash fest.

If you go the Safe2Tell website, there is ZERO information for individuals/parents on the receiving end of a report.

In the scenario illustrated in this thread, the son is not an active shooter threat, just a responsible and non-criminal shooting sports enthusiast, like the members of this forum, who happened to make a statement to his friend about going to the range.

What would be the depth of such a report investigation?

This happens all the time. Unfortunately in the world we live in, LE will go to the house and let the parents know that someone reported the incident with the child talking about guns. I remind parents all the time, nothing here is illegal, just letting them know that someone was concerned and since they know their kids best maybe check on them and remind them to be careful who they are talking to or talking in front of

[.455_Hunter]

This happens all the time. Unfortunately in the world we live in, LE will go to the house and let the parents know that someone reported the incident with the child talking about guns. I remind parents all the time, nothing here is illegal, just letting them know that someone was concerned and since they know their kids best maybe check on them and remind them to be careful who they are talking to or talking in front of

Thank you. I had no idea about the mandated level of response to one of these reports. What you indicate seems very reasonable and non-confrontational.

I think it is inappropriate for the Safe2Tell organization to keep this part of the procedure out of the public eye.

[FoxtArt]

Yeah, not LE bashing. And not saying LE is out to get anyone. That's why, imho it is wise to be asking questions about the report itself so that the parent can investigate.

As a parent myself, I don't see any value in answering LE questions. And it isn't because they are out to get anyone either. Let me give you an example....

Squatter breaks into a home, owner asks LE to investigate it. LE questions the squatter who says they are renting it and have an oral lease, LE questions the homeowner, who says the squatter broke in and has never had right to be there.

LEO does 14 more calls that day and does his reports at the end of the day. Whether from fatigue or a typo, in his report he says he talked to the homeowner, who said they have an oral lease with the squatter.

LEO is not out to get the homeowner, just making regular mistakes that everyone makes at the end of the day. But it can absolutely F that person's life. I've seen tons of small mistakes like this, they are not malicious, but an LEO's report is usually treated as accurate gospel.

You know what I'd much rather have in a report?

Contacted the homeowner, advised him of the report, homeowner took note of the report and politely refused to answer questions.

Why on gods green earth should we default to allowing all government influence beyond what is necessary? Now there are certainly some parents that are not capable of working with their kids to ascertain their own mental health needs after a report like that. But there are certainly a lot of parents that are fully capable. If someone is in the former category - no judgment upon that, and they certainly should allow access and direct contact if they are not the type that is able to do those heavy discussions.

Not everyone exercising rights is out to get LEO, either.

[KevDen2005]

Yeah, not LE bashing. And not saying LE is out to get anyone. That's why, imho it is wise to be asking questions about the report itself so that the parent can investigate.

As a parent myself, I don't see any value in answering LE questions. And it isn't because they are out to get anyone either. Let me give you an example....

Squatter breaks into a home, owner asks LE to investigate it. LE questions the squatter who says they are renting it and have an oral lease, LE questions the homeowner, who says the squatter broke in and has never had right to be there.

LEO does 14 more calls that day and does his reports at the end of the day. Whether from fatigue or a typo, in his report he says he talked to the homeowner, who said they have an oral lease with the squatter.

LEO is not out to get the homeowner, just making regular mistakes that everyone makes at the end of the day. But it can absolutely F that person's life. I've seen tons of small mistakes like this, they are not malicious, but an LEO's report is usually treated as accurate gospel.

You know what I'd much rather have in a report?

Contacted the homeowner, advised him of the report, homeowner took note of the report and politely refused to answer questions.

Why on gods green earth should we default to allowing all government influence beyond what is necessary? Now there are certainly some parents that are not capable of working with their kids to ascertain their own mental health needs after a report like that. But there are certainly a lot of parents that are fully capable. If someone is in the former category - no judgment upon that, and they certainly should allow access and direct contact if they are not the type that is able to do those heavy discussions.

Not everyone exercising rights is out to get LEO, either.

That was a pretty long drawn out example. And clearly you know a bunch about the law, so I'll save you the explanation that the law tends to side with the resident/tenant in landlord issues, not saying that someone clearly trespassing can't be kicked out and should be kicked out. However, I would call that example rare, and no police reports are not taken as gospel, if so, cops would be in court less.

Sometimes having a polite conversation goes even further.

[KevDen2005]

Thank you. I had no idea about the mandated level of response to one of these reports. What you indicate seems very reasonable and non-confrontational.

I think it is inappropriate for the Safe2Tell organization to keep this part of the procedure out of the public eye.

Safe2Tell doesn't mandate anything, only anonymity. It's department policy that mandates response. I'm sure some rural locations have much lower requirements on response. Since everyone loves examples...let's say an active shooter happened in a small town in Connecticut. After that, every weird kid, family that hunts, kid's that mentions anything violent, etc. get's reported on. After every incident in this country these reports multiply, in addition to the police reports officers are taking on the rising crime in your neighborhood and departments who are losing officers and hiring officers that have no business being cops to replace them and are making everyone's job harder because those new officers didn't take a report or hid out somewhere doing nothing so other officers get overworked. If one of those kids snaps do you think the command staff is going to take the blame? They will in the media, but crap rolls down hill and when it does it picks up momentum and volume. So the cop that takes the report isn't about to risk not at least checking on it.

[Eric P]

Safe2Tell is anonymous

This is the issue. The reporter should be contacted 1st. Can't taken anonymous reports seriously if a reporter won't stand behind the report.

[KevDen2005]

This is the issue. The reporter should be contacted 1st. Can't taken anonymous reports seriously if a reporter won't stand behind the report.

I can't believe I'm about to defend Safe2Tell, a system that I hate so much and has taken up hours of my life...

The idea is that a kid can tell someone that his or her friend is suicidal. A lot of kids have been afraid in the past because their names have been attached. That's what the system was intended for. Do dumbasses do dumbass things with whatever tool we hand them? Yes. Kids especially. Does Safe2Tell get a lot of "my feelings are hurt so it should be a crime" reports, Yes, a ton. Does Safe2Tell get a lot of, "They looked at me mean so they threatened me reports? Also, yes. However, A lot of adult report that too.

I would love if every single anonymous complaint got to be trashed because they were anonymous, not just Safe2Tell, but in everything. That would save me a ton of time in life.

[FoxtArt]

We do appreciate your perspective Ken.

[KevDen2005]

We do appreciate your perspective Ken.

Thank you.

[Bailey Guns]

That will make it an open season for punk and bitch to lie to authorities.
" that guy has 2- 55gal water drum, and his social media had some metal plumbing pipe and some wires!!!"

No different than any other anonymous allegation that could be fabricated about someone. It all boils down to people...shitty people who take advantage of a system to do their shitty things to other people. And cops usually wind up getting caught in the middle. And then you have the knuckleheads who won't even answer the door so you have to spend more time going back later on...or someone else does...just to try to potentially help save a kid and a family from a bad situation.

[.455_Hunter]

I can't believe I'm about to defend Safe2Tell, a system that I hate so much and has taken up hours of my life...

I understand the frustration.

Once again, I think this goes back to the lack public knowledge on what happens on the backside of a Safe2Tell report. Every kid has Safe2Tell reporting procedures drilled into their heads, but crickets on how to handle actually being reported, whether themselves, or with their parents.

Maybe at the start of the academic year, each school district could supply links to the parents explaining the totality of the Safe2Tell program in their area, including how to make reports, and what to expect if their child is implicated in a report, including rights and responsibilities.

[KevDen2005]

No different than any other anonymous allegation that could be fabricated about someone. It all boils down to people...shitty people who take advantage of a system to do their shitty things to other people. And cops usually wind up getting caught in the middle. And then you have the knuckleheads who won't even answer the door so you have to spend more time going back later on...or someone else does...just to try to potentially help save a kid and a family from a bad situation.

I always love when I can't close a report because someone won't answer. My sergeant gets to annoy me on my report is still open and I get start tomorrow's shift with a follow up....it's like a present really

[Bailey Guns]

We do appreciate your perspective Ken.

Yep... You are a much better man than I am, dude. I couldn't take it these days. I seriously don't know how you, and all the other guys and gals like you, put on the uniform every day in today's anti-cop climate. But I'm REALLY glad you do. And I pray for all of you every day...for whatever that's worth.

[Bailey Guns]

I always love when I can't close a report because someone won't answer. My sergeant gets to annoy me on my report is still open and I get start tomorrow's shift with a follow up....it's like a present really

LOL! Like a fruitcake...

[Little Dutch]

Disregard. I misread a post.

[MarkCO]

By the time APD knocked on my door, at 10:45pm, the school had already been informed. I went to the door with a pistol in my hand and once I saw the uniform, I asked to see an ID through the closed and still locked door. Then I saw there were two of them, both in uniforms and a two patrol cars blocking my driveway. I opened the door and stepped outside. The officers were great BTW and basically said they had no choice, and it might be nothing, and then told me what was reported...I called my son down and the officers talked to him, in my presence. The asshat friend of my son who, from another state called it in was a belligerent Karen if ever there was one. One of my son's had said something to the other and had told his friend about it. It was really nothing at all. I had to call the school the next morning before my boys could return. It was like a really bad case of "telephone". I have no doubt there are good uses of this system, but so far, at my boys school, not a single one had been legit. Since I work security at the school, I get notified of all of the reports that come in to the school.

[DDT951]

This happens all the time. Unfortunately in the world we live in, LE will go to the house and let the parents know that someone reported the incident with the child talking about guns. I remind parents all the time, nothing here is illegal, just letting them know that someone was concerned and since they know their kids best maybe check on them and remind them to be careful who they are talking to or talking in front of

When I was in school I generally took reading material (i.e. magazines) for study hall or the silent times when I was done with the classwork.

More than once it was a gun magazine.

Imagine taking Guns and Ammo to a middle or high school today...

But in all fairness, High Times would have got me in trouble then, now the LGTBQ teacher would applaud me and try conversion therapy...

[Hummer]

When I was in high school I took my Anschutz target rifle to school two days a week so I could go directly to early practice at the Arvada Rifle & Pistol Club. I kept it behind the seat in my '54 Ford truck or in the trunk of my '60 Ford Falcon in the school parking lot, and never told a soul about having a gun at school.

Later in college I occasionally carried one or another revolver that had been my grandfathers. Again, never told a soul including the good friends who were often with me.

Only a few years earlier many schools had gun safety programs and on campus rifle ranges. If anyone ever had an inkling of harming someone with a gun their conscience had an understanding of the moral consequences.

My grandmother lived on a farm in rural Iowa and told stories about carrying her rifle to school every day so she could shoot rabbits on the way home for supper. It was in the pre WWI era. The students racked their rifles by their coats in the school entry. I still have her rabbit gun, a Winchester model 1903 semi auto .22.

[KevDen2005]

When I was in school I generally took reading material (i.e. magazines) for study hall or the silent times when I was done with the classwork.

More than once it was a gun magazine.

Imagine taking Guns and Ammo to a middle or high school today...

But in all fairness, High Times would have got me in trouble then, now the LGTBQ teacher would applaud me and try conversion therapy...

When I was in high school I kept my head shaved, it was just easier, and I was a CAP cadet, and loved anything Army. It was not a mystery that I couldn't wait to join the infantry. People knew we had guns in the house and that were an avid outdoors family. Within a day or two after Columbine I was called into the principal's office to make sure I wasn't going to be the next school shooter. I hadn't made any comments or threats. Someone just overheard me talking about army stuff or gun stuff with a friend. Oddly enough a very liberal teacher made a complaint about that on my behalf as one of her students she knew me well and was upset that my teachers weren't asked first since they obviously knew me better than school administration.

So I get the irritation in the matter.

[DDT951]

I’ve

You are somewhat younger than me, but not so much younger you wouldn’t have seen it.

When I was in high school in Colorado.. (late 80s early 90s) if there was a pickup a truck in Colorado (well had Colorado plates or Wyo) it was mandatory that a gun rack was in the back window.

What self respecting truck driver wouldn’t have a gun rack?

[KevDen2005]

I’ve

You are somewhat younger than me, but not so much younger you wouldn’t have seen it.

When I was in high school in Colorado.. (late 80s early 90s) if there was a pickup a truck in Colorado (well had Colorado plates or Wyo) it was mandatory that a gun rack was in the back window.

What self respecting truck driver wouldn’t have a gun rack?

Spent time growing up in SE Kansas and North of Denver and in both places it was very common to have a gun rack. Where else would you put your rifle? Having a truck was like owning a home. You have to have a gun for both