View Full Version : Shop/Space Heaters - Propane or Keroscene?
gnihcraes
12-25-2009, 22:40
Ok, So I have a little bit of money given to me for christmas, and want to spend it on something to heat my garage/shop. Small area, about 600sqf.
Should I go for forced air propane or kerosene - like a torpedo type space heater?
Kerosene probably has a smell to it doesn't it?
Propane will probably be more costly though. I already have a small propane heater, but it is only tank top and doesn't do much for the "whole" garage.
Any of you have experience with these types of heating, I'd value your opinion.
Thanks...[Pepsi]
tbaby303
12-25-2009, 22:45
http://www.woodlandproducts.com/heater951.jpg
try these heaters it might get the job done. kerosene heater do have a smell to it and i think you will not like working in that smell. another option is.
http://www.outdoorswoodstoves.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/garage-heaters.jpg
gnihcraes
12-25-2009, 22:53
Yes, that's what I'm thinking ^^
I've considered the infrared type heaters, but their cost is greater and I'm not sure if it would be cheaper to run? I want to be comfortable in the garage! Warmer the better... that's where my reloading bench is. (Man cave)
I'm concerned about the smell of kerosene, I don't want to get headaches or anything from the smell. I do have a friend who has asthma and he would be visiting and reloading with me at times, don't need him laying on the floor wheezing even if it was warm. :)
i had one of those reddy heaters that ran off propane! great deal! they kept my garage comfortable to turn a wrench!
I've considered the infrared type heaters, but their cost is greater and I'm not sure if it would be cheaper to run?
The answer is no, Heat and electricity really do not go together as an economical heat source.. Unless of course, You are in a small electric room with 2500 amp gear in it... Even the new fangled infared ones will make the meter spin...
Most economical over the long run would be to just run a gas line to the the garage and do it that way.. If it's a detached garage, it might take a little longer for it to pay for itself.. If that is just not an option, then the propane is the next best bet.. Just make sure you have good ventilation,, Should be no problem..
jerrymrc
12-26-2009, 09:17
I have a 40,000 BTU bullet heater and notice no smell while it is running. Yes you do get a little on start up and shut down but for the most part they are 100 times better than the wick type.
I have also had a propane one but the Co was terrible. If I run the bullet kero one I see 1ppm after 2 hours of use in a 24'X24' garage. Just some thoughts.
GreenScoutII
12-26-2009, 09:30
I don't know exactly what your budget is, but you might consider a permanantly mounted natural gas garage heater.
Of the types you mentioned, I would go with a propane torpedo type heater. I use one frequently on jobsites in cold weather. Propane is a pain to deal with due to the size of the bottles if portability is a concern, but it has far less odor than kerosene. Both propane and kerosene can get expensive in a hurry, but propane is a lot cheaper this year than last.
Another option if you have a detached garage is a small pellet stove. These are very efficent and wood pellets are fairly inexpensive. The downside is you must vent the heater to the outside and the initial purchase can be costly.
If you can afford it, a permanantly installed garage heater running on natural gas will be the cheapest to run in the long term and give the best results overall.
Great-Kazoo
12-26-2009, 09:46
unless your garage is insulated, neither one will be efficient over time.
my garage is insulated and last night the temp w/out heat was 40. i run a small portable propane one http://compare.ebay.com/like/120446652334
it keeps my garage (725 sqft) at a warm 55. with the insulation, 2) 52" ceiling fans and this heater going, 55 is t-shirt warm. i keep east and west garage door's opened up approx 1" and crack the sliding window the same, for oxygen replenishment. My heater is kept on the low setting and it does the job.
Kerosene smells, even using the odor free, cost more in the long run, and does not work for my needs. I have a 40lb bottle of propane and that usually last me all winter long.
your heating investment should be decided by how much you use the garage.
are you in there using it as a business, or just hobby, the usual working scenario? if in there 6+hrs a day then invest in an overhead propane or NG system. If you have a detached garage like mine (100' from the house) then consider a 100lb tank for your supply. I can't as i would have to trench NG line across the sewer line, with or w/out a permit it is a no go here.
try throwing used carpet or those 3x3 work mats on the floor. warm feet is 1/2 the battle.
ALSO make sure you have something to ground yourself to before handling powder :)
might check craigs list, lot's of times people sell or replace a heater in home or? and then give away or sell cheap their old ones.
I can't really comment on which would be better as I have a little over 1200+ ' shop with radiant floor heat....
gnihcraes
12-26-2009, 10:03
Thanks everyone. Budget is $500 or less. Yes I've considered permanent propane or natural gas too. I'd rather at this time spend less money and use left over money for other toys. (guns and ammo :))
I do want to be warm while reloading though... and other garage type projects. The garage isn't use for business or great lengths of time in most cases. I'd spend more time out there goofing around if it were warmer.
It is made of concrete block and not insulated. I started framing the walls this fall and insulating them, but ran out of time. I'll finish it up this spring or summer when I can remove everything and finish framing. I'll insulate the roof too, just don't feel like working around all the junk in there at this time.
I can get the natural gas line run over to the garage from the house meter without too much effort proabably, but I will have to run it underground for a minimum of 15 feet probably as the garage is detatched from the house by that distance. It would actually be closer to tap into the neighbors meter. :) ha. It's a rental, they won't notice....
I could get something Propane installed and work off a larger 100 gallon tank external to the garage or something like that. I live just a couple blocks from a major propane dealer and it wouldn't be much trouble to get the larger tank filled when needed. I need to check with them on what types of prices and equipment they could order and install.
Portability isn't required, but could be nice to have in the future.
In reality if I had the money, I'd just build a new shop on the vacant land and insulate it properly and install natural gas and new heating equipment. No money for that yet... stinks. (still dreaming though)
Thanks for the input... I'll do some shopping today and see what I come up with.
Keep the ideas coming if there are more.
appreciate it... Kc.
gnihcraes
12-26-2009, 10:10
I check craigslist now and then for heaters, there are a few out there. The prices are questionable sometimes, a beat up shop heater for not much less than a new one.
I like the radiant heated floor systems, I've installed those in my bathroom tile floors, but can't get that accomplished in the old garage.
I do have a few rubber type matts on the floor to keep the feet off the concrete...
Great-Kazoo
12-26-2009, 10:33
RE: 100lb propane tank
Unless you have enough clearence between houses you cannot install a propane tank outside. building and Fire code (depending on where you live) will put a crimp in that.
buy a 40 lb'er keep it outside your garage door and have a reddy heater inside. drop a small fan behind it and that will keep you warm. a 40lb tank should get you through the winter. maybe not this windy one, but should work fine.
the only thing that needs to be replaced if it craps out on you is the thermal coupler. they run about $15
this one is a good deal for the money.
http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/1524887108.html
Check out this forum, they have a great string on heating and cooling garages.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/
gnihcraes
12-26-2009, 13:36
great information and links... I'm checking it all out....
I found a guy on Craigslist that had bought a bunch of these for a great deal, and was selling them new in box for $50. Puts out beaucoup heat, but man, does it gobble the propane. Also, buildup of carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide can be bad news.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/garage/DSCN1092.jpg
I've since had a Hot Dawg garage heater installed, and it works fine, but I wish I'd bought a bigger one. Permanent installation, natural gas, vented, no pilot light, nice unit. Just not big enough to suit me. Perhaps if I ever finish the insulation and drywalling.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/garage/modine1.gif
gnihcraes
12-27-2009, 09:23
I picked up a small propane 50kbtu unit yesterday at lowes.
http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/642391/642391036260md.jpg
Seems to work pretty well. Noisy dang thing. :) I'll goof around with it some more today and see how well it keeps the garage warm.
Was going to buy the similar product at Home Depot, but apparently it's close to summer so they have removed all but the largest portable heaters from the shelf. What idiots. They said their stock had been moved to another store in Arvada, so I trek up there and they have no idea what I'm talking about... so Lowes got my money...
Thanks for all the input on this, I'll eventually look into one of these Hot Dawg units. I think my garage had one like this in it's past, there is a vent stack through the roof in one corner, so It would be an easy other than the gas line.
kc.
The bar I go to has two of those hot dog units, one large, one small. There is no insulation on the smoking patio, just roll down vinyl with plastic windows. Most of the time it is actually warmer out on the patio than it is inside the bar!
gnihcraes
12-27-2009, 19:17
This has kept the garage pretty warm today during testing for several hours. I did have to set it up with some outside air intake through the garage door, it was getting pretty airless in there with it running! Seems to be reasonable on propane usage. I was warm so I won't complain much about the $$ to run it.
tbaby303
12-27-2009, 21:37
Just becarful puting a heater next to your reloading bench. Those two dont belong togeter. Once again becarful and Happy reloading
This has kept the garage pretty warm today during testing for several hours. I did have to set it up with some outside air intake through the garage door, it was getting pretty airless in there with it running! Seems to be reasonable on propane usage. I was warm so I won't complain much about the $$ to run it.
Just an FYI - I've had both my Hot Dawg and my propane heater running before at the same time, and the amount of CO and CO2 that the propane heater puts out will cause the Hot Dawg to shut down because the oxygen sensor tells it there's not enough oxygen to run it. Not conducive to human life at that point. [Help]
gnihcraes
12-28-2009, 10:54
I'm keeping the heater away from the reloading bench... the heater is across the garage so there is no contact with anything else. There are other flammable items in the garage obviously, but I'm keeping it a safe distance from everything...
CO/CO2 - I did have to set it up to get some fresh air intake which seemed to make a difference... it was getting a little airless in there after a while. :)
Intresting thing though, I did bring out an extra CO detector I had in the house, it doesn't seem to register anything... I'll probably pick up another new CO detector at the store and mount it in the garage.
GreenScoutII
12-28-2009, 11:20
Yeah, an additional carbon monoxide detector is a good idea.
The dangers of CO are not to be underestimated. This is something where a guy doesn't want to take chances. Be careful, make sure you have adequate ventilation, and don't leave a running heater unattended...
Trust me on this one....
I feel that it is better to use an oil filled space heater as they are more effective and are not as dangerous as the kerosene or the propane ones. They are use electricity to run and are digital and therefore consume less energy.
StagLefty
03-19-2010, 05:43
I believe in the kerosene or propane heaters because you have emergency heat if the power fails !
gnihcraes
03-19-2010, 08:44
oil filled will not heat the garage in a timely matter, I'll freeze to death before it helps.
I'm using a propane forced air now and it takes it a while to make the space comfortable. I put a large tank on it so I don't have to refill as often...
Did you check out Hot Water Baseboard Heaters? You might be able to find a small system that you could use. Try the Habitat for Humanity Store or a used construction material place. I just don't trust propane in a confined space. 2 cents worth [Coffee]
How big is your garage? My 18x18 is 324 sq. ft., and you said 600? That's pretty dang big, IMO.
Do you live someplace where you could use a wood or pellet stove? Those double-barrel stoves made from two 55 gal. steel drums work pretty good. You might even be able to poke your propane forced-air heater in the fire door and use that instead of wood.
Those drums will radiate out a LOT of heat once they're hot inside. I worked in a machine shop with one once upon a time. First and foremost should be insulation and drywall to seal the place up and keep the heat in.
I also have good ideas for storage if you're interested. I store tons of stuff on 24" shelves at the top of the walls, near the ceiling. Simple to build from 2x2's and particle board.
gnihcraes
03-19-2010, 15:15
I'm pretty good to go, propane is working for me right now. Wood burning is an option, but it will take up much needed space and then I have to deal with wood storage/purchase. By the time wood burning would make the garage hot enough, I'd probably be done with any projects anyway. Propane is working now, I can turn it on, low med high and get things going and stay warm for 15 minutes or several hours at a time.
Water heating isn't an option, detached garage, no fuel source other than electric and plumbing would be a pain in the neck...
I'll finish framing the walls and insulating the garage this spring/summer and it will be good for next winters projects.
I think I have to nominate you for Avatar Of The Month, by the way.....WTH did you get that? I'm getting hand cramps.
gnihcraes
03-20-2010, 00:34
heck, I'm not sure. Google images I believe... nice huh. Sorry for causing you pain.
:)
Here is the link to all her pictures:
Keyra Augustina
http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&ndsp=18&um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=Keyra+Augustina&start=0&sa=N
Oh, and don't forget this one - different lady...
http://data76.sevenload.com/slcom/ev/wd/hjklrmd/bkubltsjktof.jpg~/the-best-ass-ever.jpg (http://data76.sevenload.com/slcom/ev/wd/hjklrmd/bkubltsjktof.jpg%7E/the-best-ass-ever.jpg)
StagLefty
03-20-2010, 13:49
Now those are space heaters my friends [ROFL1]
If you can run gas, that is without question the way to go! I did this for under $300. 44k BTU,700Sq garage, and it does great!!! I was lucky however that my service was on the other side of the garage wall, about 12 feet to the right. I have had the garage at 70 with the outside temp around 10, of course full insulation helps. Look around and you can find these units for about 2-300, this one is a Reznor, Modines are great also. And just for the record, I do have another ball valve to shut off gas to the unit, you cant see it in the pic.....[Tooth] Good luck!!
http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss170/waxthis/GarHtr.jpg
[Beer]
gnihcraes
03-20-2010, 19:00
I'd love to have one. And will eventually, where did you pick it up for that price? I'd get gas run to the garage if I could find a unit cheap enough to put in.
I'd love to have one. And will eventually, where did you pick it up for that price? I'd get gas run to the garage if I could find a unit cheap enough to put in.
This was a 1999 model year that I was lucky enough to pick up from a buddy of mine, after a few minor repairs it was around $200. I have seen similar ones between 2-$300. Just keep an eye out and you will eventually find one, took me over a year...
Y'know, before I bought my Hot Dawg, I looked all over hell for something like that! I never did find a place that had anything like that in stock.
Smokin deal on Craigs List!!!
http://denver.craigslist.org/for/1678294514.html
[Beer]
Smokin deal on Craigs List!!!
http://denver.craigslist.org/for/1678294514.html
[Beer]
Anyone know how many sq ft of garage space a 45,000btu heater will warm?
Anyone know how many sq ft of garage space a 45,000btu heater will warm?
My garage is a tad over 700Sq, well insulated and 45k is plenty...I would say up to 1000Sq... This may help you
http://www.heater-store.com/heater_calculator_info.htm
My garage is a tad over 700Sq, well insulated and 45k is plenty...I would say up to 1000Sq... This may help you
http://www.heater-store.com/heater_calculator_info.htm
It's about 1,000sq ft w/tall ceilings, three windows (w/coverings), two doors and two overhead doors (one double wide) w/insulation panels and all is drywalled. House was built about 4yrs ago and is an energy efficient home so I hope some of that spilled over into the garage as they were building as well. I'm pretty immune to weather so I don't need it to stay 70 deg or anything... just a little warmer in the winter.
gnihcraes
04-06-2010, 17:49
that is a good deal... wish I had 500.
It's about 1,000sq ft w/tall ceilings, three windows (w/coverings), two doors and two overhead doors (one double wide) w/insulation panels and all is drywalled. House was built about 4yrs ago and is an energy efficient home so I hope some of that spilled over into the garage as they were building as well. I'm pretty immune to weather so I don't need it to stay 70 deg or anything... just a little warmer in the winter.
If you’re looking to get into the 55-65 degree neighborhood, with the outside air around 1 or so, and judging how you described your garage, a 45k BTU unit would be more than enough. A 65K BTU unit would cycle too much, as it would heat the garage to fast, more is not always better.
A ceiling fan mounted at the opposite end of the garage will help with circulation also....Just my 2 cents....Good Luck....
[Beer]
If you’re looking to get into the 55-65 degree neighborhood, with the outside air around 1 or so, and judging how you described your garage, a 45k BTU unit would be more than enough. A 65K BTU unit would cycle too much, as it would heat the garage to fast, more is not always better.
A ceiling fan mounted at the opposite end of the garage will help with circulation also....Just my 2 cents....Good Luck....
[Beer]
Good points and the ceiling fan is not a bad idea either. Hmmm...
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