Neighborhood License Plate Readers

[kidicarus13]

Does anyone else have these in their neighborhood or subdivision?

https://www.flocksafety.com/products/flock-cameras

https://spyscape.com/article/how-to-protect-your-privacy-in-a-surveillance-state

My first thought is big brother but maybe I am being paranoid. I have an oppertunity to white-list each owned vehicle and that's the direction I'm currently leaning towards. Am I missing something that I haven't considered? I would appreciate any thoughts or personal experiences of any members.

[def90]

Are you part of an HOA or something?

[kidicarus13]

Are you part of an HOA or something?Yes but I wasn't aware of the cameras until after installation. Allegedly camera/plate data only accessible to LE and no one else (i.e. HOA Board).

[eddiememphis]

I don't understand the question.

You have these cameras in your area and someone is asking you to identify your vehicles?

[BladesNBarrels]

I guess the cameras around your neighborhood are utilized to create a data base of all the cars coming and going?
Then that data base can be accessed to trace any particular car?
And, is it your HOA paying for that?
Is the crime rate really that high?
Israel has tracking like that and I am guessing that a lot of communities probably do too.
Big brother is watching you.
Then, inevitably, there will be unauthorized usage and releases of information.
I certainly would question what liability the HOA has and what you as a member have when the data is misused.

[def90]

Yes but I wasn't aware of the cameras until after installation. Allegedly camera/plate data only accessible to LE and no one else (i.e. HOA Board).

Do your HOA bylaws allow for 24 hour monitoring of your whereabouts and your daily routine?

I'm sure the system is being sold to the residents as a safety feature.

[Frac]

If the data is only available to LE, then why do they need you to whitelist your vehicles? Shouldn?t LE be able to look up registration and see which cars are owned in the neighborhood?

[kidicarus13]

I'm sure the system is being sold to the residents as a safety feature.

Bingo

[kidicarus13]

If the data is only available to LE, then why do they need you to whitelist your vehicles? Shouldn?t LE be able to look up registration and see which cars are owned in the neighborhood?

The camera is not video, it is a photo capture per vehicle pass similar to red light cameras. Allegedly, if the camera captures and reads your plate and you are on the white list, the photo and your plate is not retained by the system.

[kidicarus13]

I don't understand the question.

You have these cameras in your area and someone is asking you to identify your vehicles?These are newly installed and I am asking the group if anyone has any personal experience with them or can think of any reason the benefits may outweigh the potential detriment.

[kidicarus13]

I guess the cameras around your neighborhood are utilized to create a data base of all the cars coming and going? I AM THINKING YES
Then that data base can be accessed to trace any particular car? I AM THINKING YES
And, is it your HOA paying for that? I WILL HAVE TO CONFIRM THAT BUT NOT SURE WHO ELSE WOULD.
Is the crime rate really that high? RELATIVELY NON-EXISTANT

[def90]

So the old lady that sits in her front window all day moved out?

[eddiememphis]

This is why I always recommend to get on the HOA board.

If you cannot join, you should at least attend meetings.

There are many things that come up in these meetings that no one knows about until they have been enacted. And often there is no recourse.

I think you need to invest in your community. Or a paintball gun...

[battlemidget]

This guy might come to your neighborhood

https://www.reddit.com/r/DenverCirclejerk/comments/vla5bb/denver_doing_your_photoshoots_now/

[kidicarus13]

This guy might come to your neighborhood

https://www.reddit.com/r/DenverCirclejerk/comments/vla5bb/denver_doing_your_photoshoots_now/[emoji1787]

[gnihcraes]

Castle rock has them. They catch stolen vehicles fairly frequently. Data is live feed and alerts PD of a stolen vehicle detected where seen , PD starts swarming the area.

Usually nets a big drug bust at the same time, go figure.

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

[longrange2]

More and more reason to leave CO, the loss of freedom and privacy is disgusting.

[Martinjmpr]

Uh, haven't people been complaining nonstop about car theft being rampant, catalytic converter thieves and porch pirates stealing packages off people's door steps and demanding that the city/county "DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS CRIME WAVE?"

Well, this is "something." [Dunno]

[Frac]

The camera is not video, it is a photo capture per vehicle pass similar to red light cameras. Allegedly, if the camera captures and reads your plate and you are on the white list, the photo and your plate is not retained by the system.

I read the website before I posted. It reads like they are using AI to find patterns and recognize common and uncommon cars in the area. They?re sending data to the police when an unknown vehicle comes in. It wasn?t clear if the company does or the police do, but the system allows searches by other attributes, like the color of the car.

I would want to know if ?whitelist? means that they still keep my data. You alluded to that, but I don?t see it on their website. I would prefer to opt out, as in a way to prevent them from retaining my data or transmitting it to the police. If that?s the whitelist, then I would sign up.

To me, it is one thing to take a picture on a public street. It is a totally different thing to do it every time I drive by and start building a database of the time and who knows what other data. Could this be challenged on privacy or electronic stalking laws?

This is a form of AI, and I believe that AI should be developed and used in responsible ways. Sooner or later someone will challenge this as racist. Before you scream, think about it. If minorities are more often working the gig economy or delivery jobs, they are more often going to be reported as not fitting in or being a suspicious car. If this leads to more arrests of minorities than it does of whites, someone will jump all over it.

[kidicarus13]

Thanks for all of the feedback everyone.

[def90]

The issue is that the police still won't do anything.. so an HOA says an unknown car has entered our property, police respond by hanging up. I install CCTV and security systems, the truth is that unless you know specifically who the perp is and have evidence they will not respond, you will have to file an online police report. A license plate number means nothing when car theft is at all time highs.

To me this sounds like an entreprising business has sold the HOA on spending a lot of money for a system that isn't going to do anything for them in the long run.

[def90]

Looking again at the link in the OP there are no specs listed for the cameras that I could find. Unless they are 4k cams and have built in license plate recognition software you aren't going to see shit. Judging by the photos of the cameras those are low cost Chinese shit. Basically Ring cameras on a pole.

[Eric P]

Yep. Complete waste of cash being sent to a "scamming" company fleecing an HOA on the promise of improved security and safety. Worst part is that residents will like go for because they feel safer, and in today's sheepish society, feeling matter more than reality.

[FoxtArt]

Many of these systems deal with data brokers - places that have massive, national databases and sell access to people like skip tracers, private investigators, bounty hunters, law enforcement (state and federal) etc. And many times, nosey neighbors do have data access.

Part of why they are marketed heavily to large HOAs has little to do with securing the neighborhood. It's a very marketable feature to be able to advertise to every Bob, Dick and Tom that they can run a search for the low low price of (just the tip) and find everywhere someone has been in the last year and how often. Looks like that car visited for thanksgiving last year, lets stake it out in November this year, and break the door down when turkey is on the table...

[TheGrey]

Many of these systems deal with data brokers - places that have massive, national databases and sell access to people like skip tracers, private investigators, bounty hunters, law enforcement (state and federal) etc. And many times, nosey neighbors do have data access.

Part of why they are marketed heavily to large HOAs has little to do with securing the neighborhood. It's a very marketable feature to be able to advertise to every Bob, Dick and Tom that they can run a search for the low low price of (just the tip) and find everywhere someone has been in the last year and how often. Looks like that car visited for thanksgiving last year, lets stake it out in November this year, and break the door down when turkey is on the table...

Damn skippy the databases sell that info, and it's a booming business. To answer the question of how long they keep it: I've seen plates over a year old on these databases. These type of cameras are all over: opting out of one doesn't mean another down the street won't catch you when you park at King Soopers or are merging onto the highway.

[kidicarus13]

I located the 3-page "policy" and pulled some information from it...

* purpose-built/programmed to only be vehicle identification tools for Law Enforcement -during specific, targeted searches.

* allow Law Enforcement the opportunity to match reported nefarious and criminal activities, in the neighborhood, with vehicles entering and exiting the neighborhood, at incident-related-targeted times. The Data will also allow Law Enforcement to search for known stolen vehicles, which could enter the neighborhood, to possibly be used for nefarious and criminal activities

* only capture vehicle rear ends, as triggered by a vehicle present. If anything passes by the cameras, the cameras will capture that image, However, unless Law Enforcement is interested in that exact point in time, that image will never be accessed, and no additional Data will be generated from the image.

* only to record the license plates of vehicles entering and exiting the community in order to assist Law Enforcement in investigating a reported crime.

* data is retained for 30 days


With this information along with the the consensus of the group thus far, I believe I will be opting out.