View Full Version : OK To Remove Firearm Ser Nums - WV Federal Court
Bailey Guns
10-13-2022, 15:43
A federal court in WV has ruled that 18 USC 922(k) which criminalizes the removal, alteration or obliteration of a firearm serial number, in and of itself, is unconstitutional. Holy s**t!
Bruen kills another law...
https://reason.com/volokh/2022/10/13/requirement-of-serial-numbers-on-guns-violates-second-amendment/
BushMasterBoy
10-13-2022, 17:56
Next they will require a chip implant and bar code tattoo. If they don't like you, you get a brain pain device. Proposed by the Republicans and funded by the Democrats.
Bailey Guns
10-13-2022, 18:15
^^ What does that have to do with a court ruling a gun law unconstitutional? FFS...
This is huge, in my opinion, and a great win for gun owners...another great win...as a result of Bruen. This likely also means the 80% rule change requiring serial numbers will be invalidated. I'll take every win we can get thru the courts if it makes the rights of gun owners stronger.
battlemidget
10-13-2022, 18:56
Not that I disagree, but I'd be curious to hear what violent crime police think about this.
Not that I disagree, but I'd be curious to hear what violent crime police think about this.
I'm confused by what you mean here.?
Bailey Guns
10-13-2022, 19:38
I'm confused by what you mean here.?
Me, too... I'm not following.
battlemidget
10-13-2022, 20:09
I'm confused by what you mean here.?
There's all different kinds of police. Some work violent crimes that involve firearms, and I'd be curious to hear what those police think.
^^ What does that have to do with a court ruling a gun law unconstitutional? FFS...
This is huge, in my opinion, and a great win for gun owners...another great win...as a result of Bruen. This likely also means the 80% rule change requiring serial numbers will be invalidated. I'll take every win we can get thru the courts if it makes the rights of gun owners stronger.
The 80% rule change didn't require home gamers to mark their guns. Denver, on the other hand.....
BushMasterBoy
10-13-2022, 20:54
^^ What does that have to do with a court ruling a gun law unconstitutional? FFS...
This is huge, in my opinion, and a great win for gun owners...another great win...as a result of Bruen. This likely also means the 80% rule change requiring serial numbers will be invalidated. I'll take every win we can get thru the courts if it makes the rights of gun owners stronger.
.gov control...they want control....they want to own you...if you think they don't...you are naive
Bailey Guns
10-13-2022, 21:16
.gov control...they want control....they want to own you...if you think they don't...you are naive
Got it. A court ruling that actually does the opposite of giving the gov't more control is a bad thing. And I'm the na?ve one.
[panic]
Not that I disagree, but I'd be curious to hear what violent crime police think about this.
Who cares. The government should have zero ability to link a gun to a purchaser. Nor should anyone need to seek permission from the government to purchase a tool specifically intended to keep government in check.
battlemidget
10-14-2022, 07:06
Me, too... I'm not following.
re-reading my post, I can see where my description was confusing. I was referring to detectives and investigative elements.
Got it. A court ruling that actually does the opposite of giving the gov't more control is a bad thing. And I'm the na?ve one.
[panic]
91757
This is a one off judicial order that won't stand the test of time. (in part, because the courts logic is flawed, the practice of serializing firearms goes back more than a hundred years before it was required by law).
And it's not a victory for gun owners, it's a victory for gun thieves. Gun owners aren't going to go grinding off the serials of their guns and kill all the value of them. I challenge you to find a legitimate owner that, GCA or not, would go grinding off the serials of their Colts, Winchesters, or World War II collection.
99.9% of the time, that doesn't happen until they are stolen or intended to be used in the commission of a crime. I celebrate actual victories, this one is a massive pile of "meh". It's not a step one way or the other, it'll get overturned and the headline is dumb, rooting for it doesn't help our overall image imho (much like the left rooting for giving felons a vote from prison), but it's hardly a blip on the radar to matter either way.
Now pro-80% or home build ruling, those would be a step in the right direction.
.gov control...they want control....they want to own you...if you think they don't...you are naive
Ok, I'm lost on your comments here to honest.
This ruling (how ever short lived or ineffective) is a step away from Govt control, not towards it.
And this:
"....Next they will require a chip implant and bar code tattoo. If they don't like you, you get a brain pain device. Proposed by the Republicans and funded by the Democrats......."
I dont see how that applies here or leads to that.
But to each his own.
re-reading my post, I can see where my description was confusing. I was referring to detectives and investigative elements.
Oh, ok I'm following now:
I would assume this will make things harder for them.
It's one less charge they can use against bad people, doing bad things.
But I'm also not sure how much this will affect laws Nation wide.
I'm in the "this doesn't really help us camp" though.......... since I cant see why you normally want to remove a serial.
Now if it leads to reversing the 80% nonsense ............ Great!
Though ANY court led push back we get................ I'll take.
Bailey Guns
10-15-2022, 06:32
Though ANY court led push back we get................ I'll take.
That's kind of where I'm at. I agree that probably no one is going to run out and file off serial numbers. The point of the whole thing is a federal court judge is using logic and historical precedence to make a ruling that isn't unfavorable to gun owners. If that's the case, it's a win.
JohnnyEgo
10-17-2022, 15:02
Consider it a sort of protest ruling; it was made and written in a way to highlight concerns about the current ban on means testing. Like 'look what you are making me do, Supreme Court.'
To some extent, a win is a win. But this was more a ruling in protest versus a ruling in support.
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