View Full Version : Improving Home heating insulation/Effeciency
Any good pointers for insulating a 70's era farmhouse. Not sure how cost effective trying to put anything in the walls or the limited semi inaccessible attic. We certainly have door drafts (can see light through front door). Not sure if one kind of stripping is better than another especially for a frame with uneven gaps.
One room is a converted garage with tile laid by the tards directly on the old concrete pad that is at a slope, so we've had some tiles popping up a bit loose from the mortar, but more than anything the floor is just cold as fuck and I'm sure is zapping the houses heat. Problem is it's the backdoor to let dogs out, so carpeting the whole thing to hide slope a bit or deal with any unevenness isn't great since we have muddy dogs coming and going. Maybe just find a ton of carpet squares.
Major concern in all this. We are electric heat/ac. Most of the year even with our 104 degree June didnt seem so bad. But now over winter, we shot from like $180 bill to $350 and now $450 even with a fairly hot winter with some cold streaks in OK. Not sure how easy we could change our heating since it's all in a pretty dang small combined unit in a wall closet thing. (Lol someone telling me electric heat was so efficient?)
We have a unused fireplace, on the back a room was added, so not sure it can be used for wood fire possibly heating up too much through the brick into the closet on the backend, but was thinking of trying to get a propane insert if we can run gas to it without much issue. We have a 250gallon tank we barely use for just water heat/stove and would also help with possible power outages if it can be ran without power.
Almost want to go ghetto and throw foam panels in the windows of a few rooms we hardly use. But regardless, when I dont know much about something, I often get analysis paralysis such as simply picking from 20 brands of weatherstripping.
encorehunter
01-21-2023, 09:21
Depending on siding, a piece or two can be removed and blown in insulation put into walls by drilling walls. Blown in can help with attic, even if it is poorly accessible. Used commercial carpet tile are inexpensive on Craigslist and can be pulled and washed or easily replaced when bad. Depending on slope, cut 2x4 on angle and put subfloor in, or use concrete or floor leveler to level floor. If solid concrete, glue down osb/plywood and lay flooring over it. It will insulate some from the concrete.
A wood insert or propane would definately help a lot. It is a lot cheaper than electric. Consider a propane wall heater if need be, or a wall mount furnace. Heavy curtains over windows helps as well. The door may be better off just replacing, but there should be a weather stripping to fix almost anything.
Ya, my only fear is going overboard and doing stuff that would take 20 years to pay itself off as well, out here not sure they will do thermal energy audits etc. Almost an argument to try solar though I'm still very hesitant though my shop if they arn't too heavy has ample sun.
Cost vs return is a huge deal. Are you going to do it yourself? Counting your labor as free? How long are you going to be in the house?
Time to number crunch and go from there.
eddiememphis
01-21-2023, 16:55
The concrete is sucking the heat away. Heat is drawn to cold. The slab has a lot of thermal mass, meaning it will take a lot of energy to change its temperature. It's likely a losing battle since you are fight the ground temp.
Insulating the slab is the best plan. Carpet is okay since it has foam under it to insulate it. Anything you can put down to keep the room air from contacting the slab will help. You may want to look at pallets. They are often free and you can raise the wood off the slab for an air space that could be insulated with expanded polystyrene, fiberglass or even sawdust or newspaper.
If you can find some concrete blankets, get 'em. They are great insulators that can be spread out on the floor or hung from the walls. We used several of them to insulate the north facing steel doors in a shop and it was almost tolerable in there.
Look for a used pellet stove. Mine works great. They are fan forced so they heat up an area quickly.
You can have an energy auditor come out to the house and do an IR scan of the walls and ceiling and they can tell you where your biggest issues are and they can tell you where to use your money in the most efficient way possible.
I'm guessing the concrete/tile floor on the converted garage is just one of the issues, if you've ever camped and slept directly on the ground without an insulated pad you would know how the ground will suck all of the heat out of you no matter how good of a sleeping bag you have. I wouldn't doubt if the old garage walls have close to zero if any insulation in the walls and the ceiling above along with the rest of the house if it was built more than 30 years ago.
You can have an energy auditor come out to the house and do an IR scan of the walls and ceiling and they can tell you where your biggest issues are and they can tell you where to use your money in the most efficient way possible.
I'm guessing the concrete/tile floor on the converted garage is just one of the issues, if you've ever camped and slept directly on the ground without an insulated pad you would know how the ground will suck all of the heat out of you no matter how good of a sleeping bag you have. I wouldn't doubt if the old garage walls have close to zero if any insulation in the walls and the ceiling above along with the rest of the house if it was built more than 30 years ago.
My computer is in there and even with socks I freeze even if room warm so yeah seen it in action. The garage was added maybe like 10 years or so ago then converted into a room a few days ago. A lot of this seems done questionable diy given they couldn't even get the wall floorboards joined well for the slope.
battlemidget
01-22-2023, 07:53
Get some heated booties. They got electric ones now that are beyond excellent.
encorehunter
01-22-2023, 08:49
How long do you plan on living there? What is your comfort worth? As I get older, I like to be comfortable more and more. Pellet stoves are a great investment, though are getting more expensive for pellets. You could get a pellet insert as well. I think the carpet would be a big improvement for the cheapest solution.
https://denver.craigslist.org/atq/d/littleton-gently-used-carpet-tile/7579476482.html
I watch too many home improvement/renovation shows, and I'm fascinated with the spray foam they sometimes use, and what they do in attics. I wish we could have our house completely redone, I'm sure it would make a big difference. Not that it's cold & uncomfortable now, but could stand some improvements.
First, electric heaters are 100% efficient. Meaning you put in a watt, you get out that much heat. The best gas furnaces are above 95%.
It doesn't matter how much heat you put into a structure if it's not built well you'll have cold spots.
If you have original doors it's time to replace the whole damned thing with a fiberglass pre hung without windows. Redoing the weather stripping is a bandaid when the door itself bleeds heat. It will help immediately but the r value of the door still sucks. Kerf in is the best weather strip I've found. Dont forget to replace the sweep.
When I did thermal audits doors and windows were the first things to check along with attic insulation. Your description of the structure is basically drafty and cold. Modern materials and energy star techniques are the solution.
A lot of people dont realize it's often more efficient to strip the old cheap siding off the home, insulate the exterior walls from the outside, spray foam the penetrations, properly vapor barrier the wrap (this will also help with water intrusion if done right) and then add an insulating siding back onto the exterior (this breaks the thermal bridge too). If you're willing to do the work you can do it all for the price if paying someone to paint the exterior, prices being what they are. You can do this in sprints, one facette at a time.
My advice usually fell on deaf ears and people added blown in to the attic. Because r35 in the attic is what the internet says. Nevermind the r4 walls.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=concrete+insulation&sprefix=concrete+insu%2Caps%2C100&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_7_13
Think any of these products would work well on the tile and under some carpet squares? Sadly nothing out here rural on nearby CL/marketplace.
First, electric heaters are 100% efficient. Meaning you put in a watt, you get out that much heat. The best gas furnaces are above 95%.
It doesn't matter how much heat you put into a structure if it's not built well you'll have cold spots.
If you have original doors it's time to replace the whole damned thing with a fiberglass pre hung without windows. Redoing the weather stripping is a bandaid when the door itself bleeds heat. It will help immediately but the r value of the door still sucks. Kerf in is the best weather strip I've found. Dont forget to replace the sweep.
When I did thermal audits doors and windows were the first things to check along with attic insulation. Your description of the structure is basically drafty and cold. Modern materials and energy star techniques are the solution.
A lot of people dont realize it's often more efficient to strip the old cheap siding off the home, insulate the exterior walls from the outside, spray foam the penetrations, properly vapor barrier the wrap (this will also help with water intrusion if done right) and then add an insulating siding back onto the exterior (this breaks the thermal bridge too). If you're willing to do the work you can do it all for the price if paying someone to paint the exterior, prices being what they are. You can do this in sprints, one facette at a time.
My advice usually fell on deaf ears and people added blown in to the attic. Because r35 in the attic is what the internet says. Nevermind the r4 walls.
https://www.redfin.com/OK/Pryor/707-SW-499-Dr-74361/home/82810949
Here's the house, the tiled room they did an incredible job of hiding the issues. (You actually can see in the paint where the old garage door opener was mounted in person lol plus the crazy slant)
If I had a better room for the parrots, I'd move them and just seal this room up except for when dogs going in/out and I'm actually at my desk (rare anymore)
Need a good way to batch upload the physical photo's we found.
I'll bet that double door off the master is a leaker, they almost all are. The front door is unlikely to be original, what is it made of?
First glaring issue is the hvac installation was not updated during the remodel. The vents are space way too far from the exterior walls. Replacing the multi directional vents with a directional that blows towards the exterior wall would be one helpful option. I imagine theres large cold spots in front of every window. It also doesn't take into account how they remodeled to open concept. I'd wager the whole thing is undersized without adding in the sf for the enclosed garage. It's clearly been flipped and staged by a professional in the sales side.
As far as the converted garage if I'm following the floorplan it's the small part of the L and looks to have been done later, the dogs will love it in the summer. You'll have a hard time putting anything over the tile due to the door sweep clearance to the exterior being so low. That room for all practical purposes is it's own structure. It was unlikely that they would have insulated all of it, as I'd put even money on it was partially sheet rocked prior to the flip and they just finished it up. Rugs will certainly help. So will buying a nice pair of slippers.
First thing I would do is get a cheap fiber optic camera that will go to your phone or computer and remove the outlet plates, run the camera between the box and the sheetrock into the stud cavity and visually inspect for insulation. This will cost less than $20. I would hand sketches of the house and notes to indicate where had insulation issues.
You sort of need to know what you're dealing with in order to triage the next steps. You could rent buy or borrow a thermal camera if you want to get real into it. Winter is the best time for this to show.
Basically you start by fixing drafts then add insulation to the low hanging fruit. After that, get out your check book.
When I did thermal audits doors and windows were the first things to check along with attic insulation. Your description of the structure is basically drafty and cold. Modern materials and energy star techniques are the solution.
Wulf, I'm enjoying your advice and paying attention. My good friend also did thermal audits and remedial work to homes all around the Denver area. I try to pick his brain every chance I get.
I'm currently working on adding insulation to two not-quite-finished 1960's homes, including doing a complete bedroom remodel in the cabin where we live. (Right now, we're sleeping in the living room) Paneling is coming off to replace with drywall so all electrical and insulation will be upgraded. I expect to replace the original not so well installed R-13 with R-15 fiberglass. I can reuse and double the R13 in some R-26 spaces.
I have an abundance of good roll foil insulation to staple to the 2x4 exterior facing walls inside the bedroom. Then I'll furr it out with 1x2 to create an air space before installing the drywall. Not sure how much it will add but any little bit has to help in our cold mountain location.
Thirty years ago I did this in my Palisade home on 2x6 framing and used 1 inch galvanized steel furring strips before installing the drywall. It created something of a double envelope with true 8 inch walls. The exterior has Tyvek and steel siding.
My grandfather said that a man should never have a finished home. There's always more to do to improve.
Step 1: buy a thermal scope
Step 2: ???
Step 3: profit!
Actually, I just want to subscribe for ideas.
Also, on cold days I can see the 2x4s in my walls with an older FLIR handheld.
https://www.redfin.com/OK/Pryor/707-SW-499-Dr-74361/home/82810949
Here's the house, the tiled room they did an incredible job of hiding the issues. (You actually can see in the paint where the old garage door opener was mounted in person lol plus the crazy slant)
If I had a better room for the parrots, I'd move them and just seal this room up except for when dogs going in/out and I'm actually at my desk (rare anymore)
Need a good way to batch upload the physical photo's we found.
Nice looking place, I hope you get it tuned up the way you want it. I'm SOOOOO jealous of that shop building and the acreage! I'd have died and gone to heaven.....I might have to enlarge that fishin' hole though.
Nice looking place, I hope you get it tuned up the way you want it. I'm SOOOOO jealous of that shop building and the acreage! I'd have died and gone to heaven.....I might have to enlarge that fishin' hole though.
Ya, less fishing and more ample amounts of frog and crawdad. And allegedly neighbor says snappers come thru.
Step 1: buy a thermal scope
Step 2: ???
Step 3: profit!
Actually, I just want to subscribe for ideas.
Also, on cold days I can see the 2x4s in my walls with an older FLIR handheld.
I have a flir breach for work stuff...
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