Please, no...

[.455_Hunter]

https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/state-lawmaker-motorcycle-lane-splitting-colorado/73-11432da3-485c-452e-9ce0-1a4917f087b1

How many more dumbass ideas do we have to try here? [facepalm]

This time, it's an R promoting stupid crap.

Lane splitting is one of the most self-serving, "who cares about anybody else on the road" agendas in existence. Just because you and your bike are "hot" is not justified validation. I had the pleasure of first being on the receiving end of this novel parlor trick on I-5 in San Diego- Plenty of idiots playing thread the needle.

I am sure some of you folks thinks it's a great idea, but I ain't one of y'all.

[bellavite1]

Where I am from it's SOP.
Maybe people will be more alert rather than driving in a daze...

[.455_Hunter]

Where I am from it's SOP.
Maybe people will be more alert rather than driving in a daze...


I guess my retort would be that the motorcyclists need to realize they are not special snowflakes and can exist in the slow-moving traffic jam like everyone else. If it's a problem for you or your bike, then you should have planned a different route or used a different form of transportation. Boo hoo.

[BPTactical]

Stoned assed drivers staring at their cellphones and lane splitters.
What could go wrong?

[bellavite1]

I guess my retort would be that the motorcyclists need to realize they are not special snowflakes and can exist in the slow-moving traffic jam like everyone else. If it's a problem for you or your bike, then you should have planned a different route or used a different form of transportation. Boo hoo.

Why should they stay stuck in a traffic jam if they can move between cars?
What are they taking away from you?
Live and let live.

[Scanker19]

See because when motorcyclists say “share the road” what they really mean is, “go fuck yourself. We have an expectation of doing our own rules, while you have to Maintain your rules and our rules, and if YOU fuck up either our rules or your rules, we’ll sue you because even though you looked twice and our loud pipes saves lives, you still weren’t expecting a vehicles driving down the painted line that you as a automobile driver have been taught since day one, shouldn’t be driving down.”
I think that’s what that bromide means.
Using motorcycle logic, I can drive My dope-ass Kia Forte anywhere that it can fit as long it’s an expression of convenience for myself.

[ray1970]

It?s kind of like legalizing pot. People are doing it anyways so why not make it legal?

One more step to making Colorado exactly like California.

[ray1970]

On a side note, I guess I?ll need a skinnier bike. Not sure my bagger would even fit between cars around here.

[.455_Hunter]

Why should they stay stuck in a traffic jam if they can move between cars?
What are they taking away from you?
Live and let live.


Three reasons:

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. It's like saying people can just drive on the shoulders if they feel like it- they fit, it's part of the road, so what's the problem?

In moving traffic, lane splitters can absolutely cause an instinctive startle and stealing wheel jerk response in drivers they are passing in an unexpected manner. A normal passing vehicle is not blowing by 3 inches from your mirror.

And yes, my personal opinion that such behavior is really no different than the "rules for thee, but not for me crowd" that seems to permeate society today, whether it's John Kerry's hypocrisy or the methheads "camping" in your local park.

Sorry, but I am not a fan.

[TEAMRICO]

Why should they stay stuck in a traffic jam if they can move between cars?
What are they taking away from you?
Live and let live.

It?s not my responsibility to get you where you are going by letting you do what you want on the road.
My observation of MC riders is that they are the most careless and reckless ones on the road because they think we should be looking out for them. You are not my responsibility once again. It?s a courtesy and I don’t t make it my sole purpose to clear the roads for MC’s out there.
Live and let live? Sure, you have greater chance of not making it home that night.
This is bullshit and they need to follow the same laws and rule we have to.
Don?t start me on bicycles and the same behavior.

[sbgixxer]

People think of the dude doing 60, splitting lanes when traffic is at 15. Yes, that guy is dumb and given the time, it'll bite him. Where it really makes our existence safer is when coming to a red light. Instead of waiting behind a car and watching your mirrors until the person behind you finally looks up from their cell phone and screeches to a halt behind you, you can split traffic right to the red light. Then when green, you're gone and on your own.

[WETWRKS]

Let's see...just this week I watched a motorcyclist doing wheelies headed north on Sheridan. Cars lined up waiting on him.

In the last few years I was boxed in by motorcyclists so they could control everyone on I25 so their car buddies could street race. Estimating something around 100 cars racing by me at extreme speeds. And Northglenn cops refused to even try and do anything about it.

At this point I pretty well hate anyone doing this shit. You want to be stupid...great...go somewhere where you won't kill a mess of people around you when you screw up.

[BushMasterBoy]

What do medical professionals call motorcyclists? Organ donors...

[hollohas]

People think of the dude doing 60, splitting lanes when traffic is at 15. Yes, that guy is dumb and given the time, it'll bite him. Where it really makes our existence safer is when coming to a red light. Instead of waiting behind a car and watching your mirrors until the person behind you finally looks up from their cell phone and screeches to a halt behind you, you can split traffic right to the red light. Then when green, you're gone and on your own.

That's called filtering and is an entirely different thing. Any biker that sits at red lights constantly worried that someone is going to rear end him needs new hobby, he's too scared for this one.

Lane splitting on the other hand allows motorcycles to ride between moving cars for no other reason than they want to ride faster than the current speed of traffic. They're not special just because their vehicle is smaller.

The analogy about letting cars use the shoulder is a good one. Why shouldn't a small car be able to pass between wide lanes of moving traffic too? It'd be the same as motorcycle lane splitting, Right?

Lanes are there for a reason. To maintain the order of traffic and give some amount of predictability which increases safety. As soon as you allow people to ignore the lanes, that predictable traffic movement is gone, decreasing safety for everyone.

I've sat on an air cooled bike in triple digits in slow moving traffic..it sucks. But I've also lived in CA for two years and saw enough impatient bikers cause accidents while lane splitting to know maintaining lanes is the better way to go.

If bikers don't like being hot, or or going with the flow of traffic because they're bored or because they simply aren't good enough on a bike to go slow, they need more practice or a new vehicle, not a new law.

[Martinjmpr]

41 year motorcycle rider here with 2 bikes in the garage and I have to say I'm not a fan of lane splitting.

On motorcycle forums and pages it's an article of faith that lane splitting is "safer" and beneficial to traffic but I don't buy it.

In Europe where cars and trucks are tiny and skinny it might work. In the US where cars and trucks can be 6' wide or more it seems like more trouble than it's worth.

Also I don't go along with the "biker/victim" mentality either. Yes there are careless/inattentive drivers out there but everybody has to deal with them, that's just a fact of life. Most motorcycle accidents are avoidable by the rider even if they are technically the driver's "fault." And of course single-bike accidents (which seem to peak in early August in South Dakota) are 100% the rider's fault.

Don't even get me started on "loud pipes save lives." :rolleyes:

[UncleDave]

I have been riding for 30+ years, in many state including ones that allow lane splitting. On an air-cooled bike, it is necessary in hot climates. Your bike will overheat and be damaged if you are sitting without air moving over the fins. I took hate the look out for me attitude of some riders. I was taught to treat all cage drivers as if they are personally out to kill me. Incidentally, my old man told me the same about driving a car. One thing that drives me nuts is that most don't understand that under lane splitting laws you are limited to 25mph in most states. They are only for stopped traffic and for 2 bikes to be able to ride abreast legally. If you are a safe rider you will ride safe no matter the law. If you are a reckless jackass, you will be that. No matter the law.

[bellavite1]

I have been riding for 30+ years, in many state including ones that allow lane splitting. On an air-cooled bike, it is necessary in hot climates. Your bike will overheat and be damaged if you are sitting without air moving over the fins. I took hate the look out for me attitude of some riders. I was taught to treat all cage drivers as if they are personally out to kill me. Incidentally, my old man told me the same about driving a car. One thing that drives me nuts is that most don't understand that under lane splitting laws you are limited to 25mph in most states. They are only for stopped traffic and for 2 bikes to be able to ride abreast legally. If you are a safe rider you will ride safe no matter the law. If you are a reckless jackass, you will be that. No matter the law.

Nicely said.

[leightoncash]

The only lane splitting I ever see is the type where I'm on the highway and a motorcycle slides through going WAY faster than everyone else, and there is no way in hell anyone is prepared for it or saw it coming in their rear view mirror. That rider is operating on blind faith that no one will decide to change lanes or even wander in their lane. I don't want to live with a motorcyclist having gone under my truck to kill kimself, and I don't want to see anyone dying mangled on the road. I think I get the mentality of those riders, it's not all that different from the other extreme sports. But I really don't want to be around when things go wrong for the rider. That shit is traumatizing I'm sure. By buddy was a crazy rider, he rode crazy fast while drunk and high, and would say that when he died, it will be on his bike because of the way he rode. Well sure enough, he did die passing on a blind corner a couple years ago. Laid it down into an oncoming car and those poor people in that car have to live with the memory of that for the rest of their lives.

[clodhopper]

How about a law allowing motorcycles to use the "bike" lane. Imagine the fireworks.....

[HBARleatherneck]

The only time I "lane split" was in the Marine Corps living in Southern California. Thanks to the illegals there were border checkpoints on Interstate 5 and Interstate 15. Sometimes the backup could be for miles. If you slowly made your way up the line and flipped the visor on your helmet, they would wave you through. Saving a lot of time. All of my bikes had a DOD sticker so they could see the sticker and that I wasnt an illiegal. Otherwise I did not partake in the fun.

[eddiememphis]

I have been riding on the street for about 30 years. 150k or so miles. When I lived in Seattle, a Suzuki 550 was my only transportation.

I wear gear every ride- dress for the crash, not for the ride. I don't do wheelies. I don't dress like a pirate and go to the bar.

The key to safely riding is awareness. As stated above, ride like everyone is out to kill you. It doesn't matter how good of a rider you are, physics dictates in a collision with any car, the car will win.

Graveyards are full of bikers that had the right of way.

I have limited my in-town riding over the past decade or so due to the ubiquity of cell phones. I drove a 4000 pound truck and often feel unsafe in traffic. On a 400 pound BMW it can be terrifying.

Many people do not like riders, as evidenced by some comments above. The hooligan crowd, the loud pipes guys and others portray a selfish image that creates a negative image in many- including myself.

I ride quiet bikes. I was in a neighborhood and a little boy saw me coming and stuck his fingers in his ears. I felt bad for that kid. When I was his age, I would run up to motorcycles, not fear them.

That is my unnecessarily long winded way of saying lane splitting is a bad idea.

It will further the notion that riders are ego driven fools that have no respect for anyone else.

It is dangerous for the rider since many in traffic are angry and watching a motorcycle ride between cars can be a trigger for action.

Often times drivers will narrow the gap to stop the rider. There is always the prospect of winning a "door prize", or having a beverage or worse tossed at them.

[eddiememphis]

Weinberg is only proposing a study be made. He has not put forth any legislation allowing it.

[.455_Hunter]

Weinberg is only proposing a study be made. He has not put forth any legislation allowing it.


True, but his opinion on the matter is clear in the first sentence of the article...


If Rep. Ron Weinberg, R-Loveland, gets his way, motorcyclists would be allowed to weave between cars in traffic.

[sbgixxer]

That's called filtering and is an entirely different thing. Any biker that sits at red lights constantly worried that someone is going to rear end him needs new hobby, he's too scared for this one.

Call it whatever you want, it's all handled under, "lane splitting".

It's not about being too "scared", you take the bad with the good. That's my least favorite part of riding, I'd like to limit it and this law would do that. Living in Easter CA, you might want to prepare yourself for the, "decrease in safety". [Beer]

[theGinsue]

https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/state-lawmaker-motorcycle-lane-splitting-colorado/73-11432da3-485c-452e-9ce0-1a4917f087b1

How many more dumbass ideas do we have to try here? [facepalm]

This time, it's an R promoting stupid crap.

Lane splitting is one of the most self-serving, "who cares about anybody else on the road" agendas in existence. Just because you and your bike are "hot" is not justified validation. I had the pleasure of first being on the receiving end of this novel parlor trick on I-5 in San Diego- Plenty of idiots playing thread the needle.

I am sure some of you folks thinks it's a great idea, but I ain't one of y'all.


Why should they stay stuck in a traffic jam if they can move between cars?
What are they taking away from you?
Live and let live.


On a side note, I guess I?ll need a skinnier bike. Not sure my bagger would even fit between cars around here.


People think of the dude doing 60, splitting lanes when traffic is at 15. Yes, that guy is dumb and given the time, it'll bite him. Where it really makes our existence safer is when coming to a red light. Instead of waiting behind a car and watching your mirrors until the person behind you finally looks up from their cell phone and screeches to a halt behind you, you can split traffic right to the red light. Then when green, you're gone and on your own.


I rode for over 20 years and finally stopped after my first street bike wreck.

I rode an air cooled bike in 100+ degree temps in the Midwest, dealing with traffic and never had a problem with overheating, ever. Granted, the traffic I was in was not highway backlogs like L.A. or even I-25 on the weekends when there's an accident or a major event going on somewhere, but standard side streets.

I learned to ride with respect for my own safety as well as the safety of others on the road. And while the bulk of motorcyclists on the road still ride like this, I'm seeing an increasing degree of outright dangerous behavior from motorcyclists. Just in the last 2 months (yeah, during the winter when motorcyclists are fewer than in the warmer months) I can't count the number of motorcyclists I've watched zipping in and out of extremely narrow gaps of traffic. In this same period I've watched 2 occasions where a cyclist rode wheelies for 1/2 mile+ in semi-congested (yet good moving) traffic. About a month ago I watched a rider on a fairly new beautiful fully dressed Harley stand up on the seat of his bike and ride it like that for more than 1/4 mile in light to moderate traffic. In each of these cases there was ZERO consideration for others on the road. If folks will do these clearly illegal things without consideration for others, what can we expect from someone who feels entitled to lane split?

A few years back the outgoing Colo Spr city street architect bragged that her major accomplishment while in that position was narrowing the lanes in town to reduce speeding. Since then I regularly look at the width of Colo Spr streets. Just a couple of weeks ago I was sitting behind a 250/2500 series pickup and noted that their mirrors reached the inner edge of both lines for their lane. The lanes are too narrow for the cars/trucks that use them without having to consider that a motorcyclist might want to squeeze through to get a better position through the traffic. The narrowness of the lanes makes it so any minor inattentiveness will cause a driver to at least be on the lane line. Any they want to allow a motorcyclist to try to squeeze through? How many broken mirrors will result from this when cyclists feel their right to lane split was being violated by the uncaring car/truck drivers? (I won't touch on how the small motorcycle license plates, when you can see them at all, are impossible to read as a motorcycle zooms past).

Over 80% of the drivers on the road pull far too close to the vehicles in front of them when stopped in traffic (and while in motion). My daily driver is an F250 Super Duty. I like to "shit & get" and prefer not to have to sit behind a row of traffic waiting at a light any more than the next person. I don't want my vehicle smashed into from behind any more than anyone else either. Why can't I just force my way between lanes of traffic to get up to the front of the traffic to be the first to go when the light changes? I guarantee that once the light changes I'll move as quickly as I can to pull away from the traffic to reduce my chances of being in an accident by some unwitting driver. So what if I'm better protected in my truck than a motorcyclist - we both made the choice of what vehicle to get onto the roads with that day & I don't want to sit in traffic any more than they do, so...

Thing is, everyone on the road - including motorcyclist (and bicyclists!)- need to follow the same rules of the road for EVERYONE'S safety. If we're all obligated to the same rules we have a better understanding of what to expect and how to avoid an accident. When you start making exceptions for this group or the other the expectations quickly change and the probability of hazardous situations jumps dramatically.

At the end of the day, I couldn't give a rats ass about someone doing something stupid on the road and getting themselves toasted for it (that's for them and their families to deal with) - until it effects me and my family. Then, I have serious issues with it. So, no, in case you couldn't tell, I'm absolutely NOT in favor of lane splitting.

[brutal]

I haven't ridden on the street in many years. last I owned a 2-wheeler was 1987, ridden daily to work weather permitting for about 3 years.

My stance is the only lane-splitting allowed should be on surface streets at red lights. Period.

[copfish]

Gives both the Strong Arm and Donor Alliance (https://www.donoralliance.org)more business!

[def90]

I'm a pretty attentive driver and scan my mirrors all the time in traffic so that I can make a quick lane change if needed yet I've been completely surprised by lane splitters while driving out in LA that I had no idea were there until they were right next to me.

I get it, maybe let them do it but at the same time put the onus for wrecks on them.

[FoxtArt]

I second that....

It should be legal.

Only if there's an affirmative defense for anyone involved in an accident with a lane splitter protecting the other party(s) from civil and criminal ramifications.

I'm completely OK with more freedom. I used to ride as well and I did safely lane split in states that permitted it. Not as big of a deal as it was made out to be.

YET in our current society which idolizes victims, it needs to be a clear social contract, that a rider is aware of the dangers associated and takes personal responsibility for the outcome. E.G. Momma can't sue cause their sweet baby boy died while doing a wheely lane-splitting and going 30mph over traffic flow. Mr. Paralyzed for life is going to have to figure out his own shit because nobody else is going to be paying for it. Thats how it SHOULD work.

[eddiememphis]

Thats how it SHOULD work.

93013

That's how it actually works...

[Hummer]

I second that....

It should be legal.

Only if there's an affirmative defense for anyone involved in an accident with a lane splitter protecting the other party(s) from civil and criminal ramifications.

I'm completely OK with more freedom. I used to ride as well and I did safely lane split in states that permitted it. Not as big of a deal as it was made out to be.

YET in our current society which idolizes victims, it needs to be a clear social contract, that a rider is aware of the dangers associated and takes personal responsibility for the outcome. E.G. Momma can't sue cause their sweet baby boy died while doing a wheely lane-splitting and going 30mph over traffic flow. Mr. Paralyzed for life is going to have to figure out his own shit because nobody else is going to be paying for it. Thats how it SHOULD work.


If it were to pass, in the end society as a whole will take care of Mr. Paralyzed. And it's all on the politicians who pass legislation without consideration of the consequences, financial and otherwise. If only taxpayers could collect damages from the pols.

[Hummer]

I rode for over 20 years and finally stopped after my first street bike wreck.

I rode an air cooled bike in 100+ degree temps in the Midwest, dealing with traffic and never had a problem with overheating, ever. Granted, the traffic I was in was not highway backlogs like L.A. or even I-25 on the weekends when there's an accident or a major event going on somewhere, but standard side streets.

I learned to ride with respect for my own safety as well as the safety of others on the road. And while the bulk of motorcyclists on the road still ride like this, I'm seeing an increasing degree of outright dangerous behavior from motorcyclists. Just in the last 2 months (yeah, during the winter when motorcyclists are fewer than in the warmer months) I can't count the number of motorcyclists I've watched zipping in and out of extremely narrow gaps of traffic. In this same period I've watched 2 occasions where a cyclist rode wheelies for 1/2 mile+ in semi-congested (yet good moving) traffic. About a month ago I watched a rider on a fairly new beautiful fully dressed Harley stand up on the seat of his bike and ride it like that for more than 1/4 mile in light to moderate traffic. In each of these cases there was ZERO consideration for others on the road. If folks will do these clearly illegal things without consideration for others, what can we expect from someone who feels entitled to lane split?

A few years back the outgoing Colo Spr city street architect bragged that her major accomplishment while in that position was narrowing the lanes in town to reduce speeding. Since then I regularly look at the width of Colo Spr streets. Just a couple of weeks ago I was sitting behind a 250/2500 series pickup and noted that their mirrors reached the inner edge of both lines for their lane. The lanes are too narrow for the cars/trucks that use them without having to consider that a motorcyclist might want to squeeze through to get a better position through the traffic. The narrowness of the lanes makes it so any minor inattentiveness will cause a driver to at least be on the lane line. Any they want to allow a motorcyclist to try to squeeze through? How many broken mirrors will result from this when cyclists feel their right to lane split was being violated by the uncaring car/truck drivers? (I won't touch on how the small motorcycle license plates, when you can see them at all, are impossible to read as a motorcycle zooms past).

Over 80% of the drivers on the road pull far too close to the vehicles in front of them when stopped in traffic (and while in motion). My daily driver is an F250 Super Duty. I like to "shit & get" and prefer not to have to sit behind a row of traffic waiting at a light any more than the next person. I don't want my vehicle smashed into from behind any more than anyone else either. Why can't I just force my way between lanes of traffic to get up to the front of the traffic to be the first to go when the light changes? I guarantee that once the light changes I'll move as quickly as I can to pull away from the traffic to reduce my chances of being in an accident by some unwitting driver. So what if I'm better protected in my truck than a motorcyclist - we both made the choice of what vehicle to get onto the roads with that day & I don't want to sit in traffic any more than they do, so...

Thing is, everyone on the road - including motorcyclist (and bicyclists!)- need to follow the same rules of the road for EVERYONE'S safety. If we're all obligated to the same rules we have a better understanding of what to expect and how to avoid an accident. When you start making exceptions for this group or the other the expectations quickly change and the probability of hazardous situations jumps dramatically.

At the end of the day, I couldn't give a rats ass about someone doing something stupid on the road and getting themselves toasted for it (that's for them and their families to deal with) - until it effects me and my family. Then, I have serious issues with it. So, no, in case you couldn't tell, I'm absolutely NOT in favor of lane splitting.



Ginsue, you should print and send that to State Rep. Ron Weinberg.

Fwiw, I've ridden extensively, commuted from the mountains through Denver-Boulder traffic, to Brush and Ft. Morgan, and traveled all across the west including the Alaska Highway to the Arctic Circle. I'm not a motorcycle hater but I hate the lane splitting BS. Promoting it is stupid beyond words, IMO.

[arbol]

Lane splitting is incredibly risky.

It should be very illegal.

-John

[arbol]

With that said, I do it occasionally, when it makes sense to me. Mainly at stop lights or traffic jams.

-John

[arbol]

Advantage of being on a bike.

[00tec]

With that said, I do it occasionally, when it makes sense to me. Mainly at stop lights or traffic jams.

-John

We already know you like breaking traffic laws

[arbol]

We already know you like breaking traffic laws

Not dead yet.

-John

[BushMasterBoy]

When I have the freeway to my self, I like to do 165MPH. On a Kawasaki KH500 burning nitro in to expansion chambers.
Lane splitting, no...

[Great-Kazoo]

That's called filtering and is an entirely different thing. Any biker that sits at red lights constantly worried that someone is going to rear end him needs new hobby, he's too scared for this one.



.

IF i counted how many personal friends i know who were rear ended at a light, or stop sign. Sitting at the exit of a parking lot, etc i could name 12. 5 of them were fatalities, the others, 1 still wears a colotomy bag, the rest have various issues.

Granted that's over a period of years, still it's a fact.

Too scared, hardly.

[theGinsue]

Ginsue, you should print and send that to State Rep. Ron Weinberg.

Great advice. Done!

[wctriumph]

Still riding on road for 52 years, in 20 plus states, Canada, Mexico and the UK. Grew up in So Cal and lane splitting was a way of life. It is safer for motorcyclists except for asshole cagers that intentionally cut off, ram and otherwise purposely intend with full malice to cause harm to another human being.

There are morons EVERYWHERE wether on two wheels or four. Be aware of your surroundings and have a little courtesy when driving and less people will be injured or killed. Road rage is simply stupid, especially for the perceived slight that someone is taking cuts in line. It doesn’t do you any harm to give a motorcycle a little bit more room on the highway. Same for the bicycle rider on the road. No reason for anyone using our highways to be so aggressive and stupid towards another person on the road.

Leave early, be aware, be patient, be kind and stop insisting on the right of way.

[ray1970]

Still riding on road for 52 years, in 20 plus states, Canada, Mexico and the UK. Grew up in So Cal and lane splitting was a way of life. It is safer for motorcyclists except for asshole cagers that intentionally cut off, ram and otherwise purposely intend with full malice to cause harm to another human being.

There are morons EVERYWHERE wether on two wheels or four. Be aware of your surroundings and have a little courtesy when driving and less people will be injured or killed. Road rage is simply stupid, especially for the perceived slight that someone is taking cuts in line. It doesn?t do you any harm to give a motorcycle a little bit more room on the highway. Same for the bicycle rider on the road. No reason for anyone using our highways to be so aggressive and stupid towards another person on the road.

Leave early, be aware, be patient, be kind and stop insisting on the right of way.

Like.

As bad as the traffic is along the front range it could be so much better if everyone would calm down, leave a little space, and maybe show a little courtesy. Everyone in the roads is trying to get somewhere and if they all worked together instead of making it some sort of competition then everyone would be better off.

[.455_Hunter]

I would absolutely argue that "common courtesy" and "leaving space" would NOT encompass trying to jam your motorcycle between other drivers in heavy traffic. Pretend you are a car, stay in the existing lanes, and be respectful of everybody else on the road.

[ray1970]

I would absolutely argue that "common courtesy" and "leaving space" would NOT encompass trying to jam your motorcycle between other drivers in heavy traffic. Pretend you are a car, stay in the existing lanes, and be respectful of everybody else on the road.

Ah. But would there even be heavy traffic if everyone was courteous and left space?

[.455_Hunter]

Ah. But would there even be heavy traffic if everyone was courteous and left space?

Yes, there would still be heavy traffic.

[def90]

I would think if they just said it was ok to drive on the shoulder in certain traffic conditions all would be good.

[Grant H.]

I rode for over 20 years and finally stopped after my first street bike wreck.

I rode an air cooled bike in 100+ degree temps in the Midwest, dealing with traffic and never had a problem with overheating, ever. Granted, the traffic I was in was not highway backlogs like L.A. or even I-25 on the weekends when there's an accident or a major event going on somewhere, but standard side streets.

I learned to ride with respect for my own safety as well as the safety of others on the road. And while the bulk of motorcyclists on the road still ride like this, I'm seeing an increasing degree of outright dangerous behavior from motorcyclists. Just in the last 2 months (yeah, during the winter when motorcyclists are fewer than in the warmer months) I can't count the number of motorcyclists I've watched zipping in and out of extremely narrow gaps of traffic. In this same period I've watched 2 occasions where a cyclist rode wheelies for 1/2 mile+ in semi-congested (yet good moving) traffic. About a month ago I watched a rider on a fairly new beautiful fully dressed Harley stand up on the seat of his bike and ride it like that for more than 1/4 mile in light to moderate traffic. In each of these cases there was ZERO consideration for others on the road. If folks will do these clearly illegal things without consideration for others, what can we expect from someone who feels entitled to lane split?

A few years back the outgoing Colo Spr city street architect bragged that her major accomplishment while in that position was narrowing the lanes in town to reduce speeding. Since then I regularly look at the width of Colo Spr streets. Just a couple of weeks ago I was sitting behind a 250/2500 series pickup and noted that their mirrors reached the inner edge of both lines for their lane. The lanes are too narrow for the cars/trucks that use them without having to consider that a motorcyclist might want to squeeze through to get a better position through the traffic. The narrowness of the lanes makes it so any minor inattentiveness will cause a driver to at least be on the lane line. Any they want to allow a motorcyclist to try to squeeze through? How many broken mirrors will result from this when cyclists feel their right to lane split was being violated by the uncaring car/truck drivers? (I won't touch on how the small motorcycle license plates, when you can see them at all, are impossible to read as a motorcycle zooms past).

Over 80% of the drivers on the road pull far too close to the vehicles in front of them when stopped in traffic (and while in motion). My daily driver is an F250 Super Duty. I like to "shit & get" and prefer not to have to sit behind a row of traffic waiting at a light any more than the next person. I don't want my vehicle smashed into from behind any more than anyone else either. Why can't I just force my way between lanes of traffic to get up to the front of the traffic to be the first to go when the light changes? I guarantee that once the light changes I'll move as quickly as I can to pull away from the traffic to reduce my chances of being in an accident by some unwitting driver. So what if I'm better protected in my truck than a motorcyclist - we both made the choice of what vehicle to get onto the roads with that day & I don't want to sit in traffic any more than they do, so...

Thing is, everyone on the road - including motorcyclist (and bicyclists!)- need to follow the same rules of the road for EVERYONE'S safety. If we're all obligated to the same rules we have a better understanding of what to expect and how to avoid an accident. When you start making exceptions for this group or the other the expectations quickly change and the probability of hazardous situations jumps dramatically.

At the end of the day, I couldn't give a rats ass about someone doing something stupid on the road and getting themselves toasted for it (that's for them and their families to deal with) - until it effects me and my family. Then, I have serious issues with it. So, no, in case you couldn't tell, I'm absolutely NOT in favor of lane splitting.

Specific to the quote
While your example of COSPGS streets sounds good, logically it falls apart if you have ever been to Asia or many other foreign countries... Their lanes are narrower than USA, their drivers don't give a single solitary F about lane lines, and lane splitting/filtering is widely practiced/accepted. Why can't you do it in your truck if a MC can do it? Because physics is real and an F250 can't physically fit where a MC can...

Not specific to anyone in the thread...
While I ride MC's, I don't really have a dog in this fight beyond wishing filtering at red lights was allowed. It's (both splitting and filtering) nowhere near as risky as many on here believe, when done as legally allowed.

If it becomes legal, I expect a bunch of whining and moaning from car drivers (apparently many on here) about the "unfairness" of it all, as they still have to sit in traffic while MC's can filter/split etc... Boo hoo... Life ain't fair...
If it stays illegal, sweet. Doesn't matter to me. I don't lane split, and I don't waste my time slabbing on interstates on a MC. I'll still just pass whatever is in the way and go about my own business.

[.455_Hunter]

If it becomes legal, I expect a bunch of whining and moaning from car drivers (apparently many on here) about the "unfairness" of it all, as they still have to sit in traffic while MC's can filter/split etc... Boo hoo... Life ain't fair...


Damn right- The is plenty of stupid crap I could do with my vehicles in traffic, but I don't, because I try to NOT be an asshat in public.

[theGinsue]

Specific to the quote
While your example of COSPGS streets sounds good, logically it falls apart if you have ever been to Asia or many other foreign countries... Their lanes are narrower than USA, their drivers don't give a single solitary F about lane lines, and lane splitting/filtering is widely practiced/accepted. Why can't you do it in your truck if a MC can do it? Because physics is real and an F250 can't physically fit where a MC can...

I've spent plenty of time in Asia (Korea & Japan) and agree that they don't pay any attention to lane lines. I recall being mystified in Korea on multiple occasions how they'd take a 3 lane road and turn it into a 5 or even 6 lane road (with cars/trucks) - and they made it work with success. But your argument falls apart by not considering that the overall mentality of Asians (in Asian countries at least) is very different than the mentality here in the U.S. Most Asia drivers I experienced, while a bit scary behind the wheel, at least paid attention to their driving while in motion and certainly weren't auditioning for a role in the next Mad Max movie as most American drivers tend to do. Comparing driving in most of the U.S. to Asia is like comparing driving in most of the U.S. to driving in Manhatten (I've done that multiple times too) - they are very different animals.

[DDT951]

I think we should start with allowing wheelies!

[DDT951]

One difference, CA requires helmets.... maybe we need to look at helmets before lane splitting...

[DDT951]

On a side note, I guess I?ll need a skinnier bike. Not sure my bagger would even fit between cars around here.

Ducati make some narrow bikes. Maybe a V4S Panigale? It is pretty narrow.

[DDT951]

It?s not my responsibility to get you where you are going by letting you do what you want on the road.
My observation of MC riders is that they are the most careless and reckless ones on the road because they think we should be looking out for them. You are not my responsibility once again. It?s a courtesy and I don?t t make it my sole purpose to clear the roads for MC?s out there.
Live and let live? Sure, you have greater chance of not making it home that night.
This is bullshit and they need to follow the same laws and rule we have to.
Don?t start me on bicycles and the same behavior.

Most of the times bicycles are blocking traffic with their slow speeds. I rarely see motorcycles holding up traffic; they normally want to go fast so the car are holding them up.

[DDT951]

41 year motorcycle rider here with 2 bikes in the garage and I have to say I'm not a fan of lane splitting.

On motorcycle forums and pages it's an article of faith that lane splitting is "safer" and beneficial to traffic but I don't buy it.

In Europe where cars and trucks are tiny and skinny it might work. In the US where cars and trucks can be 6' wide or more it seems like more trouble than it's worth.

Also I don't go along with the "biker/victim" mentality either. Yes there are careless/inattentive drivers out there but everybody has to deal with them, that's just a fact of life. Most motorcycle accidents are avoidable by the rider even if they are technically the driver's "fault." And of course single-bike accidents (which seem to peak in early August in South Dakota) are 100% the rider's fault.

Don't even get me started on "loud pipes save lives." :rolleyes:

Most motor vehicle "accidents" are not accidents. They are due to carelessness and they are collisions. Yes, there was not intent, but there was negligence. Most "accidents" are avoidable and not just motorcycles.

[DDT951]

I like to "shit & get" and prefer not to have to sit behind a row of traffic waiting at a light any more than the next person. I don't want my vehicle smashed into from behind any more than anyone else either. Why can't I just force my way between lanes of traffic to get up to the front of the traffic to be the first to go when the light changes? I guarantee that once the light changes I'll move as quickly as I can to pull away from the traffic to reduce my chances of being in an accident by some unwitting driver.


That is funny. "Shit and Get"

Officer: Why did you use launch control pulling away from that light?

Motorists: "I wanted to be safer"


That said, I actually was in line at Qdoba a year or so ago and a CSP trooper was in front. I asked him if using launch control on the street was legal.

He told me there are now laws against it. But do not exceed speed limit, you must be under control, and you cannot be racing another vehicle. But simply full on acceleration itself is not illegal as long as it is not dangerous.

[DDT951]

Specific to the quote
While your example of COSPGS streets sounds good, logically it falls apart if you have ever been to Asia or many other foreign countries... Their lanes are narrower than USA, their drivers don't give a single solitary F about lane lines, and lane splitting/filtering is widely practiced/accepted. Why can't you do it in your truck if a MC can do it? Because physics is real and an F250 can't physically fit where a MC can...

Not specific to anyone in the thread...
While I ride MC's, I don't really have a dog in this fight beyond wishing filtering at red lights was allowed. It's (both splitting and filtering) nowhere near as risky as many on here believe, when done as legally allowed.

If it becomes legal, I expect a bunch of whining and moaning from car drivers (apparently many on here) about the "unfairness" of it all, as they still have to sit in traffic while MC's can filter/split etc... Boo hoo... Life ain't fair...
If it stays illegal, sweet. Doesn't matter to me. I don't lane split, and I don't waste my time slabbing on interstates on a MC. I'll still just pass whatever is in the way and go about my own business.

I have lived in Europe where filtering at stop lights is legal. Lane splitting is semi-legal (how about not legal but tolerate most of the time). In europe the encourage filtering as they believe it is safer and moves traffic faster. In addition with the advent of catalysts on bikes, they believe m/c is a more environmentally friendly form of transport for one person as moving a 500-600 lb bike (or less) uses less fuel than a 3000+ pound car... And in densely pipulted cities parking for m/c goes much further.

When I go show up for work in Europe, I can also go 150mph on the way to work if I choose (and traffic light enough). People here would scream about how unsafe that is.

Lets just say other parts of the world and USA are different.

[UncleDave]

One difference, CA requires helmets.... maybe we need to look at helmets before lane splitting...

Lane splitting in CA predates helmet laws by about 50 or 60 years

[DDT951]

Lane splitting in CA predates helmet laws by about 50 or 60 years

I am not that old.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Most motor vehicle "accidents" are not accidents. They are due to carelessness and they are collisions. Yes, there was not intent, but there was negligence. Most "accidents" are avoidable and not just motorcycles.

In some cases, the person being careless who causes the collision isn't caught up in it. The jackasses running up between vehicles when not expected or with pipes that are deafening from 6 car lengths away through closed windows startle other drivers. Their actions splitting or filtering cause other vehicles to slow down to react safely to their antics.

As far as the overheating issue goes ... if you're dumb enough to select a vehicle that is unreliable in the conditions you chose to drive in -- whether it has 2 wheels, 4 wheels, or more -- that's on you.

[hollohas]

I've spent plenty of time in Asia (Korea & Japan) and agree that they don't pay any attention to lane lines. I recall being mystified in Korea on multiple occasions how they'd take a 3 lane road and turn it into a 5 or even 6 lane road (with cars/trucks) - and they made it work with success. But your argument falls apart by not considering that the overall mentality of Asians (in Asian countries at least) is very different than the mentality here in the U.S. Most Asia drivers I experienced, while a bit scary behind the wheel, at least paid attention to their driving while in motion and certainly weren't auditioning for a role in the next Mad Max movie as most American drivers tend to do. Comparing driving in most of the U.S. to Asia is like comparing driving in most of the U.S. to driving in Manhatten (I've done that multiple times too) - they are very different animals.

The thing about motorcycles in Asia or Europe, is driver's don't have the liability that we do here. There's rarely even a report written for most accidents in those regions.

I was traveling in Italy one night when a motorcycle ran a red light and t-boned our van. Dude went down pretty hard (his gas tank was dented on the rider side...ouch).

In any case, an ambulance appeared out of nowhere, loaded him up and drove away without a word being said by the EMTs. Absolutely zero information was shared. No names. No insurance. Nothing. They left the bike as it lay. Then a police car drove by, did a slow loop to check things out and also drove away without a word mentioned. Then another, same thing. After 45mins we moved the bike into the median and waited a bit longer. Zero additional LE arrived, so we left. When we returned the rental van we explained the damage on the rear quarter panel and rear light expecting to have to pay for it but they simply said, no problem, hope you enjoyed Italy.

They treat shit as it is. An accident is just that. Shit happens and people move on.

If we did that here, I'd reconsider my opinion.



Call it whatever you want, it's all handled under, "lane splitting".

[Beer]

I'm not calling it what I want, I'm calling it what it is. Several states allow filtering and they define the difference between filtering and splitting. Generally filtering is limited to stopped traffic on roads with a posted speed <45mph (Not highways) or single-digit speed traffic primarily at stop lights. Splitting is not permitted.

Splitting is for moving traffic. It's defined in the CA vehicle code. Guidelines say it's limited to traffic traveling <30mph and if the bike is not doing more than 10mph over the speed of traffic. In practice it's used in traffic traveling at much higher speeds than that. Splitting in traffic traveling at double-digit speeds is not legal in any state except CA.

I'd support filtering in stopped traffic on surface streets. I do not support splitting in moving traffic.

[sbgixxer]

If we lived in a society that believed in compromise, we would've reached it. I'd be cool with just "filtering" (term was new to me).

[Clint45]

Lane splitting, as I understand it, is two motorcyclists riding side by side within a lane. Sometimes large groups of motorcyclists do it. Bikers have manages to do this responsibly for many decades with very few problems. Makes them more visible, and opens up another lane to traffic... not really sure what the problem here is.

[ray1970]

Lane splitting, as I understand it, is two motorcyclists riding side by side within a lane. Sometimes large groups of motorcyclists do it. Bikers have manages to do this responsibly for many decades with very few problems. Makes them more visible, and opens up another lane to traffic... not really sure what the problem here is.

Lane splitting is riding between two lanes. More or less on the stripe. I don?t know what you are referring to is called. Maybe lane sharing?

[hollohas]

Lane splitting, as I understand it, is two motorcyclists riding side by side within a lane. Sometimes large groups of motorcyclists do it. Bikers have manages to do this responsibly for many decades with very few problems. Makes them more visible, and opens up another lane to traffic... not really sure what the problem here is.Nope.

Colorado law allows motorcycles to ride "two abreast". CRS 43-4-1503 (1,4). That's not splitting.

CRS 43-4-1503 (3) currently states "A person shall not operate a motorcycle between lanes of traffic or between adjacent lines or rows of vehicles". That's the section they're going to study for possible revision.

HB23-1059 summary: "Under current law, the driver of a motorcycle is prohibited from overtaking or passing a motor vehicle by driving in the same lane as the motor vehicle or between rows of motor vehicles, a practice known as 'lane splitting'. "

[hollohas]

An interesting note about all of this. In CA, lane splitting has basically always been a thing because it wasn't illegal. There was nothing in the code mentioning it at all. Then, some time I think less than 10 years ago, CHP tried to issue some guidelines regarding lane splitting to help make it safer. People said, oh no you didn't CHP, you can't issue guidelines for something that's not a law. So then CA passed a law allowing lane splitting by actual CA Vehicle Code.

It has always been legal in CA by default because it wasn't illegal. Being CA, that wasn't good enough for them. They had to make a law allowing it... because we can't let people do things on their own, the gov must permit it first.

[arbol]

The land of the free when the government says it is legal.

-John

[arbol]

The land of the very permissive government.

-John

[arbol]

The land where you just have to say, "please?"

-John

[brutal]

That is funny. "Shit and Get"

Officer: Why did you use launch control pulling away from that light?

Motorists: "I wanted to be safer"


That said, I actually was in line at Qdoba a year or so ago and a CSP trooper was in front. I asked him if using launch control on the street was legal.

He told me there are now laws against it. But do not exceed speed limit, you must be under control, and you cannot be racing another vehicle. But simply full on acceleration itself is not illegal as long as it is not dangerous.

I had an MP pull me over on my bike on Ft. Riley and told me he could cite me for "show of speed." Apparently, there are many states/jurisdictions that show of speed, or "Exhibition of speed' is a violation. Seems rather subjective.

[ray1970]

I had an MP pull me over on my bike on Ft. Riley and told me he could cite me for "show of speed." Apparently, there are many states/jurisdictions that show of speed, or "Exhibition of speed' is a violation. Seems rather subjective.

Back in my youth I got tickets for excessive acceleration and exhibition of speed.

[bellavite1]

Jeez they have to take the fun out of everything!

[Wulf202]

Back in my youth I got tickets for excessive acceleration and exhibition of speed.

All mine ended up being defective headlights.....

[Grant H.]

Back in my youth I got tickets for excessive acceleration and exhibition of speed.

Is there a quality youth experience for a young man that DOESN'T include these?[LOL]

[RblDiver]

Bit of an aside, but I was recently in Vietnam. I would describe traffic there as a national game of chicken, where the rules of the road are more like polite suggestions at best. Want to weave in and out of traffic? Go for it. Want to go the wrong way down the road? Have fun. Thing is, because everyone there's hyperaware of what can happen, and because I'm pretty sure, as someone mentioned, you don't have nearly the same liability as you do here, it worked surprisingly well. I only saw 2 accidents while I was there, and neither looked particularly bad.

Not the greatest traffic picture, but this gives you a little bit of an idea of how many motorscooters/motorcycles are on the road compared to cars. In that game of chicken, generally speaking, motorcycles < cars < trucks. If a car wants to turn across traffic, just find the slightest break in the scooters and force your way in (or make your own break by forcing your way in anyway).
93049