View Full Version : "Ghost Gun" Ban Passes Committee
eddiememphis
04-21-2023, 08:14
https://www.coloradopolitics.com/legislature/ghost-gun-ban-colorado-committee-approval/article_35700aac-dfcf-11ed-bdb8-1fe57af15a5b.html
The Senate State, Veterans and Military Affairs Committee on Thursday approved the measure on a 3-2 party-line vote after a three-hour hearing.
The bill proposed by Sens. Chris Hansen, D-Denver, and Rhonda Fields, D-Aurora, would ban ghost guns in Colorado. For those who already possess ghost guns, the bill provides a compliance period through the end of 2023 to get the firearm serialized, which could be done by licensed firearm dealers.
Forcing people to forfiet funds to engrave a serial number could be considered a seizure without compensation on a legally manufactured item.
Just an argument
powerstroke79
04-21-2023, 08:52
"That would also likely require the owner to go through a background check and any other normal processes tied to purchase and possession of firearms, according to Hansen."
Extortion
"That would also likely require the owner to go through a background check and any other normal processes tied to purchase and possession of firearms, according to Hansen."
Extortion
The funny thing is that it wouldn't even do that
I'm sure the same kinds of people who would use a "ghost gun" for something criminal will stop manufacturing them and immediately comply with registration. Commonsense and all that.
eddiememphis
04-21-2023, 12:40
How many of the "ghost guns" used in crimes are actual 80% kits, versus a gun with the serial number ground off?
I doubt the gangsters in Chicago have a manufacturing setup in a warehouse somewhere.
The murderer in the Springs at Club Q? They called that a "ghost gun" but never said where he got the gun. Did he build it, buy it or steal it?
No one that likes their fingers will make a firearm on a 3D printer.
This is another trending buzzword with little legal definition, used mainly to stir up the firearm ignorant and soccer mom crowd.
No one that likes their fingers will make a firearm on a 3D printer.
3d printed glocks, 3d printed ARs, Aks, etc, all use standard barrels and uppers/slides. Even the more complete 3d printed guns use metal barrels & bolts. Why would these have a chance of exploding vs manufactured guns?
I've fired a few 1000 rounds from printed glocks and ARs. The frames crack after a while and cause jams.
Great-Kazoo
04-21-2023, 22:32
Forcing people to forfiet funds to engrave a serial number could be considered a seizure without compensation on a legally manufactured item.
Just an argument
use a low budget engraver and do it yourself. They want to see numbers, give it to them. Excuse me, does that gun have a serial number on it? yes.
use a low budget engraver and do it yourself. They want to see numbers, give it to them. Excuse me, does that gun have a serial number on it? yes.
This one requires it to be done at a "licensed firearm manufacturer"
Is the term ghost gun even socially acceptable? I mean isn?t it offensive to some group? Shouldn?t they be called undocumented firearms?
Is the term ghost gun even socially acceptable? I mean isn?t it offensive to some group? Shouldn?t they be called undocumented firearms?
Or they can identify as fishing poles. How dare they deadname..
just another "feel good" law that won't do a dang thing in stopping even one crime from happening. Because after all, laws aren't preventable steps in stopping crime. PERIOD....
How would they enforce this? Zero record or database of unserialized guns.
3d printing has pretty much nullified every gun control law.
How would they enforce this? Zero record or database of unserialized guns.
3d printing has pretty much nullified every gun control law.
The law requires unserialized guns to be serialized by an FFL. The engraved serial number must be preceded by the FFL number. The serial number must be recorded and retained by the FFL.
I am not aware of an FFL in Colorado who advertises engraving as a service they offer.
The law requires unserialized guns to be serialized by an FFL. The engraved serial number must be preceded by the FFL number. The serial number must be recorded and retained by the FFL.
I am not aware of an FFL in Colorado who advertises engraving as a service they offer.
But how will it be enforced? The whole point of 80% or 3d printed is to have something the government doesn't know about. Because you know, they have zero right knowing what you own.
They have zero record of who owns these, and have no way of tracking down owners, except by a slim chance encounter. This law is nothing but virtue signaling that accomplishes absolutely nothing, except to say they did something. Home manufacturing of firearms is in the longstanding history and tradition of this country. So these new laws do not pass the new tests for gun laws set by recent USSC rulings.
eddiememphis
04-22-2023, 19:13
3d printed glocks, 3d printed ARs, Aks, etc, all use standard barrels and uppers/slides. Even the more complete 3d printed guns use metal barrels & bolts. Why would these have a chance of exploding vs manufactured guns?
I've fired a few 1000 rounds from printed glocks and ARs. The frames crack after a while and cause jams.
Exactly my point.
The media makes it seem as though any knucklehead with an office depot 3D printer is churning out AR-15s.
Until the technology advances to the point of affordable molecular printing, the hard parts will still need to be made with fire and hammers.
eddiememphis
04-22-2023, 19:18
This law... accomplishes absolutely nothing, except to say they did something.
Duh...
Although, it may accomplish continued support and funding for those that wrote and voted for the bill.
That is why there were over 400 new laws enacted in Colorado in 2022.
We will soon see the tally for this session.
So.. AKs have a serial number on the trunnion, I'm assuming I'm in compliance. ;)
powerstroke79
05-01-2023, 16:55
Going to House committee tomorrow. Please sign up to let your voice be heard. In-person,remotely or read testimonials. Even if your not into home building. It's will just be another rung on the ladder. Thank you for your time.
https://www2.leg.state.co.us/CLICS/CLICS2023A/commsumm.nsf/signIn.xsp
If this help get the word out, Here is a copy of the read testimony I submitted. Feel free to copy paste ,add or take away.
I am writing to you today to urge you to oppose Bill 23-279, a bill that bans custom-made firearms, otherwise referred to as “ghost guns.” This bill does nothing to prevent prohibited people from getting their hands on firearms. This bill is another tax on honest firearm owners like my self.
The bill states an induvial would have to take the homemade firearm to an ffl to get a serial number issued then engraved. Has there been any outreach to ffls to see if this service is even available? What is the cost of this going to be to request a serial Number? What is the time frame to receive the serial number from CBI? Once the serial number has been received can the engraving be done by any service or only at an FFL? The bill then states that that induvial will have to Submit a back ground check from CBI. Is this fee going to be $10? There is going to be a fee for the ffl to do the paper work for CBI. This normally runs $20-$40 per item. Is this going to be Waved? There will be no grandfather clause?
These are all questions that should be addressed prior to instituting any bill. There needs to be further clarification prior to this bill being passed.
In closing, this bill will not stop a prohibited person from buying or building a firearm. A criminal does not follow rules or laws. I ask you to stop restricting and taxing my rights. Thank you for your time,
ChadAmberg
05-01-2023, 18:20
So what would happen if you build a P80 before this, and engrave a serial number on it yourself already. Then this legislation comes along requiring an FFL to engrave a second serial number. Yeah... that'd be fun to deal with.
Anyone have a template of some sort if you wish to enter written testimony?
kidicarus13
05-02-2023, 22:17
Passed committee 9-4, headed to the full House. Those affected better start considering which FFL will engrave your 80%.
93732
Serious question though, a foreign built AK has the serial number on the trunnion, not the receiver, I would assume that the fact that it has a nunber on it that it should be good?
Great-Kazoo
05-03-2023, 08:02
Serious question though, a foreign built AK has the serial number on the trunnion, not the receiver, I would assume that the fact that it has a nunber on it that it should be good?
Correct. My 1st gen draco and arsenal have nothing on the receivers, just the trunnion. Which is how they were sbr'd, so must be acceptable.
Passed committee 7-4, headed to the full House. Those affected better start considering which FFL will engrave your 80%.
Why?
These guns have no record of existing. How is Colorado going to enforce compliance on items they don't know exist?
Passed committee 7-4, headed to the full House. Those affected better start considering which FFL will engrave your 80%.
That there lies the problem, that needs to be removed from the bill as dipshit who wrote it does not understand and didnt do "any" research. FFL/Manufacturer would have to assume someone else's made firearm, make it their own and add a serial # effectively taking liability over it. The one FFL/ I know that makes Firearms and aksed them out of curiosity was like not only "NO" but HELL NO! Too much risk.........
Why?
These guns have no record of existing. How is Colorado going to enforce compliance on items they don't know exist?
Right? I have serialized and homemade. The ones that are home made I am going to make sure they work and they will go to a boating accident, until the day I move out of this Commi state, then they will be miraculously found. I have some say, "..... just wait till it passes", with the current makeup in this state. It will pass, lawsuits; I don't have hope on this, unless that provision of current owners of homemade firearms is removed, I see no hope.....................
powerstroke79
05-03-2023, 19:02
That there lies the problem, that needs to be removed from the bill as dipshit who wrote it does not understand and didnt do "any" research. FFL/Manufacturer would have to assume someone else's made firearm, make it their own and add a serial # effectively taking liability over it. The one FFL/ I know that makes Firearms and aksed them out of curiosity was like not only "NO" but HELL NO! Too much risk.........
Agree, I have read that if a ffl request a serial number then they become the manufacturer. So with the new law that will allow lawsuit against manufacturers. I don't see many ffls willing to do that.
Don't they already do this in California? The state issues a serial number and the FFL engraves it or something like that? That of course brings up the issue of registration and / or database.
kidicarus13
05-05-2023, 11:04
This bill passed 46-18. 93745
This bill passed 46-18. 93745
Yep.................ZERO hope that it will not pass, it will, its coming. Now that I am thinking about it looking at the bill the "un-serialized parts" scares me? Guess need to read the whole bill. Hopefully it gets amended on the next step to clarify.
kidicarus13
05-05-2023, 16:28
Yep.................ZERO hope that it will not pass, it will, its coming. Now that I am thinking about it looking at the bill the "un-serialized parts" scares me? Guess need to read the whole bill. Hopefully it gets amended on the next step to clarify.
Next step? Do you mean the step when the Governor signs it?
Next step? Do you mean the step when the Governor signs it?
Shit, haven't been paying attention, thought had one more stop?
Well no hope then..................... be nice if we didn't have just RMGO attempting to take things to court, where is GOA, 2AF when we need them? I am just so tired of this state....................
Guess need to read the whole bill.
SB23-279 (https://leg.colorado.gov/sites/default/files/documents/2023A/bills/2023a_279_rer.pdf)
O2
Shit, haven't been paying attention, thought had one more stop?
Well no hope then..................... be nice if we didn't have just RMGO attempting to take things to court, where is GOA, 2AF when we need them? I am just so tired of this state....................
The only hope is that all of this anti 2A legislation that is being passed is all written by MDA/Newtown. If it can be defeated in one town/state then that could/would lead to it being struckdown elsewhere as all of these laws use the same legal text. The Bruen decision brings hope as there is zero historical regulation pertaining to home built firearms on record so there is a high bar to pass for enacting new regulation on this matter.
Shit, haven't been paying attention, thought had one more stop?
Well no hope then..................... be nice if we didn't have just RMGO attempting to take things to court, where is GOA, 2AF when we need them? I am just so tired of this state....................
Also,.wasn't Dudley behind a couple state legislative races that ultimately split the vote between Reps and handed seats over to Dems and was the start of the fall of several Rep.seats in the state senate and house?
Also,.wasn't Dudley behind a couple state legislative races that ultimately split the vote between Reps and handed seats over to Dems and was the start of the fall of several Rep.seats in the state senate and house?
That is exactly what Dudley did. He as well as the pro life groups were heavily involved in primary races that purged the moderate republicans in the early 2000s and cost several seats. These seats all went to Democrats, and Republicans lost the majorities in both chambers. He and his group were also so short sighted that they attacked Bill Owens at the state assembly in 2002. I was at the state assembly during that nonsense as a delegate and went off on them in the hallway along with others. We wouldn't have statewide shall issue concealed carry without Owens. The stupidity of Dudley cost the state and sped up the Democrats power grab.
The stupidity of Dudley cost the state and sped up the Democrats power grab.
I highly doubt Dudley cared one way or another as long as he scammed a few more people out of an RMGO donation.
Polis hasn't signed SB279 yet; looks like he is letting it become law without putting his name on it, which happens a week from tomorrow.
https://stateofco.secure.force.com/TFA/
This is something the founders got wrong. If not signed or vetoed, the bill should be considered vetoed, and the larger majority must override the ghost veto
hollohas
06-02-2023, 16:52
He signed it.
eddiememphis
06-02-2023, 17:05
Shit.
I just bought a drill press. Guess I can't make any 80%s now...
BPTactical
06-02-2023, 18:27
Ignorant faggot
Ctrl+F'ing through the bill, I never see where they actually define a "Machine Gun Conversion Device" other than circularly referencing it as a device which converts a firearm to a machine gun. What definition of "machine gun" are they even using?
kidicarus13
06-02-2023, 20:43
Ctrl+F'ing through the bill, I never see where they actually define a "Machine Gun Conversion Device" other than circularly referencing it as a device which converts a firearm to a machine gun. What definition of "machine gun" are they even using?
Stop trying to use logic. It doesn't work that way.
Great-Kazoo
06-02-2023, 20:46
Ctrl+F'ing through the bill, I never see where they actually define a "Machine Gun Conversion Device" other than circularly referencing it as a device which converts a firearm to a machine gun. What definition of "machine gun" are they even using?
Whichever one fits the narrative de jour. Advancing a capricious & arbitrary law, that allows them to remove any type of firearm they decide needs to be gone. All those NO ONE NEEDS AN AR15 gun owners. Will shit when they realize that remy woodsmaster, Mah Granpappy gave me. Is now a high powered sniper rifle that's illegal.
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