Death of the 6.8SPC Spec II

[Colorado Osprey]

For those that kept up with the 6.8SPC and the Spec I and Spec II pressures and the required barrel twist to get those:

Remington is fixed on the Spec I loadings... and is slow to change... and stuborn and doesn't want to raise the pressure to Spec II.
Ammo makers are slow to jump on the band wagon as the Spec II ammo fits in Spec I guns causing potentially dangerous pressure levels in fast twist guns.

Result??
A new cartridge with the higher pressure being suggested by ammo makers.
SAAMI is releasing data soon on the new 6.8x43
Slow twist, higher pressure to duplicate/exceed or replace the Spec II 6.8SPC.

The good news to all Spec II 6.8 owners.. you can probably get you chamber re-cut to the new 6.8x43 as long as you didn't buy a chrome lined barrel....but most of the people who bought the Spec II slow twist guns bought chome lined.

[MichiganMilitia]

This is GREAT news! I have an ARPerformance 6.8 with the DMR-C chamber and a nitro-carburized barrel. Now I just need to acquire some more ammo... (Someday I'll have a reloading station of my own... :rolleyes:)

Again, I think this is very good news, and maybe the title of the thread is a little misleading. The 6.8 round is not dying, the outdated name is.

[Colorado Osprey]

I disagree, the Spec II ammo will probably be hard to find if not impossible to get in the next couple of years when the 6.8x43 ammo comes out. Those guns made for Spec II will be relegated to old Spec I ammo or have to be rechambered. The cartridge dimensions are different in the 6.8x43 so that it will not chamber in a 6.8SPC.

Don't get me wrong... the 6.8SPC will live... but maybe die out in the longer future because Remington will not alter their original round and pressure.
I see the Military picking up the 6.8x43 and the 6.8 vs. 6.5 debate going away. The 6.5 can only produce the "published" numbers with a 24" barrel and only using factory ammo. The 6.8 Spec II or the replacement the 6.8x43 has more energy and velocity from a short barrel with re-produceable ammo even with re-loads than even the 24" Grendel.

I'm glad I waited on buying a 6.8 I guess it will be a 6.8x43 instead of an SPC... to me the Grendel was never a contender. The 243 WSSM does everything the Grendel does and better.

[MichiganMilitia]

Hmmm valid points, but I think a company like SSA (http://www.ssarmory.com/) will continue to make their current production ammo, which can be fired in a SpecII or DMR chamber. I have the DMR-C chamber, so i can fire anything currently in production, and I'm pretty sure I should be good for the 6.8x43 too. Am I correct about this?

[Colorado Osprey]

That's the big debate right now.

Ammo makers dont want 6.8x43 to fit in a 6.8SPC chambered gun. So there is no risk of catastrophic failure. The guys who own the Spec II guns want the new ammo to fit their guns.
What has been leaked is that the chamber dimensions are indeed different than the 6.8SPC Spec I or Spec II, but that doesnt mean that they will have to be altered to work.

I've heard complaints already from 6.8SPC owners that think the gun makers should take back their guns and re-chamber or re-barrel them for free if there is a new cartridge... Yeah right... like it is the gun makers responsibility that people bought a product that is now possibly obsolete.

[jh308]

So what's the difference in this new 6.8x43 from the 6.8spc? The majority of the 6.8 indrusty members have been calling the SPCII and DMR spec ammo the "6.8 x 43mm" for over a year now themselves. They wanted SAAMI to accept the SPC II/DMR under that name only to seperate it from the SAAMI spec'd guns instead of updating the original SAAMI spec. Much like the +P designation for handgun ammo.

If it's an entirely new round, what's the parent case, etc?

After all, the only difference in the SPC and SPC II is 0.010" in freebore before the leade.

I've seen no mention of this on ARFCOM or 68forums.

[Colorado Osprey]

This was from canidid conversations with an ammo manufacturer that submitted samples for testing to SAAMI.

Nothing is publishable... just hearsay at this point

Like I said ammo makers are pushing that the 6.8x43 cant be chambered in the 6.8SPC for safety reasons... maybe they changed the shoulder angle so that the SPC won't fit.... Don't know just speculating.

I don't believe they want it to take an entirely new case or redevelope the round. There won't be a new parent case as this is just tweaking the round as I understand it.

[jh308]

Thanks.

[jh308]

SHOT's been over for awhile now...

Any updates?

[Colorado Osprey]

Has nothing to do with SHOT. It has to do with SAAMI standardizing and testing.

Time will tell what the results were. Again, it is ammo manufacturers pushing this not gun makers. They don't want a Kaboom from somebody shooting this ammo in a fast twist 6.8SPC gun.

[rhineoshott]

Thanks for the good info! Sounds like you're very well informed.

[jh308]

Has nothing to do with SHOT. It has to do with SAAMI standardizing and testing.

Time will tell what the results were. Again, it is ammo manufacturers pushing this not gun makers. They don't want a Kaboom from somebody shooting this ammo in a fast twist 6.8SPC gun.

I was just expecting an announcement this big to come at SHOT. Why the manufactures can't put a +P or +P+ label on the ammo is beyond me. It seems to work fine in the pistol world.

[DocMedic]

Looks like the 6.8spc SPEC II is not gonna die. When ever bushmaster finally release their 6.8 barrels for the ACR, it will be the 1:11 Twist SpecII configuration and not the 1:10 Twist as they previously mention in the Arfcom radio interview.

[constructor]

It will be the same case one way or the other if ATK/Federal/Win ever load it.
IMO the only spec that will change will be the length of the leade and maybe the spec of the barrel twist and L-G ratio compared to what it is now -10 twist 4 groove with .0596 bore area.

[kittrich]

Update ( short version) Jan 2011, Looks like the SPC II chamber is alive and well and flying off the shelves.

"Rumors of my death have be greatly exaggerated"

[MIKEONE]

Well that was interesting any new updates?

[bogie]

Bump

Anybody know if the SPC II is going to become the 6.8x43? I'm getting ready to buy in 6.8 and I want to know what I'm in for. Feedback?

Thanks.

[J]

The great dataloss of 2012 wiped out most of this thread. More recent posts had a consensus that the SPC II wasn't going anywhere soon. I agree. The SPC II has in fact gotten more traction and gained popularity since this thread was originally authored.

[bogie]

The great dataloss of 2012 wiped out most of this thread. More recent posts had a consensus that the SPC II wasn't going anywhere soon. I agree. The SPC II has in fact gotten more traction and gained popularity since this thread was originally authored.

Thanks, I thought as much. I'm really curious if they would change the clambering on it again? Or if they plan on standardizing the SPC II into the 6.8x43 designation. I just want don't want to get hosed by purchasing a fad. I completely agree though, that the SPC II is becoming more and more popular, and won't be going anywhere.

[J]

I think if they were going to do it, they would have. The original talk was to have NATO endorse it, and standardize it as the 6.8x43 NATO. Since very few, if any NATO member nation militaries are using such a cartridge, I see no reason NATO would put their dog in that fight.

[osok-308]

So, where can I find info on this new 6.8x43? Any google search yields 6.8spc pages. I am interested in this possibility of the new 6.8, I have an AR15 lower and can be patient if it means waiting for a new/improved version of the 6.8. I know that it seems like the old guns won't be able to fire the new 6.8, any word if the new rifles will fire the older round?

[HoneyBadger]

So, where can I find info on this new 6.8x43? Any google search yields 6.8spc pages. I am interested in this possibility of the new 6.8, I have an AR15 lower and can be patient if it means waiting for a new/improved version of the 6.8. I know that it seems like the old guns won't be able to fire the new 6.8, any word if the new rifles will fire the older round?

Check out http://68forums.com/forums/
I think you will find more than enough technical expertise there, along with some pretty friendly people.