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Hummer
09-01-2023, 00:25
For those of you who watched the Republican debate last week, the article below offers a little food for thought. My wife and I thought the debate was a great exchange that revealed much about the candidates, and it's a pretty good field. Beforehand, we were interested in what Vivek Ramaswami had to say. It didn't take long for us to realize that he was everything that Asa Hutchinson described as the ChatGPT candidate, shallow and with no understanding of history, world events, and the global challenges our country faces. A mini-me narcissistic huckster.

Personally, I thought that Christie and Haley were the stars of the evening with the most sound, principled arguments based on realities of our national and global challenges. That the elephant in the room, who didn't have the guts to show up, says all about who he is, and who he isn't.

Does anyone here really believe that Hillary Clinton's 2020 alter ego counterpart can win the 2024 election? Must we lose to Joe again? All of them, deplorable? Isn't it time to move on to reality based selections? I think that's what America wants.




https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/nikki-haley-is-the-best-trump-alternative/?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=TheSeattleTimes%2Fmagazine%2FOpinion


Nikki Haley is the best Trump alternative


By
David Brooks (https://www.seattletimes.com/author/david-brooks/)
Syndicated columnist




I have a bunch of friends and acquaintances who are Never Trump, maybe-Trump or kind-of-Trump Republicans. They?ve been looking around for the candidate they can support and give their dollars to, somebody who is an antidote to former President Donald Trump and who can win a general election.


We?ve had endless conversations about who this person might be. Many of these friends and acquaintances went through a Ron DeSantis phase. A few like the No Labels third-candidate option. I?ve often found myself talking up Tim Scott with them. If Trump is a moral stain, I would say, Tim Scott is the kind, honest and optimistic remedy.


But Wednesday?s debate persuaded me that the best Trump alternative is not Scott, it?s Nikki Haley. Nothing against Scott, he just didn?t show the specific kind of power and force needed to bring down Trump. Haley showed more than a glimpse of that power.
Wednesday?s debate illustrated the cancer that is eating away at the Republican Party. It?s not just Trumpian immorality. The real disease is narcissistic hucksterism. The real danger is that he?s creating generations of people, such as Vivek Ramaswamy, who threaten to dominate the GOP for decades to come.


Ramaswamy has absolutely no reason to be running for president. He said that Trump is the best president of the 21st century. So why is he running against the man he so admires? The answer is: To draw attention to himself. Maybe to be Trump?s vice president or secretary of social media memes.
If Trump emerged from the make-believe world of pro wrestling, Ramaswamy emerges from the make-believe world of social media and the third-rate sectors of the right-wing media sphere. His statements are brisk, in-your-face provocations intended to produce temporary populist dopamine highs. It?s all performative show. Ramaswamy seems as uninterested in actually governing as his idol.



Republicans have been unable to take down Trump because they haven?t been able to rebut and replace the core Trump/Ramaswamy ethos ? that politics is essentially a form of entertainment. But time and again, Haley seemed to look at the Trump/Ramaswamy wing and implicitly say: You children need to stop preening and deal with reality. She showed total impatience for the kind of bravado that the fragile male ego manufactures by the boatload.


Haley dismantled Ramaswamy on foreign policy. It was not only her contemptuous put-down: ?You have no foreign policy experience and it shows.? She took on the whole America First ethos that sounds good as a one-liner but that doesn?t work when you?re governing a superpower. Gesturing to Ramaswamy, she said, ?He wants to hand Ukraine to Russia, he wants to let China eat Taiwan, he wants to go and stop funding Israel. You don?t do that to friends.?


Similarly on abortion, many of her opponents took the issue as a chance to perform self-righteous bluster ? to make the issue about themselves. She was the only one who acknowledged the complexity of the issue, who tried to humanize people caught in horrible situations, who acknowledged that the absolutist position is politically unsustainable.


She was the candidate brave enough to state the obvious truth that Trump took decades of GOP fiscal conservative posturing and he blew it to smithereens. The other candidates assumed the usual conservative postures about cutting taxes and spending, but she introduced the reality: Under Trump, the GOP added $8 trillion to the national debt. Where have you been the past seven years?
That was part of a larger accomplishment. She seems to be one of the few candidates who understands that to run against Trump you have to run against Trump. Many of the other candidates, especially DeSantis, seem to have absorbed the pernicious Trumpian assumption that Republican voters are so stupid that they can be won over by hokum. DeSantis is a smart guy trying to run as a simpleton. Haley, by contrast, seems to believe that voters are intelligent enough to be treated as adults.


I?m trying to point to an overall pattern. When politics becomes entertainment, it?s very easy to create a land of make-believe in which you get high on your own supply. To follow Trump, you more or less have to say farewell to the actual world and live by the rules of the fun-house carnival. Haley seems to have her feet still planted on the ground ? able to face what Saul Bellow once called ?the reality situation.?


My largest question about Haley is: Does she know what year it is? The most interesting exchange of the night was between Ramaswamy and Mike Pence. Ramaswamy, to his credit, was talking about the nation?s mental health crisis and the national identity crisis that lies beneath it. Pence waved all that talk about the loss of meaning and purpose as so much woo-woo, and argued that the real problem is that government is not as good as the people. Pence, like many in the field, is still living in the age of Ronald Reagan, or at the latest, the tea party. They haven?t reoriented their focus to the sorts of concerns that are most important to heartland voters without a college degree. They don?t understand why the old Republican orthodoxy was so fragile in the face of Trump. They haven?t faced the new realities that have emerged this century.


Has Haley? Too soon to tell. But if any of my friends and acquaintances want to stop Trump, this is their moment to give Haley her chance.



David Brooks is a regular columnist for The New York Times.

Bailey Guns
09-01-2023, 08:47
I wouldn't be counting Trump out just yet (that's not an endorsement, BTW)...

13 million people watched the republican debate. The Tucker Carlson interview of Trump has 262M views and counting. Trump is powerful and he's popular and he's gaining more and more of the black population from what I can tell. I'm even seeing YT videos of people in the inner city hoods bitching about Biden and promoting Trump. I don't believe I've ever seen that support for a republican before.

This is a complicated field of candidates, that's for sure. I know who I won't vote for...but I haven't decided who I will support yet.

eddiememphis
09-01-2023, 10:10
David Brooks on his politics- "I’m content, as my hero Isaiah Berlin put it, to plant myself instead on the rightward edge of the leftward tendency—in the more promising soil of the moderate wing of the Democratic Party."

He is no longer a conservative, other than in the New York Times or The Atlantic's view. He openly laments "conservatism’s decay into Trumpism".

Great-Kazoo
09-01-2023, 13:43
Christie signed as many restrictive gun laws during his time in office, running a close second to newsom. He may be an "east coast" conservative. He ain't no "conservative for the people"

earplug
09-01-2023, 14:39
A broken stick with shit on each end. Look for another party

MED
09-01-2023, 18:43
Does anybody really think we have a choice in the '24 Selection? The best we can hope for is forcing the selection of RFK and hoping that he is a Trojan horse and not a wolf in sheep's clothing.

funkymonkey1111
09-01-2023, 18:57
To say that President Trump didn't have the guts to show up to debate a rag-tag bunch of losers he had 40 pt lead on (and over 50 AFTER the debate), coupled with any affinity for Chris Christie, is questionable. Trump's gap literally improved after the debate because every one of these candidates suck.

longrange2
09-01-2023, 22:27
Christie and Haley are neocons who want endless overseas wars. We can?t even secure our own border or take care of our own people, why are we mucking around in Ukraine? David Brooks? He couldn?t be more irrelevant to me.

eddiememphis
09-01-2023, 22:43
President Biden will not be the Democrat candidate in 2024.

With his declining health and the mounting evidence of malfeasance, he will step aside. Or be forced to- same thing.

That will change the dynamics of the race with a likely Gavin Newsom run, possibly with Jared Polis as Vice President.

Democrats are not stupid. They know they can't retain power with President Biden as the leader of the party. Witness the surge of articles in left leaning publications hinting at Biden's growing lack of electability.

Will the Republicans do the same thing with Trump?

If they were smart, which is very questionable, they with focus on promoting a ticket that can win, rather than having a bunch of fools distract from the race.

That would mean either kicking Donald Trump to the curb or getting 100% behind him.

I don't know what the winning strategy will be.

XJ
09-02-2023, 07:02
Here's something that should be obvious - when the New York Commie Propaganda Times says positive things about a Republican candidate that is exactly who we don't want.


Chris Christie is the elephant in every room, no way that RINO fat fuck would win. Like it or not, a significant portion of the electorate (cough cough, women) vote based on superficial traits. Short, ugly, fat, beard, etc are all non-starters.

FoxtArt
09-03-2023, 12:24
I've taken to calling them "Only Trumpers".

While there are promising candidates, the Only Trumpers have absolutely sunk the ship of the conservative party. I do believe, even if he is sitting in a jail cell, he'll still clinch the nomination, despite having zero, and I mean zero percent chance of winning the election. I think current polling has him with over 50% of the party. The problem is, that may get him the nomination, but the other 45% of the party will wisely never vote or him.

Considering that he spent more than any U.S. president in history, increased our national debt by 40% in a single term, and is the direct cause of the Afghanistan debacle as well as the vast majority of the responsibility in the rampant inflation, many actual conservatives will vote for virtually everyone else. I'll even vote for Biden before Trump at this point, as Biden is a freakin' fiscal conservative by comparison. (In reality, I would not vote...)

Financially, the country can't survive another four years with the narcissist writing hot checks. But the Only Trumpers don't care about winning an election. They honestly believe Trump is like the right-hand of Jesus, coming to save the lands, despite, you know, not actually following through on virtually any promise (Draining the swamp? LOL, Paying off the National Debt? OMG)

Didn't watch the debate just a few short clips, as it's almost an exercise in futility at this point. The left could run a 95 year old Llama and it would get elected vs Trump, and there's too many Only Trumpers out there to the point that even Ronald Regan couldn't clinch it at this point.

The party got taken over by short-sited fools, and likely will have to be replaced before any future election can be won, if it ever can be.

This is a rare time when a third party could rise up, peeling off the 50% of actual conservative voters, as well as sizeable amounts of independents and some democrats too. If that were to occur, then the "T"rump party would evaporate. But, it's like threading a needle with a lot of luck associated, so I think our political future is simply quite bleak unless Trump passes away naturally in the arms of another porn star in the near future.

I'll ETA: I am on board and will vote for whatever primary candidate seems to have the best chance. Not saying I'm sitting out the primaries. I'm just saying, at this point it's about the same odds as a liberal running against Pelosi in California anytime in the 2010's.

TRnCO
09-06-2023, 10:01
Well, at this point it's all just anyone's guess as what's coming in the next two years, BUT one thing is for sure, I will never vote for Biden, and it doesn't matter who the other candidate/s is. NEVER....I can't name a single thing that's he's done that I agree with. Not one single thing. Just like when Hillary was on the Dem ticket, Not in a million years with a gun to my head would I vote for that scag..

I didn't watch the debate because IMO it's irrelevant. Unless and until Trump is out of the race, it just doesn't matter. In a way I hope Trump isn't on the ticket, but I don't see anything short of a miracle that he's not. BUT if Biden is on the ticket, I know who I'll not vote for.

def90
09-06-2023, 10:48
Nothing is set in stone until next fall. I expect there to be several candidates rise to he top only to fall in to obscurity weeks later over the next year.

Spending time debating it right now is a waste of time and energy as far as I see it.

RblDiver
09-06-2023, 12:16
The Tucker Carlson interview of Trump has 262M views and counting.

To be clear, that 262 number is misleading. That's more how many times it has shown up on timelines. If you follow 10 people who have retweeted it, that's 10 "views." You don't even have to watch it, the video player just has to be 50% on your screen for 2 seconds.

eddiememphis
09-06-2023, 15:33
It has already begun- Biden will not run.

https://nypost.com/2023/09/06/kamala-harris-says-she-may-have-to-take-over-and-is-ready-to-do-so/

"Vice President Kamala Harris said Wednesday that an important part of her job is the fact that she "may have to take over" if President Biden is unable to complete his term in office- and that she's ready to do so if required."

"Well, first of all, let’s — I’m answering your hypothetical, but Joe Biden is going to be fine. So that is not going to come to fruition,” Harris said.

Sounds a lot like when the GM of a sports team says player won't get traded or a coach's job is secure.

Fired, so fired.

TRnCO
09-07-2023, 07:11
I said at the beginning of Biden getting elected that he wouldn't make it to the end of the first term, and I still stand by that prediction. It seems obvious to everyone not under his tent that he is losing his cognizant ability, more so by the day.