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theGinsue
11-14-2023, 22:45
Yeah, this is a long post - but I think the information might be helpful to many here.



For a couple of years, I'd sensed a bit of change in my sense of urgency to urinate but it wasn't significant so it was easy to dismiss. Then, in the fall of 2021 I learned my brother was diagnosed with prostate cancer. He had his prostate removed in January, 2022 and there is no longer any sign of cancer in his body. During this time, I found out that my 81-year-old dad also had prostate cancer but was advised that it wouldn't be an issue for him due to his age.

In the last two years I've heard it said many times that every man, if they live long enough, will eventually have prostate cancer. Here's my story. I hope this helps anyone else who goes through this. Let's face it: Cancer, "the big C", is scary. The good news is that if you catch it in time, and if you get it treated in time, Prostate Cancer is probably the most survivable type of cancer you can get.

You must be your own advocate for your health care
At 57 years old, I'd been attempting to get my primary care provider to get me cancer screening for years. Each request went with assurances from the provider that he'd make it happen, but it never did. Sometime in the summer of 2022 I was assigned to a new primary care provider. So, in October, 2022, when I was called by my primary care providers nurse that I needed to have a blood test before I could have my medication prescriptions renewed, I insisted on getting cancer screening. After conferring with the doctor, the nurse called me back and informed me that a Prostate Specific Antigen (PSA) test was added to the annual blood tests. She also informed me the doctor had been hesitant to add this as "you didn't meet the criteria". What? I have a family history of prostate cancer, I was a 57-year-old male with a prostate, exactly WHAT criteria did I not meet? I got no answer to that question. I had concerns and medical testing was the only thing that would be able to prove or disprove any health risks. I learned that I had to be my own best advocate to get the screenings I needed.

Get screened
Until recently, the medical profession has advised men over 50 years old to get annual PSA level screening. Within the last few years many professionals in the medical field are advising men over 40 to begin this testing. My advice is to begin at 40. As with any cancer, early detection will be the key to removal without it spreading. If your health care provider or insurance won't provide this screening, find someone who will. This is your life and your health on the line, fight for it.

Know your numbers
When the results of the blood test came back, I was informed that my PSA level was 7.37. For reference, "healthy PSA levels" are 4 or lower. A 7.37 indicated potential for cancer. But, it's important to note (thank you to my dear friend Bert for reminding me of this): While PSA scores are an important indicator of potential problems, they are not an absolute and are only an indicator. If you have a PSA screen and it comes back elevated it doesn’t definitively mean you have prostate cancer. You might not have anything other than a few years under your belt. PSA's can be elevated for any number of reasons. Find a competent Urologist and follow through.

The Urology referral and biopsy
Due to the increased PSA level, I was given a referral to a urologist. The first urology appointment had a "flow-rate test" and an ultrasound to both check the size of my prostate and to identify how effectively I'd vacated my bladder. While the bladder was slightly enlarged, the ultrasound showed I'd been able to almost completely vacate my bladder - good signs. In meeting with the urologist, I was told I'd need a biopsy of my prostate to check for cancer. I was also told that the prostate is about the size of a walnut, sort of shaped like a doughnut that's slightly squished at the top and bottom across the middle, creating a left and right half.

A couple of weeks later I was back at the urologist office for the biopsy. While the procedure was uncomfortable, it was mostly due to embarrassment. The device they use to grab the samples makes a loud click as it grabs the sample but it's subdued when inside of you. The doctor obtained 12 samples; 2 each from the top, middle and bottom of each side of the prostate. The actual procedure only took about 15 minutes and then I was allowed to dress. Because tissue was taken, there was going to be some bleeding and things were a little tender for about a day.

Biopsy results
Within a week of the biopsy, I was called back to the urologist to go over the results. Of the 12 samples, all 6 samples from the left side of my prostate showed cancer; none on the right. It was then I was told my "Gleeson Score" and how the samples rated. Most of the samples rated in the "Low/Very Low" risk group, but one sample was in the Intermediate risk group. I mistakenly understood this sample was in "Grade Group 2" but later found out it was "Grade Group 3" (high end of the Intermediate risk).

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To learn more about the Gleeson Score, check out this website: https://www.pcf.org/about-prostate-cancer/diagnosis-staging-prostate-cancer/gleason-score-isup-grade/

Treatment options and next steps
My urologist informed me that I needed several scans to identify whether or not the cancer had spread yet. I'd need a CT scan "with contrast", I'd need a bone scan (when prostate cancer spreads, it typically moves quickly into the bones). I found out later that I had also received a referral to get a genetic test. This test helps you and your doctors know what cancer and other health risks you may have based off of what is known about genetics. I opted to not get this test.

My urologist discussed with me the four treatment options* that lay in front of me.
Option 1: Do nothing. Definitely not advised for most prostate cancer patients.
Option 2: Treat the cancer with chemotherapy. We've all heard how chemo isn't a targeted treatment and how badly the body reacts to it. While it can be very effective at killing prostate cancer, it can also harm other healthy parts and takes a toll on the body. Plus, if it doesn't completely eliminate the cancer, or if it comes back, the recommended treatment is prostate removal.
Option 3: Insertion of a radioactive rod, or "seed" near the cancerous part of the prostate. This would require some surgery of its own. Many people opt for this option but there are some things one must consider: The radiation will damage not just the prostate, but surrounding tissue as well. As with chemo, if the radiation doesn't completely eliminate the cancer, or if it comes back, the recommended treatment is prostate removal. But, because surrounding tissue has been damaged by the radiation, this tissue must be removed as well. One possible outcome from this is that the patient will require a colostomy bag for the rest of their life.
Option 4: Surgical removal of the prostate. While this has the best chance of success for "curing" the patient of prostate cancer once and for all, there are some drawbacks. The prostate actually performs most of the work of providing bladder continence (aka bladder control). While there are muscles present that can also perform this task, most men never use these muscles so they're weak and need to be trained if the prostate is removed. This will require the patient to use adult diapers and/or incontinence pads, at least for the short term. Additionally, the prostate is significantly responsible for male penis erection. Once the prostate is removed, a patient will likely have problems with erectile dysfunction (ED). There are numerous treatments for helping the patient overcome this problem, but (as my brother told me) "it'll never be a hard as it was before". Beyond just the prostate, the removal surgery also removes the seminal vesicles and some other glands by the prostate as they've been known to later develop cancer if they aren't removed as well.
*Option 5: After writing this article I found out about another treatment option I hadn't run across in any of my previous research. This option is the use of external radiation. There are a couple of different kinds, one is called "CyberKnife" and consists of 5, 20-minute treatments. There is also an older type of radiation which is 20, 5-minute treatments over the space of a little less than a month. They implant some "targets" which are made of gold. The process is similar to the one for the prostate biopsy, not fun but not terrible either. But once this is done, the treatment itself is easy: Pull your pants down slightly (no need to actually undress) then lay on the table for 5 or 20 minutes while the little radiation zapper thing moves around, and then it's done. No pain or discomfort. It's the least-invasive of all the procedures and seems to have excellent results.

There are actually a couple of other non-standard treatments for prostate cancer such as the use of sound frequencies to target and kill the cancer. Most of these other treatments are still in the research stage and, hopefully, they'll see high levels of success and offer equal or better results than the existing options.

Don't wait to decide and act - doing nothing doesn't make it go away.
When we discussed the treatment options, my urologist told me there was "no rush". I took him at his word on this for a couple of reasons. Mostly, given the options, I'd decided that my best option was to go for the surgical removal of the prostate. But even though my brother has successfully gone through this procedure, as had a close friend who found he had prostate cancer after I had been diagnosed, I was scared. Fear of the procedure and its side-effects kept me from getting treatment right away. Plus, I was involved in providing essential support at work that the surgery and recovery would have kept me from. Neither of these reasons were worth my life.

Finally, ten months after my initial diagnosis, I made an appointment with my urologist to discuss treatment. At this appointment we set a date a month and a half later (November 21, 2023) for prostate removal. With my wife at my side, the doctor discussed the side-effects of this surgery so nothing would come as a surprise. Since it had been so long since my diagnosis and CT scan, I was scheduled for another. Additionally, I'd never gotten the bone scan so that was scheduled. I got both of those completed less than a week and a half before my surgery. Lastly, I also needed a current PSA level check. Thankfully, the scans showed no spread of the cancer. [Hint: Go into those appointments well hydrated as you'll need an injection into your veins] However, my PSA had jumped from 7.37 to 13.23. One week after my treatment discussion appointment with the urologist, he called me with a sense of urgency requesting that I accept a new surgical date one month sooner. With fear in my heart, I accepted the new date - just a week and a half away on October 24, 2023. Both during this call, and during the Pre-Op appointment (which was just 4 days prior to the new surgery date), the doctor stated he felt that since it'd been so long since my original diagnosis and with my PSA level at 13.23, performing this surgery "sooner rather than later" was in my best interest. He had no additional information to go on but something was pushing him to get it done right away. I'll discuss why this was fortuitous later.

Kegels aren't just for the ladies
As I discussed before, urinary incontinence is a side effect of prostate removal. At the Pre-Op appointment, which for me was just 4 days before my surgery, the doctor told me to start working to strengthen those unused bladder muscles by doing male Kegel exercises for a few seconds each and 15 times per session, multiple times throughout the day. While you can find more information on these exercises here: https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/mens-health/in-depth/kegel-exercises-for-men/art-20045074, one of the best ways to perform these - and know you're doing them right, is to use your bladder muscles to stop your stream several times while you're urinating. Of course, once you've mentally identified the right muscles, you can (and should) perform these exercises even when you're not urinating. Even men who aren't dealing with prostate cancer can benefit from these exercises as they not only improve bladder control but can also improve sexual performance. Sadly, I'd only learned about these exercises during my Pre-Op appointment. I'd have fewer post-surgical issues with bladder incontinence had I been performing these exercises several months in advance.

Hydration is your friend
While I'd increased my water intake a day or two prior to my surgery, I wish I'd super-hydrated for a week prior. When I arrived the morning of my surgery, as they prepared me, I was given two IV's. Because I lean towards the "perpetually dehydrated", the nurses had a difficult time finding veins to insert the IVs into. While this was not only frustrating for the nurses, this was a bit painful for me. The better hydrated you are, the easier it is to find a vein. Lesson learned!

What to take with you to the hospital
While it's always advised to leave your valuables (wedding ring and other jewelry) at home and not bring them with you, there are a few things you'll want to have with you. Of course, I had my wallet with my identification with me, but I was able to leave these with my wife after my initial check-in.

If you're like me and suffer from sleep apnea, you'll absolutely want to bring a CPAP with you if you use one. Not only do I use a CPAP, but I also require supplemental oxygen. Prior to my surgical date I identified my CPAP and supplemental O2 flow rates and provided that to the nurses on the day of my surgery.

To the hospital I wore a pair of sweatpants, a loose t-shirt, short socks and untied tennis shoes. My pre-op instructions told me I'd need to have "loose fitting clothes" so this satisfied the requirement - plus, I knew I wouldn't be in any condition to bend over to tie my shoes later so my shoe choice worked well for me.

Surgery and Recovery Room
As you might imagine, I remember nothing of the actual surgery. I know they used robotic tools to perform the removal. I learned later that they slightly invert the table you're on to put your feet higher than your head. This allows organs to fall out of the way and give more room to access the prostate. Additionally, I had 5 separate incisions to accommodate everything. In discussing this surgery with others I've heard as few as 3 and as many as 5 incisions can be made, depending on the surgeon and the way the surgery is performed. One of the incisions was to allow for a line to be put in to pump gas into my abdomen. This helps open you up better for the surgeon to see and work. More on this later.

During the surgery they removed the prostate and surrounds glands and sent it all off to pathology. I was unaware that some amount of dissection of the bladder is performed. Because of all of the work involved, this surgery can take anywhere from 3 to 8 hours, with the average time about 5 hours. For me, actual surgical time was about 5 hours and 15 minutes.

In the post-surgical recovery room inflation sleeves are put onto your calves. These sleeves inflate and deflated to help with blood flow and reduce the possibility of blood clots. Before you'll be released from the recovery room to be taken to your hospital room you need to come out of anesthesia. Some folks, like me, tend to enjoy the sleep anesthesia provides (some say this is the best sleep you'll ever experience) and waking you up becomes a bit of a chore for the recovery room staff. I do recall hearing one nurse instruct me, more than once to "open your eyes". I also had considerable pain in my shoulder and down into my fingers from the time I'd been inverted. It took considerable effort and some time for me to be able to move my hands and fingers. Part of this goes back to shoulder issues I've had for almost 40 years but a little movement helps alleviate the pain and get blood flowing properly back into your hands and fingers. However, for 2 days after the surgery I still had tingling and numbness in 3 fingers on my left hand. Uncommon side-effect, but not totally unheard of.

Hospital Room and Care
I don't remember being wheeled from the recovery room to my hospital room, but I'm told I was awake; mostly. While most folks are discharged the day following their surgery, some folks need to stay for up to 5 days. I spent 2 nights.

When I started to get my wits about myself, I found that I had lots of things hanging off of me. I do, vaguely recall my wife and the nurses setting up my CPAP and getting it put on me with a separate cannula in my nose for supplemental oxygen. I still had two IV's providing not just saline fluids but also to provide me with medications. Additionally, I had a urine collection bag with a catheter. I had those lovely (yeah, I actually liked them) anti-clotting sleeves on my calves and something unexpected. I had a thin tube coming out of my abdomen with a bulb attached. This was a drain line to help remove excess blood/fluids from my abdomen. Occasionally one of the nurses would come in and pump the bulb to pull out fluids and to keep pressure on the line. It felt a bit uncomfortable as they did this - sort of like someone had a straw in my belly and was creating a vacuum.

It took a few more hours, after being brought to my room, for the anesthesia to completely (mostly?) wear off so I slept a lot. During this time, I had multiple nurses in and out checking on me often. I was always relieved when I awoke to see my wife at the end of the bed. She'll never know just how much comfort that gave me and I'm blessed she was with me.

Gas, Gas, Gas
It didn't take long for the pain from all of the gas they'd put inside of me to start. I'd been warned about this but one can never be fully prepared for it. Sure, I've had bad gas pains before, but never with an abdomen that felt like I'd gone 12 rounds with Rocky Balboa. On the 1-10 pain scale this was easily an 8+. While other things were sore, it was the gas pain that caused me the most noticeable pain and discomfort. Some folks who've been through this experience this pain for 5 days. One person I know said he only experienced it for 1/2 hour. For me, the pain was bad for me for almost 2 days. I've also heard some folks feel this gas pain up into their shoulders where it creates more pain. I was blessed in not having to deal with that, or more shoulder pain. Thing is, none of the medication they were giving me to control the pain seemed to be having any effect. I was getting Oxy and they gave me Toradal and it might as well have been a placebo. Finally, before going to sleep my second night in the hospital, they gave me an "oxy concoction" with something(s) added to the oxy in the IV. Whatever it was took the edge off of the pain for the first time since post-surgery and I was able to get some good sleep.

Eventually, in the early evening, I was brought a tray of soft foods and juices. We're talking Jell-O, pudding, broth, and I don't remember what else, but it was a banquet - and since I hadn't eaten in a day, I ate it all. Then, it was time for me (with the assistance of nurses) to get up and walk. One of the IV lines was disconnected and the O2 line and anti-clotting sleeves were removed. With help, I sat up, stood up, and walked a short circuit around the nurses' station in the hallway. That winded me. I didn't get back up to walk until the next day, where I got up for about 4 or 5 more walks, all longer than the first.

Catheter Bags, Urinary Spit-Takes and Why is it Orange?
The type of catheter used is called a Foley catheter, typically it's just referred to as a "Foley". You need to remain well hydrated. Not only is hydration important for healing but also to help remove clots and other things from your system and bladder. The catheter bag will fill up more quickly than you'd think and while you're in the hospital, and for a few days after you'll probably note that your urine is orange. While I suspect this is partially due to the presence of blood in the urine, we were told at the hospital it was because of an antibiotic being put into my IV. Either way, the orange color and clots present in the bag are normal and nothing to be worried about. The orange-colored urine lasts for about 3-5 days post-surgery.

One might assume that since you've got a catheter in you wouldn't have any leakage. One would be wrong. While the catheter catches most of your urine you will have leakage. If you sneeze, cough or laugh, you'll leak like a spit-take (I recommend doing none of those things for several days, but if you do, have a thick pillow ready to place over your abdomen, it helps a lot). If you don't know what a spit-take is, please google it. You'll have the catheter for 10 days to 2 weeks (my brother had his for 3 weeks). During that time, you'll leak, a lot. A LOT. BEFORE you go in for the surgery, ensure you pick up some adult diapers. You'll want the type with the side closures, not the briefs style as they can pinch off the flow from the catheter and get the ones made for high volume! You'll also want to pick up some heavy flow incontinence pads, lots of them, as well as "chucks" (aka "bed pads"). Even with the diaper, and the pads, you'll leak more than you'd think and the chuck will protect your bedding. Of course, you can use the disposable chucks but they're thin and move around easily. I've found the re-usable chucks to be thick, larger and stay put better than the disposables. Get the XL size. Amazon has them (https://www.amazon.com/Reusable-Underpad-Protection-Vakly-Incontinence/dp/B071N9Y2W3/ref=asc_df_B071N9Y2W3/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=242003539383&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16212989691678713706&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9029025&hvtargid=pla-449945352642&mcid=507743c33a53361cbd4ef888b4db86a5&th=1). You can get 1 for $15.99 or 3 for $37.99; buy the 3 pack - they're worth the investment. Does CVS or Walgreens carry them? Sometimes. Better to get them in advance and have them as soon as you get home from the hospital. You'll especially need these things once the catheter is removed. You can thank me later.

Real Food - or is it
Following my evening meal my first night in the hospital, my urologist examined and spoke with me and advised that I could have solid food the next morning. While I looked forward to this, I also knew it'd bring with it solid waste. Thankfully the hospital had me on stool softeners and we'd picked up a bottle for home already too. These are important; not just immediately following surgery, but also for a few days following getting the catheter removed. You DO NOT want to be pushing to vacate either your bowels nor your bladder for some time. Once you get home, keep taking the stool softener for a few weeks and then taper off of them to give your body a chance to adjust. You need plenty of time for everything to heal. Turns out that much of the "food" on the solid food trays was considerably less palpable than the food on the soft-food tray had been so I passed on eating much of it.

Going Home
Once your pain levels are down (I found out later the magic pain-level chart number was 4), and you've walked, your doctor will release you from the hospital. But you can't drive yourself, you have to have someone there who will drive you home and can stay with you for the first 24 hours, minimum. Without any of these things, you're staying in the hospital. Lots of folks are released the day following their surgery. Some folks are there as long as 5 days. I had to stay 2 nights. Every person's experience is unique and you need to realize this whole thing is a process that takes time. It's important to note that you will be sent home with several medications which you'll need to set up a schedule to take throughout the day. Proper care and cleanliness of the Foley will also be required. Using soap and water, wash around the meatus at the entry point of the Foley catheter. Rinse well. Place a small amount of bacitracin ointment around the meatus. Do this four times a day. This is necessary for health as well as hygiene reasons.

Don't try to rush your recovery. Just when you think you're progressing very well, something comes up to remind you that you're not quite ready to resume your life. For me, last night, almost 3 weeks since my surgery, I rolled over in bed onto my stomach. Wrong move. My body quickly reminded me that I have 5 incisions that are still healing. Then today, I felt I needed to vacate my bowels, on my way to do that I had a gas bubble that sat itself right over where my prostate had been. Had I not been standing next to a wall to catch myself; I would have fallen to the floor in pain. Healing takes time.

What your doctor should tell you before releasing you is that you can't drive until after the catheter is removed. This is important to follow. Additionally, your doctor should tell you not to lift anything over 10 pounds (or, as my doctor told me, "Nothing heavier than a gallon of milk"). The reason for this is that your incisions can take months to fully heal. They may look and feel good, but these are weak points in your abdomen and, depending on how much you exert yourself, could result in a hernia. If you think you had problems before, a hernia can elevate things ten-fold. While surgeons use differing processes, many are now closing the incisions with a type of glue. In my case, during the surgery they inserted a type of glue into the incisions that is made to get pushed out of the wound as it starts to heal. It kind of looks like an ointment, or salve. To someone unaware of this product is can look a bit like an infection. It is not as its presence is normal. Having someone watching the wounds for unusual swelling or redness is encouraged in case of potential infection issues.

Before leaving the hospital, they'll provide you with another large catheter bag and one or more smaller bags that can be strapped to your leg to wear under clothes if you decide to go out. Advice for the leg strap: don't strap it on too tight, trust me on this. Changing out the catheter bags is easy in concept, but I found it really isn't an obvious process. Ask the nurses at the hospital to show you and the person who'll be staying with you how to switch out the bags. You'll be glad you did. Anywhere you move you'll need to first grab the catheter bag, then move. I forgot this a couple of times. Luckily, I didn't pull on the catheter in me, only on the bag. To aid in proper flow, you'll need to keep the catheter bag below the level of your abdomen. As a suggestion, keep a bucket next to your bed so your wife/girlfriend/whoever is caring for you can empty the bag while you're sleeping.

Two weeks post-op follow-up appointment and catheter removal
Fourteen days with a catheter sucked. Catheters suck. You've got leakage. You have to constantly work the hose down to the bag to get the urine into the bag (seems like vacuum issues occurred prohibiting the flow). You've got discomfort and sometimes pain from the catheter up your urethra into your bladder. There are times you feel you've got a full bladder but nothing will come out. Yep, catheters suck. Even so, my brother told me that the removal was "the worse pain he's ever experienced" and a buddy told me it hurt like hell to be removed. As much as I wanted the catheter out, I was scared of those few seconds of pain it would take to make it happen. Maybe it was just a skilled nurse or maybe I was especially blessed, but the removal for me was mildly uncomfortable for 2 seconds, nothing more. The catheter itself had caused me considerably more pain at times while it was in than the removal caused. Whew!

Now, I don't know if it's because the urethra got stretched by the catheter or what, but one-week post-catheter I'm still experiencing times where I'm leaking and I don't even feel the leaking. And, yep, I'm leaking a lot. I'm getting a little bit of control some of the time. One situation where I have no control is when I stand up from a sitting or lying position. I'm going through a LOT of pads. This brings up another consideration: smell. That much urine in all of those pads/diapers will create lots of urine smell. My wife came up with the brilliant idea to put those items into doggy poop bags and tie them tight. Problem solved.

As my wife keeps reminding me when I express my frustration over not being able to control my urinary continence, "It takes time". Some men have it all under control in a month or two while others deal with at least some amount of leakage for years. Practice the Kegel's several times a day and understand that it takes time.

Pathology Report
As I said earlier, don't wait to decide on which treatment you want to pursue and don't wait to get it done. My urologist pushed my surgical date up by a month because he felt it was needed, with nothing other than the time it'd been since the initial diagnosis and the new PSA level. At the 2-week post-surgical/catheter removal appointment he came to see me once the catheter was removed. He had the pathology report from the surgery and he went through the information with me. Thirty percent of the prostate had cancer in it and 5% of the prostate was Gleeson Grade Group 5 "Very High" risk. The report also indicated that a "bubble" of cancer had worked itself to the outer edge of the prostate and was ready to pop at any time which would have spread the cancer around my body. Had I waited for the original November 21st surgical date, instead of getting it completed on October 24th as I did, the bubble likely would have popped by then. Whatever drove the urologist to push forward the surgical date by one month saved my life. I almost waited too long. I am truly blessed!

Going back to work and resuming normal life
Today it's been 3 weeks since I underwent my prostatectomy (prostate removal surgery). I know I've still got a lot of recovery ahead of me and after my episode of pain today I know I'm not physically ready to return to work. I made arrangements before surgery to be off work for 6 weeks. I knew at the time that I might be ready sooner or I might need even more time. I based my 6 weeks off of the average time needed by the 1/2 dozen men I'd talked to that have gone through this process. Even when I return to work it will be 6 months or more where I'll need to watch myself and not over-exert myself physically. Each person is different. Some need more time; some need much less. The one thing I know now is I'm the only one who can/will/should advocate for my own health and well-being and I know that pushing to do things before my body is ready for it will take a toll, I'll pay a price for later. It isn't worth it so I'll continue to allow my body the time needed to fully recover.

If you're reading this because you're dealing with this same issue, I wish you the best and pray you'll recover and "be cured" as I now likely am. If you need to talk with me for comfort or understanding of what lays in front of you, I encourage you to reach out to me.


Ginsue / Thomas
Prostate Cancer Survivor

Great-Kazoo
11-14-2023, 23:23
Very nice and important write up. Appreciate you sharing this , hopefully every male above 50 doesn't ignore the words of experience.

Having a history of cancer in the family, we were able to "nip it in the bud" so to speak about 12 yrs ago.

rtr
11-15-2023, 00:06
I’m curious if radiation therapy was discussed as a treatment for your case at all?

Thanks for sharing your important story.

theGinsue
11-15-2023, 00:11
I’m curious if radiation therapy was discussed as a treatment for your case at all?

Thanks for sharing your important story.

Yes, it was an option (See "Option 4" above). I did a lot of research on my own about potential treatment options. Right now, in the U.S., there are only 3 approved treatment options unless you get accepted into a study. I'd spoken with 2 individuals who took the radiation treatment route, and talked to a few others who know someone closely who received that treatment. After that, and my own research, I determined that the risks associated with the radiation treatment didn't work for me any more than going with chemo.

rfenster
11-15-2023, 00:22
Thank you for sharing-this is an amazing amount of information.

Glad that I don't have to worry about this since I'm only 27....(what's that? I'm 57? OK....I'll ask about a doing a PSA screen)

Thank you Ginsue

Bailey Guns
11-15-2023, 06:38
Dang, Ginsue... I'm sorry you had to endure all this and I hope your recovery is complete. Thanks for taking the time to put this out there.

StagLefty
11-15-2023, 08:11
Thanks for the write-up Ginsue. I've had a notable increase in consistent urination this past year and during my yearly check up asked for the PS test to be done as part of my bloodwork. Came back okay but I did start taking a medication to control urination better. At 77 and just getting my first grandchild last weekend I want to be around a little longer. Thank again !!!

BPTactical
11-15-2023, 10:10
Thomas-
Even though I give you incessant grief what you put forth here deserves to be published in a way that all men (and their partners) can read it.
Nicely done and heal up.*








*its amazing what you can come up with when you have nothing but time and can't rub one out.....[Coffee]

Martinjmpr
11-15-2023, 12:40
OK, I went through this in 2022 and I'm surprised your doctor didn't recommend EXTERNAL radiation. My brother who is 1 year older than me and a family friend both went through this before I did and both chose radiation, and that's what I chose as well.

There is a family history of prostate cancer (dad had it at 62 and my brother was diagnosed at 58.) So when I was diagnosed at 59, it wasn't a surprise.

There are different types of radiation therapy. The one you talked about, INTERNAL radiation, where they plant a radioactive "seed" is one but I opted for the targeted EXTERNAL radiation treatment. There are a couple of different kinds, one is called "CyberKnife" and consists of 5, 20 minute treatments. However, that was not approved by my insurer (TriCare) so I went with the older type of radiation which was 20, 5 minute treatments over the space of a little less than a month.

My dad did the prostate removal but that was back in 2002 and I don't know that they had the same radiation options. It is a major surgery and one I did not want to have unless it was absolutely necessary. After discussing it with my doctor, I went with the radiation treatment.

My treatment was completed in April 2022. At the time of my diagnosis my PSA was 6.5 and my Gleason score was 7.

As of last month, my PSA is down to 1.4 and seems to be dropping. My brother (who was treated a year before me and had the CyberKnife) is down below zero.

My side effects have been minimal. Worst one is low testosterone but the doctors won't start treating that until my PSA drops below .5.

Martinjmpr
11-15-2023, 12:41
I’m curious if radiation therapy was discussed as a treatment for your case at all?

Thanks for sharing your important story.

Yes, I don't see targeted external radiation mentioned. That's what I had done.

Martinjmpr
11-15-2023, 12:47
At the risk of hijacking the thread (which is not my intention) I'll mention the EXTERNAL radiation treatment that I had.

They had to implant some "targets" which are actually made of gold. The process is similar to the one for the prostate biopsy, so not fun but not terrible either (let's just say I don't find "anal probe" jokes to be terribly funny anymore and leave it at that. ;) )

But once that was done, the treatment itself could not have been easier: I'd drive to the clinic (Rocky Mtn Cancer Center), they'd have me undo my belt and pull my pants down slightly (I didn't need to actually undress) then lay on the table for 5 minutes while the little radiation zapper thing moved around, and then I was done. No pain or discomfort, it couldn't have been easier.

I did have some issues with frequent urination, this is due to irritation of the bladder, but they put me on Flow Max for that. I still take it, every other day, but I very rarely have to urinate in the middle of the night.

So if you're in this situation, I'd recommend you consider external radiation. It's the least-invasive of all the procedures and at least for me as well as my brother, it seems to be working well.

JoeRoss
11-15-2023, 14:23
Exceptionally well written, and like Bert says, should be published for others to read.

I have a friend who has numbers at the "7 - 8" level. He is over 70 years old. He had a biopsy done and it was positive. He has discussed the different options with his doctor (who recommends surgery) which is the option my friend wants to go for. But he is apprehensive about the procedure (of course) the fact that his wife passed away a few years ago (from a different kind of cancer) he has no one to care for him with the post operative help, that it sounds like he would need. I keep telling him what the alternative is, and offering the limited help that I could provide, he keeps saying.....I know, I know.

Hoping for a complete recovery for you Thomas.
As your wife says..."It takes time"



Edited to add that I will talk to my friend about the External option.

Doc45
11-15-2023, 15:53
I’ve read less well written articles in medical journals-thank you for the write up and sending best wishes you recover quickly. I just turned 67 and get checked yearly though thankfully pc is one medical issue that doesn’t run in my family-we have plenty of others.

theGinsue
11-15-2023, 20:53
Thomas-
Even though I give you incessant grief what you put forth here deserves to be published in a way that all men (and their partners) can read it.
Nicely done and heal up.*

That was my intention for writing this. Because I know this has and will effect many men and their partners, I wanted to help them understand everything I saw and experienced.

After my diagnosis, I reached out to everyone I knew that had gone through this so I'd have the best picture of the options and what I'd be facing.

You know first-hand that I was pretty damned scared. Your "this too shall pass" messages provided me with some comfort. I tried relying on my faith in God and turning it all over to Him, but I'm stubborn and fear has a way of gripping me tightly (good thing I don't scare easy!).




*its amazing what you can come up with when you have nothing but time and can't rub one out.....[Coffee]

That is SO wrong.
...and 100% accurate.

You always keep me in stitches with laughter brother!




OK, I went through this in 2022 and I'm surprised your doctor didn't recommend EXTERNAL radiation. My brother who is 1 year older than me and a family friend both went through this before I did and both chose radiation, and that's what I chose as well.

There is a family history of prostate cancer (dad had it at 62 and my brother was diagnosed at 58.) So when I was diagnosed at 59, it wasn't a surprise.

There are different types of radiation therapy. The one you talked about, INTERNAL radiation, where they plant a radioactive "seed" is one but I opted for the targeted EXTERNAL radiation treatment. There are a couple of different kinds, one is called "CyberKnife" and consists of 5, 20 minute treatments. However, that was not approved by my insurer (TriCare) so I went with the older type of radiation which was 20, 5 minute treatments over the space of a little less than a month.

My dad did the prostate removal but that was back in 2002 and I don't know that they had the same radiation options. It is a major surgery and one I did not want to have unless it was absolutely necessary. After discussing it with my doctor, I went with the radiation treatment.

My treatment was completed in April 2022. At the time of my diagnosis my PSA was 6.5 and my Gleason score was 7.

As of last month, my PSA is down to 1.4 and seems to be dropping. My brother (who was treated a year before me and had the CyberKnife) is down below zero.

My side effects have been minimal. Worst one is low testosterone but the doctors won't start treating that until my PSA drops below .5.


At the risk of hijacking the thread (which is not my intention) I'll mention the EXTERNAL radiation treatment that I had.

They had to implant some "targets" which are actually made of gold. The process is similar to the one for the prostate biopsy, so not fun but not terrible either (let's just say I don't find "anal probe" jokes to be terribly funny anymore and leave it at that. ;) )

But once that was done, the treatment itself could not have been easier: I'd drive to the clinic (Rocky Mtn Cancer Center), they'd have me undo my belt and pull my pants down slightly (I didn't need to actually undress) then lay on the table for 5 minutes while the little radiation zapper thing moved around, and then I was done. No pain or discomfort, it couldn't have been easier.

I did have some issues with frequent urination, this is due to irritation of the bladder, but they put me on Flow Max for that. I still take it, every other day, but I very rarely have to urinate in the middle of the night.

So if you're in this situation, I'd recommend you consider external radiation. It's the least-invasive of all the procedures and at least for me as well as my brother, it seems to be working well.


I don't feel you're hijacking the thread at all. In fact, this s a topic I think we all need to be aware of and to know ALL of the options in front of us. I thank you for sharing this information and your experience. Knowledge is power and when it applies to your health, it's priceless!

This is the first I've heard of the EXTERNAL radiation option. My urologist, treatment and surgery has all been through Evans Army Community Hospital at Ft. Carson and external was never mentioned.

Even with all of the research I'd done on treatments, effects, etc. I never came across anything discussing the external option. I actually wish I'd known about it as I might have considered going that route.

Brother, I'm very happy to hear that you too have successfully beat this thing!

ETA: I hope you don't mind, but I took what you wrote about the external radiation treatment, tweaked it a bit and added it in to my OP article.



Exceptionally well written, and like Bert says, should be published for others to read.

I have a friend who has numbers at the "7 - 8" level. He is over 70 years old. He had a biopsy done and it was positive. He has discussed the different options with his doctor (who recommends surgery) which is the option my friend wants to go for. But he is apprehensive about the procedure (of course) the fact that his wife passed away a few years ago (from a different kind of cancer) he has no one to care for him with the post operative help, that it sounds like he would need. I keep telling him what the alternative is, and offering the limited help that I could provide, he keeps saying.....I know, I know.

Hoping for a complete recovery for you Thomas.
As your wife says..."It takes time"

Edited to add that I will talk to my friend about the External option.


If anyone knows of a medium where I could share/publish this to really get the word out, I'd definitely consider using it. I'll even add the information about the external radiation option as it's important folks are aware of all of their options. I want this information shared as widely as possible, as long as I maintain credit for writing it.

I'm sorry to hear that your friend is facing this right now, but PLEASE encourage him to get treatment right away. If prostate cancer spreads it quickly goes into both your bones and into your other glands (there are actually many glands near/around the prostate). Once it spreads it is more difficult - and more painful to eradicate. While I feared the treatment, I feared the effects of it spreading, including dying, more.

thebolt
11-16-2023, 08:26
We should all appreciate your openess and personal sacrifice in sharing your experiences and research. I assure you that your post will get many men to move forward for testing. I've lost two close friends due to prostrate cancer and it was a terrible experience for them to go through. We will all go through prostate cancer at some point and your post is a great inspiration to us all.

Your post will save lives and not many people can achieve that status in life.

Thank you Ginsue!

BPTactical
11-16-2023, 11:09
One thing I would like to add to Thomas's articulation on the subject- While PSA scores are an important indicator of potential problems they are not an absolute and are only an indicator. If you have a PSA screen and it comes back elevated don't flip your lid.
Your not gonna die.
You don't necessarily have prostate cancer.
You might not have anything other than a few years under your belt.
PSA's can be elevated for any number of reasons.

For Chrissake DO NOT GET ON THE INTERNET!
There is so much inaccurate information out there you will be convinced that your gonna croak in 5.37 days.

Find a competent Urologist and follow through.

theGinsue
11-16-2023, 13:52
100% right Bert. I should have articulated that in my write-up. I'll add that to my next re-write.


ETA: I've added Bert's important comment into the write-up (tweaked it a tad to fit in with what I had).

BlasterBob
11-16-2023, 18:08
Prostate C hit me like a ton of bricks back in 2010. Gleason numbers were 3+4=7 and another Pathologist advised was 4+3=7. We went up to Downers Grove, IL and had Brachytherapy which consisted of 80 some radioactive pellets poked into my Prostate. Was just a "piece of cake" for me. They had me drink a LOT of liquids before letting me go home. Should have taken a pee before driving home but kept putting off until we could find a gas station to use their facilities. Got up to the urinal and had to pee so bad, thought I was going to have an explosion of my old Bladder. Was shocked to find that when I got dressed after the procedure that I put my boxers on backwards. With a lot of fishing around, I just barely made it. The next day, drove from Downers Grove to Trinidad and for the entire trip it felt like I was sitting on a golf ball.
Now, then about 8 years later, I had Bladder C. Treatment was Chemo and Radiation which apparently killed the Cancer but it destroyed my Bladder to the point that I now have a Foley catheter 24 hours a day for the rest of my days (I turn 87 next month) Shrunk my bladder down to the size of a walnut. It is a real bother but beats the alternative. Get your Prostate checked as suggested.
Blaster Bob

beast556
11-16-2023, 18:52
Mr G
Thank you for writing this up. My dad has prostate cancer and is stubborn and doesn't trust doctors so he is not gonna get treatment for it. My younger brother is 42 and just beat colon cancer from the looks of it. After reading this I'm going to insist on a psa test at my next annual check up. When I asked last time he didnt seem concerned and said I was to young still to get testing done.

theGinsue
11-17-2023, 13:21
Damn Bob, I'm sorry you've had to go through all of that - but I'm VERY happy that you're still here with us.

Beast, you're in your 40's. While there's a good chance you're in the clear, it's always better to know for sure - especially with a family history. Good on you for planning to insist on getting checked out! As for your dad, my guess is he's young enough where he's got a lot of years ahead of him. Prostate cancer is very survivable - if you do something about it. I came too damned close to waiting too long and allowing the cancer the chance to spread. There are a lot of guys with stories of having to fight it after it's spread and none of those stories are pleasant. Fighting cancer just plain sucks! Please encourage your dad to take action. Let him know you'd like him to be around for another couple of decades or more.

Any way you look at it, cancer is scary. My perspective is that knowledge is power and the more you know about what to look for, and what to expect, the less scary and the better the prognosis it can be.

I think the biggest take away's from my write up I'm hoping folks with have are to be your own health advocate and demand testing and to know what your options are should a bad result be presented.

I've been doing a LOT of research about various types of cancer over the last year. One of the things I've run across in several articles recently is researchers making the statement that "we're seeing cancer behaving in ways we've never seen before". To this, I've also read repeatedly that cancer rates are going way up in the United States. I suspect this it tied to our diets and lifestyles.

One of my hunting partners, the wife of the hunting partner that just had his prostate removed in July due to cancer, was recently tested and it appears she has cervical cancer and masses within her breasts that they'll be looking into shortly. She was driven to get herself checked following her husbands positive cancer diagnosis.

About the time I got diagnosed, I had another friend diagnosed with Stage 3 Lung Cancer. She'd never smoked in her life and has maintained a good life style. She's since received treatment and it appears the cancer is in remission. The timing of her diagnosis added to my fears as I had some odd symptoms, which my primary care doctor (PCM) noticed as well AFTER I insisted on getting checked. My PCM's words to me practically paralyzed me - she told me "I think you may have lung cancer". I'd smoked a pack a day since 1999. After a CT scan of my torso I was told my lungs were clear - no cancer. Feeling I'd just dodged a bullet I finally quit smoking on January 2nd of this year. If I can stay clear for 7 years I'm told my risk of lung cancer is no greater than it is for the average non-smoker.

This site isn't just an anonymous online group of users. This site is a community of like-minded (to a degree) members. Each member here is valued and many of us form life-long friendships. Life is already short enough and we all need to do everything in our power to ensure it isn't made shorter by something we could have either prevented or treated. And, whether you stay active on this site or eventually drift away into the ether, I'd like to believe that you will do so in good health for a long time to come.

BlasterBob
11-17-2023, 13:55
In my post, I neglected to mention that I have had Cancer of: Prostate, Kidney, Bladder, Colon, Bladder AGAIN. With all those Cancer episodes, I can now claim to know more than just a little tiny bit about Cancer and it’s treatments. PLEASE guys, get checked out promptly. [blaster]

Fentonite
11-17-2023, 16:07
Much respect to you, Thomas. You took all the pain and fear you went through and turned it into an amazing reference to help others. I’ll be printing it and having it available for anyone I come across that could use the knowledge and insight.

theGinsue
11-17-2023, 16:41
Thank you brother Jeff!

wctriumph
11-19-2023, 17:16
Appreciate the advice.

rondog
11-20-2023, 00:13
Beware of anything called TUMT, unless you just like pissing yourself randomly.....

VolksDragon
11-20-2023, 11:59
This is excellent advice and wisdom, brother! Thanks for taking the time to share.

Erni
11-20-2023, 19:49
Thank you for sharing. Until this thread I had no idea what the PSA in my physical stood for.

Mykidsdad
11-21-2023, 08:58
Ginsue:

First, thank you for you candor and being humble enough to share your experience. To echo many that have responded here, we too have a family member going through this as well. The details that you have chronicled serve as a starting point for many to understand the complexities of this illness. You speak the truth when you state that one needs to be their own healthcare advocate.

For those of us in this community that spend far too much time and effort researching, debating, studying, arguing and otherwise preparing for every possible SHTF scenario with hardware and tactical solutions, your experience serves as a not so gentle reminder that we all need to ensure the status of our most important asset, our health. All of the "prepping", training, stockpiling, range time, and dollars spent on EDC and the latest high speed low drag equipment is wasted if the health of the operator is compromised.

May all the members of this group and those that the hold close enjoy good health.

Thanks again Ginsue.