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O2HeN2
03-12-2024, 10:26
So rarely does a scenario that you've thought about for years actually come to pass exactly the way you envisioned it, but such a thing happened to me yesterday when I was called in for jury duty.

I, like [I hope] all members of this 'board think that many of the firearm laws on the books are unconstitutional. I've rolled around in my head what I would do if I was asked to pass judgment on a law that I personally felt was unconstitutional. There is of course jury nullification which is the big hammer - and something to avoid if there are better ways.

Well yesterday I found out just how that situation played out for me.

I was called into Judge Erin Sokol's (Division 10's District Court Chief Judge - Colorado Springs) courtroom along with about 50 other potential jury members, which immediately set off alarms that this was going to be a reasonably big case. There was a real court recorder - another sign of a big case (many courts are just electronically recorded these days).

Sokol impressed me, she was friendly, smiled a lot (I like people that smile), set people at ease, explained things very clearly and treated all the jurors very kindly - yet was also efficient and businesslike.

First order of business was for all the potential jurors, en masse, to swear to tell the truth.

Then she read the charges:


Illegal possession of a firearm
Discharging a firearm within city limits
Child abuse (there was a child in the car when the gun was discharged).


I immediately realized that the first charge was exactly what I had given careful thought to over the years and that I could not find the defendant guilty of that charge because I felt it was unconstitutional. However, I was unsure how to proceed from that point.

The next couple hours were spent finding out who had personal connections or bias with the police, witnesses and defendant. Who could not be impartial, etc. In all cases Judge Sokol carefully questioned anyone who had a connection or bias to determine if it could be put aside or would it color their decision in any way. Some were revealed to be biased, some not. She'd spend probably a minimum of five minutes questioning the juror on finer and finer nuances until the juror came up with a hard answer. It was pretty impressive.

She also gave the jurors a chance to speak in private if they were uncomfortable. About four chose that option and she ceased questioning them at that point and told them that she'd speak to them later.

Finally, at the end of this process she asked something along the lines of "Is there anyone who cannot judge the defendant on these charges, according to my instructions?" The "according to my instructions" was the clincher, and my hand went up (I was the only one).

She asked me why. At this point I made a personal decision, others may choose to do differently. Do I tell her my constitutional reasoning, potentially poisoning the entire jury pool, or tell her privately? I told her I'd like to speak to her privately.

We were given a break immediately afterwards and the people that asked to speak privately were told to wait near the door. One by one the "private" people were called in. After 5-10 minutes they'd re-emerge. I'm sure they were each questioned in the manner others were questioned, the judge asking more and more detailed questions until the juror themselves gave a hard answer on if they'd be biased or not.

I was called in. Present was the Judge, prosecutor, defendant, his two defense attorneys, and their two PIs.

I was nervous, so the following is an approximation of what I said.

Judge Sokol: "Why do you feel you can't judge the defendant on the charges?"

Me: "I could not find the defendant guilty on the charge of illegal possession of a firearm because I feel that law is unconstitutional."

At this point Sokol broke into a huge, sincere (not malicious) grin and asked:

Sokol: "Even though Colorado law states it's illegal for a felon to possess a firearm?" *

Me: "Yes, you ask us to follow the law, and the Constitution is the ultimate law and the possession law is in conflict with it."

At some point I mentioned how the Constitution was written for the people and its arbitration starts with the people.

She then asked if the prosecution or defense had any questions for me - they didn't and still smiling thanked me for divulging this information and dismissed me. Bang. Unlike the five or more minutes for anyone else, I was over and done with in about a minute, two tops.

When we were called back in, about 12 people were let go from the jury pool, including me.

Someday I would really like to serve on a jury, but that case was not the one for me.

Note that some might say I should have kept quiet and used jury nullification for the illegal possession charge. But I feel (again, personal decision) that not responding in the affirmative (raising my hand) to the question "Is there anyone who cannot judge the defendant on these charges, according to my instructions?" would have violated my oath to be truthful.

...and that's my jury experience.

* Later I came to realize that when Sokol asked "Even though Colorado law states it's illegal for a felon to possess a firearm?" she gave away that the defendant was a convicted felon. My guess is that she had already decided to release me from the jury at that point and was just interested in just how principled my constitutional position was.

ray1970
03-12-2024, 11:59
lol. I saw several people like yourself kicked out of jury selection when I got put on an attempted murder trial.

I was glad to be on that jury. The guy was definitely guilty of some stuff but they were really trying to hang him. Since a firearm was involved and every jury member but me was totally ignorant to the realities of firearms I could inject some logic and reason into their decision making. I don?t remember all of the details but had I not been on the jury the guy likely would have been convicted of first degree murder instead of whatever lesser charge we ended up agreeing to.

Had you been a little more of a team player maybe you would have been picked and could have been a voice of reason in the jury room.

O2HeN2
03-12-2024, 12:37
"Had you been a little more of a team player and perjure yourself..."

I figured I'd get a response like yours. No thanks.

O2

Ps. I'm willing to take bets that the guy's going down on all counts. We'll probably know by Friday if the Judge's estimate holds.

ray1970
03-12-2024, 13:08
"Had you been a little more of a team player and perjure yourself..."



I don?t believe I was encouraging you to lie or be dishonest. I guess if playing by the rules set forth offends your sensibilities then by all means feel free not to play.

Anyhow, don?t take my post as any sort of personal attack because I assure you it wasn?t. Hugs.

.455_Hunter
03-12-2024, 13:59
In my one and only jury experience, I served as foreman, and we acquitted the defendant. After the verdict, we called the prosecutor and the public defender back into the jury room, and in front of the judge, read them both the riot act on incompetence and wasting tax payer resources. The judge was impressed, and I have not been called back for jury duty again. I wonder why?

Little Dutch
03-12-2024, 17:08
For about 20 years I was summoned every year. I was always seated and questioned. Now it is only about every other year. I'm still seated and questioned every time.

I only made the cut one time, and it was a colossal waste of 3 days.

I think you did right. I get dismissed when they ask me about guns as well. The last one was after I answered along the lines of "yes, guns are designed to kill. That's why I carry one". The state was trying a youth for armed robbery and a list of other charges.

eddiememphis
03-12-2024, 17:36
There are many laws out there I find unconstitutional, but I'm not an absolutist. Absolutism is not practical in a society as large and diverse as ours.

I believe felons should not be allowed to possess a firearm.

They have shown a willingness to break one or more laws and imprisonment seldom works as rehabilitation.

Should there be a path where they could eventually have that right restored? Sure- I have no idea what it would be because I don't really care.

Oscar77
03-12-2024, 18:19
OP:
I recently had a juror duty experience.
It was a sex assault to child.
They asked the same of questions and released various people.
Like your situation they asked obvious questions to the case ...........ie. "Could you find someone guilty of the crime of sex assault to a child without physical evidence like DNA?"

I think ............ just my HO............. be honest and if those were your feelings, speak up and be done.
What I DONT like is people trying any excuse to get out of said duty.
IMHO.......... thats crappy, not someone like you being honest.

gnihcraes
03-12-2024, 18:54
As. Note, court reporters will be used for all trials. Electronic recording for most everything else. It is unreliable.

MarkCO
03-12-2024, 21:51
There are many laws out there I find unconstitutional, but I'm not an absolutist. Absolutism is not practical in a society as large and diverse as ours.

I believe felons should not be allowed to possess a firearm.

They have shown a willingness to break one or more laws and imprisonment seldom works as rehabilitation.

Should there be a path where they could eventually have that right restored? Sure- I have no idea what it would be because I don't really care.

Agree.

I was sure I'd never get seated on a Jury, and ended up the Jury foreman. I had testified as an expert on another case in front of the Judge, knew the training officer of the officer who made the arrest and several other "get out of jury duty" things. Nope, they seated me. Wife has been seated twice, once County and once Federal.

FromMyColdDeadHand
03-13-2024, 07:06
I think you nicely skated the line between all your obligations.

O2HeN2
03-13-2024, 10:36
I think you nicely skated the line between all your obligations.

This is called damming with faint praise.

My obligation was to the truth. I stated what I sincerely believe in. I would have loved to be on the jury, but I truly thought the law was in conflict with the constitution.

This was by no means an attempt to avoid my obligations.

Seems there's an assumption that I was trying to "get out" of serving on the jury. That was not the case.

O2

O2HeN2
03-13-2024, 10:41
A friend just told me what happened to him during his jury selection.

It was a domestic violence case and they were asking all the men "Would you hit a woman?" to which all were responding "No".

He got up and said "Yes". Everyone was shocked, and they asked him to expand on his answer.

His reply was along the lines "If I'm in fear of bodily harm from anyone, including a woman, I will fight back. So yes, I'd hit a woman."

Every man from that point forward answered "Yes" to the question.

O2

TFOGGER
03-13-2024, 11:00
My jury duty experience last June was in a civil trial. I was certain I would not be selected...and ended up as foreman on the jury. It was a case of an Amazon contractor being sued by one of their subcontractors over payment for snow removal services. The defendant's defense claim was that the subcontractor failed to fulfill some minor contractual obligations, not related to the quality of the snow removal service, and therefore they were not obligated to pay anything for the services rendered. It took us about 2 hours of deliberations to find for the plaintiff, the main question being how much of the claimed amount that they would have to pay. We awarded 100% of the suit amount, plus attorney's fees.

ray1970
03-13-2024, 11:06
A friend just told me what happened to him during his jury selection.

It was a domestic violence case and they were asking all the men "Would you hit a woman?" to which all were responding "No".

He got up and said "Yes". Everyone was shocked, and they asked him to expand on his answer.

His reply was along the lines "If I'm in fear of bodily harm from anyone, including a woman, I will fight back. So yes, I'd hit a woman."

Every man from that point forward answered "Yes" to the question.

O2

If she?s man enough to throw a punch, she better be man enough to take one. Am I right?

rondog
03-13-2024, 15:07
I'm 68, and have never been contacted about jury duty, anywhere I've lived. Guess keeping a low profile pays off.....

asystejs
03-13-2024, 16:36
I was on a jury 25+ years ago for a case about sexual assault on minors.
The guy was obviously guilty but two of the jurors
had a hard time voting guilty, even with all the evidence presented.

After the trial, the judge and prosecutors met with the jurors to answer questions.

One of the unsure jurors asked the judge if he thought the defendant was guilty.
The judge said, "Absolutely, no doubt at all".
The unsure juror replied with something along the lines of
"Thank you, that's a huge weight off my shoulders".

DDT951
03-13-2024, 20:11
A friend just told me what happened to him during his jury selection.

It was a domestic violence case and they were asking all the men "Would you hit a woman?" to which all were responding "No".

He got up and said "Yes". Everyone was shocked, and they asked him to expand on his answer.

His reply was along the lines "If I'm in fear of bodily harm from anyone, including a woman, I will fight back. So yes, I'd hit a woman."

Every man from that point forward answered "Yes" to the question.

O2

A different, yet truthful answer to judge asking about her "following her instructions" would have been:

I can judge defendant impartially according the laws of the State of Colorado and the United States Constitution and not according to instructions from another person.

arbol
03-13-2024, 20:24
The judge doesn't care. The people that care are the prosecution and the defense.

You are excluding yourself from being a juror to a fellow man, and peer.

-John

XJ
03-13-2024, 21:39
I am always shown the door after filling in the questionnaire, and it is not because I deliberately answer with anything special

[Dunno]

brutal
03-13-2024, 23:14
If she?s man enough to throw a punch, she better be man enough to take one. Am I right?

Or refuses to make me a sammich.

Oscar77
03-14-2024, 09:26
A friend just told me what happened to him during his jury selection.

It was a domestic violence case and they were asking all the men "Would you hit a woman?" to which all were responding "No".

He got up and said "Yes". Everyone was shocked, and they asked him to expand on his answer.

His reply was along the lines "If I'm in fear of bodily harm from anyone, including a woman, I will fight back. So yes, I'd hit a woman."

Every man from that point forward answered "Yes" to the question.

O2

And did he stay on the jury?