View Full Version : Yikes! Could a hacker make your phone explode like the pagers?
"According to information obtained by LBCI, initial reports suggest the pager server was compromised, leading to the installation of a script that caused an overload. This likely resulted in the overheating of the lithium battery, which then exploded. The physical damage sustained by the device?s user can vary from severe to minor, depending on the area in contact with the device."
And is there the same risk to EVs?
At least my e-bike is safe.
kidicarus13
09-17-2024, 10:27
9 dead, 3K injured.
I have a hard time believing a pager battery has enough potential energy to do what they did. Too much risk that a good majority weren’t charged enough etc., to release load at the needed amount to cause injury. I’d bet they somehow purpose built small charges in and disseminated the devices through a mole or several, and once they knew a certain amount were in circulation and operational (unit 8200 would find this part to be child’s play), they simply executed at the time of their choosing.
Seems more likely it was a very well run Intel op that took place over time and with a mole to handle logistics. Blaming the battery with a mere malicious script seems like a good obfuscation of their real methods.
AirbornePathogen
09-17-2024, 11:06
I have a hard time believing a pager battery has enough potential energy to do what they did. Too much risk that a good majority weren’t charged enough etc., to release load at the needed amount to cause injury. I’d bet they somehow purpose built small charges in and disseminated the devices through a mole or several, and once they knew a certain amount were in circulation and operational (unit 8200 would find this part to be child’s play), they simply executed at the time of their choosing.
Seems more likely it was a very well run Intel op that took place over time and with a mole to handle logistics. Blaming the battery with a mere malicious script seems like a good obfuscation of their real methods.
There are people that still carry pagers?
I think CS is on the right track. I remember in the mid 90s Mossad swapped out a known terrorist's cell phone with another that they added some C4 to, then detonated it when he was on a call.
ChadAmberg
09-17-2024, 11:53
There are people that still carry pagers?
I think CS is on the right track. I remember in the mid 90s Mossad swapped out a known terrorist's cell phone with another that they added some C4 to, then detonated it when he was on a call.
They carry pagers because it's one way technology, there's no way to track like with cell phones pinging the towers.
There are people that still carry pagers?
I think CS is on the right track. I remember in the mid 90s Mossad swapped out a known terrorist's cell phone with another that they added some C4 to, then detonated it when he was on a call.
Hezbollah, apparently. Makes sense. Simple rotating codes that don’t require a 2 way connection. Fire and forget. No association to any one particular person if they rotate the pagers in a cell.
eddiememphis
09-17-2024, 14:19
This is the coolest thing I have heard about in a long time.
I don't know the logistics of it- if they were manufactured with a small explosive charge and then distributed or if they just figured out a way to make existing tech go boom. And then to make several thousand go off simultaneously. Genius.
This seems more likely to instill fear in Hezbollah than F35's buzzing overhead.
The message is clear- Don't fuck with Israel.
BushMasterBoy
09-17-2024, 15:57
Yeah, there is an app for that...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPLDpwpXy5M
asystejs
09-17-2024, 16:23
There are people that still carry pagers?
I think CS is on the right track. I remember in the mid 90s Mossad swapped out a known terrorist's cell phone with another that they added some C4 to, then detonated it when he was on a call.
It was reportedly 15 grams of RDX
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahya_Ayyash
It was reportedly 15 grams of RDX
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahya_Ayyash
It was 20 grams of PETN... attached to the back of the motherboard "at the production level."
I think that was an amazing bit of work by the IDF. They are calling it an intelligence failure for the terrorists (duh).
I can imagine these terrorists change pagers or cell phones often to evade IDF eavesdropping. Somebody, somewhere, somehow added an extra little component in that shipment of pagers from who knows where or when. This should be interesting to follow.
TEAMRICO
09-17-2024, 18:03
Word is they sent the codes that caused the explosions. 58008(BOOBS) or 71077345(SHELLOIL).
BushMasterBoy
09-17-2024, 19:23
I heard the code was "OU812"
ruthabagah
09-17-2024, 19:44
That was brilliant! Not the first time the mossad used something like that.
BushMasterBoy
09-17-2024, 20:40
On a serious note, I speculate that the pagers were on a timer. They all went off on about the same time. Link below for operating manual.
https://neurology.wustl.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Pager-User-Guide.pdf
They had to make sure they were operational. They could not risk disrupting their own control of supply chain. No timer imo. Just straight time of choosing and send the signal. If timer, only enacted once operational for the purpose.
Supply chain attack. Not a timer. 100% of them are not always on and 100% of them are not always going to receive the page immediately. I would put ZERO credit in the message sent or what specific kind of explosives / method, every internet gaming troll out there is on discord trying to impress their friends by pretending they have CIA contacts. None of that will be accurate (unless by sheer accident). Later on, that will be known, but then you'd have to trust other equally unreliable information. So, suffice to say, the level of accuracy we'll have is that a fake circuit board component had a small amount of legit explosives in it.
Great-Kazoo
09-18-2024, 07:17
I heard the code was "OU812"
Not BACON1/2OFF ?
eddiememphis
09-18-2024, 08:44
Despite initial speculation that Israel had caused the pagers to blow by simply sending a signal that overheated the device's lithium batteries-the sort of thing that could be used to target any similar device-the explosive force of the detonations suggested something else was involved. Lithium batteries can burn intensely when damaged or overheated, but they don't explode.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/17/world/middleeast/israel-hezbollah-pagers-explosives.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/17/world/middleeast/israel-hezbollah-pagers-explosives.html)
American officials speaking anonymously told The New York Times that "explosive material, as little as one to two ounces, was implanted next to the battery in each pager," along with a switch that could be activated remotely.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-planted-explosives-hezbollahs-taiwan-made-pagers-say-sources-2024-09-18/
The pagers had been bought from Gold Apollo, a Taiwanese company, but had been manufactured in Hungary by a company called BAC Consulting, Reuters reports. The tampering that turned the devices into miniature bombs appears to have occurred at the manufacturing level, and BAC Consulting doesn't appear to be a run-of-the-mill tech firm, to say the least: According to Reuters, the company's "registered activities are wide ranging, from computer game publishing to IT consulting to crude oil extraction." That sure sounds like a front to me.
BushMasterBoy
09-18-2024, 09:28
And now walkie talkies exploding. Hand held radios like the ones used by police. I would not be surprised if some of these devices are in the US. Break out the bomb sniffing K9's.
how are you feeling about that wireless headset you wear at work?
BushMasterBoy
09-18-2024, 14:37
Imagine what a ATM could do? Cash me later!
https://i.postimg.cc/nrSyPPFh/IMG_2855.jpg (https://postimg.cc/hQxZJMQk)
The condemnation by Libs and terrorist of what a super job the Mossad pulled over on these jerks can be answered by a quote I heard on the radio today, "War is Hell, don't start one"
BushMasterBoy
09-19-2024, 00:46
what a coincidence.
industry press reports pentagon spending on electronic warfare has been given a significant boost.
While the CJCS is attending this...
https://www.aspendigital.org/event/aspen-cyber-summit-2024/#:~:text=Wednesday,%20September%2018,%202024.%209a m-5pm
Spook video. LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBDslCf9P6A&t=100s
More war. More dead kids. More money for Americas greatest All-Lies.
973759737697377
They’ve taken out the cell leadership. They’re now on to air strikes.
We do not benefit from this. More useless death.
The Iran faction is a sooner or later proposition.
It can either be dealt with 15 years ago, or everyone can bitch and moan and drag their feet, kicking the IED soccer ball down the road until thousands of unnecessary innocents are killed in the future.
Except the future is today.
And they aren't far off from giving Nukes to all their third world, 65 IQ cousin-marrying jihadi friends.
So lets wait another 15 years, surely if we don't kill any of them, this problem will magically go away, because it's not like they're JoeK over here and want to wipe Isreal off the map. It's the religion of peace after all, which is why they are just so awefully peaceful.
Put another way, if Mexico had been launching missles at cities in Texas for the last ten years, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be moaning about the ethics if a bunch of cartel members had their pagers explode.
It truly is 1:1. Just because we have two oceans of insulation to our east and our west doesn't mean we know what it is like to have entire countries of people around you that want to murder your entire family, literally miles from you, and launching explosives at you at an ongoing, regular basis. They do this only because you exist, and their peaceful religion is only peaceful if it's the only religion. And also the only sect, because they aren't even compatible with each other.
And if they were launching because we raped their grandma, stole grandpa’s ranch that had been in the family for 700 years, and pumped propaganda into their televisions for 45+ years?
Cus that’s the reality of the Nakba. Palestinian, Lebanese, etc., they ALL have a very real reason for their hatred of the modern ethnostate of “Israel”.
They’re not a bunch of innocents who are hated because they’re just innocent dindunuffinsteins. They fucking EARNED it.
The Iran faction is a sooner or later proposition.
It can either be dealt with 15 years ago, or everyone can bitch and moan and drag their feet, kicking the IED soccer ball down the road until thousands of unnecessary innocents are killed in the future.
Except the future is today.
And they aren't far off from giving Nukes to all their third world, 65 IQ cousin-marrying jihadi friends.
So lets wait another 15 years, surely if we don't kill any of them, this problem will magically go away, because it's not like they're JoeK over here and want to wipe Isreal off the map. It's the religion of peace after all, which is why they are just so awefully peaceful.
Escalating a war with Iran so we do not have to fight a war in 15 years is refrigerator IQ levels of dumb.
Lower than Haitian National average IQ level.
I want to believe you are not this retarded, sadly I once believed everything currently that you say that you do about Iran, Israel, Muslims, and Jews.
Israel has had nukes since the 1970s. Iran having nukes is definitely no more of a threat than that. If the CIA had not done the 1953 Coup Iran would not be where they are, and if the U.S. had not allowed 1948 to happen, there would have been little of the wars we have seen in that region of the world since then. We did nothing to prevent Israel from getting nukes, so now we have the situation we have.
There are dozens of ways to solve the Iran issue without a shooting war.
Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the centre of that. Its a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode and Jews will be resented because of our leading role. - Barbara Lerner Spectre
Vs.
Israel is not going to be the monolithic society they once were in the last century. Europeans and White Americans are going to be at the centre of that. Its a huge transformation for Israel to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode and Europeans and White Americans will be resented because of our leading role.
Maybe you can see it now.
Put another way, if Mexico had been launching missles at cities in Texas for the last ten years, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be moaning about the ethics if a bunch of cartel members had their pagers explode.
It truly is 1:1. Just because we have two oceans of insulation to our east and our west doesn't mean we know what it is like to have entire countries of people around you that want to murder your entire family, literally miles from you, and launching explosives at you at an ongoing, regular basis. They do this only because you exist, and their peaceful religion is only peaceful if it's the only religion. And also the only sect, because they aren't even compatible with each other.
If Texas invaded Mexico in 1948 and Nakbad all the Mexicans out of their towns crowded 95% of them into Tijuana and Juarez then treated them the way the Israeli people have since then, I would NOT be surprised in the slightest if Mexicans acted out the way the Arab population has. And if it happened to you and your family, you would be a member of Hamas, or Hezbollah etc.
BushMasterBoy
09-19-2024, 22:06
Since this is open source I will post it. It is fairly recent data. My days here are numbered,
https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/21-113_MASINT_Primer__2022.pdf
https://sgp.fas.org/crs/nuke/R40094.pdf
Word is they sent the codes that caused the explosions. 58008(BOOBS) or 71077345(SHELLOIL).
I heard the code was "OU812"
Not BACON1/2OFF ?
Everyone knows it was 8675309
If Texas invaded Mexico in 1948 and Nakbad all the Mexicans out of their towns crowded 95% of them into Tijuana and Juarez then treated them the way the Israeli people have since then, I would NOT be surprised in the slightest if Mexicans acted out the way the Arab population has. And if it happened to you and your family, you would be a member of Hamas, or Hezbollah etc.
Not just invaded Mexico. If people from Canada who once, maybe, had an affinity to a particular place because they by and large adopted a religion that was “Texan” and the original Texans had, over the last Millenia adopted a Mexican religion, and thus the Ottawa contingent decided they were owed Texas… Mexico… Louisiana… somehow financed their way into owning the powers that be into giving it to them…
There’s a reason Israel doesn’t allow genetic testing of their population. Cus it would reveal they have less of a claim than anyone in the region. They’re all just eastern Euro trash. They have no genetic connection to that land whatsoever as a whole. Some do. But those “some” are second class Sephardic types. The Polish ones and other types don’t like that. And let’s not even get started ont he Ethiopian ones who come from the days of Solomon. They’re wayyyyy too dark for the racist bergs and steins to accept the dark ones predate their own adoption of the Torah.
eddiememphis
09-21-2024, 07:50
https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/hezbollah-in-disarray-after-israeli-air-strike-kills-top-commanders/ar-AA1qWx6R
https://www.foxnews.com/world/israels-war-front-shifts-dramatically-north-against-iran-backed-hezbollah-terrorists
It looks like Israel has had enough of the nonsense and is ready to kick some ass.
By going after and destroying all the proxies, they may soon see if Iran is as tough as they claim to be.
Israel Defense Forces (IDF) re-deployed its elite and battle-tested 98th Division from the southern war theater in Gaza against Hamas to the north, in a possible prelude to what some say could be a ground invasion to root out Hezbollah terrorists in southern Lebanon.
Israel said Friday's strike on the southern suburbs of Lebanon's capital killed the head of Hezbollah's elite Radwan Force, Ibrahim Aqil, and several other commanders.
theGinsue
09-21-2024, 09:09
[Pop]
Sitting back and waiting for the inevitable "Israel is bad" comments now that Israel is turning it's attention more decisively towards Hezbollah in the North.
It seems to be okay by many when groups like Hamas murder hundreds of civilians, setting people on fire while still alive or dismembering babies. It's all fine when Hezbollah launches hundreds of rockets into Israeli civilian targets. It's fine when they launch attacks on Israeli children and their families at a soccer field or blow up a bus loaded with civilians. But, when Israel decides to say "enough" and take action against these aggressors, it's all "oh, look at the mean Jews attacking these poor peaceful Muslims".
Say what you want, but if Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and any other entity would cease their aggression against Israel, there would be no war from Israel.
ChadAmberg
09-21-2024, 17:03
What I found most interesting was that the US gummint is pissed because Israel didn't tell them anything about any of this. It was a all a secret and damn right they shouldn't have told because the Biden administration would get all panty wadded about it and tried to block the operation.
Aardvark
09-21-2024, 18:41
Bidens folks would have called Hezb/Hamass/Houtis and told them the details of all Israeli plans. Biden admin is full of traitors and anti-semites. Hell, they f-d America over. Do you think for an instant they won't sell out any other country or people? ...well..they'd suck Xi's sack, but sell out the rest.
[Pop]
Sitting back and waiting for the inevitable "Israel is bad" comments now that Israel is turning it's attention more decisively towards Hezbollah in the North.
It seems to be okay by many when groups like Hamas murder hundreds of civilians, setting people on fire while still alive or dismembering babies. It's all fine when Hezbollah launches hundreds of rockets into Israeli civilian targets. It's fine when they launch attacks on Israeli children and their families at a soccer field or blow up a bus loaded with civilians. But, when Israel decides to say "enough" and take action against these aggressors, it's all "oh, look at the mean Jews attacking these poor peaceful Muslims".
Say what you want, but if Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and any other entity would cease their aggression against Israel, there would be no war from Israel.
You are already too late.......... read starting at post #30.
Do you have any more popcorn?
I could use some too............... :)
What I found most interesting was that the US gummint is pissed because Israel didn't tell them anything about any of this. It was a all a secret and damn right they shouldn't have told because the Biden administration would get all panty wadded about it and tried to block the operation.
True that........... very astute.
BushMasterBoy
09-21-2024, 20:29
Yeah right...we didn't know! It is called plausible deniability. An intelligence community with a 100 billion budget and probably a trillion in assets. GWOT is still going on. It has just gotten much more sophisticated. They have computers now that consume more power than some major cities. Put in this perspective, Microsoft is going to revamp Three Mile Island nuclear power plant to power an AI computer!
https://www.npr.org/2024/09/20/nx-s1-5120581/three-mile-island-nuclear-power-plant-microsoft-ai
theGinsue
09-21-2024, 21:04
You are already too late.......... read starting at post #30.
Do you have any more popcorn?
I could use some too............... :)
Oh, I've been watching. My post was just in response to the latest round of Israeli self-protection. I'm expecting a new round of wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth.
[Pop]
Sitting back and waiting for the inevitable "Israel is bad" comments now that Israel is turning it's attention more decisively towards Hezbollah in the North.
It seems to be okay by many when groups like Hamas murder hundreds of civilians, setting people on fire while still alive or dismembering babies. It's all fine when Hezbollah launches hundreds of rockets into Israeli civilian targets. It's fine when they launch attacks on Israeli children and their families at a soccer field or blow up a bus loaded with civilians. But, when Israel decides to say "enough" and take action against these aggressors, it's all "oh, look at the mean Jews attacking these poor peaceful Muslims".
Say what you want, but if Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and any other entity would cease their aggression against Israel, there would be no war from Israel.
Well you won?t have to wait long. Israel and Jews are bad. So is the United States Christians. And Syrian Muslims. And Vietnamese Buddists.
The Jews should not have been allowed to displace and ethnically cleanse the Arabs from their homes in 1948.
The PLO and Arabs should not have committed the atrocities they have over the years in response.
The Irgun/Mossad should not have used terrorism to gain and then hold onto the power and territory they had/have.
The various Arab groups should not have responded in kind.
Both sides have intentionally target unarmed noncombatants. That is what happens in ALL ethnic and religious wars. It happens in all wars. It should not be excused.
Israel should not have killed 230+ Arabs prior to October 7 2023.
Hamas should NOT have done what they did on October 7 last year.
Israel should NOT have used the Hannibal option in response, which killed way more Jews than your preferred news sources are talking about.
The roughly 1,500 Jews killed do not justify the killing of roughly 50,000 Arabs.
If Hamas or Hezbollah did what Israel just managed to pull off, CNN/FOX/MSNBC/ABC/BBC/New York Times/Daily Wire and the rest of the Pro Zionist media would all be showing you nonstop footage of the dead Jewish kids killed by this random act of terror.
Instead, some of the Anti-Human Savages on this forum are gleefully cheering and egging on the Radio and Pager attacks. Not too different than when 100,000 + Jews watching live footage laugh and cheer over the sight of crushed Arab kids heads, or when IDF soldiers high five after shooting kids.
For the record, the decapitated Jewish babies from Oct. 7 were invented as a fundraising scheme by a Jewish group that has a track record of dishonesty.
Not different than the atrocity propaganda lies invented about Dead Belgium babies on German bayonets and Crucified Canadian soldiers in WW1, or the Human lamp shades and shrunken heads in WW2.
War is awful. There is enough evil, vile, disgusting, horrifying stuff happening in a war zone without needing to invent atrocities. Anytime someone does this it undermines their sides credibility.
I make no excuses for War crimes, atrocities or acts of terrorism committed from any side on any war. I have seen it, breathed it, lived and slept it. And others more than me. It is never something to cheer about. I regret and repent having ever done so. May God forgive me.
https://youtu.be/wVyu7NB7W6Y?si=gNmiSh4rrhzEWF1r
See how easy it is...
Well you won?t have to wait long. Israel and Jews are bad. So is the United States Christians. And Syrian Muslims. And Vietnamese Buddists.
The Jews should not have been allowed to displace and ethnically cleanse the Arabs from their homes in 1948.
The PLO and Arabs should not have committed the atrocities they have over the years in response.
The Irgun/Mossad should not have used terrorism to gain and then hold onto the power and territory they had/have.
The various Arab groups should not have responded in kind.
Both sides have intentionally target unarmed noncombatants. That is what happens in ALL ethnic and religious wars. It happens in all wars. It should not be excused.
Israel should not have killed 230+ Arabs prior to October 7 2023.
Hamas should NOT have done what they did on October 7 last year.
Israel should NOT have used the Hannibal option in response, which killed way more Jews than your preferred news sources are talking about.
The roughly 1,500 Jews killed do not justify the killing of roughly 50,000 Arabs.
If Hamas or Hezbollah did what Israel just managed to pull off, CNN/FOX/MSNBC/ABC/BBC/New York Times/Daily Wire and the rest of the Pro Zionist media would all be showing you nonstop footage of the dead Jewish kids killed by this random act of terror.
Instead, some of the Anti-Human Savages on this forum are gleefully cheering and egging on the Radio and Pager attacks. Not too different than when 100,000 + Jews watching live footage laugh and cheer over the sight of crushed Arab kids heads, or when IDF soldiers high five after shooting kids.
For the record, the decapitated Jewish babies from Oct. 7 were invented as a fundraising scheme by a Jewish group that has a track record of dishonesty.
Not different than the atrocity propaganda lies invented about Dead Belgium babies on German bayonets and Crucified Canadian soldiers in WW1, or the Human lamp shades and shrunken heads in WW2.
War is awful. There is enough evil, vile, disgusting, horrifying stuff happening in a war zone without needing to invent atrocities. Anytime someone does this it undermines their sides credibility.
I make no excuses for War crimes, atrocities or acts of terrorism committed from any side on any war. I have seen it, breathed it, lived and slept it. And others more than me. It is never something to cheer about. I regret and repent having ever done so. May God forgive me.
TL: DR...................
God is shaking his head............ saying to himself.............. "WTF is this guy talking about?"
We aren't here to be mindless apologetic victims of our fellow man.
He created a complex and thinking mammal, but he also told us there is evil in the world.
There are times when you can reason with evil or it knows it's place..............and there are times when you can't and you have two choices: You can be the victim or defend yourself.
God, and the Bible, make it clear that having no mercy in the fight against evil is a moral right...............
God isn't forgiving you....... he probably hopes you would develop some moral clarity and realize (EDIT) that you aren't responsible for others actions, they are.
PS: I haven't seen nor watched any atrocities committed by the Isrealis in response to the OCT 7 terrorist attacks by Hamas. None.
I would be more sympathic to Hamas if they had say, simply attacked Army bases or a jail and freed their fellow Terrorists, but they didn't.
You mentioned 1948....... since then the Arabs have attacked them three? times........ three wars of annilation. And each time they lost, and so they aren't a victim here.
PSS: The pager response to the Hezbollah terrorism was BRILLIANT. One of the best military actions I've seen in many years,
BushMasterBoy
09-22-2024, 09:25
The way I see it, for every jihadi terminated, is one less that will do me harm. One less jihadi is good for the USA. They came here and hijacked our civilian airliners. They attacked peaceful concert goers. The terrorists are getting the terror they deserve. I have no sympathy.
eddiememphis
09-22-2024, 14:22
I think they should just hug it out.
There comes a time
When we heed a certain call
When the world must come together as one
There are people dying
Oh, and it's time to lend a hand to life
The greatest gift of all
We are the world
We are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day, so let's start giving
There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
It's true we'll make a better day, just you and me
TL: DR...................
God is shaking his head............ saying to himself.............. "WTF is this guy talking about?"
We aren't here to be mindless apologetic victims of our fellow man.
He created a complex and thinking mammal, but he also told us there is evil in the world.
There are times when you can reason with evil or it knows it's place..............and there are times when you can't and you have two choices: You can be the victim or defend yourself.
God, and the Bible, make it clear that having no mercy in the fight against evil is a moral right...............
God isn't forgiving you....... he probably hopes you would develop some moral clarity and realize (EDIT) that you aren't responsible for others actions, they are.
PS: I haven't seen nor watched any atrocities committed by the Isrealis in response to the OCT 7 terrorist attacks by Hamas. None.
I would be more sympathic to Hamas if they had say, simply attacked Army bases or a jail and freed their fellow Terrorists, but they didn't.
You mentioned 1948....... since then the Arabs have attacked them three? times........ three wars of annilation. And each time they lost, and so they aren't a victim here.
PSS: The pager response to the Hezbollah terrorism was BRILLIANT. One of the best military actions I've seen in many years,
Killing 50,000 Arabs because 1,500 deaths of your own people, several which were killed by the Hannibal Directive, is not a good vs evil question. It?s a question of evil vs evil.
Just because you have not seen any atrocity footage does not mean they do not exist.
Israel started this war, backed and supported by the United States government, which has gradually become a captured Agency. By capturing from without and within the legal, financial, educational, news and information, medical and scientific, investigative, intelligence, military and law enforcement institutions and levers of power.
Understandably many Americans support Israel in this continued war.
I know and understand that the Jewish people as a general rule are Christendoms oldest avowed enemies, and they will never stop behaving the way they do as a group unless they convert. The exception to this proves the rule. I pray for them even though they use and despitefully abuse Christians, Muslims, other Religious and non-religious Peoples, and even fellow Jews the world over. This is not primarily a Physical battle, but rather a spiritual one. Trying to resolve it otherwise will only give us more and more of what we have already gotten for the past 2,000 years of recorded human History.
buffalobo
09-22-2024, 19:09
Joe_K stated - "Killing 50,000 Arabs because 1,500 deaths of your own people, several which were killed by the Hannibal Directive, is not a good vs evil question. It?s a question of evil vs evil.
Just because you have not seen any atrocity footage does not mean they do not exist.
Israel started this war,..."
Let's look at a comparison. In America, as a percentage, the 1500 murdered Israelis would be the equivalent of 40,000 murdered Americans.
You expected the Israeli govt to ignore the attack? Say shame on you, bad terrorists?
I would expect my govt to wipe the terrorists and their govt/ruling body/organization and any proxies right the fuck out and god help anybody who got in the way.
If you're unarmed, you are a victim.
I'm only aware of one society that today, denies women an education, treats them as property with dowrys and regulations requiring a man to be with them in public, murders people for being "different", and encourages violence upon those with different philisophical beliefs, all while regularly launching rockets and explosives at the civlian population of another culture, while having a history in terrorism of civilian populations.
Hint: It isn't Isreal.
You know why a lot of prisoners convert to Islam? It's the ideal religion for sociopathy.
I'm sorry, but I'm pragmatic. There will never be peace with those sects of Islam. There will never be peace with Hamas in existence, Hezbolla, or any other similar faction. There will never be peace with ISIS. Any branch of Islam that seeks to murder or convert all non-believers, should be proactively expunged from the fucking gene pool. I have better things to do than shed a tear over it.
eddiememphis
09-24-2024, 08:25
This is part I don't like...
https://apnews.com/article/israel-lebanon-violence-war-hezbollah-63a15fa390a94acf46ef886cc5fb88db
The U.S. is sending a small number of additional troops to the Middle East in response to a sharp spike in violence between Israel and Hezbollah forces in Lebanon that has raised the risk of a greater regional war, the Pentagon said Monday.
Maj. Gen. Pat Ryder, Pentagon press secretary, would not say how many more forces would be deployed or what they would be tasked to do. The U.S. now has about 40,000 troops in the region.
If they want to kill each other, have at it- just like the Russia/Ukraine nonsense.
When the US gets involved, that is when I have an issue.
This could be seen as an escalation by Iran, which would call it's big brothers (Russia & China) into the fight.
And that wouldn't be good for anyone.
BushMasterBoy
09-24-2024, 09:07
You have to provide security to the intelligence gathering organizations. There was a time that you could make a bomb from fissile materials, was only known to the US. It was closely guarded information.
Now with modern technology you can make a nuclear weapon that can fit in a backpack.
If Iran supplies a terror group with a nuclear weapon, it could escalate into global thermonuclear war.
And this one of the reasons you have to deploy military personnel and alphabet agencies. Isolationist policy will not be favorable to US interests.
Our first bomb was made from materials found in Africa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkolobwe
Joe_K stated - "Killing 50,000 Arabs because 1,500 deaths of your own people, several which were killed by the Hannibal Directive, is not a good vs evil question. It?s a question of evil vs evil.
Just because you have not seen any atrocity footage does not mean they do not exist.
Israel started this war,..."
Let's look at a comparison. In America, as a percentage, the 1500 murdered Israelis would be the equivalent of 40,000 murdered Americans.
You expected the Israeli govt to ignore the attack? Say shame on you, bad terrorists?
I would expect my govt to wipe the terrorists and their govt/ruling body/organization and any proxies right the fuck out and god help anybody who got in the way.
If you're unarmed, you are a victim.
If the government of the state of Israel wanted to they could have targeted the individuals responsible without killing 50,000 people.
Using the same math you used to equate 1,500 Israelis* to 40,000 Americans, the 50,000 Arabs killed is the equivalent of over 1,300,000 people.
*Many of whom were killed by the IDF using Attack Helicopters and Tanks to combat a complex military attack turned hostage rescue mission. As it turns out when you give AH-64 Apache and Merkava Tank crews free fire orders you end up killing lots of your own people in heavily built up urban areas. Who knew.
buffalobo
09-30-2024, 20:45
Joe_k stated - "*Many of whom were killed by the IDF using Attack Helicopters and Tanks to combat a complex military attack turned hostage rescue mission. As it turns out when you give AH-64 Apache and Merkava Tank crews free fire orders you end up killing lots of your own people in heavily built up urban areas. Who knew."
I was speaking of the Isreali citizens killed on Oct 7 of last year. I don't think many Isreali soldiers were killed by friendly fire on Oct 7. If you were referring to killed by friendly fire of Isreali soldiers since Oct 7, I don't question their tactics, it's their people and I would have done the same and in your eyes probably worse.
As for Arab terrorists/aggressors/sympathisers I don't think they can kill enough at any ratio of population. The Arabs have had a goal of erasing the Jews since before the inception of a Jewish state.
If you're unarmed, you are a victim.
eddiememphis
10-01-2024, 11:05
Iran Launches Missiles at Israel.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/01/politics/iran-missile-attack-israel/index.html
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-military-says-missiles-launched-iran-towards-israel-2024-10-01/
Looks like Iran may not be as reliable of a supplier to the Soviet Union's desire for conquest going forward. Russia loved the terror incursion on October 7th because it distracted the West.... now it has distracted Iran.
No more Shahed's for Putin.
This is about damn time, and I hope it ends up being a closer, although the loss of life is tragic the ongoing loss of life with the existance of Iran is far worse.
The only way to have a lasting peace in the middle east is without Iran. If you've studied the politics and issues in the area, most of the problems all originate there. There would even be peace between the Arab and Isreal worlds at large, if not for Iran.
battlemidget
10-01-2024, 15:41
https://youtu.be/y2kyXN4ZVQg?si=uk8Mvo8LdTkCrmIv
Aloha_Shooter
10-01-2024, 20:13
Unpopular opinion from what I can see on this thread but I'm all for Mossad and the IDF taking out Hezbollah and Hamas and any of the other Ayatollah minions who've been waging war on the US and Israel for the last 40 years. Obama sent pallets of cash to these cockroaches, Israel is giving them Raid. Yes, the IDF response to Oct 7 has had some collateral casualties but they do an excellent job in minimizing them -- they put more effort into avoiding collateral casualties than just about any other combatant force. The pager attack was brilliant and I just hope Ben Shapiro is right about Hamas securing most of those pagers near their junk so the survivors (which appeared to be most of the casualties) aren't going to be reproducing.
BushMasterBoy
10-01-2024, 21:01
97450
eddiememphis
10-03-2024, 15:08
Monday should be interesting.
One year anniversary of the Hamas massacre of 1,200 Israelis.
Is that the day Israel goes after Iran with great vengeance and furious anger?
Joe_k stated - "*Many of whom were killed by the IDF using Attack Helicopters and Tanks to combat a complex military attack turned hostage rescue mission. As it turns out when you give AH-64 Apache and Merkava Tank crews free fire orders you end up killing lots of your own people in heavily built up urban areas. Who knew."
I was speaking of the Isreali citizens killed on Oct 7 of last year. I don't think many Isreali soldiers were killed by friendly fire on Oct 7. If you were referring to killed by friendly fire of Isreali soldiers since Oct 7, I don't question their tactics, it's their people and I would have done the same and in your eyes probably worse.
As for Arab terrorists/aggressors/sympathisers I don't think they can kill enough at any ratio of population. The Arabs have had a goal of erasing the Jews since before the inception of a Jewish state.
If you're unarmed, you are a victim.
The IDF is to Hostage Rescue and tactics what the Keystone Cops are to Law Enforcement.
The Hannibal Directive is a response that creates a free fire zone, if it moves kill it.
Im one of those people that thinks the Arab peninsula belongs to the Arabs. Mexico belongs to the Mexicans. India to the Indians. Europe for the Europeans etc. Stateless people cannot successfully be granted statehood by eradicating the Native population then be offended when the owner gets upset.
If some guy showed up at your house tomorrow from Chile and told you that his ancestors owned the property that your house now stood on one thousand nine hundred and forty eight years ago, would you peacefully and happily pack up, and move to downtown Denver and live in a Militarily enforced open air prison?
HBARleatherneck
10-03-2024, 19:18
Hawaii belongs to the Hawaiians. America belongs to the natives. Everyone should go back where they came from. lol
buffalobo
10-03-2024, 19:27
The IDF is to Hostage Rescue and tactics what the Keystone Cops are to Law Enforcement.
The Hannibal Directive is a response that creates a free fire zone, if it moves kill it.
Im one of those people that thinks the Arab peninsula belongs to the Arabs. Mexico belongs to the Mexicans. India to the Indians. Europe for the Europeans etc. Stateless people cannot successfully be granted statehood by eradicating the Native population then be offended when the owner gets upset.
If some guy showed up at your house tomorrow from Chile and told you that his ancestors owned the property that house now stood on one thousand nine hundred and forty eight years ago, would you peacefully and happily pack up, and move to downtown Denver and live in a Militarily enforced open air prison?
You are one of those people who erroneously believe jews did not exist in Israel before 19th or 20th century. You choose to be ignorant of Jewish/Middle east history.
You also fail to mention/recognize that most Arabs would recognize Israel and it's history and right to exist if not for the Muslim radicals.
The part of your reply about some other "group" making some historical claim to what I or other Americans hold is strawman and intellectually lame.
If you're unarmed, you are a victim.
BushMasterBoy
10-03-2024, 19:28
I'm more concerned with the homeland and the effects overseas events will have on the USA. If you tell me there are no terror cells in the US, I will disagree.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1haDGEGkzU
HBARleatherneck
10-03-2024, 19:41
https://iris.org.il/images/israel-and-arab-world.gif
If Israel just gave up all of the land, jokes friends would be happy.
Aloha_Shooter
10-03-2024, 20:16
Im one of those people that thinks the Arab peninsula belongs to the Arabs. Mexico belongs to the Mexicans. India to the Indians. Europe for the Europeans etc. Stateless people cannot successfully be granted statehood by eradicating the Native population then be offended when the owner gets upset.
In that case you should be all for the Israelis being in Israel. Their existence and ownership of that land has been documented by the Romans during the time of Caesar and the Egyptians long (many centuries) before the Romans. The Trans=Jordanians who call themselves Palestinians are the stateless people who Leftists want to grant statehood by eliminating the actual Native population. The Jews were kicked out of their homeland by the Babylonians -- it's in the historical record for anyone that actually chooses to read.
theGinsue
10-03-2024, 22:56
The Jews just don't want to allow the poor Arabs a place to live. If only the Jews would let the Arabs have their rightful land back, there would be peace.
It's sad to see the ignorant comments like this here. I had always hoped we had more intelligent, learned folks here.
You can fit more than 200 nations of Israel into the land mass identified in Hbar's map of the Arab world. Yet, this tiny parcel of land is causing great angst for the Muslim world. Is it really about the land? No! Long before May, 1948 when Israel was re-formed on THEIR ancestral land, the Arab/Muslim world has been trying to eradicate Judaism. This isn't about land, it's about genocide. Until every Jew, then every Christian, and every other non-Muslim is wiped off of the face of the earth the followers of the demented pedophile narcissist Mohammad will not be happy. Then they'll turn on themselves. "I'm Sunni and you're Shiite, you must die".
I'll say this: HBar's map is incomplete. It fails to show Afghanistan, Pakistan (while not necessarily "Arab", Pakistan is more than 94% Muslim), Turkey, and many other nations that follow the Muslim religion and want Jews to be eradicated. The Arabs/Muslims control 1000x the land mass of Israel, yet people still want to believe it's about this tiny speck of land for the Arabs/Muslims.
So, for those of you who want to stay ignorant and continue to tell yourselves it's about "the ancestral land that the Jews stole from us" regardless of all of the historical proof that the rightful inhabitants are the descendants of the tribes of Judah, your comments show more than ignorance; they show obvious anti-Semitic bigotry. You are part of what is so wrong with this world.
*(In response to JoeK) "The Arabs" are not one people group, language, ethnicity, or culture. They aren't even one religion. Shia hate sunni about as much as they hate isrealis. Some groups of Sunni get along reasonably well enough with jews. All of them are, like every other people group the world over, invaders.
Which "Arabs" do you decide to give the land to? The two main sects will fight to the death and are very divergent.
As George Carlin put it, unless you're a native of the great rift zone, you're not native.
The vast majority of the casualties as of late have been people who have been launching explosives at civilian centers.
Rule #1: Dead people don't need land.
I'm also tired of fake morality that is as transparent as a Karen marching 100 feet in a BLM while posting on instagram.
95% of the people who bitch about the lives lost, don't actually give two shits about the lives lost. If they did, they would have been vocal about innumerous genocies and tragedies in that part of the world.
It's only the sliver of deaths that have "jew" anywhere in a sentence that they'll pretend to give a shit about. But really, they don't care about "those people", could care less if they fall over by scores tomorrow, they just really hate "those other people".
theGinsue
10-03-2024, 23:13
Unpopular opinion from what I can see on this thread but I'm all for Mossad and the IDF taking out Hezbollah and Hamas and any of the other Ayatollah minions who've been waging war on the US and Israel for the last 40 years. Obama sent pallets of cash to these cockroaches, Israel is giving them Raid. Yes, the IDF response to Oct 7 has had some collateral casualties but they do an excellent job in minimizing them -- they put more effort into avoiding collateral casualties than just about any other combatant force. The pager attack was brilliant and I just hope Ben Shapiro is right about Hamas securing most of those pagers near their junk so the survivors (which appeared to be most of the casualties) aren't going to be reproducing.
Maybe "unpopular", but I agree 100%!
Hawaii belongs to the Hawaiians. America belongs to the natives. Everyone should go back where they came from. lol
The Europeans who immigrated to America were not a stateless people. They did not come in and attempt to claim they were the original inhabitants.
They bought and traded for land rights with the Natives before things took a turn for the worse for all parties concerned. I will not defend Manifest Destiny, nor the way in which Westward Expansionism took place, or defend broken treaties.
Hawaii was a dirty deal. And we?d likely be in a better place without them as a territory or state.
BushMasterBoy
10-04-2024, 13:03
Might want to ramp up production of Patriot Missile Defense Systems. I can only see escalation of the conflict at this point. Link below shows images of Iranian missile impacts.
https://www.npr.org/2024/10/04/nx-s1-5140058/satellite-images-dozens-iranian-missiles-struck-near-israeli-air-base
If I call them Palestinians people will say there is no such thing as Palestine.
If I call them Muslims people will say what about the Palestinian Christians?
Or which Muslims? Sunni? Shia?
I I call them Arabs, people will say they are not all Arabs.
If I say that Israel should not have started this conflict, people will rant and rage about Oct 7, as if that event occurred in a vacuum and history began on that day.
If I say its wrong for Israel to kill civilians, people will assume I do not care about Israeli civilians killed by Hamas, or Hezbollah etc.
If I point out that Israel was holding over 1,000 Civilians as hostages prior to Oct 7th, people will make excuses for that.
If I point out incidents of documented Israeli atrocities such as rapes of prisoners held, shooting children intentionally, people will engage in what-about-ism while accusing me of the same.
If I point out God used the Romans to destroy the Temple, and drive out the people that lived in Judaea in fulfillment of scriptural prophecy because they rejected Christ, people will start to go in on their particular bent of pro-zionist theology, or write it all off as religious talk.
A Jew in 1948 trying to prove they had a legitimate claim to land in the British Mandate of Palestine had a more significant challenge than any random Black person in South Carolina today arguing they are owed reparations.
Americans will fight and die in wars for Israel and scream into the void of their undying love for a group of people and a foreign government that have nothing in common with them.
97455
Aloha_Shooter
10-04-2024, 21:53
The Europeans who immigrated to America were not a stateless people. They did not come in and attempt to claim they were the original inhabitants.
They bought and traded for land rights with the Natives before things took a turn for the worse for all parties concerned. I will not defend Manifest Destiny, nor the way in which Westward Expansionism took place, or defend broken treaties.
Hawaii was a dirty deal. And we?d likely be in a better place without them as a territory or state.
Can you be any more ignorant? Yes, the overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy was a dirty deal but it was going to happen eventually. The Russians, French, or Japanese were salivating and would have found a pretext to take over the Hawaiian islands if a American ex-pat businessmen and a rogue American ambassador hadn't beat them the punch.
The fact of the matter is that Hawaii was and still is a strategic location for projecting power in the Pacific. The Japanese may well have taken over the Pacific Rim if America hadn't had the islands as a strategic base. You can argue the Hawaiians would be better off if it wasn't a state or territory of the USA (and that is debatable) but you can't reasonably argue the USA would better better off without it.
Aloha_Shooter
10-04-2024, 21:55
https://youtu.be/6wrhzDBvhEc
Can you be any more ignorant? Yes, the overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy was a dirty deal but it was going to happen eventually. The Russians, French, or Japanese were salivating and would have found a pretext to take over the Hawaiian islands if a American ex-pat businessmen and a rogue American ambassador hadn't beat them the punch.
The fact of the matter is that Hawaii was and still is a strategic location for projecting power in the Pacific. The Japanese may well have taken over the Pacific Rim if America hadn't had the islands as a strategic base. You can argue the Hawaiians would be better off if it wasn't a state or territory of the USA (and that is debatable) but you can't reasonably argue the USA would better better off without it.
I am not ignorant of any of what you have posted, I simply vehemently disagree. I am not in favor of the United States projecting power anywhere except for within the confines of North America. You might consider me extremely pro-Monroe Doctrine and pro-George Washington in terms of influence on the world stage.
If another empire wanted Hawaii, America could have taken the principled stance of defending and aiding the Hawaiian monarchies right to self government. Or, simply stayed out of it. Aiding and abetting the Bayonet Constitution was not the moral choice.
Japan would have left the rest of the Pacific alone with the possible exceptions of targeting the Philippines and continuing to advance against China to extirpate Communism from Asia. If the US had stayed out of there way we would likely never have fought in WW2, Korea, Vietnam, we certainly would have had no legitimate reason to as Communism would have been destroyed in South East Asia and the rest of the Pacific, and perhaps the Japanese would have joined their European allies in the Crusade to stamp out Communism in Russia.
https://news.antiwar.com/2024/06/20/idf-report-found-multiple-cases-of-friendly-fire-deaths-on-oct-7/#gsc.tab=0
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/
https://news.antiwar.com/2024/10/03/american-healthcare-workers-who-volunteered-in-gaza-say-over-118000-have-been-killed/
https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/
Killing 5% + of a population does not seem like restraint. Or justifiable.
https://youtu.be/6wrhzDBvhEc
Sir:
That was a very interesting and relevant video!
Thanks for sharing!
https://news.antiwar.com/2024/06/20/idf-report-found-multiple-cases-of-friendly-fire-deaths-on-oct-7/#gsc.tab=0
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/
https://news.antiwar.com/2024/10/03/american-healthcare-workers-who-volunteered-in-gaza-say-over-118000-have-been-killed/
https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/
Killing 5% + of a population does not seem like restraint. Or justifiable.
Can you provide any links from credible news sources about the death toll in Gaza?
How about this story of a true hero?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/10/02/flip-flop-wearing-october-7-survivor-shoots-tel-aviv-gunmen/
buffalobo
10-05-2024, 11:35
"Initial investigations revealed that one of the attackers was armed with an M-16 rifle while the other carried a knife."
Wonder if the rifle was an Afganistan leave behind?
If you're unarmed, you are a victim.
BushMasterBoy
10-05-2024, 11:47
FBI warns of possible October 7 anniversary attacks in the US. Islam is a terrorist organization, it is not a religion.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-warns-possible-violence-u-213814599.html
Aloha_Shooter
10-06-2024, 10:35
I am not ignorant of any of what you have posted, I simply vehemently disagree. I am not in favor of the United States projecting power anywhere except for within the confines of North America. You might consider me extremely pro-Monroe Doctrine and pro-George Washington in terms of influence on the world stage.
If another empire wanted Hawaii, America could have taken the principled stance of defending and aiding the Hawaiian monarchies right to self government. Or, simply stayed out of it. Aiding and abetting the Bayonet Constitution was not the moral choice.
Japan would have left the rest of the Pacific alone with the possible exceptions of targeting the Philippines and continuing to advance against China to extirpate Communism from Asia. If the US had stayed out of there way we would likely never have fought in WW2, Korea, Vietnam, we certainly would have had no legitimate reason to as Communism would have been destroyed in South East Asia and the rest of the Pacific, and perhaps the Japanese would have joined their European allies in the Crusade to stamp out Communism in Russia.
Okay, you proved me wrong. You CAN be more ignorant. You completely ignore the history of the era. In the first place, there is no way the USA of 1897 was going to be able to fight (much less win) against France, Russia, or Japan of 1897. Do you understand that as late as 1914, the US Army was one of the smallest in the world? GREECE and the Philippines had larger standing armies than the US. In the second place, Japan would NOT have left the rest of the Pacific alone -- even without Hawaii in their grasp, the Japanese spread their tendrils through the Pacific in the 1920s. In the third place, even absent the provocation of Pearl Harbor, the US would have gotten involved in WWII -- the Lend-Lease Act was passed on March 11, 1941 -- nearly 9 months before Pearl Harbor.
You are doing a great job emulating AOC: vehemently disagreeing with facts, history, and reason. That seems to apply equally to Hawaiian history and Israeli history.
https://spartacus-educational.com/FWWarmies1914.htm
https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20170717/p2a/00m/0na/007000c
https://www.hawaiistar.com/russia-in-hawaii/
https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/ip/88117.htm
https://www.westernjournal.com/watch-ben-shapiro-systematically-schools-oxford-students-israeli-palestinian-debate/
I am not ignorant of any of what you have posted, I simply vehemently disagree. I am not in favor of the United States projecting power anywhere except for within the confines of North America. You might consider me extremely pro-Monroe Doctrine and pro-George Washington in terms of influence on the world stage.
If another empire wanted Hawaii, America could have taken the principled stance of defending and aiding the Hawaiian monarchies right to self government. Or, simply stayed out of it. Aiding and abetting the Bayonet Constitution was not the moral choice.
Japan would have left the rest of the Pacific alone with the possible exceptions of targeting the Philippines and continuing to advance against China to extirpate Communism from Asia. If the US had stayed out of there way we would likely never have fought in WW2, Korea, Vietnam, we certainly would have had no legitimate reason to as Communism would have been destroyed in South East Asia and the rest of the Pacific, and perhaps the Japanese would have joined their European allies in the Crusade to stamp out Communism in Russia.
You mean the Nazis. Japan would've joined the Nazis in stamping out Communism in Russia, killing all the pesky people you don't like along the way.
The same Nazis that ultimately would've invaded America and stamped out our form of government. What a better world it would've been, eh.? I apologize that we got involved and helped stopped all the murder & genocide.
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