Xcel "Smart Meter"?

[.455_Hunter]

So, I got a postcard from Xcel stating they want to replace my current remote-read standard meter with the new "Smart Meter"?

What are the implications of letting them compete the install?

What are the implications of telling them to fuck themselves?

[def90]

I don't think you have a choice. The new meter just allows them to read your usage over their network vs having to send a person out to read the meter.

[hollohas]

You can keep your old one, but you will have to pay more to keep your old meter to cover the cost of sending someone to your house to read it manually.

[bellavite1]

That's what I did.
I opted out.
I think it's just a few extra bucks.
Every time something is a "smart" idea, I have to wonder for whom...

[BushMasterBoy]

I got one. I'm so glad they don't come in my backyard. The less folks around my house the better. It is internet over the power lines. Uses a principle called the "skin effect", a high frequency will travel over the power lines on the outside of the conductor. I figure the alphabets monitor all the data anyways. Less shit I have to deal with, the better my life is.

[.455_Hunter]

From my understanding, existing meter is already remote read, just not "smart".

[def90]

From my understanding, existing meter is already remote read, just not "smart".

It's "remote read" as in they can probably read it from a truck on the street as they drive by if your house is on a regular street, it is not able to be read via their power line network. So they still need to send someone out to read it.

[eddiememphis]

https://www.xcelenergy.com/staticfiles/xe-responsive/OverviewMeterInfoSheet.pdf
https://co.my.xcelenergy.com/s/our-commitment/clean-energy-technology/agis-smart-meters

Smart meters will communicate energy use electronically through Xcel Energy?s wireless network. A smart meter is capable of two-way communication allowing Xcel Energy to send information to the meter as well as transmitting meter readings to Xcel Energy.

A secure electronic data service that provides data insights to third-party companies that you choose to work with, to help you improve efficiency and find savings by better understanding how your energy is being used.

New smart meter technology will create the opportunity for customers to have new pricing options like TOU rates or programs designed specifically for appliances or equipment that use significant amounts of electricity, such as space heaters and air conditioning units.

Unless you opt out, you will be on a tiered rate plan.

97778

They get to make a couple bucks selling your information.

They also claim the ability to monitor outages and reroute power more efficiently. They give you a better idea of how much energy you are using throughout the day.

I'm sure they will be able to limit your power usage as soon as that becomes fashionable.

[bellavite1]

Yup, if I remember correctly it already happened in some other state...

[hollohas]

Unless you opt out, you will be on a tiered rate plan.



Opting out of Time Of Use rates is the way to go if you want to use your AC, your electric stove or dry your clothes in the evening.



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241203/03bf72de6db81a679f6affc3b17c0c5b.jpg

[eddiememphis]

https://www.cpr.org/2024/12/03/xcel-energy-proposed-evening-time-of-use-rates-hike/

Xcel wants more money. They are looking to expand the "on peak" hours from 1pm to 9pm.

Click the link to file a comment

https://www.dora.state.co.us/pls/efi/EFI_COMMENT_GUI.Electric

Click Xcel-next

24AL-0377E - Filing to modify time-of-use ("TOU") tariffs for electric service, including TOU periods and associated TOU rates and charges

Leave a name and a comment. I have doubts about the effectiveness. Usually what Xcel wants, Xcel gets, but it is worth a shot and doesn't cost anything but a few minutes of time.

[buffalobo]

Until they jack the prices for opt out, opt out. Rates are still cheap compared to generating your own power.

If you're unarmed, you are a victim.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

They just came and switched mine, we didn’t approve the change? WTF?

[rfenster]

They switched out ours earlier this year without our approval.

No one home, locked gate, 'Beware of Dog' sign on gate, wasn't a problem for them to swap it out without notice or authorization.

[hollohas]

Every Xcel customer has been given notifications regarding this change. It's been happening for over a year. They don't need anyone's authorization or permission, they own the meter and have the legal right to access it whenever they want. Everyone has been given the chance to opt out of the smart meter change. Lack of action by the homeowner means it's getting changed.

[hollohas]

Until they jack the prices for opt out, opt out. Rates are still cheap compared to generating your own power.

If you're unarmed, you are a victim.^This

[BushMasterBoy]

Lot of my neighbors are adding solar to their roofs. I will never put solar on my roof. The less holes in the roof, the better. Some neighbors have large panels in their yard on metal frames. If I wasn't sick all the time, I would build a system so large that it would not matter if the power company cut me off. My propane tank has an extra leg for the RV.
I make sure I have wood for the stove. I use a swamp cooler in the summer, even though I have central air conditioning that I hardly use. I like the humidity. The local steel mill works on solar. My electric bill was $80 this month.

[Grant H.]

95+% of the solar that you see does nothing in a power outage. No batteries...

Most homes can actually be run on less than 10kw of panels, one pallet of panels anymore.

[bellavite1]

About that...
I have been thinking, as I suspect many of us, about protecting our house from power outages (running the furnace, space heaters, fridge...).
Is anyone on the forum in this field?
What could it cost?
I'm sure there are many companies out there, but I'd rather deal with a trusted forum member.

[def90]

Just need to break out the outlets that you want protected in to another breaker panel and then install an inverter and power transfer switch and a way to plug your generator in to it.

[bellavite1]

Just need to break out the outlets that you want protected in to another breaker panel and then install an inverter and power transfer switch and a way to plug your generator in to it.
I'll get right on it [ROFL1]
Do you want me to die?
Because THAT is how I die...
Yeah, I know my limits.
Anyone that actually does this for a living?
Also, I'd rather go solar than generator, and my house AND electrics are old , I need to consult with a trustworthy professional.

[Grant H.]

I don't do household solar for a living, but I do build/maintain solar installs for remote communication sites. Tower sites ranging from 15kw of solar down to individual 100w installs.

I have an offgrid solar setup at my house that powers my "critical" loads. Furnace, Fridge/freezers, some lights, some outlets, my server rack in the garage, all network hardware, etc. I only have 3.6KW of panels currently, but have space to add another 3+KW to the roof.

For some ballpark pricing:
Panels - $.25/w is relatively easy to find - Makes 10kw of panels $2500 (10kw is a pretty common pallet, free shipping usually on a complete pallet). The average household can probably be run entirely on 6-7kw, just depends on your electric bill.
Batteries - LiFePo4 is the way to go - Commercially made/sold: $3800/13kwh - DIY Battery Boxes and Grade A cells (easier to build than an AR): $2200/13kwh (maybe less) - 13kwh is 48VDC at 280ah capacity (pretty common in LiFePo4).
Wiring/Control/Inverters: The sky is the limit. Brand, capacity, etc will drive cost. Can be done for as little as $3500 for split phase 240VAC, but expect this to be more on the lines of $5000+.

If an average home in America wanted to be capable of turning off their main breaker and run their house as is?
8-10kw of panels
3x 48VDC 280AH batteries
Appropriate charge controllers, wiring, inverters
Total: $12,000 to $16,000 in parts

SHTF Maintain Important things with some creature comforts?
4-5KW of panels
1-2x 48VDC 280AH batteries
Charge controllers/inverters/etc
Total: $6,000-$8,000 in parts

Real thread discussion:

Another reason to opt out while it's financially viable, the smart meter can remotely turn off your power at the whim of your Electric Utility.

[def90]

I don't do household solar for a living, but I do build/maintain solar installs for remote communication sites. Tower sites ranging from 15kw of solar down to individual 100w installs.

I have an offgrid solar setup at my house that powers my "critical" loads. Furnace, Fridge/freezers, some lights, some outlets, my server rack in the garage, all network hardware, etc. I only have 3.6KW of panels currently, but have space to add another 3+KW to the roof.

For some ballpark pricing:
Panels - $.25/w is relatively easy to find - Makes 10kw of panels $2500 (10kw is a pretty common pallet, free shipping usually on a complete pallet). The average household can probably be run entirely on 6-7kw, just depends on your electric bill.
Batteries - LiFePo4 is the way to go - Commercially made/sold: $3800/13kwh - DIY Battery Boxes and Grade A cells (easier to build than an AR): $2200/13kwh (maybe less) - 13kwh is 48VDC at 280ah capacity (pretty common in LiFePo4).
Wiring/Control/Inverters: The sky is the limit. Brand, capacity, etc will drive cost. Can be done for as little as $3500 for split phase 240VAC, but expect this to be more on the lines of $5000+.

If an average home in America wanted to be capable of turning off their main breaker and run their house as is?
8-10kw of panels
3x 48VDC 280AH batteries
Appropriate charge controllers, wiring, inverters
Total: $12,000 to $16,000 in parts

SHTF Maintain Important things with some creature comforts?
4-5KW of panels
1-2x 48VDC 280AH batteries
Charge controllers/inverters/etc
Total: $6,000-$8,000 in parts

Real thread discussion:

Another reason to opt out while it's financially viable, the smart meter can remotely turn off your power at the whim of your Electric Utility.

The smart meter is not capable of turning off your power, it is only a meter that reads your usage. They would have to install additional relay units in order to turn off your power or any appliances.

[kidicarus13]

Saver's Switch. A method of torture during those 100+ degree days.
https://co.my.xcelenergy.com/s/residential/heating-cooling/savers-switch

[Grant H.]

The smart meter is not capable of turning off your power, it is only a meter that reads your usage. They would have to install additional relay units in order to turn off your power or any appliances.

The smart meters on my work facilities are absolutely capable of disconnecting power via remote command.

I haven't spent as much time on the residential side, so maybe they don't have this capability built in?

[def90]

The smart meters on my work facilities are absolutely capable of disconnecting power via remote command.

I haven't spent as much time on the residential side, so maybe they don't have this capability built in?

Smart meters simply replace the analog meter that of already there, there are no relays or mechanisms in them that can cut off your power.

[Grant H.]

Smart meters simply replace the analog meter that of already there, there are no relays or mechanisms in them that can cut off your power.

K.

[buffalobo]

Smart meters simply replace the analog meter that of already there, there are no relays or mechanisms in them that can cut off your power.Maybe early models(circa 2008-2010) could not but modern(gen 2, 3) Smart meters can.

Power companies are strictly regulated as to when and who they can disconnect whether by pulling analog meter or programming Smart meter.

If you're unarmed, you are a victim.

[FoxtArt]

Something I want to know is how hardened are these meters both physically and cyber.

Can a compromise at a utility individually shut off a ton of customers?

Can an EMP attack permanently take out a lot of meters because they install IC's in crtitical infrastructure applications that absolutely don't need them?

I imagine the answer to both of these questions is probably "yes", but I have not looked into it.

I'd much prefer to keep my meters from the 1970s, kthanks.

[eddiememphis]

Smart meters simply replace the analog meter that of already there, there are no relays or mechanisms in them that can cut off your power.

My residential meter is an Itron Gen5 Riva.

https://na.itron.com/o/commerce-media/accounts/-1/attachments/3804170

From the spec sheet-

Remote Disconnect/Reconnect
-Support integrated disconnect switch
-Perform remote disconnects/reconnects through the system